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Thread: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

  1. #16
    XY Piplup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru View Post
    But if these themes are difficult for children to understand, does that not mean that the writing is counter-productive, and thus, not good in a sense?
    Well, it's not like it hurts them - even if some kids won't understand/appreciate these stuff, they'll still watch and enjoy the show for the various other reasons like the characters themselves, the battles, etc...
    So it can't really hurt to try some stuff like Ash/Paul or Dawn's depression... it adds some depth to the characters and makes them more interesting... so they're better this way for the older fans and for the young kids who are able to understand this stuff (not all kids are the same in regards to this) and for these who won't care about that it won't make the show any less enjoying - so why not?

    I think that given they have some mature stuff, the Anime stands on being a family show rather than just a children's show at times. Sort of like what Shudo hoped for, but to a lesser degree.
    I guess you could call it that, but it's really obvious that the target audience the creators' have in mind is young kids... and few mature/deeper stuff in the show aren't really the focus most of the time, but only every once in a while (like, how many eps really focused on Paul/Chimchar or Dawn's depression out of DP's 191 eps?...)

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    Excadrill est tres Beast Lafayette Excadrill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    My opinion is that Pokemon is a childrens show that should not be taken seriously at all. The show is written so that little kids can understand and still watch even if they miss like ten episodes. I don't think it was ever supposed to be a heavily plot driven series that teens or young adults will be appealed to. That's what the video games are for.

    I just think that Diamond and Pearl spoiled some of you guys with Paul and the excellent writing :-P

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    I'd like to continue the discussion from the review thread of this week's US episode here:

    In my review of "Dancing with the Ducklett Trio" I complained about how ridiculous and childish this ep was and how it angers me when I think of the many mature and epic episodes aimed at the older audience, especially during Kanto, the Battle Frontier and above all Sinnoh.
    I then went one step further, saying that in contrast to these silly shows like Ben Ten, Kim Possible, Tom and Jerry etc., Pokemon is intended to be taken seriously.

    A user then wrote the following post which I'd like to respond to because I think it fits into this thread perfectly:

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    In Ben 10, people die and go through a lot of problems but, it's still a kids show. In Tom and Jerry there is a lot of violence. Both Tom and Jerry and Ben 10 have a PG rating, compared to Pokemon's TV-7 ratings there all still for children. Silly antics like these will be in the show, because it's fun and is being marketed at males from childhood to adolscents primarily. So in other words children. Pokemon is not anymore mature then Ben 10, or any other show on Cartoonnetwork. It's just that, a childish silly little cartoon. Even if you don't want to admit it.
    There's one big mistake in your way of thinking. Since when has violence been a criterion how mature a show is? Shouldn't it rather be things like character development, dialoges, well thought-out plots, interesting motifs and epic scenes?
    Please don't get me wrong, it's because of people like you who consider Ben 10 etc. mature due to its level of violence that I said we better not compare Pokemon with all that mainstream crap. Most of those shows are dull, shallow and lack any maturity. In short, they're just downright silly!
    Now Pokemon is different! You might argue that children can also watch it and I don't want to deny that. But the actual message I've always wanted to convey when I brought up this topic is different. I'll repeat it here once again and I'll refer to it in future threads, should this problem arise again.

    This is my opinion on the whole "children's show or not?"-controversy:
    Pokemon is a universal cartoon, meaning that it's intended for all generations including kids. But only as an adult will you finally be able to understand its message and themes completely and thus be able to enjoy it to the fullest.

    (Yes, you could say that in some way I want to "protect" Pokemon from little kids' ignorance because it's too precious to waste it on people who don't understand it properly)
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    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru View Post
    But if these themes are difficult for children to understand, does that not mean that the writing is counter-productive, and thus, not good in a sense?
    That line of thinking is exactly what leads to bad childrens' shows. Challenging the mind is a good thing, underestimating your viewers' intelligence is not.
    So.

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    XY Piplup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette Excadrill View Post
    My opinion is that Pokemon is a childrens show that should not be taken seriously at all. The show is written so that little kids can understand and still watch even if they miss like ten episodes. I don't think it was ever supposed to be a heavily plot driven series that teens or young adults will be appealed to. That's what the video games are for.
    I doubt there's any real different between the show's intended target audience and the game's one... they're both made-for-kids anime/game, which like every anime/game/etc anyone from any age group can enjoy
    This is what I don't like with people, they love to decide "this is for kids" "this is for adults" etc... why can't we just say "everything is for everyone who happens to love it" ?
    Pokémon, like any other cartoon or game, can be enjoyed by people of all ages... as long as you like it and enjoy it - does it really matter what's the intended target audience was?

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    Cuter in real life Iteru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamant View Post
    That line of thinking is exactly what leads to bad childrens' shows. Challenging the mind is a good thing, underestimating your viewers' intelligence is not.
    I agree with that, but what the poster said was that they wouldn't appreciate those themes, so I was wondering if he felt that the writing was contradictory for their target audience. What I do wonder, is there a fine line between challenging their minds to which they could grasp some of the plotlines and something that only an older audience would get? Does something like that blur the concept of the Anime being a children's show?

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    Excadrill est tres Beast Lafayette Excadrill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    I agree with you whole-heartedly Piplup but it just grinds my gears when people complain about the show not developing its characters enough or not having a plot every episode. I just think the anime is meant to show off the pokemon themselves and not be about the characters.

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    BattleFanatic Eitarou's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Editorial BoardModerator
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette Excadrill View Post
    I agree with you whole-heartedly Piplup but it just grinds my gears when people complain about the show not developing its characters enough or not having a plot every episode. I just think the anime is meant to show off the pokemon themselves and not be about the characters.
    If it wasn't about the characters, then we wouldn't have so many of them. This show is a balance of both.

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    Excadrill est tres Beast Lafayette Excadrill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eitaroo View Post
    If it wasn't about the characters, then we wouldn't have so many of them. This show is a balance of both.
    I agree with that too. I guess what i'm trying to say is enjoy the show for what it is and always has been, an entertainment cartoon meant to make you laugh

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    Cuter in real life Iteru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    This isn't about the show being about character or Pokémon, it's the target audience.

  11. #26
    Registered User Adamant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru View Post
    I agree with that, but what the poster said was that they wouldn't appreciate those themes, so I was wondering if he felt that the writing was contradictory for their target audience. What I do wonder, is there a fine line between challenging their minds to which they could grasp some of the plotlines and something that only an older audience would get? Does something like that blur the concept of the Anime being a children's show?
    Children are generally smarter than people (and especially producers of childrens' television) tend to give them credit for. There's definitely a fine line between "challenging" and "overly complex", but nothing in Pokemon comes remotely close to that.

    (I mean, hell, we got a mainstream children's comic in Death Note, which was specifically written for kids because the author didn't want to deal with the kind of psychological and moral undertones he'd be expected to fill the series with had it been aimed at an older crowd. So yeah)

    (I bet someone's going to quote this post and claim Death Note isn't for kids :P)
    Last edited by Adamant; 19th June 2011 at 05:41 PM.
    So.

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    Well, it's not like it hurts them - even if some kids won't understand/appreciate these stuff, they'll still watch and enjoy the show for the various other reasons like the characters themselves, the battles, etc...
    So it can't really hurt to try some stuff like Ash/Paul or Dawn's depression... it adds some depth to the characters and makes them more interesting... so they're better this way for the older fans and for the young kids who are able to understand this stuff (not all kids are the same in regards to this) and for these who won't care about that it won't make the show any less enjoying - so why not?
    Do you know the basics of the business world?
    Nothing out there is given away for free or without any purpose. And it's definitely not the case that the writers are particularly nice or generous when they add a few mature scenes and plotlines here and there.
    Basically you're saying that he writers sometimes throw mature plotlines against the wall and see what sticks. I'm sorry but this won't work. I'm totally sure that everything they do is planned and fulfills a certain purpose.
    This, in return, means that if the writers decide to include more mature scenes, they actually want to appeal to the older crowd, which consequently proves that Pokemon is NOT just a children's show.
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    Yes, I think it's obviously marketed at children, but I don't think there's any shame in liking it as an adult.
    The fact that it comes on with all the rest of the children's cartoons is a giveaway :P
    I completely agree. There is no shame in liking it as an adult. Even though it's a children's show, that doesn't mean people of all ages can't enjoy it. I like to think of Pokemon as a "Family show," meaning everyone in the family can enjoy watching it, and watch it together too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru View Post
    What I do wonder, is there a fine line between challenging their minds to which they could grasp some of the plotlines and something that only an older audience would get? Does something like that blur the concept of the Anime being a children's show?
    Maybe some other shows, but not pokemon. Also, remember that children do not have to fully grasp an idea presented in the episode to enjoy it. They usually don't nitpick that much. :p I haven't seen all the episodes, but I have never seen a plot line or story that a child wouldn't "get." But IMO, just because children can understand the show, doesn't mean that an adult can't enjoy it or learn something from the theme of the episode.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Pokemon is a show targeted at children. In that sense, it is a children's show. But, as people have said, Pokemon can be enjoyed by all ages.

    As for the themes- some of them are a little mature for children to fully grasp, but they can still get them. I'm going to use Kanto as an example, because Kanto was primarily the season I watched as a child, when I was probably closest to the targeted audience age. (If not spot on it.)

    Specifically- The Indigo League, and Ash and Ritchie's friendship. These episodes feature the forming of a friendship, and the testing of that same friendship. Ash meets this guy who's a lot like him, and over the course of a night, and their chasing Team Rocket, the two become friends. And then, in the very next episode, they have to battle each other. The winner gets to take another step closer to their dream...while the loser just...loses. Then, after the battle, Ash gets depressed, his goal that he's been working towards the whole time is now out of reach, and he ends up having a heart-to-heart of sorts with Ritchie, who lost out in the next round.

    The message there hit me as a kid. I didn't fully grasp it all, but I got enough of it to matter. Ash's depression may not have lasted nearly as long as Dawns during DP, but it still had an impact. On me as a kid, and on me as an older teenager. The themes, the messages, mean more to the older audience, because they can understand it better. Because the older audience has been alive longer, and the themes in the show are more clear to them. But that doesn't mean children can't get them either. The themes may not mean as much, but they mean something, to everyone who watches the show.

    So in my opinion, Pokemon is a children's show, that everyone can watch, regardless of their age, and still understand, at least a little, the themes.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    It's aimed at children, but there are things older people can appreciate too. Not that Pokemon is exclusive at that.

    In any case, I hate it when fans who like the games claim that the anime is completely childish with nothing to appeal to older people and then basically say that the games have no target audience in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    You're talking as if during Kanto we saw Ash trying to kill someone every second ep... also, I don't really count violence as "mature" and always laughed at people who do that... mature to me is stuff like character development, maturing, deep stuff that aren't as easy for kids to understand/appreciate (like Paul's story, Chimchar, Dawn losing her confidence, etc...)
    About Dawn and her confidence... is there something I'm missing? I haven't seen every contest episode of Dawn, but from what I've gathered that whole thing about her confidence is just "I'm gonna win contests... aw rats, I keep losing... I suck at this." It provided plot and all, but I never understood why that whole storyline was so extra special.
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