How do you feel about Ash/Satoshi capturing so many Pokemon?

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    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default How do you feel about Ash/Satoshi capturing so many Pokemon?

    Ash has been catching quite a lot of Pokemon this saga. How do you feel about this? Is it fresh to see his team being rotated? Or will so many Pokemon stunt the character development of others?
    Last edited by Musashi; 2nd September 2011 at 05:51 PM.

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    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    It's sort of a fresh concept... I mean, Paul had been rotating his team throughout DP, which ended up being a major plot point when Ash was determined to take him down with the six he had and stuck with that. So it's a little jarring to see Ash himself rotate after all that, but I do think this is going to hinder the development of a lot of Pokemon. I'm also willing to bet Oshawott will never get rotated out because they're pretty blatant about whoring him out, so even with rotating I'm sure they'll play favorites and the rest will get shafted... it'll just be a lot more Pokemon than usual getting shafted this time.

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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    It's a change of pace but not necessarily a good one. I think the characters and development will suffer all round and it will
    probably be harder to grow fond of his team if he does keep rotating.

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    I'm Alive The Puppetmaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    At first, because he's never tried consistently rotating his Pokémon before, I thought the idea was interesting. However, as time passes and very few members of his team actually receive battle time and development, I'm starting to like this strategy less and less. Because he captures more Pokémon, there are less opportunities for them all to participate in gym battles and time to learn new moves in believable manners, and we, the audience, cannot as easily become emotionally invested in their progresses. The only one so far that has the "full package" (personality, battles, screen time) is Oshawott, and adding more and more Pokémon isn't helping the others also attain this ideal status.

    Tl;dr - I like the idea but dislike the way the writers are handling it. It also doesn't help that there are conflicting types on his team.

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    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Puppetmaster View Post
    At first, because he's never tried consistently rotating his Pokémon before, I thought the idea was interesting. However, as time passes and very few members of his team actually receive battle time and development, I'm starting to like this strategy less and less. Because he captures more Pokémon, there are less opportunities for them all to participate in gym battles and time to learn new moves in believable manners, and we, the audience, cannot as easily become emotionally invested in their progresses. The only one so far that has the "full package" (personality, battles, screen time) is Oshawott, and adding more and more Pokémon isn't helping the others also attain this ideal status.
    This is my opinion as well. It works well in theory to have him catch more than 6 pokémon to bring in more variety and therefore no fall into the "Hoenn trap" as a region where Satoshi is solely using new pokémon. But in practice, it kinda falls flat in my opinion, and for many reasons.

    1- The choice of pokémon.

    More specifically Kurumiru and Gamagaru, in that Satoshi already has a grass type and a water type on his team, so it fails to bring the diversity that it's supposed to bring. Kurumayu is a good example of that. On Satoshi's team, you have Tsutarja, with a great personality, cool backstory, whereas Kurumayu has displayed neither. Tsutarja also has Leaf Storm and uses Leaf Blade by rolling itself in a ball and throwing itself at the opponent, whereas Kurumayu has Razor Leaf and Energy Ball, that are essentially the same attacks, but less impressive, so there's really no point there. And while Kurumayu and Gamagaru both have secondary typings, the truth is, those typings are also found on plenty of other pokémon who don't share a type with anyone on Satoshi's team and actually bring that diversity which is the point of having Satoshi catch more pokémon.

    2. The developpement and personality of the reserves

    I alluded to it above but the personality of some of these reserves is very uninteresting and inexistant. Most of them are already strong, don't really have any character flaw, anything to overcome, any problems, aren't shown really bonding with Satoshi... so why are they even there? To me, the personality, the memorability factor is really important. Some of my favourite pokémon were never really shown to be that strong battlers or had plenty of wins, they were just really entertaining, had a strong personality, and brought a comedy and a lightheartedness to the show that I don't really get from the reserves Satoshi caught in Isshu

    3. Screen time and battles.

    There's a set number of important battles, there's a set numbers of episodes until the League and when you take out all the episodes when Ash's pokémon aren't featured in a big way or where Ash only uses Pikachu, the Iris episodes, the Dento episodes, the Rocket episodes, when you consider that Mijumaru gets so much more focus then everyone else.... you're sorta left with 6-7 fighting for what's left. A lot of the pokémon are gonna get shafted; aren't gonna get a lot of battles, so I'm afraid we'll reach the League and see Ash with a team of underdevelopped pokémon with no real personality, with no real diversity, with nothing that really makes me excited to see them there.

    So yeah... for me it's good in theory, but the poor execution and poor choices by the writers really make it uninteresting.
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    Aroma Guardian Gracidea's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    It is most defiantly great seeing all of these captures, but they seem a bit unnecessary because most of his Pokemon at the moment haven't really battled that much and the more he catches the less screen time they will get.

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    Not even my final form GreatLiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    I'm at odds with it really. As a kid I was always wanting him to catch more and more pokemon, and he really never did. Now I'm at a point where I care more about development of the characters than just hella captures, but that part of me that wanted to see captures 10 years ago is definitely pleased. There are a lot of cool new pokemon introduced in this game, and since they're still fresh really it's sorta exciting to see him catching them.

    The exact pokemon they're giving him aren't exactly my first choice, so that's I feel what's bothering me more. Kurumiru's such a bland bug. A bunch of the bug types introduced in this game are really quite interesting, they've just got dual types that are already covered by pokemon on his team. I'd have loved to see a meraruba or bachura, but no, the gave him the bland bug. Multiple pokemon sharing the same type isn't much of a problem to me, as long as the pokemon themselves are different. Not even if secondary types are different, but just the pokemon themselves.

    Gamagaru and Mijumaru are extremely different, so both of them being able to spit water doesn't deter from either for me. Miju's mainly been using shell blade and aqua jet. Gama's looking to have longer range special stuff. It's good so far, of course that's only basing it off of it's capture episode, and that's the other problem.

    The rotation isn't working out. Plain and simple. They're just limited in how much they can rotate. They won't ever rotate out Pikachu, and likely not the starter either, so that only leaves two pokemon, and one of those slots is currently being held by a baby they don't want to abandon just yet probably with the excuse it's too young. So now we've got 3 pokemon, and likely more coming on shortly all vying for a single spot. The fact that none of them get much focus when they do show up doesn't help either. It's not Kanto, but the rotation isn't as good as it likely could be.

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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    I think it's grating, only because of the way it's being handled. On the other hand, I LOVE the concept of constantly swapping so that you've got Main Team 1 and Main Team 2 - which is what I think the anime is going to pull by the time we get to the league. HOWEVER, it's not cool at all that some "reserves" are getting literally no development at all, and are just stuck saying their names and looking out-of-place in group shots. I was typically bored to death with the same 6/7 Pokemon because there wasn't much variation, and I'm happy to see it. There are some Pokemon that are definitely more interesting when the camera is trained on them - Hikozaru --> Moukazaru --> Goukazaru, for eg., and YMMV on this one but I love Mijumaru. I wish less focus could be placed on COTD's because it's seriously an injustice to the Pokemon if we know more about a COTD than we know about the Pokemon Satoshi keeps on hand. Some of the reserves just aren't interesting and there's nowhere really for them to go.

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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    I don't understand the appeal of rotation other than seeing Ash use different pokemon. I also don't understand why Ash catching so many pokemon is so important because either way I think of it, their purpose is moot. They aren't going to be seen much. It's a step up from Kanto, but it's definitely not a step up from DP. The main argument I have, though is that ASH ALREADY HAS RESERVES, WHY DOESN'T HE USE THEM? I'm sure a lot of people have asked this question before, but my reasoning is different. I don't mind if Ash uses new pokemon in a new region and trains them within the story arc so that they can be added to Ash's vast pool of pokes later. It maddens me that they would just shoot the pokes Ash already has just so that he can have a pool just from Unova for the league. (there is no denying this is their intention) You may point me to Hoenn, but this is different. Why should Ash have to prove himself by training an army of pokes by the league? It would be a tremendous feat, but I don't believe the writers can do it and make it believable. He only trained 5 pokes for Hoenn, and we currently are looking at 7 pokes in Unova. The butter is spread too thin. Perhaps they will take their time and focus on the pokes later, but that is yet to be seen. The writers can't even give equal attention to 5 pokes, let alone 7.
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    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    I do remember getting frustrated with Ash back in Kanto for his apparent reluctance to call upon Krabby or Muk (prior to the league), though that was largely because he had a spare spot on his team throughout the latter half of the saga, and I felt that he might as well make use of it. Okay, so it was established in its capture episode why he didn't particularly want to travel with Muk, but I couldn't see what his excuse was with Krabby. With hindsight, it may have been because, with his already having Squirtle, the writers felt that a second water type would just be redundant (though Krabby does have access to a lot of moves that Squirtle doesn't, like Vicegrip and Crabhammer, so he didn't have to be a complete carbon copy), though I'm more tempted to think that Krabby may just have been a victim of not being considered "marketable" enough.

    I guess that after four sagas of giving Ash a static team, the writers figured there was no harm in trying something different. Plus, with the contest-competing co-star gone they may have been looking for a way of keeping lots of cute pokemon on the cast whilst not compromising on the bigger battlers. I agree that they are a bit restricted as to what they can actually do with it in practice, though, given that they'll presumably want the four mascots to be on hand at all times, and Scraggy also seems to be getting a free ride at the moment (possibly because he's also considered a highly marketable poke), which frankly doesn't always make sense in-universe. Ash may have had his personal reasons for wanting to battle Burgh with Sewaddle, but it does seem a bit odd that he would rotate out Tranquill before fighting a bug-type gym leader, and not Scraggy, who wouldn't be able to participate in said battle at all. Sure, Scraggy's only a baby, and Ash might not want to leave him alone for long periods, but I find it hard to believe that someone at Juniper's lab couldn't have taken care of him for a couple of hours while he was battling Burgh. :P
    Last edited by garrison-san; 31st May 2011 at 01:39 PM.

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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    It is surely fresh and new concept which we havent really get a chance to see before.Pokemon rotation can act as double edged sword with possible consequence existing in fact of writers having too many pokemon on their hands to develop them all properly with some ending up shafted in favor of others receiving more.
    That being said it wouldnt be first time that Ash pokemon end up neglected not getting any development,but approach they seem to take in BW implies how they are trying to distribute equally screen time between UNova team giving to each menger some time to shine.

    So far Ash has 7 new pokemon being obligatory starters like Snivy,Tepig,Oshawott,one flying bird type which is predictable to happen like Tranquill being followed by another water pokemon Palpitoad,Swadloon which covers big and grass types and Scraggy being rather oddball due to being dark/fighting type.

    At this point rotation was more or less successful(give or take)with switching between Tranquill and Sewaddle(now Swadloon)bearing sme fruits adding for diversity giving to Ash more options to chose from in his battles.

    With so many pokemon in party some will probably receive less development but people are in reality paying too much attention to character development of pokemon forgetting how to enjoy in them.
    On positive side unlike static team Ash used to have through Hoenn or DP writers finally decided to add some diversity giving to viewers opportunity to see more of Ash pokemon being engaged in battles having essentially two teams from which he could chose from being common pracrtice for many trainers to do strenghtening up their pokemon teams(like Paul or Gary for example did).
    This practice didnt happened since Johto in Ash case where some change to his team was provided by having mix of old and new pokemon which were gradually being replaced by new members being refreshing.Granted that didnt worked out very well for Johto pokemon but to be fair since than writers had 9 years to improve so better treatment of Ash Unova pokemon is pretty much a given thing.

    Currently there are more positive than negative sides in pokemon rotation with writers testing out something new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    More specifically Kurumiru and Gamagaru, in that Satoshi already has a grass type and a water type on his team, so it fails to bring the diversity that it's supposed to bring. Kurumayu is a good example of that. On Satoshi's team, you have Tsutarja, with a great personality, cool backstory, whereas Kurumayu has displayed neither. Tsutarja also has Leaf Storm and uses Leaf Blade by rolling itself in a ball and throwing itself at the opponent, whereas Kurumayu has Razor Leaf and Energy Ball, that are essentially the same attacks, but less impressive, so there's really no point there. .
    I disagree,diversity doesnt always comes from having different types,.Swadloon and Snivy may have been both grass types but unlike other member of team Swadloon is dual type being both grass and bug which brings variety in team having pokemon which has access to alternate bug techniques.
    He also has personality contrary to some belief with his anger issues being possible to describe as flaw in its character showing to be competent in battling having good move set.

    Personally i find Swadloon to be a lot more interesting than Snivy is at this point having good move set,with some bonding between him and his trainer being showed at first being apathetic toward Ash who later earned his thrust.Snivy personality while good was never particularly appealing to me with her issues of being overly confident finding ASh alternate grass pokemon to be more unique.

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    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    Quote Originally Posted by garrison-san View Post
    Sure, Scraggy's only a baby, and Ash might not want to leave him alone for long periods, but I find it hard to believe that someone at Juniper's lab couldn't have taken care of him for a couple of hours while he was battling Burgh. :P
    I bet Ash's just being overprotective. Watch Scraggy get separation anxiety when he's inevitably ditched at the end of the saga.

    I like the rotation. It made Tranquill's appearances stand out more to me.

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    Collects stuff Thingamajig's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    With what happened just now, I think it's getting to be a bit much. We're going basically at double the speed we did through DP, and while there's no Dawn to focus on - it doesn't seem that time's really going into giving the B-team a personality. So far it's just been Pikachu, the starters and Scraggy and occasional appearences by the other 3 (now 4). Hopefully he's done capturing half of the Unova dex for a while so there can be some focus on the 9 Pokemon he's got on his team right now.

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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    I do like Ash capturing many different types of Pokemon. Know he can defend against any other Pokemon.
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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you feel about Ash capturing so many Pokemon?

    I don't really care. Its obvious only the starters and Scraggy will get a lot of screentime anyway, with everything else just being thowaway battle machines. That's how I see it.

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