Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

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  • I do think Misty/Brock should have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are

    22 44.00%
  • I don't see much of a difference between the two sets of sidekicks

    8 16.00%
  • I actually prefer the way Misty/Brock were handled over Iris/Cilan

    15 30.00%
  • I am undecided

    5 10.00%
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Thread: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

  1. #1
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    In many ways Best Wishes seems to be Tomioka's take on Kanto. As we all know Takeshi Shudo was in charge of Kanto, so Tomioka was never fully in charge of the show like he became afterward.

    It seems like they're finally learned how to switch off between giving sidekick characters their proper due. While neither of them will have a co-star role, the writers are balancing off both Cilan and Iris and given them each a role one after the other. It seems like their backstories are being explored and they're being more to do than just be, "Ash's sidekicks."

    Looking back, Misty or Brock stepping out of the sidelines and into the action was very rare. Part of this is because back when the show first started, it had to focus on the concept of Pokemon itself and Ash's story as they didn't know if the series would be a success or not. Yet as a result, many characters suffered for it and was a result of trial and error in many cases. The same could be said for the way Gary was handled as a rival.

    In the end, neither Misty nor Brock really got the development they needed, and both wound up just being, "token sidekicks" besides the rare moments of glory the writers gave them. As we can see here, Iris and Cilan seem like they're going to be far better character arcs, especially by the time this saga ends.

    What is your take on all this? Are Iris/Cilan an attempt to, "do things right" this time around?
    Last edited by Musashi; 2nd September 2011 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User garfield15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    (Oh boy here we go)

    Yes, I think pushing them in the direction Iris and Cilan are in now would have been very good.

  3. #3
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    I also like how their goals are more clearly established.

    Misty and Brock had such vague goals such as, "best water pokemon trainer," and, "worlds best breeder" which obviously had no chance in hell of being accomplished while they were on the main cast.

    This is why the writers abandoned those goals, and made Misty a Gym leader and Brock into a doctor instead. Those vague goals could never be focused on much.

    Iris/Cilan's goals are much more simple and to the point.

  4. #4
    PDL
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    There is a far easier explaination for all of this:

    The earlier seasons were written as they were because the writers really had no idea what would work at the time. It's a trial and error process.

    You seem to forget that hindsight is always 20/20.
    Part-time Fanfic writer, Full-time crank.

  5. #5
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    Quote Originally Posted by PDL View Post
    The earlier seasons were written as they were because the writers really had no idea what would work at the time. It's a trial and error process.
    For Kanto, I agree. But by the time Johto started the writers realized this was going to be a long-spanning series. They also had 3 years worth of timeframe there to do what they didn't do in Kanto.

    I'm honestly surprised with all the current focus on Cilan and Iris. If you were to combine them into one character, their screentime is almost equal to May's screentime back during Hoenn. Its only when you separate them that they get less.

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    Ice Master. AshK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    I am sort of indifferent about giving Ash's travelling companions a lot of deep development and side stories. I think the characters should be interesting and given a good personality (Brock/Misty/Cilan/Iris have great personalities) but does it matter to me if they are given their own major subplots? Not really, its not a concern to me. If people think that the sidekicks are being 'handled' better now then in Kanto then good for them.

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    Registered User Mystical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    In Johto I feel they defiantly should have been handled the same way as Iris and Cilan. Iris has developed more personality in the few months she has been a protagonist compared with the years of Misty being a protagonist in my opinion.

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    Gangsta's Paradise Froakie's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    I don't see how Iris/Cilan are being written any better, so I dunno. Brock is different to Cilan in that Brock was with Ash for 13 years, and Cilan is likely to only last 1/2 seasons.

  9. #9
    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    Oh, definitely. Kanto had heaps of flaws the writers have addressed as the series has gone on and they've realized what could be improved on.

    Lack of Pokemon personalities? Addressed in Jouto. Horrible battle choreography and boring one-hit-win battles? Addressed in the latter ends of the Orange arc. Lack of visible progress in terms of strength, instead having Pokemon magically get stronger and pull new attacks out of their asses every episode? Largely addressed in AG. Main character just kinda stumbles his way through battles with luck and freebies? Addressed in late Kanto, even.

    And finally, companion characters who actually serve a point beyond being token companions, which was largely addressed in AG with the introduction of Haruka, and now apparently fully "fixed" with the introduction of two new companions with clearly established sub plot arcs it's very clear the writers know exactly how will be completed.
    So.

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    Reader and Writer Legacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    I just think the focus of the anime back then was more on the plot and highlighting the concepts of Pokemon that Misty and Brock didn't end up getting as much close attention.

  11. #11
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    Brock and Misty should have received more focus and better treatment but i wouldnt change things which surrounded their characters or their dreams turning them into someone else.Iris and Cilan do seem to have more simple goals but what l like about complex dreams is that mysterious quality which they give to character not knowing what to expect from them allowing writers to develop character in many different ways.

    Mistys preference for water type wanting to become best water trainer in world is unique thing about her character with many examples like Wallace,Lorelei etc proving how this dream is perfectly possible to accomplish showing how there exist ways to advance it as Whirl islands showed.
    Same for Bock,turning him in trainer or something else wouldnt make much sense because as we get to see whole point for Brock choosing to leave gym and travel with Ash was because he got tired of doing something he didnt enjoyed in wanting to take care of pokemon learning how to pull out their inner strength becoming breeder.

    What writers should have done with them is:
    For Misty:-give her more battling and focus to get som character developmnt
    -show some steps through which her dream could hgave been advanced(Whirl Cup was good start but it happened too late)
    -possibly giving her some rival(Marina was such a wasted opportunity)
    -do more with pokemon(especially with ones like Sarmie,Horsea or Goldeen)

    For Brock:-give him more focus about his goal of being breeder
    -contribute more to plot in general by being little more engaged in battling sometimes
    -have him meet more of breeders out there to who he could demonstrate his skills becoming recognized and learn new things from them(lik he did from Suzie).

    However so far i have to say Misty and Brock got a hell of a better treatment than Iris and Cilan received with writers doing several things right for them.Also its little too early to compare this characters.We should wait to see how will Iris and Cilan as well their goals end up treated by end of BW before we make any assumptions.Currently Brock and Misty are leading having better treatment than Iris or Cilan so far received.

    However if Atsuhiro Tomioka was in charge or original series im pretty sure Misty would get better treatment than she did under mr.Shudo care basing on what we know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Misty and Brock had such vague goals such as, "best water pokemon trainer," and, "worlds best breeder" which obviously had no chance in hell of being accomplished while they were on the main cast.
    Mistys goal was very similar to Ash being possible to accomplish.
    From what it has been showed water pokemon master means to become best water trainer in world.Something E4 members are showed to be being best trainers who specialize in one type.
    -just like Ash and coordinators have steps they would need to overcome in order to come closer toward their dreams,it has been showed in form of Whirl Cup how there exist steps someone needs to overcome in order to become water pokemon master as well.
    Examples like Wallace or Lorelei showed how Mistys goal was perfectly realistic.

    Reason why we didnt see Mistys goal being more expanded was because of writers(like mr.Shudo) who wrote for main character never intending to give her more focus or bigger role in general.
    As many people said already there were several opportunities through which writers could have don more with Misty goal from giving her rival and do something about her neglected pokemon to having Misty battle more creating couple of competitions which could have lead to one big tournament at end serving as indication of further progress being made.
    This is what should have happened in Johto instead of wasting all those extra time on pointless fillers.

    As for Brocks goal of being breeder this was showed as relatively simple goal.It was showed to be mostly about taking care of pokemon raising them to be in top shape with several breeders we met in show showing what Brocks profession is supposed to be as Suzie or that breeder girl in pokemon contest where Brock battled vs May showed.Brocks goal unlike Mistys never required some competitions,benchmarks or battling in general to be advanced being rather passive one.

    However that doesnt excuse writers from not giving him more focus to show his skills of being breeder on screen showing that he is learning more.

    This is why the writers abandoned those goals, and made Misty a Gym leader and Brock into a doctor instead. Those vague goals could never be focused on much.
    In Misty case there hasnt been showed any indication that they abandoned her goal.She didnt decided to change her career like Brock did never having interest in running gym until she was forced to take it over and stay because of unreliable sisters as chronicles showed viewing it as job.We can see Misty still preferring water type wanting to learn everything she can becoming one day best with them after departure too.
    Considering writers left situation unclear with Misty not deciding to change career but not showing that she chosed to quit with her original goal either we dont know what to expect from her in future with her goal of becoming water master being left hanging in the air.Her situation was showed to be similar to Brocks when he was gym leader taking care of gym because of feeling its her responsibility die to not having anyone else to rely on.
    Gym can currently be viewed as "stepping stone"in Misty career as water trainer and she could one day for all we know leave gym when substitute gets provided to advance her dream and skills like other gym leaders who left their positions in past did (like Wallace or Koga in games)making further progress toward career of water pokemon master.Becoming E4 is one of ways to achieve or come very close to it.

    About Brock his desire to become doctor can be viewed as step up from his position of being breeder considering how this two callings are very similar when it comes to taking care and heel of pokemon.

    And speaking of vague goals Ashs goal of becoming pokemon master is vague too but it didnt stopped writers from focusing on it.
    We already know thanks to ex head writer blogs why Misty didnt got more focus on her dreams and story in general.

    His frustration of not being able to do what he wanted with TR as well not caring for some characters reflected on quality of show.Granted he did some great things(even with Misty)but lack of focus for some characters was mainly hisfault.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 20th May 2011 at 07:13 AM.

  12. #12
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    I think that, while their goals weren't well thought out, Misty and Brock had great characterization. I wouldn't want them to be like Iris and Cilan, because those are different characters (abeit with suspiciously similar qualities.)

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    I just think the focus of the anime back then was more on the plot and highlighting the concepts of Pokemon that Misty and Brock didn't end up getting as much close attention.
    This basically.

    It was the staff's first show and they thought it would end after one series. Cut them some slack.

  14. #14
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    Quote Originally Posted by garfield15 View Post
    It was the staff's first show and they thought it would end after one series. Cut them some slack.
    Yet the original trio was reunited for Johto, and they were treated more or less the same. I think the only reason there were a few more Misty/Brock eps in Johto is because that saga was literally twice the length of Kanto, but it wasn't enough.

  15. #15
    Registered User Zoro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Misty/Brock have been handled the way Iris/Cilan are?

    Where is the option of Kasumi and Takeshi aren't Iris and Dent?

    Anyway since I like Iris and Dent more in terms of treatment I voted them.

    That is kinda of obvious though, the writing in Kanto was shit it improved a lot since then.

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