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  1. #151
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by FANG-TAN View Post
    Takeshi Shudo originally intended to create something that was appealing to both Japanese children and their parents (as indicated by jokes in the anime's original intended run and themes seen in the first movie that you would never see in the current anime nowadays). He clearly lost most of the control he had over the story once Shopro/OLM decided to extend the series, and the series quickly devolved into something that's purely intended to appeal to just young children.

    So my answer is, no, there's nothing more to it than being a children's anime nowadays, though it clearly tried to be something more back then.
    Yeah, I strongly feel this way myself. I mean, it was still a children's anime before, but they still really put a lot more emotion into it before. A lot more emotional moments didn't come off as forced, more mature humor, that kind of stuff. Before, this anime still shined in terms of keeping the show...emotionally relatable sometimes. But it seems like this show has become more childish, but it's lost all of those moments where you still felt like the characters had their tough experiences, and through those experiences struggled and worked harder to get back up and get better and better. DP had a lot of that, and I like that, despite DP being my least favorite arc of this series thus far. No matter how much Paul pushed Ash down, he fought back with everything he had. Something I love about this series is that it taught me that you can't give up on your dreams, and if you fail, you just work harder and harder to get better at what you do. There's a lot more morals that are taught in OS and AG, though, and that's a trait I miss in the newer series. Everyone wasn't hunky-dory, and they worked together to get stronger, playing off each others' strengths and weakness to well...improve and recognize their own. Sure the basic premise of the anime has been the same since Day 1, but the show itself is just not the same anymore to me. It's lost that charm that made it unique and really made it stand out from other series. It's a shame to me to see it go on this long: I just wish it wasn't dragged out like this myself. Ash's tale should have ended with the older generation, so that the newer generation would have their own hero to look up to. That's how I feel myself.
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  2. #152
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Which manga? There are tons of Pokemon manga. And most, if not all, are aimed at elementary school kids, though they also appeal to older age groups.[/QUOTE]

    I currently read Platinum, Black & White and Ruby & Sapphire comes out next month. While kids may enjoy it I think it appeals to older audiences more.

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyblunt View Post
    I currently read Platinum, Black & White and Ruby & Sapphire comes out next month. While kids may enjoy it I think it appeals to older audiences more.
    Pocket Monsters Ruby & Sapphire or Pocket Monsters Special RS saga? And there's more than a few manga series based on Black and White.

    While I was at Kinokuniya (Japanese book store), there were quite a few kids gawking at the Pokemon manga in the children's manga section while most of the teens and adults were browsing elsewhere. The Pokemon manga series are mainly designed to appeal to children, but there are elements that could be considered appealing to older age groups as well. The one thing I think that separates the anime and manga series like Pokemon Special, is that the anime dips into the kodomo range, while the manga series tends to be third grade and up (in many cases with recent series, somewhat shounen). There's also the fact that Japanese comics are allowed to get away with more things than Japanese cartoons, so even if they are both aimed at the same audience, a manga will sometimes feel like it's appealing to an older audience when it's just the mangaka exercising the freedoms they have within the medium. Ono's bodacious fanservice in his manga interpretation of the anime is one extreme example.

    Quote Originally Posted by SonGoku View Post
    Sure the basic premise of the anime has been the same since Day 1, but the show itself is just not the same anymore to me. It's lost that charm that made it unique and really made it stand out from other series. It's a shame to me to see it go on this long: I just wish it wasn't dragged out like this myself. Ash's tale should have ended with the older generation, so that the newer generation would have their own hero to look up to. That's how I feel myself.
    For me, that would have been the best way to go. I loved Satoshi as a main character in the beginning, and I would have remembered him more fondly if he recurred in newer series as a legend instead of the stagnant protagonist I see him as now. One upside to introducing new main characters like in the games and Pokemon Special is that your old main characters can still appear again, a point which many people seem to miss in the anime fandom. He's not gonna be gone forever - it's up to the writers, in the end.
    Last edited by FANG-TAN; 24th March 2013 at 08:03 PM.

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  4. #154
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    I did not know there were multiple iterations. I shop online at Amazon and I go to Books A Million and Barnes and Noble. I have only known of one series that being Pokemon Adventures. These books are found in the Young Adult section of the stores. You are right about being able to get away with more in the manga than the anime. I prefer the manga just for refreshing characters instead of Mr. Ketchum all the time.

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Pokemon anime was originally tended to be a "family" show enjoyable by everyone in any age group. After Shudo Takeshi left somewhere in the middle of Johto saga, it is the time the show getting childish. The clear distinction can be seen starting from the next AG saga. That, is the time Pokemon anime starting to be a "preteen" show.

    Note, I'm not saying kids or children in this context, because such wording do not clearly distinct the age group of target audience. "Preteen" (Japanese uses the word Kodomo) will means target audience of <13 years old. "Teenage" (Japanese uses the word Shounen) will means target audience of 13~19 years old. Please understand clearly that these two target audience age group had complete different mentality and mind-set. I'd also discussed this issue in another thread back in some times before.

    Preteens are still innocent in their mind which cannot tell what is good or evil, they tend to imitate what they saw from their environment. Therefore Kodomo fictional series must be moralistic and educational, teaching children how to behave as good and considerate people and helping them to stay on the right path in life. The show should not contain themes that is too complicated for preteen children to understand. Things like romance, complicated scientific background, politics, religions, history must all be dropped. Also plotline itself should not be too complicated either.

    On the other hand, teenagers is in the age period of mental rebelliousness, one always think oneself is always right, so it is the time where one starting to do things on their own without the help of the parents, and make their own decisions on whatever issues one might encounter. Therefore, the Shounen fictional series mostly portray the growth of one person from amateur to professional through the challenges in the plots, whether such growth is in the characters' abilities, skills, or mentality. It can now includes themes that were dropped for preteens series, and plots can be more difficult and/or complicated.


    Well, I have to say the current Pokemon Anime surely made (more correctly speaking, forced) itself successfully into the Kodomo series. But from the fictional idea viewpoint, I always think this is inappropriate, because the idea of training monster, participate battle of such monster as sport, and using such monster to save the world is more appropriate in the Shounen category.
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  6. #156
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    *sigh* It used to be a family show-- something anyone could enjoy. Just to have fun.

    Sadly, it has lost any and all of that feeling over the years. It's become more and more of a children's show as the years have passed. Sure the basic plot and premise have always remained the same, but so many things have changed that the show isn't really relatable to anyone but the younger children these days.

    Up until Johto, it was a show for anyone, though. A bit at the beginning of AG, too. Post beg AG, it became more and more for the children than the family.

    Quote Originally Posted by クリスタル View Post
    Pokemon anime was originally tended to be a "family" show enjoyable by everyone in any age group. After Shudo Takeshi left somewhere in the middle of Johto saga, it is the time the show getting childish. The clear distinction can be seen starting from the next AG saga. That, is the time Pokemon anime starting to be a "preteen" show.

    Note, I'm not saying kids or children in this context, because such wording do not clearly distinct the age group of target audience. "Preteen" (Japanese uses the word Kodomo) will means target audience of <13 years old. "Teenage" (Japanese uses the word Shounen) will means target audience of 13~19 years old. Please understand clearly that these two target audience age group had complete different mentality and mind-set. I'd also discussed this issue in another thread back in some times before.

    Preteens are still innocent in their mind which cannot tell what is good or evil, they tend to imitate what they saw from their environment. Therefore Kodomo fictional series must be moralistic and educational, teaching children how to behave as good and considerate people and helping them to stay on the right path in life. The show should not contain themes that is too complicated for preteen children to understand. Things like romance, complicated scientific background, politics, religions, history must all be dropped. Also plotline itself should not be too complicated either.

    On the other hand, teenagers is in the age period of mental rebelliousness, one always think oneself is always right, so it is the time where one starting to do things on their own without the help of the parents, and make their own decisions on whatever issues one might encounter. Therefore, the Shounen fictional series mostly portray the growth of one person from amateur to professional through the challenges in the plots, whether such growth is in the characters' abilities, skills, or mentality. It can now includes themes that were dropped for preteens series, and plots can be more difficult and/or complicated.


    Well, I have to say the current Pokemon Anime surely made (more correctly speaking, forced) itself successfully into the Kodomo series. But from the fictional idea viewpoint, I always think this is inappropriate, because the idea of training monster, participate battle of such monster as sport, and using such monster to save the world is more appropriate in the Shounen category.
    Agreed with you. The beginning of AG had some very mature moments to it, though, like Ash struggling to get his Pikachu back to normal. Even despite being bit hard and almost at the edge of a cliff, Satoshi/Ash still held on because that's how deep his bond was with his Pokemon-- he was willing to die for his Pikachu. I thought that writing was very Takeshi Shudo-esque in comparison to what comes next. Post that, though....yeah, it's become more preteen with each successive season of AG onwards.

    Whatever the case, the depth and feeling the show was for everyone really began to fade after Shudo left.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 22nd May 2013 at 02:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    Agreed with you. The beginning of AG had some very mature moments to it, though, like Ash struggling to get his Pikachu back to normal. Even despite being bit hard and almost at the edge of a cliff, Satoshi/Ash still held on because that's how deep his bond was with his Pokemon-- he was willing to die for his Pikachu. I thought that writing was very Takeshi Shudo-esque in comparison to what comes next. Post that, though....yeah, it's become more preteen with each successive season of AG onwards.

    Whatever the case, the depth and feeling the show was for everyone really began to fade after Shudo left.
    You know what? General Friendship theme is also one of the common theme used very often in Kodomo series.

    In Shounen fictional works, other than the normal general friendship, they may have apprenticeship between students and teacher, partnership between two characters with certain common goal, comradeship between allies in battles, companionship and/or fellowship between one's traveling companions, colleagueship between peoples in one's working place... etc. So, friendship is not the only non-romance relationship available between people.

    To tell the truth, I don't see any kind of "maturity" after Johto saga. Even Ash may be injured or at some critical moment, but that doesn't make a scene "maturer" or anything. Even in many other Kodomo fictional works, characters are allowed to be injured severely if one encountered some accident or disaster.
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  8. #158
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by クリスタル View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    Agreed with you. The beginning of AG had some very mature moments to it, though, like Ash struggling to get his Pikachu back to normal. Even despite being bit hard and almost at the edge of a cliff, Satoshi/Ash still held on because that's how deep his bond was with his Pokemon-- he was willing to die for his Pikachu. I thought that writing was very Takeshi Shudo-esque in comparison to what comes next. Post that, though....yeah, it's become more preteen with each successive season of AG onwards.

    Whatever the case, the depth and feeling the show was for everyone really began to fade after Shudo left.
    You know what? General Friendship theme is also one of the common theme used very often in Kodomo series.

    In Shounen fictional works, other than the normal general friendship, they may have apprenticeship between students and teacher, partnership between two characters with certain common goal, comradeship between allies in battles, companionship and/or fellowship between one's traveling companions, colleagueship between peoples in one's working place... etc. So, friendship is not the only non-romance relationship available between people.

    To tell the truth, I don't see any kind of "maturity" after Johto saga. Even Ash may be injured or at some critical moment, but that doesn't make a scene "maturer" or anything. Even in many other Kodomo fictional works, characters are allowed to be injured severely if one encountered some accident or disaster.
    Fair enough. The maturity of the anime started to fade after Johto for me, some of it was left in the first season of AG, and post that it's grown more kodomo and less shounen, IMO. :)

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    I would definitely say that while it is directed towards a younger audience, there's more to it. No matter how recycled the "say goodbye to a good friend/until we meet again" thing feels, its very relevant to life. I watched Gliscor's departure episode (for the first time in a good while) the other day and im not gonna lie, I got slightly emotional. They still do a good job with it, in my mind. Ya know, sometimes those close to you have to go down a separate path and even though it may not be easy, sometimes its for the best and the positive memories and hopes of the future always stay alive and well.

    Then you have the Paul rivalry, which I find extremely relevant to life. Im sure a lot of fans have that 'polar opposite' in their life they can relate to. And I think the rivalry did a good job of showing that you may not always one up that person, but if you believe in yourself and stay true to the path you feel is right, regardless of how much they might press you on it, you can always prosper in the end. I know you can make the argument there are plenty of animes/cartoons like that, but its Pokemon, for some this is the only anime they watch haha.

    There are plenty of things like that imo. Even today with characters like N..

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by GibleKidd View Post
    I would definitely say that while it is directed towards a younger audience, there's more to it. No matter how recycled the "say goodbye to a good friend/until we meet again" thing feels, its very relevant to life. I watched Gliscor's departure episode (for the first time in a good while) the other day and im not gonna lie, I got slightly emotional. They still do a good job with it, in my mind. Ya know, sometimes those close to you have to go down a separate path and even though it may not be easy, sometimes its for the best and the positive memories and hopes of the future always stay alive and well.

    Then you have the Paul rivalry, which I find extremely relevant to life. Im sure a lot of fans have that 'polar opposite' in their life they can relate to. And I think the rivalry did a good job of showing that you may not always one up that person, but if you believe in yourself and stay true to the path you feel is right, regardless of how much they might press you on it, you can always prosper in the end. I know you can make the argument there are plenty of animes/cartoons like that, but its Pokemon, for some this is the only anime they watch haha.

    There are plenty of things like that imo. Even today with characters like N..
    For sure, there are still SOME emotional moments in the newer seasons. IMO, there aren't as much, though.

    Ash getting Chimchar from Paul, Gliscor's departure, Dawn's departure, and Ash remembering his best moments with Charizard spring to mind for Sinnoh and Unova.

    Hoenn had a TON of them: I'm not going to lie, that moment where Ash is sleeping besides his Pikachu is really sweet, and things like that are truly missing into today's Pokemon seasons. That true, genuine emotion you can see behind the characters. The depth has gone way downhill, IMO.

    Kanto-Johto had the most, IMO, and for the most part came off as the most believable to me.
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    If it is aimed at kids it eals with some pretty dark themes but it is a ell known idea that Japanese kids are more mature than western audiences whether i believe that personally i don't know

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    There are some pretty dark things you can find in Pokemon once you search far enough and deep enough, but it's probably overlooked by most Western children. The Original Series had the most mature themes to it, with EP001 being one of the saddest I know of. (And M01). But I guess they toned the maturity down since then and have not made much. And the original series sparked a billion shippers.


    It would be nice if they did a Pokemon special with a more mature setting once in a while...

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserLugia View Post
    There are some pretty dark things you can find in Pokemon once you search far enough and deep enough, but it's probably overlooked by most Western children. The Original Series had the most mature themes to it, with EP001 being one of the saddest I know of. (And M01). But I guess they toned the maturity down since then and have not made much. And the original series sparked a billion shippers.


    It would be nice if they did a Pokemon special with a more mature setting once in a while...
    I've seen the original series multiple times and it really doesn't have mature themes in it. There are dark aspects in the franchise in general from the basic idea of children being sent out to a world full of potentially dangerous monsters and various criminal organizations to some of the Pokedex entries, but I don't think there are a lot of mature themes in any of the various anime series.

    As for the question, I would say that the Pokemon anime is a children's show. That has been the case since day one and I haven't really seen a change in that regard. I don't think that the original series was different in this area. The show's main focus is on children and how to appeal to them. People older than the target audience can enjoy a show aimed at children without any deep themes or high quality writing. DP had the best writing out of all of the series so far in my opinion and it was still definitely a children's show.
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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    Oh yeah, it's definitely marketed at kids. That's been said lots of times by the writers, usually in response to disbanding romantic ships with Ash. I don't really see any dark themes, at least not any that kids couldn't comprehend. Usually a show that accounts for the adult demographic has some mature content, whether it be just little jokes that the younger views wouldn't understand. A good examply of that in a kids show is Spongebob Square Pants. It's essentially a kids show but it realises that it has become a franchise big enough to scale all age groups. I see no evidence of that acknowledgement in Pokemon.

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    Default Re: Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

    The OS has the most mature feeling behind it, despite being one of the more immature arcs itself.

    Okay, I know what you're thinking..."that doesn't make any sense."

    There was actual DEPTH to the characters in this arc. You can really feel their pain and if put in a similar situation, they really acted like one would have, IMO. I got plenty of emotion from it myself. *shrugs*
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