How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

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Thread: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

  1. #1
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    I thought the topic was interesting and while the World Tournament Junior Cup hasn't started yet, and opinions may change in the process, we can still make comparaisons based on what we know about the two tournaments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Comparing this tournament to the Wallace Cup is an insult IMO because at least its purpose was reasonable and made sense, getting Dawn out of her rut losing streak and re-invigorating her Coordinator's spirit. This tournament serves to... coddle Trip, who has had NO screentime since Donamite,
    I agree and disagree with this. First of all, I totally agree about the Mikuri Cup being great because it served as a culmination of an arc that started in Yosuga City. During this arc, Hikari was broken down as a character, slowly built herself up by learning more about contests, getting more battles under her belt and working on getting over two flaws she was established to have since the beginning of DP. Her overemphasis on moves rather than Pokémon, as in a flash over substance, and her lack of confidence that lead her to quit things at which she didn't believe in herself (like how she released Pachirisu because she didn't believe in herself enough to be its trainer.) The way the cup was written is geared towards Hikari exorcising her issues. First up, with her appeal showing her growth with Eteboth and getting more and more confident with each battle until she wins, realizing she can do it and be great if she believes in herself. Not only was this a very compelling journey, but there's actual substance in her victory.

    From what we know of the World Tournament Junior Cup, there is no such substance. With the Mikuri cup, the writers built upon solid foundations they had previously laid out. Here, the foundations are less solid and in one case, inexistent. I think Shooti needed to win this tournament and Satoshi needed to go far, not only to reignite their rivalry and hype the League, but to further define how Adeku and Satoshi's philosophy clashes with Shooti. So I don't mind that the tournament seems to be building up to these two, because it can take their story to the next level, and they both need it. They have the perfect occasion to really flesh out Shooti, and I don't mind them taking it. That being said, while I think that Shooti and Satoshi making it to the finals is justified, and hopefully it'll be more compelling than their previous encounters, the way the rest of the tournament seems to be going down looks to be complete nonsense, namely Iris.

    Contrarily to Hikari in the Mikuri Cup, Iris has no foundations. Last weeks episode was about how much she doesn't have flaws, is better than everyone else and his so skilled at training Dragons. There's nowhere to go with a character like that, except to create faux-drama where she's in trouble but it's not her fault, there's no consequences and it gets resolved super quickly throwing two characters under the bus in the process. There's just absolutely no reason to have Iris get pass the first round with a Pokémon she hasn't trained, just caught fully evolved (not because she defeated it but because it realized how much of a pure radiant saint Iris is and wants to throw away his life as a wild Pokémon to be her pet fully evolved Dragon). Had Iris trained and evolved her pokémon like everyone else, then maybe, but this is just flying in the face of the whole message of the show, it isn't earned, it isn't the result of anything. It's just Iris getting once getting rewarded for sitting on her hands doing jack. She really has no business beating Langley or Hikari and that we're once again focusing on her character, when the writers really have shown nothing in the form of a story for her, instead of developing the characters who need more spotlight is just disappointing. That's something else the Mikuri Cup did: it didn't allow characters who had no business getting far go far, like Satoshi losing in the quarterfinals to a nobody. But in Iris' case, it's not the culmination of anything, it's not leading to anything, it's just gratuitous glorification that has no purpose and just kills this tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    Regarding the Wallace Cup, I felt that it was handled horribly in getting Dawn out of her losing streak and re-invigorating her Coordinator spirit. She managed to beat May and win the Wallace Cup, which I thought was incredibly cheap. With Trip, we know that he got many gym badges like how Ash managed to do in Kanto as a beginner.
    Why exactly is it cheap for Hikari to beat Haruka? With your parallel to Shooti, it seems like you're saying that it was cheap because Hikari didn't have as many experience or as many robbons/accomplishments/wins as Haruka, which I always found to be a weak argument. In any competition, people with various degrees of experience are going to compete, but there's a reason why we don't just hand over the trophy to the person who's been doing this longest or has the most wins, there's a reason why we have the matches, because anything can happen and upsets are a possibility. The way the battle unfolds is a better indicator of how much deserved the win was, and in the Mikuri Cup, Hikari and Haruka both gave each other trouble and both looked really good in the battle, improvising and turning the other's combinations against them, pushing themselves in a very tight match with a tight finish. They didn't dumb down Haruka for that match, they didn't portray Hikari as being a god-like coordinator, it was just a really believable and riveting end to a riveting tournament.

    Plus, they made sure that Haruka really had her time to shine both in defeat, but also in the appeal round and in her match against Nozomi. They really did her justice, which doesn't look to be the case with Hikari in the Junior Cup. Rather, they threw her a couple of unfinished ties with Dent and Satoshi and what looks to be a quick match against a CotD in the first round, and a second round loss against Iris, that really doesn't feel earned story-wise.

    Iris here only technically beat Dawn in the previous episode because her Dragonite did everything as a wild Pokemon.
    Funnily enough, when Hikari had no control of Manmoo in a contest, she lost that contest because she wasn't ready for it. She had to work on Manmoo's contest style more. Here, there's no consequences to Kairyu's disobedience, there's nothing really happening with it and it gets resolve during the battle against Hikari. That the writers introduce a problem, but don't allow it to have any consequences nullifies the problem and any development. There's no change to Iris' character since she's already a Dragon Master, already knows everything there is to know about Dragons and only has to wait until Kairyu realizes he can't win without her. Yawn.

    Overall, I think the Mikuri Cup was handled much better than the Junior Cup looks to be.

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    Cuter in real life Iteru's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    World Cup is over now, so approved.

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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    Well there is one major difference that I noticed between the two. The Wallace Cup was not unbearable to watch...
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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    The Wallace Cup actually gave great and memorable screentime to Dawn, May, Ash and Zoey. All 4 characters had their triumphs and good battles. Not a single character was glorified over the other even when they won, as every match was close and properly done.

    The Junior Cup on the other hand screwed everyone over for blatant glorification of Iris and Trip.
    ArginX, Mikuri, Shinneth and 8 others like this.

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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    Not to mention that the conclusion to the Mikuri cup actually led somewhere. Paul caught Ash participating on TV, which added more fuel to their dislike for each other when accusations about hypocrisy were thrown.

    From what it's looking, the Junior Cup won't really build upon the Ash/Trip "rivalry"

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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    I don't mind trip winning I mind that people have a double standard whennit come to who does the winning.

  7. #7
    Boulder Trainer Mikuri's Avatar Bulbapedia Junior Administrator
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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    - Both competitions have the word "cup" in their names;
    - Both competitions have the participation of the previous series' girl;
    - Both competitions have the debut of a character introduced in the previous generation (Wallace, Caitlin);

    The similarities end here. The Wallace Cup was great, the Junior Cup was crap.

    You know what made the Wallace Cup so good? Dawn's depression arc; we saw her having a hard time in her career as a Coordinator, we saw her doing her best to train her Pokémon, and we saw her getting over it. We did not get anything like that in the Junior Cup, but we got Iris, Trip, and their Pokémon being glorified for no real reason, so in the writer's mind we should be happy.

    Iris' victories did not have any meaning, and I'm not saying this because she captured Dragonite one day before the competition, but because she was not in sync with it, she did not have to do anything or overcome anything, she just had to watch Dragonite do all the work and be praised by Dawn and Cynthia, and this is not entertaining and does nothing for her character. On Trip's side of things, seeing him easily knocking his opponents out after losing in the first round of both the Club Battle and Clubsplosion was so convenient and boring. How he suddenly get so strong? Serperior defeating Fire-type Pokémon with SolarBeam only served to add more insult to injury.

    And the characters have not had the chance to shine. I remember that in the Wallace Cup, everyone had good moments. The battles were balanced, and no one had to be thrown under the bus so that the other could be glorified. In the Junior Cup, Burgundy was treated like a COTD, Georgia's strongest Pokémon fell to a ThunderPunch, and the only battle that Dawn won was against a nobody and lasted 2 seconds. That's terrible, terrible writing. It was way too rushed.

    I honestly don't know what I was expecting, the last two competitions were a pain and I should not be surprised. At this point, I can say that one-episode competitions, such as the Hearthome Collection and the PokéRinger, have made a better job entertaining me.

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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    I said it once, and I'll say it again:

    When characters need to be dumbed down just for the sake of elevating other characters, bad writing isn't even the word to describe it. It's shitty writing. No way, shape, or form is any show or book or novel, at least any good one, suppose to sacrifice other characters just so they can throw one that lacks a bone and such.

    No way, no matter how you slice it, that is wrong, and from an anime standpoint especially I think its immoral. The Junior Cup screams this and for that reason it definitely IS not on my rewatch list. EVER.

    The Wallace Cup was marvelous as Wallace would put it, especially when you compare it to the Junior Cup. May had a decent cameo, and yes, she did lose her battle against Dawn. It's important to realize though that she did it with Glaceon, her most recent addition and Dawn was in desperate need of a win. On top of that, it was only by like, half a point?! Brilliant.

    May vs Zoey was nice, and so was Ash's battle against Kyle. The only thing I would have changed was Ambipom's lack of a battle since it was released later on anyway, Piplup didn't need that rushed win, but it's fine.

    The Junior Cup was a trainwreck and almost unbearable to watch. Dawn, Georgia and Burgundy were screwed COMPLETELY and if anyone knew their status on this show with the fanbase and as characters themselves, it looked very out of the blew. All because Iris got a Dragonite clearly due to her Champion status and Trip needed to be seen as a threat for the League. I just...whatever.

    I think it's also important to note, that there was a huge difference in the build-up for these tournaments as well:

    -Dawn was a struggling main character who everyone was itching to see make a comback after various attempts-Realistic
    -Iris was a character who needed to be knocked down a couple of pegs but wasn't because she was given a Dragonite without being battled and Axew learned a beyond powerful move-Unfair
    And Ash, well at least he wasn't a punching bag. His Krok evolved in the Junior Cup, however it took another mid-battle evolution for it to happen....give me a break.

    Overall the Wallace Cup, Whirl Cup, Tag Battle Arc, Princess Festival and every other pokemon contest or competition wins my vote compared to the Junior Cup.

    I never cared for Trip so him being glorified was just the last straw for me. I will say I still like Iris from a non-battling standpoint, because no matter how many perks she's been given I actually feel bad for her. Her Champion status in the games actually ruined her realistic status in the show.

    And to think, had Iris been a rival in the games or a side character and Trip was just the COTD he looked like every single time he appeared, this may have been a whole different saga, and dare I say it: a good one.

  9. #9
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    Although this is appearance wise only, I really liked the outfit changes in the Wallace Cup. Ash's Indiana Jones outfit was quite cool, and May's Arabian belly dancer outfit was probably the best outfit ever work by a female protagonist in the entire series.

    In the Junior Cup they wouldn't even give Dawn new clothes, what a waste.

  10. #10
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do the Mikuri Cup and the World Tournament Junior Cup compare to one another?

    I wouldn't know the answer to this question because I barely saw comparisons.

    For instance, one was battles, the other was contests.

    2. No champion challenge afterwards.

    3. Horrible battles.

    I'm sorry but there is very few comparisons and I don't like to compare them because of the way they were handled. Now the Clubsplosion was better and was more of a comparison to the Wallace Cup but not the latest one.

    There was alot of type disadvantage wins that I've never seen before. It was a little over the top if you ask me. Take the Tag Battle tournament for instance, Ash and Paul faced some disadvantages in the end but not most of the entire tournament. I also didn't like how some of the rivals were treated in the Junior Cup verses the Wallace Cup. Just because they have the word "Cup" in it, doesn't mean they were that compatable.
    Last edited by Caseydia; 15th September 2012 at 11:58 AM.
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