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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Okay, whilst I still feel what I said a few posts up, I just want to add this:

    I don't see why people are assuming that being enjoyed by the older audience equals not for the younger audience. A common example being the 'darker' side of DP which kids could easily enjoy. For example Hunter J: the villian who tried to kill Satoshi, can turn things to stone, flies around in a giant ship, has some pretty neat pokemon, has a nice evil villainess design, ect. I don't see the only appeals to adults part. It's not like she succeeded in killing Satoshi. Kids like action. Also, Shinji: the jerk rival, with unusual yet strong pokemon, a willingness to do anything to become more powerful and being allowed to hate him by the writers without being forced to either. I actually think that kids understand him better than older fans thanks to being closer to his age: they can act like that for such a small reason. Kids are more likely to ask for pure entertainment than adults (who can want reasons to the level that reasons take over the entertainment.) Finally having arcs and stuff: greater variety. Kids don't want to watch the same episodes again and again just like we don't.

    It's been said on here a few times that being for kids doesn't mean bad writing so why is it that people are assuming that any good writing can't be for them?
    Lol most little kids hated shinji despite him having badass pokemon. Is only the people on the internet that idolize him and belive hes the best thing since sliced bread.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Okay, whilst I still feel what I said a few posts up, I just want to add this:

    I don't see why people are assuming that being enjoyed by the older audience equals not for the younger audience. A common example being the 'darker' side of DP which kids could easily enjoy. For example Hunter J: the villian who tried to kill Satoshi, can turn things to stone, flies around in a giant ship, has some pretty neat pokemon, has a nice evil villainess design, ect. I don't see the only appeals to adults part. It's not like she succeeded in killing Satoshi. Kids like action. Also, Shinji: the jerk rival, with unusual yet strong pokemon, a willingness to do anything to become more powerful and being allowed to hate him by the writers without being forced to either. I actually think that kids understand him better than older fans thanks to being closer to his age: they can act like that for such a small reason. Kids are more likely to ask for pure entertainment than adults (who can want reasons to the level that reasons take over the entertainment.) Finally having arcs and stuff: greater variety. Kids don't want to watch the same episodes again and again just like we don't.

    It's been said on here a few times that being for kids doesn't mean bad writing so why is it that people are assuming that any good writing can't be for them?
    Lol most little kids hated shinji despite him having badass pokemon. Is only the people on the internet that idolize him and belive hes the best thing since sliced bread.
    I agree. Most kids I talked to had acted like he was one of the villians of the show because of how he acted more than Team Rcoket. And that was pretty sad seeing how Team Rocket was more funny than could be takened seriously back then.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Usually, when a franchise tries to appeal to an older audience, the results are disastrous.

    Isn't the reason why we still watch the show is because we still like the show's content?
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    Registered User Madame Pika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Okay, whilst I still feel what I said a few posts up, I just want to add this:

    I don't see why people are assuming that being enjoyed by the older audience equals not for the younger audience. A common example being the 'darker' side of DP which kids could easily enjoy. For example Hunter J: the villian who tried to kill Satoshi, can turn things to stone, flies around in a giant ship, has some pretty neat pokemon, has a nice evil villainess design, ect. I don't see the only appeals to adults part. It's not like she succeeded in killing Satoshi. Kids like action. Also, Shinji: the jerk rival, with unusual yet strong pokemon, a willingness to do anything to become more powerful and being allowed to hate him by the writers without being forced to either. I actually think that kids understand him better than older fans thanks to being closer to his age: they can act like that for such a small reason. Kids are more likely to ask for pure entertainment than adults (who can want reasons to the level that reasons take over the entertainment.) Finally having arcs and stuff: greater variety. Kids don't want to watch the same episodes again and again just like we don't.

    It's been said on here a few times that being for kids doesn't mean bad writing so why is it that people are assuming that any good writing can't be for them?
    Lol most little kids hated shinji despite him having badass pokemon. Is only the people on the internet that idolize him and belive hes the best thing since sliced bread.
    Whilst I disagree with you I think you are completely missing one of my points. I'm sorry that I did not make my point so clear in the first place. I am saying that they 'can enjoy' his character: that he is meant for them. 'Can enjoy' is different from 'do enjoy'. The point I was making was that they were trying to make him work for kids and if they succeeded or not is irrelevant.

    There are kids out there that do enjoy him and people here who would have enjoyed him if they were in the target audience. Now, there are definite points where he is supposed to look badass and it is a fact that kids can enjoy rival characters. Just look at all of Shigeru's fans. Most of them, came from back when the first showed the show. Also, note that Shinji is supposed to be a character that you can 'love to hate', so it is possible to hate him and enjoy him. It is also possible to just 'love' him and it is possible to just 'love' him. Having extra dimensions brings in lots of different reasons to like a character, never mind what the audience is.

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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker View Post
    Usually, when a franchise tries to appeal to an older audience, the results are disastrous.

    Isn't the reason why we still watch the show is because we still like the show's content?
    Personally i like lighthearted humor, characters and concept behind story which is supposed to follow adventures of one main protagonist and its friends exploring world of pokemon gradually growing forward.

    But i also think there exists lot of room for improvement following anime with hope of things improving for better in certain areas. Such as development of characters and pokemon coming of in more believable way, making anime more continuity based filled with stable cast and solid story. Previous companions not disappearing forever once they leave cast working more with something you already established, taking it forward etc.

    Something other shows aimed at kids are handling better.

    Such things wouldn't drastically change current format of show maintaining interest among younger generations, but they would in long run make anime more appealing to wider group of people imo.

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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Okay, whilst I still feel what I said a few posts up, I just want to add this:

    I don't see why people are assuming that being enjoyed by the older audience equals not for the younger audience. A common example being the 'darker' side of DP which kids could easily enjoy. For example Hunter J: the villian who tried to kill Satoshi, can turn things to stone, flies around in a giant ship, has some pretty neat pokemon, has a nice evil villainess design, ect. I don't see the only appeals to adults part. It's not like she succeeded in killing Satoshi. Kids like action. Also, Shinji: the jerk rival, with unusual yet strong pokemon, a willingness to do anything to become more powerful and being allowed to hate him by the writers without being forced to either. I actually think that kids understand him better than older fans thanks to being closer to his age: they can act like that for such a small reason. Kids are more likely to ask for pure entertainment than adults (who can want reasons to the level that reasons take over the entertainment.) Finally having arcs and stuff: greater variety. Kids don't want to watch the same episodes again and again just like we don't.

    It's been said on here a few times that being for kids doesn't mean bad writing so why is it that people are assuming that any good writing can't be for them?
    Lol most little kids hated shinji despite him having badass pokemon. Is only the people on the internet that idolize him and belive hes the best thing since sliced bread.
    The older kids enjoy Shinji more I think because it felt as though finally there was a kid on the show that wasn't all perky and sweet like most kids we know in the real world. I think that's also why sme adults(a.k.a myself) like him too.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Bro Bro Bro Avatar three seasons sequel going to have four seasons. Gargoyles three seasons. 2003 TMNT had half the seasons as the Mega hit origin. Power Rangers Samarai calls backs to season 1 all the time Most successful Power Rangers in years.

    If deep development ain't your thing just make it hardcore like DBZ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkara
    Gary reveals that he already has six pokemon. And judging by the pokemon around that area I'm guessing he has a rat a bird two bugs AND anouther bird

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    Registered User agramugl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    The words "Pokemon" and "edgy" should never be uttered in the same sentence. Ever.

    Pokemon is primarily a show aimed towards children. The reason I enjoy it is because of how fun and innocent it is. I have other fandoms for darkness and violence. Besides, very few series make a smooth transition from childish to more mature (Batman and DBZ come to mind).

    HOWEVER, I think it would be a great idea if they threw the older fans a bone once in awhile.

    Most of my college friends grew up loving the original series, but felt it went downhill because elements they grew up loving just disappeared and were never referenced again. Most look back on the old stuff fondly, and the ones who know that certain elements return at some points (Misty comes to mind) will watch the episodes with said certain elements. If certain characters--Misty--appeared in NEW episodes, with the way the internet works and news carries, they'd watch it. Hell, Tumblr went crazy just over seeing N's face. If Misty came back, the old fans would watch it, even if she only appeared in an episode.

    The odd thing is that Pokemon is one of the only shows like this that doesn't do this. Look at Avatar the Last Airbender. When Korra came out, it had a bunch of references to the old series, despite the fact the older series ended years ago...and that many of the fan favorite characters were dead. Look at Doctor Who. Almost 50 years of continuity, and yet, every so often, they'll throw in something from the past to appeal to the old time fans--many of whom are old enough to work on the show.

    Why is Pokemon any different?

    So there should be occasional fanservice to the old fans, but the show itself should not be aimed toward the old fans. Keep the show the way it's been running for the most part. You can throw in occasional dark moments, an adult joke or two if you're pushing it, but the only thing I'd like to see (no sense of entitlement here, just a wish) is some acknowledgement, a wink and a nod, to some of the old fans, if even for a single episode.

  9. #39
    Will Rip Titles 4 Money speedingbulletbill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    I think they should try harder to appeal to a wider age range. I'm not saying have blood, cursing, etc., but just have it to a higher standard, you know?

    Marketing and the "kids show" label seem like nothing more than crutches for the writers to put less effort than necessary, especially considering it never used to be solely for kids, or a marketing tool.

    I don't watch MLP, and probably never will, but it's appealing to grown men. They're even buying MLP merchandise. Now, people will claim that it's for (more like "aimed at") little girls, which it probably is, but they must be doing something right if grown men are into it. MLP doesn't seem to be using "it's a kids show" or marketing as a crutch. Why, then, shouldn't Pokemon aim at a wider age range, if MLP could pull it off?

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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    I actually wouldn't mind a more mature spin-off series, dealing with sixteen year olds who have already done their traveling shtick. And who just get involved with a massive adventure, like fighting Team Rocket or whatever.

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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    I actually wouldn't mind a more mature spin-off series, dealing with sixteen year olds who have already done their traveling shtick. And who just get involved with a massive adventure, like fighting Team Rocket or whatever.
    So basically Pokemon Special? I'd watch that.

    Again, I'm falling back on Doctor Who again, but...Torchwood. Doctor Who for adults, basically--even though Doctor Who is, in my opinion, superior. Still worked, still really fun, and it had an edge that older audiences could get behind. Still, it didn't have something Doctor Who has...probably the Doctor, but also some sense of fun. A mature series of Pokemon would still need to be Pokemon in spirit, just with a more mature edge.

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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Quote Originally Posted by agramugl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fandango View Post
    I actually wouldn't mind a more mature spin-off series, dealing with sixteen year olds who have already done their traveling shtick. And who just get involved with a massive adventure, like fighting Team Rocket or whatever.
    So basically Pokemon Special? I'd watch that.

    Again, I'm falling back on Doctor Who again, but...Torchwood. Doctor Who for adults, basically--even though Doctor Who is, in my opinion, superior. Still worked, still really fun, and it had an edge that older audiences could get behind. Still, it didn't have something Doctor Who has...probably the Doctor, but also some sense of fun. A mature series of Pokemon would still need to be Pokemon in spirit, just with a more mature edge.
    Just not as mature as Torchwood tried to be in season one :P I'm thinking more Children of Earth rather than "Torchwood Mansion" (if you know what I mean)

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    I don't understand the premise of the OP's Question, frankly.
    I don't see how Pokemon isn't widely directed at all ages.

    Not that the English dub did much to convey the wide range of appeal that Pokemon has
    But I like to think that Pokemon tries to throwh in a little bit of everything for everybody.

    Everyone finds something that they love about the show, regardless of who it's (supposedly) aimed at,
    although I believe that those who can't not enjoy the show for what it is
    probably wouldn't enjoy it if they took it in any other direction either.

    It is what it is and for what it is is where it's charm lies.
    You what Edgy? Read the Manga.

    In fact, I believe that is the very mistake they made with Team Rocket in B&W.
    They tried to make TR too "serious" and "Edgy" but totally destroyed their characters in the process.
    Just imagine them doing that to the whole show.
    Last edited by TheCableGuy; 17th February 2013 at 04:59 AM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    Yes! if the writers were to follow the footsteps of other great shows that were labled as kid shows that had a huge older audience such as Animaniacs, Cow and Chicken,ANgry Beaver, and Rocko's Modern life, Pokemon should follow in the glory that these shows did in appealing to both young childern and adults alike. THese shows were packed with references and shout outs, THey were famous for "getting crap past the radar", 4th wall breakage,and were zany but just serious enough to get the point across.

    Pokemon used to have quite a few shout outs early on. after a while the shoutouts mostly were the title cards and not much else. there was the zoura MGM logo, but not much else. while other cartoons had in show older vintage films that would play on the tv, have episodes based of off other media (such as courage the cowardly dog and animaniacs). Animanicas was just a huge shout out to almost everybody in the TV industry and thats what made poeple out of the age range relate the show to.

    ANother key factor by getting a show to appeal out side the young target audience is to get as tvtropes puts ii: Getting Crap past the Radar. this is putting material that isnt normally suitable for younger views in a subtle way that the younger viewres and censors wont pick up on it. Animanicas again is a king of this trope. there were some references and junk that were not overly too noticable if you were sleeping through the show but the big intentional ones would have Yakko say "goodinght everybody" to indicate that this was very intentional to get something that seemed dirty with an innocent use. Pokemon did have its moments moreso in the game than the anime. the more crap that got past was in the OS and advanced and started to become more cleaner. though DP mostly focused on Dawn and had that part with Byron. and BW hasd a few scense that involved Cilan, Georgia, and Bianca. the shows like animaniacs and ROkos Modern life were a constant barrage of that type of content where pokemon used it more and more sparingly.

    In terms of delibritly adding more adult content to souly make pokemon to the maturity level of shows like Samurai CHamploo, soul eater, ect. ect. Just NO. though i wouldnt be a against a "jerry springer" type pokemon episode to settle the shipping fights once and for all.

    The fourth wall is key in maing something funny reguardlesss. Pokemon did have a good job with this but the lack of useage is what helped kill off some of the appeal to it. From the classic Hit the camera to directly talking to the audience everyone gets a kick out of that. but pokemon remainded conservative with it. in animaniacs, they have the character jump on top of the subtitles when they were speaking in Japanese and one of them comments, "hey its a foreign film!" Pokemon Would never go to that level 11 in the fourth wall.

    by adding into and adding more of these things, pokemon can both keep young kids adn older adults as the key audiences and still be entertaing just like many american classics from the 90s that are staples in many young adults today

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    Default Re: Should the show appeal more to those that aren't within the target audience?

    @97SaturnSL1

    Oh, dear sweet jebus no. Honestly, Pokémon's appeal was the widest during Diamond and Pearl, where filler episodes weren't all that present, you had an amazing rival in Paul and Team Galactic and Pokémon Hunter J were always there to bring back some tension.

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