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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    The Johto seasons were handled very badly to the point where it felt like the writers weren't sure what to do with Shudo being gone. I wonder if there was some behind the scenes rule that they couldn't develop Ash's Johto Pokemon or Misty/Brock in a way while Shudo was still more or less around, depending on what he would do.
    I think that they just didn't know how to exactly handle making a whole journey last for years. Kanto lasted over a year, while the Orange Islands was less than a year, so this was a new experience. It isn't like the Kanto Pokemon, Misty and Brock got a lot of development in the previous arcs anyway, so they really didn't have much experience in making a long journey work out well or developing other characters. They rarely took the focus off of Ash in those previous arcs too. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try evolving Ash's Johto Pokemon, like Cyndaquil and Totodile, for marketing reasons.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Here's some of the Johto fillers I disliked:

    Roll On, Pokémon!
    Flower Power
    The Whistle Stop
    Foul Weather Friends
    A Farfetch'd Tale
    No Big Woop!
    Type Casting (only redeeming part of this is Brock licking Sudowoodo)
    Fossil Fools
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    Wings 'N' Things
    The Apple Corp! (
    Houndoom's Special Delivery
    The Light Fantastic
    Moving Pictures
    Spring Fever
    The Stolen Stones! (Arcanine? Really?)
    The Art Of Pokémon
    Right on, Rhydon!
    Got Miltank?
    Takin' It on the Chinchou
    Throwing in the Noctowl
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Xatu the Future
    Whichever Way the Wind Blows
    A Crowning Achievement


    These episodes are literally painful for me to sit through simply out of how purely boring they are.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    The Johto seasons were handled very badly to the point where it felt like the writers weren't sure what to do with Shudo being gone. I wonder if there was some behind the scenes rule that they couldn't develop Ash's Johto Pokemon or Misty/Brock in a way while Shudo was still more or less around, depending on what he would do.
    I would think otherwise. Drop of GS ball which was intended to be main plot in Johto involving all main protagonists in Celebi story happened before ex head writer stepped out from his position. So its not like he wasn't responsible for some of misplays there either.

    Likewise in 3rd Johto season series became much more plot oriented and focused on development of characters compared to rest of Jhto saga.

    Such as introduction of TR organization being split in two parts. First being about Lugia and dr. Namba while second about Red Gyarados bringing Lance of E4 for it and foreshadowing Ash seventh gym battle.
    Introduction of Delibird which was send by TR talent scout to follow Jessie, James and Meowth collecting money they owe to TR organization appearing in multiple episodes.
    Evolution of Poliwhirl using King Rock which was direct consequence of Sumo tournament match in which Snorlax competed in "Ring Masters".

    "Extreme Race" which foreshadowed battle between Ash and GAry in league winning him pokemon egg.
    Return of older pokemon like Ash Lapras.

    Sidekicks got more development and focus. More notably Misty who got more attention on herself and story. Such as Whirl Islands and Whirl Cup focusing on her goal. Several episodes dealt with her background like "Some like It Hot" revealing why she likes water types, "Just Add Water" bringing up her sisters, "Espeon Included" where she formed strong friendship ad rivalry with Sakura giving us flashbacks about her performance in Whirl Cup treating story more cohesive.
    Along with playing role in many episodes on daily basis in Brock, Ash or other COTD episodes like Tammy or Marcellus gradually becoming more mature and responsible which came to expression most when despite wanting to stay she felt it was her duty to save gym.

    But Brock as well playing valuable role in several episodes like "Crowning Achievement", "Entei at your Own Risk", "Just waiting on a Friend" etc helping to resolve clues and practice his knowledge as breeder.
    evolution of Poliwhirl using King Rock which was direct consequence of Sumo tournament match in which Snorlax competed in "Ring Masters" etc.

    Group pokemon team experienced more notable changes in form of Ash getting Phanphy, Misty catching Corsola, Poliwhirl and Pineco evolving.
    As well whole saga being filled with multiple arcs which carries story on their own being connected with protagonist story. Whether its Larvitar, mini side quest involving Clair, dragon temple and infuriated Dragonite just to wrap up things through spectacular league and conclusion to Ash rivalry with his main adversary Gary at that time.

    People can say what they want but Master Quest had several storyline dealing with villains or main characters which had sense of following giving them development.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Here's some of the Johto fillers I disliked:

    Roll On, Pokémon!
    Flower Power
    The Whistle Stop
    Foul Weather Friends
    A Farfetch'd Tale
    No Big Woop!
    Type Casting (only redeeming part of this is Brock licking Sudowoodo)
    Fossil Fools
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    Wings 'N' Things
    The Apple Corp! (
    Houndoom's Special Delivery
    The Light Fantastic
    Moving Pictures
    Spring Fever
    The Stolen Stones! (Arcanine? Really?)
    The Art Of Pokémon
    Right on, Rhydon!
    Got Miltank?
    Takin' It on the Chinchou
    Throwing in the Noctowl
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Xatu the Future
    Whichever Way the Wind Blows
    A Crowning Achievement


    These episodes are literally painful for me to sit through simply out of how purely boring they are.
    Good number of this episodes i actually enjoyed. For instance i liked "Roll on Pokemon" and Ash or Brock willingness to catch Donphan being enjoyable to watch battle between Donphan and HEracross.
    "Type Casting" which had several amusing moments with Brock wanting to win over Marie heart and help them catch Sudowoodo.
    "No Big Woop" containing lot of humor and fun interactions when Misty failed at playing Tambourine or tried to get Wooper across the bridge just to be mischief making it collapse, or with Brock failing at babysitter them.

    Or "Tyroque full of trouble"being unique to see for a change human challenging wild pokemon battling him with his bare hands. I can hardly recall such thing happening in this show, if ever.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Here's some of the Johto fillers I disliked:

    Roll On, Pokémon!
    Flower Power
    The Whistle Stop
    Foul Weather Friends
    A Farfetch'd Tale
    No Big Woop!
    Type Casting (only redeeming part of this is Brock licking Sudowoodo)
    Fossil Fools
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    Wings 'N' Things
    The Apple Corp! (
    Houndoom's Special Delivery
    The Light Fantastic
    Moving Pictures
    Spring Fever
    The Stolen Stones! (Arcanine? Really?)
    The Art Of Pokémon
    Right on, Rhydon!
    Got Miltank?
    Takin' It on the Chinchou
    Throwing in the Noctowl
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Xatu the Future
    Whichever Way the Wind Blows
    A Crowning Achievement


    These episodes are literally painful for me to sit through simply out of how purely boring they are.
    I could say that about so many DP episodes that technically, should have been exciting.

    I think Johto was flawed in the way that every saga has been and probably will be in some ways. It was longer than it needed to be. Yes, painfully long to an extent. Nothing much happened given the time span, it had a lot of filler episodes. That is the only criticism I ever hear. I felt like the whole group got some kind of developement and the Pokemon were a delight for the most part. The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of interesting/fun gym leaders. When there's not much going on, a Gym match is the highlight of every 15 episodes or so, they just didn't deliver for me.

    On the whole, I liked Johto a lot and i'd definitely rewatch it all (fillers included) again, someday.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    I could say that about so many DP episodes that technically, should have been exciting.

    I think Johto was flawed in the way that every saga has been and probably will be in some ways. It was longer than it needed to be. Yes, painfully long to an extent. Nothing much happened given the time span, it had a lot of filler episodes. That is the only criticism I ever hear. I felt like the whole group got some kind of developement and the Pokemon were a delight for the most part. The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of interesting/fun gym leaders. When there's not much going on, a Gym match is the highlight of every 15 episodes or so, they just didn't deliver for me.

    On the whole, I liked Johto a lot and i'd definitely rewatch it all (fillers included) again, someday.
    That's usually the main criticism about Johto that people talk about. While I enjoy Johto, there are more issues with it beyond the amount of filler episodes. Ash's Johto team was underdeveloped, Misty and Brock didn't really get much attention, the pacing was weak and Ash relying on his older Pokemon from the eighth Gym badge through the Johto League wasn't a good decision on how to handle his Johto team, even though I did like most of Charizard's battles. I enjoyed Johto and if I could afford it, I'd import the DVD box sets for the first two seasons to watch the whole arc again since I only have some of Johto League Champions and the Master Quest box sets, but it did have more flaws than just having a lot of filler episodes.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    I could say that about so many DP episodes that technically, should have been exciting.

    I think Johto was flawed in the way that every saga has been and probably will be in some ways. It was longer than it needed to be. Yes, painfully long to an extent. Nothing much happened given the time span, it had a lot of filler episodes. That is the only criticism I ever hear. I felt like the whole group got some kind of developement and the Pokemon were a delight for the most part. The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of interesting/fun gym leaders. When there's not much going on, a Gym match is the highlight of every 15 episodes or so, they just didn't deliver for me.

    On the whole, I liked Johto a lot and i'd definitely rewatch it all (fillers included) again, someday.
    Well to be fair I didn't like a lot of the DP training episodes either, but that's for another topic.

    Johto might seem more watchable also only because of the 4kids voice actors. The familiar old acting makes the eps feel slightly better, even if there's nothing interesting about them. Still 4kids couldn't save a lot of these episodes, even if they gave Team Rocket some funny lines in some.

    I always thought there was a subtle meaning behind 4kids dub title for the first Hoenn episode, "Get the Show on the Road." Its almost as if 4kids knew that Johto was derailed (heck, the Claire 8th Gym is named "Better Eight than Never" as a pun on "Better Late than Never" as in "Thank god he got 8 badges this arc is finally over!"), while Hoenn starts with "Get the Show on the Road." as in "Get it back on track."

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Well to be fair I didn't like a lot of the DP training episodes either, but that's for another topic.

    Johto might seem more watchable also only because of the 4kids voice actors. The familiar old acting makes the eps feel slightly better, even if there's nothing interesting about them. Still 4kids couldn't save a lot of these episodes, even if they gave Team Rocket some funny lines in some.

    I always thought there was a subtle meaning behind 4kids dub title for the first Hoenn episode, "Get the Show on the Road." Its almost as if 4kids knew that Johto was derailed (heck, the Claire 8th Gym is named "Better Eight than Never" as a pun on "Better Late than Never" as in "Thank god he got 8 badges this arc is finally over!"), while Hoenn starts with "Get the Show on the Road." as in "Get it back on track."
    I don't think that Johto is more watchable because of the 4Kids cast. I do like the 4Kids cast, but I genuinely think that most of the filler episodes aren't that bad. There are plenty of bad ones, but most of them ranged from mediocre to good and the filler episodes that I enjoyed outnumbers the ones I really dislike. I can see where you'd get that connection with the Gym battle against Claire, although I wouldn't look that much into a pun title when 4Kids was really into making puns in general, but I think that's a bit of a stretch with the first AG title when getting the show on the road is already a pun and isn't really related to getting something back on track necessarily at least.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    [
    I could say that about so many DP episodes that technically, should have been exciting.

    I think Johto was flawed in the way that every saga has been and probably will be in some ways. It was longer than it needed to be. Yes, painfully long to an extent. Nothing much happened given the time span, it had a lot of filler episodes. That is the only criticism I ever hear. I felt like the whole group got some kind of developement and the Pokemon were a delight for the most part. The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of interesting/fun gym leaders. When there's not much going on, a Gym match is the highlight of every 15 episodes or so, they just didn't deliver for me.

    On the whole, I liked Johto a lot and i'd definitely rewatch it all (fillers included) again, someday.
    I always find weird how m,any people seem to forget that Ash traveling companions actually received more screen time and development in Johto compared to Kanto.
    Brock during his Johto travels definitely improved as breeder learning about new ways to prepare poke food, medicines, how to heal pokemon, consulted with other breeders and had several episodes using his knowledge in practice. Such as applying his attainment in taking care of pokemon like Stantler understanding how its best for him to go with his herd, Sudowoodo who run away from research lab, trying to deal with mischief Wooper , taking notes from experts at preparing pokemon medicines like Old man with Schukle and many other memorable moments.

    Same applies to Misty who received some really good growth there becoming more mature over time growing to appreciate friendship with Ash and Brock finding them "new family". You could tell she wasn't anymore that impulsive girl just caring about bike and explode at everything like she used to in early Kanto days becoming more tolerant and independent playfully joking with Ash, caring for Brock and his safety and being heartbroken when having to leave them in "Gotta Catch Ya Later".
    She also learn to appreciate and bond on deeper level with water types like Marill , Poliwhirl who she helped about confidence issues or Psyduck were something to go by and improved skills as water trainer being recognized by several trainers with her achievements in form of top 8 at Whirl Cup, winning Seaking contest, Alto Mare Race or click on closer level with other characters like Sakura who shared same issues with over protective older siblings serving as testament to development she went through.

    Admittedly it wasn't enough and i wish writers gave to other characters beside Ash more attention, but i can still say there was more to like than dislike about Brock and Misty there.

    And personally i actually find original trio in Johto still had overall more engaging and fun dynamic than most other casts had(although i liked AG and BW set up too).
    Ash was still naive but also more "smart"with other two keeping him in check.Misty showed plenty of personality traits interacting great with several characters being still stubborn and hotheaded,but also more serene and playful with passionate love toward several things(like fishing,water types,battling etc)reflecting her aims and what she thrives for.

    While Brock was keeping everything on hold from falling apart being source of wisdom and knowledge along with showing lot of care for his friends keeping things on hold, while being flirt having plenty of his "excessive moments".There was lot of cleverly designed humor, drama and spontaneous interactions going on between them both in Kanto and Johto capturing emotions in unforced, genuine way.

    Granted im aware of its flaws having too many non plot related episodes which didn't moved things forward, Misty and Brock didn't received enough focus and development, Ash pokemon team failed to be used to full potential and drop of plots like GS ball which supposed to move story and characters forward initially didn't helped either.
    Writers simply at that time still weren't sure in what direction they want to take show and they were inexperienced when writing for long sagas which needed to be stretched out for 3 years or so until new games come out.Johto was their first one/testing ground and when main vector /purpose behind Ash and co going in Johto was dropped(Gs ball)i imagine they experienced blockade finding themselves basically in front of wall taking some time to pick things up shifting to higher gear with Master Quest and onwards with series becoming more plot based.

    However looking back i can say there was more to like than dislike about this saga with many episodes containing lot of characterization, lighthearted humor and flamboyant dynamic. And series in general felt like sequel from Kanto and story established before cintaining lot of continuity and references to past,along with building up on friendship between Ash and his companions maturing as group with departing episode emphasizing on strong bond which existed between them the most.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    I could say that about so many DP episodes that technically, should have been exciting.

    I think Johto was flawed in the way that every saga has been and probably will be in some ways. It was longer than it needed to be. Yes, painfully long to an extent. Nothing much happened given the time span, it had a lot of filler episodes. That is the only criticism I ever hear. I felt like the whole group got some kind of developement and the Pokemon were a delight for the most part. The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of interesting/fun gym leaders. When there's not much going on, a Gym match is the highlight of every 15 episodes or so, they just didn't deliver for me.

    On the whole, I liked Johto a lot and i'd definitely rewatch it all (fillers included) again, someday.
    Well to be fair I didn't like a lot of the DP training episodes either, but that's for another topic.

    Johto might seem more watchable also only because of the 4kids voice actors. The familiar old acting makes the eps feel slightly better, even if there's nothing interesting about them. Still 4kids couldn't save a lot of these episodes, even if they gave Team Rocket some funny lines in some.

    I always thought there was a subtle meaning behind 4kids dub title for the first Hoenn episode, "Get the Show on the Road." Its almost as if 4kids knew that Johto was derailed (heck, the Claire 8th Gym is named "Better Eight than Never" as a pun on "Better Late than Never" as in "Thank god he got 8 badges this arc is finally over!"), while Hoenn starts with "Get the Show on the Road." as in "Get it back on track."
    Well, I do think the 4Kids cast certainly made Johto more enjoyable than it could've been, I don't think all of the fillers were as bad as some of the ones you listed. I admit some of them are pretty -_-, but others are :D for me as well. I personally think some of the episodes in Johto are great, even some of the fillers. XD. rofl.
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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Here's some of the Johto fillers I disliked:

    Roll On, Pokémon!
    Flower Power
    The Whistle Stop
    Foul Weather Friends
    A Farfetch'd Tale
    No Big Woop!
    Type Casting (only redeeming part of this is Brock licking Sudowoodo)
    Fossil Fools
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    Wings 'N' Things
    The Apple Corp! (
    Houndoom's Special Delivery
    The Light Fantastic
    Moving Pictures
    Spring Fever
    The Stolen Stones! (Arcanine? Really?)
    The Art Of Pokémon
    Right on, Rhydon!
    Got Miltank?
    Takin' It on the Chinchou
    Throwing in the Noctowl
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Xatu the Future
    Whichever Way the Wind Blows
    A Crowning Achievement


    These episodes are literally painful for me to sit through simply out of how purely boring they are.
    I actually liked the Johto pokemon plot driven ones. The Kanto pokemon and the pure the team rocket episodes were just a waist of time. All they needed to do was make actual story plots that didn't suck along with Misty and Brock or even Ash doing something useful, would have been a good way to advertise and to make them all likeable in Johto.

    Well to be fair I didn't like a lot of the DP training episodes either, but that's for another topic.
    Atleast it's better than in Johto were Ash and the others barely did any training at all.
    Last edited by Caseydia; 19th April 2013 at 09:46 PM.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Johto flawed? Heck no! I personally think the Johto series is perfect! :D
    It's my favorite region of Pokemon in the games. And the anime is no exception to that.
    I can say with absolute certainty that I love every single episode of Johto. :)
    Including the filler episodes, which receive so much unnecessary hate from fans (in my opinion).
    That's right. I can enjoy filler episodes just fine, even the ones that most people would find boring. Of course, this might be because I'm such a big fan of the 4Kids dub in general, combined with the fact that I love the Johto region and its Pokemon. But anyway, all I'm saying is that, I enjoy the Johto series THE MOST (out of every series of Pokemon). XD

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    The only good part of Johto (as in, at least average) was Master Quest.

    Johto Journies had some decent episodes, but still some really bad fillers (the ones about Hoppip, Bellossom, Wooper, etc. come to mind), and Johto League Champions was literally filler hell. Although I must admit the only reason Johto Journies didn't bother me much is because Charizard and Squirtle were still there at the beginning.

    Had Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard all be dropped after Orange Islands (like they do now) I probably wouldn't care for Johto Journies at all.

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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    The only good part of Johto (as in, at least average) was Master Quest.

    Johto Journies had some decent episodes, but still some really bad fillers (the ones about Hoppip, Bellossom, Wooper, etc. come to mind), and Johto League Champions was literally filler hell. Although I must admit the only reason Johto Journies didn't bother me much is because Charizard and Squirtle were still there at the beginning.

    Had Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard all be dropped after Orange Islands (like they do now) I probably wouldn't care for Johto Journies at all.
    I actually kind of liked the Hoppip filler episode, but I didn't care much for the Bellossom and Wooper fillers either. I've watched most of Johto League Champions with the few DVDs I have and it really wasn't that bad. There were bad filler episodes, but there were plenty that ranged from decent to great.

    I don't see how Squirlte being around at the beginning of Johto really helped anything. Aside from its departure episode, it didn't really do much of anything besides helping to fight Team Rocket. At least Charizard helped in Ash's first Johto Gym battle and had a better departure episode, in my opinion anyway. I still think it would have been much better had they did drop the Kanto starters after the Orange Islands. Charizard was the only one of the three starters that actually did anything. Both Squirtle and especially Bulbasaur were just taking up space on Ash's team without doing much of anything. Bulbasaur did get some focus in filler episodes, but that time could have been better spent on the Johto Pokemon. Besides that, if they did start off with Ash dropping off his Kanto starters, Johto Journeys would probably be significantly different. Ash would have captured Cyndaquil and Totodile earlier, which could have given them more attention and development instead of relying on his Kanto starters.
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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    I'll say for now (and maybe elaborate on it later), for me, Johto's flaws were that it was too long, there were too many okay/decent filler and non-filler episodes, Ash's Johto Pokemon weren't that interesting, and despite the uninteresting episodes that did happen, the GS Ball resolution didn't happen, despite the build-up. I'm fine with them leaving the ball with Kurt but I thought more would come from that later.

    Things I also didn't think help, dub-wise, were that new Johto episodes did not air as fast of a rate as the Kanto league saga did (not saying they should have, though). I didn't watch Kanto when it premiered episodes, but I did watch more and more of them at a faster pace than one episode a week, I'm pretty sure, before catching up to the weekly schedule of the Johto saga.

    I also think that 4Kids should've kept more/all of the Japanese background music, since I think that would've done a better job making the mood of Johto interesting. (Not that music should be the only thing to make the mood interesting.)

    And if you count "Hoenn Alone" as part of the Johto saga (well, not only has Ash left Johto by this point, he's left Kanto too- to go to Hoenn), I'm... not a fan of them ending the original series with a transitional episode to the next series, especially with a cliffhanger to the next series. I am biased in the sense that I know that several series later, Ash's storyline still isn't done (meaning a closure point in places like Johto would've helped, imo), but at the same time... we had a really long, not greatly interesting (imo) Johto saga that's going to end with (or end right before an episode with) a cliffhanger that'll be resolved in the next long series?

    I like how Johto revolved Ash and Gary's rivalry, something established at the beginning of the original series. I also like how, after this series, Ash got a new set of main clothes. Johto was ending with the original trio splitting up, despite them being together for over 200 episodes (not all in a row). Plenty of closure-related things. I would've preferred that from Kanto through Johto, if you did watch the 280 or so episodes, most big things from that whole 280-ish-episode series would be resolved before Ash continued his journey into the next series. (In other words, that the original series would stand alone or you could keep going smoothly. Same with AG and etc.) "Hoenn Alone" doesn't make that happen.

    Oh, on a different note, while I do like Misty's return in Hoenn, a part of me feels that maybe that whole Togepi/Togetic storyline should've been done in Johto. (Another thing from the original series being resolved. From Ash first getting the egg to Togetic being a guardian for the Togepi and all that. Things being established in Kanto having closure in Johto.)

    I've been under the assumption that part of the reason the Pokemon fad ended was because Johto didn't stay entertaining enough for most people. Maybe people finished beating Red and everything in Gold and Silver, got tired of waiting for Ash, and then got tired of playing Pokemon in the process. I do think that if Johto helped kill the fad, that's a Johto flaw too.
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    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    The only good part of Johto (as in, at least average) was Master Quest.

    Johto Journies had some decent episodes, but still some really bad fillers (the ones about Hoppip, Bellossom, Wooper, etc. come to mind), and Johto League Champions was literally filler hell. Although I must admit the only reason Johto Journies didn't bother me much is because Charizard and Squirtle were still there at the beginning.

    Had Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard all be dropped after Orange Islands (like they do now) I probably wouldn't care for Johto Journies at all.
    Actually, I would have loved it more if Charizard, Bulbasaur and Squirtle was left back at professor oaks so that the Johto pokemon would have had more battle time on screen instead of being left in certain places with certain people. That to me would have been better.

    And for one note, the Bellossom episode was needed to debute the new pokemon for that region. So was the Hoppip and the Wooper one as well. What they needed to get rid of some of those kanto pokemon based ones like the Pidgey flying to the moon, the stupid surfing Rhydon, the Marril episode was of no real use, so that could have gone; Tunnel Vision was stupid, The zubat episode in the castle and not to mention the Arcanine episode didn't have to happen either. not only didn't Ash get a fire stone on the end but it ended up being a bunch of pitfalls and chasing after Team Rocket on unicycles. Besides, we've seen Arcanine lots of times before that.

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