Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Post Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    This question sparked my interest upon hearing how some people were starting to call Iris a Mary Sue simply due the fact she owns such a powerful Pokémon early on.

    But lets look into the BW trio more to see which character has least flaws.

    Is it Ash, Iris or Cilan?

    --

    I feel that Ash is the character with most flaws while Cilan is the one with the least flaws, or should I say, none flaws at all. What do you guys think?

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    Princess of Sinnoh martianmister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    It's Iris. And no, she isn't a Mary Sue. Beating 100 pokemon isn't something unfeasible for a trainer.
    1. Satoshi/Ash Ketchum: 801 episodes
    2. Team Rocket: 736 episodes
    3. Takeshi/Brock: 633 episodes
    4. Kasumi/Misty: 282 episodes
    5. Hikari/Dawn: 201 episodes
    6. Haruka/May: 197 episodes
    7. Masato/Max: 192 episodes
    8. Iris: 141 episodes
    9. Dent/Cilan: 138 episodes
    10. Kenji/Tracey: 44 episodes

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    怪盗キッド Kaitou Kid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Yeah, Iris is such a Mary-Sue because she and Excadrill one-shotted a bunch of no name fodder characters when they were younger. God forbid she actually beat Drayden, then her Mary-Sue levels would shoot through the roof! Damn her for beating up a bunch of never to be seen again background characters just for plot purposes!

    Hmm thinking about it, I'd say Cilan. Iris is definitely way more flawed than he is and Ash is Ash so....
    Last edited by Kaitou Kid; 3rd June 2011 at 07:48 AM.
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    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    I think that Iris is presented with the most flaws (apparent insecurities, Pokemon that don't listen to her...) to make her look weak, and develop over time.

    Cilan has the least flaws. I can only recall his flaws being his stubborn attitude during BW014, and having ugly hair. Correct me if I'm wrong, I just don't recall any other flaws.
    Afrojisiac-19 likes this.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Maybe because he doesn't have any?

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    Load of Belloni
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    It's gotta be Dent who has the most flaws. There's just too many to count.

    - Green hair. Nobody likes a guy who can't abide by the rules.

    - Green hair that looks like grass. In a world where you can't take 2 steps without stepping into a Deerling, that ain't good.

    - He's a slob. Guy can't even change out of his work clothes. After originally working in presumably hot kitchen no less. Eurgh!

    - He's obsessed with food. And it‘s gone straight to his hips.

    - Seems to have anger management issues and an irrational hatred of leaves.

    - He’s an attention seeker. All the sparkles and flamboyant poses are hard to ignore, and thus evidence of his underlying insecurities.

    - Has a poor grasp of the concept of time. ‘It’s detective time’? Um, no Dent. It was 11:23 am.

    - His name is 'Dent'. So presumably, he has Dental Flaws.

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    It's Fishing Time~ JennaJayfeather's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    I'm just going to say this:



    Ok that's it. I'm leaving before I get annoyed by something (so far nothing has...I'm actually laughing at the posts but yeah, these kinds of discussions ALWAYS bother me and that's due to ANOTHER FORUM that's not a Pokemon one.)

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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    I'm just being realistic. Next time people call Iris a Mary Sue or a flawless character, they should really look more into Cilan. :)
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    Ice Master. AshK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Quick quesiton: what is a Mary Sue?

    The least flawed out of the three has to be Cilan because he is the reasonable one in the group and he only acts weird when his food gets destroyed or some of his cooking tools gets stolen .

    Ash is the most flawed imo. I know I know, I am an anti B/W Ash type of guy you can quote me on that. But he was a perfect character (okay maybe overexagerated but a major improvement from first 5 seasons) for 8 years (AG and D/p, imo) and developed so well from his earlier days, and they noticeably and obviously took that away in favour of a "fresh start" whatever that's supposed to mean. But enough of my ranting, Ash really doesn't have THAT many flaws but compared to Cilan and Iris there are probably a few more. Iris is not perfect, but only her Ash bashing and village superstitions are a problem to me, thats it.
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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    I think Mary Sue would be a character who has no problems, weaknesses however and easily overcomes any obstacle.

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    It's Fishing Time~ JennaJayfeather's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    I'm just being realistic. Next time people call Iris a Mary Sue or a flawless character, they should really look more into Cilan. :)
    T_T but I don't like calling people Dento a Gary Stu. It brings back bad memories of some of my other lovable characters...like Leafpool (Warrior Cats)...Yellow (PokeSpe)..Ruby (PokeSpe)...

    But I do get what you're saying. I normally don't mess with Iris threads, she's one of my favorites but I just don't like debating. I'm just drawn to Dento threads...and honestly the ones on Serebii are giving me nightmares D= It's ALMOST as bad as the time when I found out he was/is/almost part of the Shadow Triad in Pokemon Special!! I COULDN'T LOOK AT HIM THE SAME WAY!! It was terrible ;_;

    I like Iris and stuff, but I don't take things to heart with her character. When people call out Dento on something it bugs me...

    (Ok now I'm leaving for real...maybe not XD I thought I died in the Detective thread anyways..I must be a ghost =o)

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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Dento is awesome, but that's about it. People don't need him to have issues to like and support his character which is kinda sad when you look at Iris, since she's also funny and interesting as well. :/
    Last edited by Tsutarja; 3rd June 2011 at 01:19 PM.
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    Registered User Afrojisiac-19's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Dento is the one with the least flaws...He's been presented as someone with few, if ANY flaws at all...Despite his charms, it doesn't make him very relatable as a character, no internal conflict, no obstacles to overcome, no serious problems to deal with that will hinder his growth...That's why I prefer Iris...she's relatable, and has issues that need to be dealt with...If it's anyone who is a Mary Sue, Dento fits that description very well.

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    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Technically, one can also be considered a Mary Sue/Gary Stu if they have flaws, but are rarely - if ever - acknowledged by the canon cast. I know of at least one other character that fits this mold to a tee; riddled with flaws, but when she nearly committed global genocide because some guy wouldn't return her feelings (this is the alleged main heroine, mind you), she suffered practically no consequences afterward. Maybe a slap on the wrist or something. That there, I believe, constitutes as some form of a Mary Sue.

    Thankfully, Iris isn't an offender on a global scale, but I think she generally has the same thing going on with her: she has a variety of flaws, most of which are painfully obvious... and yet Iris pretty much gets away with her behavior. Even her most recent episode, aside from her needless multiple past victories, they made out the whole thing to be more Excadrill's fault than Iris'... and they completely ignore the fact that Iris, despite her vows, hasn't been seen doing anything to get through to Excadrill until that episode. This was a perfect opportunity for Iris to acknowledge her flaws, but instead it was all shoved on Excadrill and a misunderstanding and blah blah blah.

    Point is, calling Iris a Mary Sue these days isn't entirely unfounded.

    Anyway, Ash has come a long way and a lot of his errors are the cause of bad writing anyway, so I'd put him in the middle. Cilan is easily the least-flawed, but then again he's a mentor figure who I assume Ash is to look up to, so his archetype doesn't benefit from being flawed all to hell. Given that Cilan has a good amount of focus coming up, I'm sure some sort of flaw will make its presence known, but overall Cilan's lack of flaws don't exactly bother me.
    martianmister likes this.

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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of the BW trio, which character has least/most flaws?

    Because characters need issues and problems to overcome so we can fully support and root for them throughout their development and storyline.

    Yes, Cilan is funny and interesting. Also yes, he is getting boring. I do sincerely hope we see him having problems with something because so far his life has been amazing. A-rank Sommelier? Great at fishing and solving mysteries? Always has an upper hand at battles? I know he's a mentor, but give me something!
    EternallyAnna likes this.

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