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Thread: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

  1. #91
    Pokémon Trainer MageLeif's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeddiUrsa View Post
    To be honest where is the fight? To many ( most?) of us Pokémon is a children's show. There isn't really much to debate here.
    Currently I am happy by watching a children's anime and no one of my friends would make jokes about me because of that. If I was 16 again when being "cool" and "edgy" was the greatest thing to most people around me I probably would say something different, but today I am mature enough to accept that I like a show which is made for children.
    There isn't a fight. There isn't a problem. There isn't an enemy.
    This is pretty much how I feel. If anybody has a problem with me watching an anime that I enjoy, well that is simply their problem and not mine.

    Karamazov also makes a pretty good point in "the anime becoming more universal in terms of demographic, not just a kiddie show". I can definitely see arguments for both sides as to weather the Pokémon anime is a "children's anime" or "family anime".

    As for the question "or is there more to it than that?" I would say sure, there are things that little kids would not understand, but there certainly isn't anything to go "extreme seriousness" so to speak.

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    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    My statement was a general warning and not targeted at any one individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    this is a debate and people will argue... if mods don't want that, then they shouldn't let this thread stay open...
    Disagreeing with another user is fine - but only as long as those disagreements are engaged with the substance and content of that user's posts, and not comprised of personal attacks at the users themselves. It is perfectly possible to conduct a debate without resorting to the latter.

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    Super Moderator Paperhorse's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    IMO, if you make something that appeals to kids (TV show, movie, game, etc) then it's for kids. It doesn't matter if it has more of an adult following. I view the pokemon anime in that way.

    Honestly, I think it is important that adults watch children's shows, especially if these adults have children, or they work with children. Children need guidance, and if an adult watches the show with them, it will help them understand the show better.

    And if you don't have children or work with children, you can just watch it for the sheer enjoyment of it. IMO, it's better to watch pokemon that a reality show that is mindless entertainment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karamazov View Post
    I'm starting to think that Pokemon is aiming to become more universal in terms of demographic, not just a kiddie show.
    I agree with this. I think most shows that are aimed at children are also branded as a "Family Show," that way the entire family can enjoy it and watch it together. Which is also good for family bonding.

  4. #94
    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperhorse View Post
    IMO, it's better to watch pokemon that a reality show that is mindless entertainment.
    I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. When I consider a lot of the so-called "mature" entertainment on offer to us adults - soap operas, reality shows and the like - I frankly think that Pokemon is far less of an insult to my intelligence. :p

  5. #95
    Angelic Champion Queen Cynthia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    You know, being SO crazy about a cartoon character isn't really what most would consider "normal"... so if you're saying people who watch cartoons for kids or ones that are aimed at the opposite gender are "retarded", then can't the same be applied to you?...
    I admit that this seems to be a clever argument, but be assured that Cynthia is a whole new ball game. My admiration for her is based on rational thinking, so you mustn't compare me with those adults I'm criticizing. I know this sounds hypocritical at first glance but this topic is far too complex to be explained in a few words. (If you were a member of the Cynthia Club or if you talked with me about Cynthia regularly, you'd probably understand it better). Nevertheless, I'll try to explain the difference as understandably as possible:
    The reason why I love Cynthia is not, repeat not, because I'm some crazy addict but because I'm convinced that she's a wonderful person who embodies all the truths and ideals we humans should strive for. It's her pureness, greatness and perfection that often makes me call her "the Queen" or "heaven-sent angel". If you believe that God reveals himself in many signs of everday life in order to show us the right way and to remind us of his eternal word, then you'll understand why I consider Cynthia as one of the most wonderful treasures God has given to me so far. (And no, I'm neither comparing Cynthia to Jesus Christ, nor am I some evangelical TV preacher out of touch with reality).
    This bring my back to the original topic: I was criticizing those adults who are watching children's cartoons because to me they often act irrationally. Just saying that you like something isn't reason enough for me as a rationally thinking person. You also have to base your opinion on evidence or valid arguments, and this is what I tried to show when I defended my admiration for Cynthia rationally(!).
    Here's my arguments: cartoons and video games, even if are aimed mainly at young kids, are a great thing that I love to spend my time on (well, more cartoons than games... and more anime than any cartoons...)
    I enjoy them a lot and I think whoever doesn't just misses one of the best things in this world, so it's their lose..
    Believe it or not, that's basically my opinion as well. It's difficult to get your message across if others are not familiar with your personal background. That's probably why I might sound harsh or emotionless sometimes. But in fact we're all in the same boat!
    Let me give you an example: Yesterday I went out with two girls and they dropped in at my place later on. (You know what that means, don't you). You keep repeating that people will still like you if you can plausibly explain to them why you like a specific thing. This sounds good in theory and I can tell you it's damn hard in practice! I'm really tired of having to explain and defend myself each and every time because most people just WON'T understand, no matter what efforts you make to get your point across. (Fortunately, those two girls respected it) But every "war", even a war with words, is exhausting and then I come here on the forums and hear people saying things which in real life I try to fight against again and again.
    I hope you'll now understand why I disapprove of people saying that Pokemon is a children's show so much. As I already pointed out in my very first post, I consider Pokemon a "universal show" aimed at all ages and it's only as an adult that you're finally able to understand it's message completely.
    "When I was younger, I used to dream of nothing other than becoming powerful through being victorious in battle, and so I trained endlessly."


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  6. #96
    XY Piplup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by garrison-san View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. When I consider a lot of the so-called "mature" entertainment on offer to us adults - soap operas, reality shows and the like - I frankly think that Pokemon is far less of an insult to my intelligence. :p
    QFT
    I always laugh at all these "adults" who spend their time on ridiculous reality shows and stuff while thinking cartoons are something stupid for kids only... but really, it's their lose...

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Cynthia View Post
    My admiration for her is
    Crazy and just as "not a normal thing" as adults watching kids cartoons... and no, your explanations why Cynthia is so awesome and some ridiculous stuff about "god" won't convince me it's somehow any more "normal" than adults watching kids cartoons

    You also have to base your opinion on evidence or valid arguments,
    There's no need for anything like that
    I'm watching kids cartoons and play kids video games because it's fun and entertaining to me... I don't need any "evidence" or "valid arguments" to prove anything
    I like what I like and if anyone got any problem with that then... well... I DON'T CARE

    You keep repeating that people will still like you if you can plausibly explain to them why you like a specific thing. This sounds good in theory and I can tell you it's damn hard in practice! I'm really tired of having to explain and defend myself each and every time because most people just WON'T understand
    I don't even have to explain anything
    Did these girls in your example provided you a list of their interests and asked you if you approve it? No, I'm pretty sure they didn't... so just like they didn't do that, you have no reason to try to get them to "approve" your list of interests
    As I said 235235 times before - everyone can like whatever they like, it's no one's business to tell you what to do or not to do... and just like some of your friends probably have interests that don't appeal to you personally and that you might even find no logic in at all, then you also have interests like this that not all your friends will share... because, what can we do, not everyone are identical clones of each other...
    Mature people don't argue with each other about their interests... they accept you as you are and move on with their life and talk with you about what DOES interest both of you... if they instead choose to constantly laugh at you or try to explain you why you shouldn't like it, then just kindly tell them to shut the fuck up and find better friends

  7. #97
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    This isn't a thread to talk about each other's personal lives. Back on topic, now.
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  8. #98
    XY Piplup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    This isn't a thread to talk about each other's personal lives. Back on topic, now.
    But it IS part of the discussion... if QC use examples like these to "prove" his point, I should be able to counter it with similar examples...
    Part of this "for kids or adults?" thing clearly IS coming from social reasons like these QC brought in his example... so I find it related enough for the discussion

    Anyway, I often found labeling TV shows as "for ___" is a little ridiculous... why can't we just say that everything is for everyone who happens to enjoy it, regardless of age/gender/etc?
    To me, Pokémon, like any other cartoon/game/anything, is something that can appeal to anyone as long as this person happens to like the idea of Pokémon, the Pokémon world, the Pokémon themselves, the show's plot (yes, while some wouldn't call that much of a plot, badge-collecting is a plot), the human characters, their development, their interactions, the funny scenes, etc...

    As long as it entertains you - it's good and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks... and most of normal adults won't try to convince each other to have an identical interests lists as their own...

  9. #99
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamant View Post
    Like everywhere else, not all Japanese kids shows aim at the same age range. I don't think anyone would claim that Teletubbies and Pirates of Dark Water are aimed at the same age groups, even though they're both very clearly kids' shows. FMA aims at the same age range Pirates of Dark Water did - roughly age 7-12 or thereabouts.
    FMA...for 12 year olds? I find something very creepy about that xD. If there's ever a way to show how two cultures are different, it's that xD. Especially as in the UK, Fullmetal Alchemist and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood are rated 15, and the BBFC tends to be very lenient (Heck, Elfen Lied got the same certificate rating, and they recently passed Strike Witches, uncut, as a 12). I don't know much about media, but in legal definitions, doesn't Shonen pretty much mean someone up to the age of 15? But yeah, obviously, each individual series will have their own targets along that spectrum.
    Boy, cultural differences are fun.

    But hey, Pokémon's childhood innocence is one of it's more redeeming features. Life's a bitch (especially adult life), yet sitting down for half an hour a week to watch something so colourful and lighthearted...'tis nice.
    Last edited by Joshawott; 24th June 2011 at 09:10 AM.

  10. #100
    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    FMA...for 12 year olds? I find something very creepy about that xD. If there's ever a way to show how two cultures are different, it's that xD. Especially as in the UK, Fullmetal Alchemist and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood are rated 15, and the BBFC tends to be very lenient (Heck, Elfen Lied got the same certificate rating, and they recently passed Strike Witches, uncut, as a 12).
    What some random guy in some country on the other side of the globe feels a TV series should be rated has no influence on the show's intended demographic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    I don't know much about media, but in legal definitions, doesn't Shonen pretty much mean someone up to the age of 15?
    There's no "legal definition". The shonen demographic is "young boys". If something isn't seen as appropriate for young boys, it won't be published as being for that demographic, obviously enough.
    So.

  11. #101
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    I swear I read somewhere that "Shonen" is also used in the legal area, when referencing someone under 15 (kinda makes sense, considering it's basic meaning).

    But yeah, I know the UK rating means nothing about the target audience for a Japanese-based product, it's just interesting how things are viewed differently in different cultures.

    Saying that though, looking at the 2003 FMA anime; out of the 13 DVD volumes, only 6 of them were given the 15 certificate (with volume 3 even being a PG); it's only Brotherhood that has consistently been a 15. So yeah, I'd say that the 2003 anime fits with the Japanese target audience somewhat. Then there's the English translation of the manga which is recommended as a 13+, which is pretty much the same as 12; so still pretty similar...it's just the BBFC are pretty inconsistent when they rate things xD

  12. #102
    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    I swear I read somewhere that "Shonen" is also used in the legal area, when referencing someone under 15 (kinda makes sense, considering it's basic meaning).
    Even if it is, that has nothing to do with what we're discussing any more than the legal definition of "child" in various laws have anything to do with the definition of "children's TV show". "Shonen comics" are "comics for male grade schoolers".

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Then there's the English translation of the manga which is recommended as a 13+, which is pretty much the same as 12
    The intended demographic isn't "12 and up" either, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
    Last edited by Adamant; 24th June 2011 at 10:13 AM.
    So.

  13. #103
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Meh.

    Either way, the majority of people in Japaan who watch Pokémon wouldn't be those who also watched Fullmetal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop etc. (Which is a shame; I'd love it if Giovanni's BW plan was like Father's in FMA xD).

    Although, a few more episodes like the Litwick one would be nice.

    EDIT: The beginning of 13+ is close to the end of the 7-12 scale you mentioned earlier. Tbh, I doubt many 7 year olds would read FMA xD
    Last edited by Joshawott; 24th June 2011 at 10:22 AM.

  14. #104
    Cuter in real life Iteru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    But it IS part of the discussion... if QC use examples like these to "prove" his point, I should be able to counter it with similar examples...
    Part of this "for kids or adults?" thing clearly IS coming from social reasons like these QC brought in his example... so I find it related enough for the discussion
    It isn't up to you to decide if it is related or not. Please drop it in future, as Dogasu has asked.

  15. #105
    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    EDIT: The beginning of 13+ is close to the end of the 7-12 scale you mentioned earlier. Tbh, I doubt many 7 year olds would read FMA xD
    What in the world are you talking about? Magazines aimed at grade schoolers don't contain a random selection of "stuff suited for 7-year-olds" and "stuff not suited for 7-year-olds, but suited for 12-year-olds".

    13+ is a completely different demographic than 7+. Demographics are general, not absolute math.

    Or, to put it simpler, nearly every part of the world operates with four different age demographics regarding such material: "Very young kids", "Young kids", "Older kids" and "Mature audiences".
    What Japan calls the "shonen" demographic falls under "young kids". Whether country x chooses to define this specifically as "age 7+" or "age 8+" doesn't matter, they're just general age ranges.
    Last edited by Adamant; 24th June 2011 at 11:56 AM.
    So.

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