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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Maybe suddenly shifting from obvious inexperienced rookie Iris to gifted trainer Iris impacted whatever they were originally going with Axew as well.
    I don't know, if they're trying to show Dragon's are harder to raise or w/e. But Iris clearly seems like a better trainer when using her other Pokemon that are not Dragons. Axew has gotten destroyed in 2/3's of it's real battles (and was in the one it ended up winning as well), and it's still not trained as much as it could have. Dragonite hasn't won a battle yet under Iris' control, and was losing to Charizard. She lost terribly with the Fraxure she used in school against the other student's Altaria, after her whole Excadrill win streak story. It's odd because we saw Cameron using a Hydreigon like a pro, while destroying nearly half of Ash's team. Him using it without any kind of indication he had problems with it, makes me question the true difficulty of achieving Dragon Master status.
    Last edited by Masurao; 1st August 2013 at 07:50 PM.

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    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    I don't know, if they're trying to show Dragon's are harder to raise or w/e. But Iris clearly seems like a better trainer when using her other Pokemon that are not Dragons. Axew has gotten destroyed in 2/3's of it's real battles (and was in the one it ended up winning as well), and it's still not trained as much as it could have. Dragonite hasn't won a battle yet under Iris' control, and was losing to Charizard. She lost terribly with the Fraxure she used in school against the other student's Altaria, after her whole Excadrill win streak story. It's odd because we saw Cameron using a Hydreigon like a pro, while destroying nearly half of Ash's team. Him using it without any kind of indication he had problems with it, makes me question the true difficulty of achieving Dragon Master status.
    I'm not sure if they were trying to show that Dragon types are harder to raise. Iris has done extremely little with Axew over the course of the series and I'd chalk that up to her just being an inactive trainer on training her own Pokemon rather than anything about the difficulties in raising a Dragon type. Dragonite not getting a win under Iris' control is probably a combination of making up for being so ridiculously overpowered in the Junior Cup and Iris' skills not really being that good even when she's practically given a fully evolved Dragon type. Though, losing with the Fraxure after she had won nearly a hundred battles with Excadrill does give that impression. Given Cameron's intelligence, I can definitely see why you'd question the difficulty of achieving Dragon Master status. Iris having a harder time in battles with her Dragon Pokemon might be there just for tension and to give the idea that she has grown, even though I really don't think that she has, more than the idea that Dragons are harder to raise than other Pokemon.

  3. #588
    Registered User Ambipom666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Maybe suddenly shifting from obvious inexperienced rookie Iris to gifted trainer Iris impacted whatever they were originally going with Axew as well.
    I don't know, if they're trying to show Dragon's are harder to raise or w/e. But Iris clearly seems like a better trainer when using her other Pokemon that are not Dragons. Axew has gotten destroyed in 2/3's of it's real battles (and was in the one it ended up winning as well), and it's still not trained as much as it could have. Dragonite hasn't won a battle yet under Iris' control, and was losing to Charizard. She lost terribly with the Fraxure she used in school against the other student's Altaria, after her whole Excadrill win streak story. It's odd because we saw Cameron using a Hydreigon like a pro, while destroying nearly half of Ash's team. Him using it without any kind of indication he had problems with it, makes me question the true difficulty of achieving Dragon Master status.
    That's true, but Iris is generally portrayed to be fairly strong and good with dragons. When it comes to dragons, her psuedo-aura powers just serve to show how well she connects with them for example. Axew is pretty weak but it learned a couple of powerful moves because it's 'strong'. Dragonite did lose to Ash and Drayden, but the former was to re-ignite Ash and Trip's rivalry and the latter was because I suppose beating Drayden is supposed to be a monumental task. (since there are two other 8th gym leaders around, it's not like anybody is particularly hard-pressed to beat Drayden anyway.) Dragonite did beat Georgia and Dawn while being disobedient, and while Iris was disappointed with how it beat Georgia, I don't believe anybody other than Georgia actually thinks any less of Iris because of it. Plus, there's Iris being set up to be a gym leader, which being part of her occupation post-BW, is also supposed to show her skill as a trainer. And while Cameron is a huge idiot, I think the implication is that he's good-natured and very strong (just look at how he beat Ash 6-4!) which could possibly explain his skill with Hydreigon.

    While Iris isn't that a great of a trainer in my opinion, as far as the show is concerned she's nothing less than really skilled. Same with Cameron: He's ditzy but he's very strong! Same with Ash: He's practically objectively become a worse trainer than in DP, but the show doesn't dwell on it one bit.

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    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambipom666 View Post
    That's true, but Iris is generally portrayed to be fairly strong and good with dragons. When it comes to dragons, her psuedo-aura powers just serve to show how well she connects with them for example. Axew is pretty weak but it learned a couple of powerful moves because it's 'strong'. Dragonite did lose to Ash and Drayden, but the former was to re-ignite Ash and Trip's rivalry and the latter was because I suppose beating Drayden is supposed to be a monumental task. (since there are two other 8th gym leaders around, it's not like anybody is particularly hard-pressed to beat Drayden anyway.) Dragonite did beat Georgia and Dawn while being disobedient, and while Iris was disappointed with how it beat Georgia, I don't believe anybody other than Georgia actually thinks any less of Iris because of it. Plus, there's Iris being set up to be a gym leader, which being part of her occupation post-BW, is also supposed to show her skill as a trainer. And while Cameron is a huge idiot, I think the implication is that he's good-natured and very strong (just look at how he beat Ash 6-4!) which could possibly explain his skill with Hydreigon.
    I thought that her psuedo-aura powers was just used once with Dragonite to prove its innocence, but that was to show that she is even more gifted. Axew's learning overpowered moves is probably there to make Iris look better as opposed to making Axew strong. She lost to Drayden since defeating him would have been too unrealistic. Even Excadrill and Haxorus tying was extremely unbelievable. Georgia was the only one who had a reasonable reaction to Dragonite winning those matches, which isn't too surprising since the show tends to downplays or flat-out ignore Iris' flaws and problems. They want to make her look like a strong trainer to set up Iris being a Gym Leader, which wouldn't be too bad if her strength didn't feel forced and was more natural progression of her character throughout the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambipom666
    While Iris isn't that a great of a trainer in my opinion, as far as the show is concerned she's nothing less than really skilled. Same with Cameron: He's ditzy but he's very strong! Same with Ash: He's practically objectively become a worse trainer than in DP, but the show doesn't dwell on it one bit.
    Of course the show isn't going to make any of these characters look weak or dwell on how weaker Ash has become, even though both the match against Roxie and the Unova League in general is the closest we got to the writers admitting that he was a worse trainer. The show considers Iris to be a really skilled trainer, but it just comes off as forced and she is much weaker than the show would want the audience to believe.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I agree with all of what you said. I'm just saying that since Iris beat Georgia in the Junior Cup which seems to be the end of the line for Georgia, Iris is right and Georgia is wrong as far as the show is concerned :/

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  6. #591

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I don't think the show is above making characters seem weak. The recent battle Axew had made it look pathetic, and it didn't really make Iris seem like a Gym Leader worthy given it's lack of much training. If she's going to be a dragon-type gym leader she needs more than just Dragonite to rely on. It's just things like being a good "Dragon Master" get a bit muddled when you Iris and Cameron using their respective Dragons in nearly the exact same way. Namely, just trying to over-power their opponent with an onslaught of high-powered moves.

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    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambipom666 View Post
    I agree with all of what you said. I'm just saying that since Iris beat Georgia in the Junior Cup which seems to be the end of the line for Georgia, Iris is right and Georgia is wrong as far as the show is concerned :/
    That is sadly true. At the very least, it seems like the audience is suppose to be against Georgia and in favor of Iris, despite how many good points Georgia brings up about Iris's flaws and how weak they have made Iris.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao
    I don't think the show is above making characters seem weak. The recent battle Axew had made it look pathetic, and it didn't really make Iris seem like a Gym Leader worthy given it's lack of much training. If she's going to be a dragon-type gym leader she needs more than just Dragonite to rely on. It's just things like being a good "Dragon Master" get a bit muddled when you Iris and Cameron using their respective Dragons in nearly the exact same way. Namely, just trying to over-power their opponent with an onslaught of high-powered moves.
    That's one reason why Iris being Gym Leader worthy feels so forced. Axew looks pretty weak when it battles much more often than not and it has a serious lack of training to help it out. At this point, she's just going to rely on Dragonite, even though I agree she would need more if she is going to become a Dragon type Gym Leader. They haven't done a good job with explaining more about how to become a Dragon Master either.

  8. #593
    Bonded Forever Misty Calls Masquerain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I couldn't agree more with HM. I guess they expect us to side against Georgia since she's the rival/antagonist to Iris, but all she did was bring up a valid point. If she doesn't do anything wrong why should I side against her?

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