To what degree was Johto flawed? - Page 12

Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 219
Like Tree114Likes

Thread: To what degree was Johto flawed?

  1. #166
    Bonded Forever Misty Calls Masquerain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Cerulean Gym, missing Ash and Brock
    Posts
    390
    Blog Entries
    24

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Speaking of Sinnoh, Phanpy was caught late? So was Gible.
    Totodile and Cyndaquil didn't evolve? Neither did Buizel.

  2. #167
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,156
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty Calls Masquerain View Post
    Speaking of Sinnoh, Phanpy was caught late? So was Gible.
    Totodile and Cyndaquil didn't evolve? Neither did Buizel.
    Exactly. We can do this same thing for all the regions. I don't get why everyone continues to single Johto out.

  3. #168
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Somewhere dreaming forever
    Posts
    4,213

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    Unlike many of you, I had no problem with Ash's supposedly "underdeveloped" Johto team.

    Hoenn and Sinnoh are not the holy grail of end-all-be-all, guys. That being said, I'd still rather Hoenn than Sinnoh (and Unova too), but besides the point.

    His Chikorita evolved into a Bayleef later on, and I feel it held its own pretty well in its battles.

    His Totodile took out a Kingdra. That's one tough Pokémon to me.

    His Cyndaquil was the second weakest link to me, yet it was still able to take out a Skarmory at one point.
    Bayleef was pretty decent and Cyndaquil was used pretty often in Gym battles, so aside from evolving, they were okay. Totodile really didn't battle much. It defeated a Kindra, but it won more due to luck than its strength and I only remember it winning two other battles. It never won a Gym battle either.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN
    His Noctowl was EXCELLENT, IMO. Served him very well in his gym battles.
    Noctowl was used in only two Gym battles and it was only good in the battle against Morty. The match against Clair showed that even with its Confusion attack, it still couldn't put much of a dent in Kingdra. I liked its personality and it stood out more than some Ash's other Flying types, but it definitely could have been used more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN
    Now, his Phanpy was a baby Pokémon, so of course it would be underdeveloped at the time. It was still quite tough for being a baby Pokémon as well.

    I can only see 2/6 of the members of his Johto team arguably being underdeveloped...the other 4/6 were more than acceptable, IMO.

    Really, guys? You want me to discuss to what degree Sinnoh was flawed? I could go on all day there. :P
    Phaphy could have done more if it was introduced earlier. Bayleef and Cyndaquil were the only Johto Pokemon that were handled decently in my opinion. Totodile, Noctowl and Phanpy needed more battles to develop and Ash needed to drop Bulbasaur a lot sooner than the actually did. I realize that this is a comparison with Johto and Sinnoh, but please try to remain on topic since this is about about what flawed Johto was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty Calls Masquerain View Post
    Speaking of Sinnoh, Phanpy was caught late? So was Gible.
    Totodile and Cyndaquil didn't evolve? Neither did Buizel.
    There's a significant difference with Gible and Phanpy. Despite being introduced late, Gible actually had pretty decent screentime with its training with Draco Meteor and had a bit more personality. Phanpy didn't really do much of anything after it was caught. As for Buizel, even though it didn't evolve, it was still strong and had a good amount of screentime, similar to Cyndaquil, even though I still would have preferred for it to evolve during Johto. Totodile, on the other hand, really didn't have nearly as much screentime as it should have had.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    Exactly. We can do this same thing for all the regions. I don't get why everyone continues to single Johto out.
    Except that those cases are clearly different and I already tried to explain why there's a thread about Johto's flaws, which apparently was useless, but I'll try in a different way. The general fanbase just focuses more on Johto's flaws than what happens in other series most likely due to a combination of how they've had over a decade to focus on Johto's problems and how the other sagas generally have offered some improvements even if they contain similarities to Johto's flaws. I like Johto and I don't think that it's nearly as bad as the general fanbase makes it out to be, but it definitely has a lot of flaws.
    HumanDawn and Duque like this.

  4. #169
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,156
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post

    Except that those cases are clearly different and I already tried to explain why there's a thread about Johto's flaws, which apparently was useless, but I'll try in a different way. The general fanbase just focuses more on Johto's flaws than what happens in other series most likely due to a combination of how they've had over a decade to focus on Johto's problems and how the other sagas generally have offered some improvements even if they contain similarities to Johto's flaws. I like Johto and I don't think that it's nearly as bad as the general fanbase makes it out to be, but it definitely has a lot of flaws.
    I'm not denying that Johto had a lot of flaws, but I've found every saga has been in the same boat. I think everyone exaggerates how supposedly "horrible" it was, though.

  5. #170
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Somewhere dreaming forever
    Posts
    4,213

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    I'm not denying that Johto had a lot of flaws, but I've found every saga has been in the same boat. I think everyone exaggerates how supposedly "horrible" it was, though.
    There hasn't been any saga with no flaw since that would be rather difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish. I agree that the flaws in Johto, particularly with how bad the fillers are, have been exaggerated, but I do think it is one of the most flawed arcs. It isn't surprising since they were still working out issues from the first two sagas, as well as new ones introduced in Johto, and it's still enjoyable, but most of the sagas afterwards are better than Johto in my opinion.

  6. #171
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,156
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    I'm not denying that Johto had a lot of flaws, but I've found every saga has been in the same boat. I think everyone exaggerates how supposedly "horrible" it was, though.
    There hasn't been any saga with no flaw since that would be rather difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish. I agree that the flaws in Johto, particularly with how bad the fillers are, have been exaggerated, but I do think it is one of the most flawed arcs. It isn't surprising since they were still working out issues from the first two sagas, as well as new ones introduced in Johto, and it's still enjoyable, but most of the sagas afterwards are better than Johto in my opinion.
    That's fair. I can understand that logic. I feel like every saga, be it Kanto or Unova, has had its fair share of flaws in it. Maybe Johto had a few more, but not to the point where it was unwatchable or anything by any means.

  7. #172
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Somewhere dreaming forever
    Posts
    4,213

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    That's fair. I can understand that logic. I feel like every saga, be it Kanto or Unova, has had its fair share of flaws in it. Maybe Johto had a few more, but not to the point where it was unwatchable or anything by any means.
    While I do think that Johto had more flaws than a lot of other sagas, I definitely don't think that it's unwatchable by any means. If I could afford it, I'd get all of the episodes on DVD. I do think that it had a lot of problems that are worth a discussion.

  8. #173
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    334

    Visit Fennekin's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    I love going back and watching the Johto episodes. It is definitely my second favorite series in Pokémon.

  9. #174
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    111
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Are you kidding me?

    The reason I almost quit the anime for good was the Joutou episodes. I did quit watching it, but I came back after reading a bit about the latter series and about the japanese vs english versions.
    And even so, watching the original series was a struggle and I ended deciding to skip the fillers, which made it a lot more bearable.
    Yet, Joutou had battles that were waaaay better than the Kanto ones.

    What ruined Joutou for me was the over-abundance of fillers, Takeshi looking like he was just accompanying them because, Kasumi constantly bickering or offending Satoshi for no reason like she was paid to be annoying or looking like she had her soul absorbed by the togepi she was always carrying around. The Rocket-dan attacks were just the worse too. They weren't BW serious, but the writers tried too hard into making them the antagonists. And their attacks took too long minutes of each episode. I remember clearly that many episodes had 2~3 attacks...
    The only good thing in Joutou IMO was that they finally gave actual battles to the Gyms.
    Kanto's GYM batttles, or just battles, were very few. So at least Joutou had that done better...
    On the other hand Kanto obviously handled Kasumi and Takeshi much better as they were still "fresh" back then.

    The original series is my 2nd least likeable part of the anime. If only because of Joutou and the Orange Islands.
    I'd definitely watch the Kanto bits again if I had to. But I wouldn't watch beyond the first league again if it wasn't just to pick the battles I want for my compilation -__-

  10. #175
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Croatia.
    Posts
    2,685
    Blog Entries
    21

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi Da Ze View Post
    What ruined Joutou for me was the over-abundance of fillers, Takeshi looking like he was just accompanying them because, Kasumi constantly bickering or offending Satoshi for no reason like she was paid to be annoying or looking like she had her soul absorbed by the togepi she was always carrying around. The Rocket-dan attacks were just the worse too. They weren't BW serious, but the writers tried too hard into making them the antagonists. And their attacks took too long minutes of each episode. I remember clearly that many episodes had 2~3 attacks...
    The only good thing in Joutou IMO was that they finally gave actual battles to the Gyms.
    Kanto's GYM batttles, or just battles, were very few. So at least Joutou had that done better...
    On the other hand Kanto obviously handled Kasumi and Takeshi much better as they were still "fresh" back then.
    Dunno, to me it seemed like Brock received better treatment and more focus in Johto compared to Kanto. He was fairly active as character injecting lighthearted humor, and fun interactions in main cast having many memorable moments when either he developed or influenced someone else story.
    Developed as breeder by learning to prepare new medicines and potions, exchanging his knowledge with other breeders, applied his attainment in taking care of various pokemon like Stantler, hurt Houndoom, Sudowoodo, helped Totodile to win over Azumarill etc.

    While still giving Ash advices and helped to prepare strategy(especially in league or prior to big tournaments), helping them to navigate way to new towns, entered breeding contest with Suzie, raised Pineco to Fortress and Zubat to Crobat With Brock trying to seduce girls being flirty toward them, in his fights with Ash over pokemon like Donphan and who is gonna catch it etc. Or his nervousness trying to run away from marrying Temaku, in his eccentric behavior licking other pokemon like Sudowudo etc.

    Same applies to Misty which entered various competitions like Seaking contest, Whirl Cup, Ballon and Alto Mare race. Learn how to understand water pokemon better through Marill, her Poliwhirl or Psyduck becoming more tolerant toward it. Became more patient and mature getting over complex of inferiority helping others with same issue like Sakura. Had several memorable interactions with various characters like Egan or Dorian, battled a lot more compared to Kanto, Contributed to resolution of plots in various episodes befriending Hoot Hoot finding way out of forest allowing them to reach Newbark city,took initiative in breaking Arbok mecha and save Pikachu and Togepi, borrowed Ash her water pokemon to enter fire distinguish competition, .
    Etc, etc.

    As matter of fact she became less aggressive to Ash compared to Kanto not scolding Ash over everything reflecting maturity and growth she wen t through as character.

    She became more tolerant and closer to Ash and Brock appreciating their friendship playfully joking with them, sometimes getting in to clash but also showing lot of moral support and concern when either of them was in danger. Whether it was helping Brock about love issues and girls like Temaku, when he got sick taking care of his pokemon, when Ninetales deceived him etc. Or Ash comforting him when he lost important battle, left his pokemon at special training like Charizard, when Gary mocked him, helping him to prepare strategies before entering tournaments like Whirl Cup, grass tournament or league providing lot of moral support and encouragement being by his side. While talking with them about dreams and personal wishes having laugh and fun together.
    While still being tomboyish and rebellious, full of adventurous spirit liking to experiment having rich personality.

    In reality i missed her flamboyant dynamic when she left cast leaving before her time with lot of things about her story and dreams like water master goal ending unfinished and underdeveloped.

    As such looking back personally i had no issues with main cast in Johto still enjoying in Ash, Brock and Misty as characters coming of as enjoyable when having chance to shine, along with creating close bond building on friendship(which came to expression most in departure episode).

    My main problem with this region was more with lack of direction for writers to take anime forward at that time, too many fillers and drop of promising plots like GS ball damaging main cast chance to get more focus and role to play.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 3rd July 2013 at 02:15 AM.

  11. #176
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    My biggest complaint about Johto is not showing regional Pokemon enough. I mean while Blaziken made its debut in Johto saga episodes, Typhlosion made its debut in Hoenn saga episodes. And it wasn't even a vital role. The writers didn't use well most of likeable Johto Pokemon.

  12. #177
    The Burning Blade FireBlader15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    New Milford CT
    Posts
    47
    Blog Entries
    75

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    But does anyone notice that none of Ash's water types evolve

  13. #178
    Registered User PockyAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    1,014
    Follow PockyAddict On Twitter Add PockyAddict on Facebook
    Follow PockyAddict on Tumblr Visit PockyAddict's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Even tho I love johto, rewatching some of the episodes. The COTDs annoyed me for some reason that I still can't put my finger on. I think the only that I sorta liked was Brad Van Dame (the guy from the smoochum episode.)

  14. #179
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,787

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Johto was alright depending on the episodes. But most of it was a filler fest and it would have been nice for Ash's friends to either have been doing more or replaced back then.

  15. #180
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,884
    Blog Entries
    780

    Follow Karamazov on Tumblr

    Default Re: To what degree was Johto flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by FireBlader15 View Post
    But does anyone notice that none of Ash's water types evolve
    Yep! A lot of people have, actually. But that's not the topic of this thread.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •