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  1. #511
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Too Much as others have said obviously. Lots of potential used in ALL...THE...WRONG...WAYS.

    I just realized something: If the writers were to throw a tournament out of the blue right now which included ALL of the main characters and their rivals, I'm ALMOST positive Iris would be the winner, if not at least Top 4 or runner up. Her Champion Status has done wonders against characters, for her pokemon, and for her positions in tournaments.

    Random yes, but the way the writers have handled Iris on a battling/pokemon level alone, I actually would believe that they'd let her defeat Paul, even if it's just one on one the writers would find someway to make it happen if they wanted all due to promotion which is just whack.

    I mean Iris could probably take on May's Blaziken and Misty's Gyrados with no problem at all because of her Champion status if she ever were to go up against them and the fact that Iris' character has such an immunity to where you can expect other characters to get screwed over at one point in this series but not with her, it's actually very sad.

    If Pokemon were a reality show, Iris would be the girl that always won immunity and got on everyone's nerves because she was still there for another week. People(the fans) wouldn't mind if she was playing fair but she never does. Therefore, people want her eliminated. That's how I look at all of the tournaments she's in.

    Is anyone else shocked she loss to Masomi?

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Ever since she won that first Don Battle Tournament is when things started to go sour for me. I wasn't even horribly annoyed with it at the time that she came to an understanding with her Doryuzu just in the nick of time for the tournament- it seemed like a series of fortunate events in her favor, and I was glad that she was finally able to get Doryuzu to listen to her again. But now that she is being handed a Kairyu for another tournament...I'm not a fan of this at all, and to me, it made her win in the past tournament look cheaper than it really should have been. I do my best to remain indifferent to what happens in the show and enjoy it for what it is (and most of the time I can just fine!) but it seemed like an easy solution to a long going problem. Iris wants to be a Dragon Master- and her goal is to evolve Kibago. Capturing a Kairyu is great and all for her in the long term, as a dragon master should familiarize herself with different dragons of course, but it would have been much more fulfilling if she had evolved Kibago instead. She technically has a fully evolved dragon Pokemon, but is no where closer to meeting her original goal, just some dumb luck. I don't think she will evolve Kibago because it's her mascot Pokemon and all, but I really wish he had evolved at least in to a Onondo by now.

    If Iris had entered the world tournament with a Ononokus that she had evolved from the baby Kibago we first saw her with in the series...well, I think the tournament would have been a whole lot easier to stomach.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I get why a disobedient dragon Pokemon would be the best for Iris right now, but I hope the disobedience doesn't end too qucikly before the competition is over. Because then it would seem as if though there would be no struggle on her part as a trainer to train with Dragonite seperately from a tournament while others are around. I'm just hoping someone could tell her off of using Dragonite so quick right when she just caught it instead of doing what Ash did like when he trained Scraggy a little after it hatched before entering it in that Clublosion or whatever it's called.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Driller678 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
    I fail to see why Dento/Cilan being left behind was such a big deal.
    It's not. As I said, it's the one moment I actually laughed in the episode. The point I was making wasn't that Dent should be at the centre of every episode, you're misrepresenting the point I was making. The point I was making was that every other character seemed to be portrayed as solely there to praise Iris, to be unnecessarily cruel or wrong in comparaison to Iris, or just plain useless until Iris shows them the way and they do exactly what she tells them to do. Everyone there was there only to make Iris look good and glorify her rather than each have their own purpose. They each have skills, knowledge that could have been useful in such a situation, yet they were all portrayed to be rather inept and wait for Iris to tell them how to solve the problem. In this episode, Satoshi, Hikari and Dent have no purpose, do not exist outside of Iris. Satoshi was extremely guilty of this in this episode. Satoshi that would usually jump at the idea of helping resolve the Kairyu situation seems to not care until Iris goes off her "Dragons aren't bad and wouldn't hurt anybody (except they kinda are since this whole situation was prompted by Kairyu picking fights with every powerful pokémon it meets endangering other pokémon and humans in the process)" speech. He tells the unnecessarily violent Junsa that they won't need her Pokémon because Iris is such a Dragon Master already that she can't fail. Cue him telling Iris, "there's absolutely nothing we can do to help somewhere in there until Iris spurs him on to look for clues that Kairyu decided to "protect the Mamepato" in that battle he started but that's totally not his fault. Cue broken aesop.

    While they'd normally each have skills that would have helped in this situation and personality traits that tell how they'd react, they're thrown out the window for Iris' sake rather than have everyone shine. The other characters were props in the Iris show, nothing more than that, for this episode.
    Same way everyone else is a prop for Cilan episodes, or Ash episodes. You singling out Iris just shows how unfairly you look at things. The episode was written for Iris and Dragonite and the plot was centered around them. You seem to have an issue understanding that.

    If you're looking for complete realism with the anime, you need to look somewhere else. This is a kids show in case you didn't know.
    I'll answer here since it doesn't pertain to the episode. Not everyone is a prop for Dent in his episodes, no more than in Satoshi episodes. Take the Pod episode for example, Dent beats Pod, but Pod beats Satoshi, whom Dent praises as being the inspiration for the tips he's giving Pod. Everyone's made to look good. The writers haven't made Dent into a paragon trainer, whom everyone praises all the time, in fact in most of his "focus episodes", he's the butt of the joke. I'm not complaining, it makes it entertaining. That's a good example of an episode that was written with addressing Dent's backstory and developing the whole sommelier thing, but didn't do it at the expense of anyone else. The writers have never hesitated to show Dent getting beaten, being goofy, being flawed, complimenting other character, etc. The same goes for Satoshi. Then you have other episodes like the Subway two-parter where Dent plays a key role, but others play their part as well and everyone contributes.

    This week, it was neither. It was everyone being warped into alternate versions of themselves where their sole purpose is to sing Iris' praises, make her look good, wait on her before acting cause without her they're nothing. Their existence, their characters, everything about them was thrown out the window to pamper to Iris. If you need to derail every other characters as it was the case last week to make a character look good, it's simply that she doesn't stand on her own, that the writing surrounding her character is so bad that there's no other way to make an episode about her work than to throw other characters under the bus. And that's Iris' problem in a nutshell, the writers are allergic to actually show her being flawed, being wrong, being doubtful, being vulnerable, not being a perfect special snowflake, that the only way to create tension is to have everyone else act dumb, cruel or inept just so she can show them all how much more fantastic than anyone she is and how she doesn't need to learn anything.

    The two questions last week's episode raised is: What is Iris doing here in the first place? She's supposed to be on this journey to evolve Kibago and learn to read the heart of Dragons, but she does nothing towards it and already knows everything about Dragon Mastery. The Village Elder and Shaga seemed to indicate that there was a major flaw in Iris that prompted them to send her on this journey, but every hurdle she faces, she already has the solution with no struggle and she already has the answer. She doesn't even need to train dragons to get a super strong one, it just falls in her lap because she's a pure radiant saint who can do no wrong. So why is she here? She gains nothing from it, her lack of flaw and vulnerabilities make her incredibly uncompelling as can be attested by the pow-wow of celebration that her defeat in the WTJC created. The other question is: where do we go from here? The writers portray her as a perfect prodigy who can do no wrong, as no flaw, everyone wants to be her friend and speaks of how great she is. She doesn't need to work or train to beat people who do cause her pokémon are so strong. I mean, it seems every time there's something announced about Iris, I hear the same thing, "It'll lead somewhere." It leads nowhere. Her meeting with Shaga is hyped as hell, yet... what's he gonna say when he sees her? "Congrats on winning the Don Battle and wow, that's a super strong Kairyu you have there. And your Kibago knows Outrage and Giga Impact... Impressive" Even if they battle and Shaga beats her, then what. It's clearly not going to be a break the haughty moment. More likely a "Wow, this was close, you're really good, keep at it" a.k.a. more Iris-glorification... yet again.

    Iris stops the story dead in its track and we're just stuck in this endless loop of Iris glorification. It's boring and makes her unrelatable.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    No , Iris character wasn't handle well at all!
    I think-

    -Writer should make Iris more Secretive!

    -It would be super cool if Iris reveal to be The ''Legendary Gym Leader'' of Oclupid city and Drayden's Former apprentice.
    She took the post of the gym leader when Ash started his pokemon journey.

    -Iris didn't left her post as a gym leader in order to become a Dragon Master .She left her post to know about the outside world!

    -Iris change her outfit in middle of the series or the beginning of Season 2! Her mother appear and gave her a new outfit so she can fit in with the modern world.

    -It would be cool if someone try to flirt with Iris.
    How is it that there isn't a guy who tried to flirt with her ? Previous cast girl had atleast 2 guys who tried to flirt with them but Nobody tries to flirt with Iris!

    -It would cool if 2 of Ash's major rival fall for in love with Iris!

    -It would be also cool if Team Rocket/Plasma hold Iris's mother hostage in order to make Iris work for them. She defect Ash's 2 rival and face Ash.
    While Ash & Iris battle , Drayden goes to save Iris's mother with Cilan!

    -It would be even cooler if N appear & briefly battle Iris! There N admit that Iris has more then enough potential to become the next Unova League Champion!

    -Iris should Untie her hair !

    I think that how Iris's character should be handle !

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    No , Iris character wasn't handle well at all!
    I think-

    -Writer should make Iris more Secretive!

    -It would be super cool if Iris reveal to be The ''Legendary Gym Leader'' of Oclupid city and Drayden's Former apprentice.
    She took the post of the gym leader when Ash started his pokemon journey.

    -Iris didn't left her post as a gym leader in order to become a Dragon Master .She left her post to know about the outside world!

    -Iris change her outfit in middle of the series or the beginning of Season 2! Her mother appear and gave her a new outfit so she can fit in with the modern world.

    -It would be cool if someone try to flirt with Iris.
    How is it that there isn't a guy who tried to flirt with her ? Previous cast girl had atleast 2 guys who tried to flirt with them but Nobody tries to flirt with Iris!

    -It would cool if 2 of Ash's major rival fall for in love with Iris!

    -It would be also cool if Team Rocket/Plasma hold Iris's mother hostage in order to make Iris work for them. She defect Ash's 2 rival and face Ash.
    While Ash & Iris battle , Drayden goes to save Iris's mother with Cilan!

    -It would be even cooler if N appear & briefly battle Iris! There N admit that Iris has more then enough potential to become the next Unova League Champion!

    -Iris should Untie her hair !

    I think that how Iris's character should be handle !
    Uh Kishore, you lost me after the flirt thing. I agree that I like Iris's champion hair compared to the one she has now but as far as personality, she needs to be more humble to ever become a champion some day. I can't see her being one with her stubborn attitude right now.

    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?
    Excadrill started to obey Iris just because she apologized. That still seems like a pretty poor reason considering that it was angry at her for years and she didn't make any other attempts to bond with Excadrill in order to build up to that apology, but that's the reason they gave. I doubt that Axew will evolve either during or after BW. Even without the Dragonite issue, Axew is a secondary mascot Pokemon and they rarely evolve those Pokemon. Plus, Axew is so inactive that even if it did evolve, there's no way it would be believable or satisfying. Not to mention I don't think Iris deserves to have even a Fraxture at this point. That's probably why they're giving Axew overpowered moves to compensate for not evolving it, which could work if there was a natural progression for Axew's strength and it didn't learn moves like Outrage or Giga Impact until it had a lot of battle experience and it was near the end the series, or at least their journey through Unova, but as it is, they're just cheap deus ex machina moves, especially Outrage.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?
    Excadrill started to obey Iris just because she apologized. That still seems like a pretty poor reason considering that it was angry at her for years and she didn't make any other attempts to bond with Excadrill in order to build up to that apology, but that's the reason they gave. I doubt that Axew will evolve either during or after BW. Even without the Dragonite issue, Axew is a secondary mascot Pokemon and they rarely evolve those Pokemon. Plus, Axew is so inactive that even if it did evolve, there's no way it would be believable or satisfying. Not to mention I don't think Iris deserves to have even a Fraxture at this point. That's probably why they're giving Axew overpowered moves to compensate for not evolving it, which could work if there was a natural progression for Axew's strength and it didn't learn moves like Outrage or Giga Impact until it had a lot of battle experience and it was near the end the series, or at least their journey through Unova, but as it is, they're just cheap deus ex machina moves, especially Outrage.
    It's funny on how fast Excadrill issue was ressolved by just appologizing. It makes you wounder why some other Pokemon took longer. But I still feel bad for Axew because even though it is a mascot, I remember in the beginning that Axew wanted to evolve in it's dreams. So it's not like Pikachu or Piplup when they made it clear that they didn't want to evolve. But that's still no excuse on how little it battled compared to Piplup and Pikachu

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?
    Excadrill started to obey Iris just because she apologized. That still seems like a pretty poor reason considering that it was angry at her for years and she didn't make any other attempts to bond with Excadrill in order to build up to that apology, but that's the reason they gave. I doubt that Axew will evolve either during or after BW. Even without the Dragonite issue, Axew is a secondary mascot Pokemon and they rarely evolve those Pokemon. Plus, Axew is so inactive that even if it did evolve, there's no way it would be believable or satisfying. Not to mention I don't think Iris deserves to have even a Fraxture at this point. That's probably why they're giving Axew overpowered moves to compensate for not evolving it, which could work if there was a natural progression for Axew's strength and it didn't learn moves like Outrage or Giga Impact until it had a lot of battle experience and it was near the end the series, or at least their journey through Unova, but as it is, they're just cheap deus ex machina moves, especially Outrage.
    It wasn't just apologizing, it was Iris understanding what happened and that she was truly sorry for not knowing what was going on. Before she didn't understand why Excadrill was behaving this way, it only lost one battle. Iris asked for Excadrill's help over the years by calling it for battles, but it ignored her.

    Excadrill also wasn't blameless. After only one loss, it lost faith in itself and Iris, not even trying to fix the problem by training more. Even if he didn't like Iris's stragety for the battle with Drayden, he shouldn't have been so hard on a little girl.

    So in the end, It wasn't one person's fault, it was simply Iris and Excadrill not understanding each other.

  10. #520
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Driller678 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?
    Excadrill started to obey Iris just because she apologized. That still seems like a pretty poor reason considering that it was angry at her for years and she didn't make any other attempts to bond with Excadrill in order to build up to that apology, but that's the reason they gave. I doubt that Axew will evolve either during or after BW. Even without the Dragonite issue, Axew is a secondary mascot Pokemon and they rarely evolve those Pokemon. Plus, Axew is so inactive that even if it did evolve, there's no way it would be believable or satisfying. Not to mention I don't think Iris deserves to have even a Fraxture at this point. That's probably why they're giving Axew overpowered moves to compensate for not evolving it, which could work if there was a natural progression for Axew's strength and it didn't learn moves like Outrage or Giga Impact until it had a lot of battle experience and it was near the end the series, or at least their journey through Unova, but as it is, they're just cheap deus ex machina moves, especially Outrage.
    It wasn't just apologizing, it was Iris understanding what happened and that she was truly sorry for not knowing what was going on. Before she didn't understand why Excadrill was behaving this way, it only lost one battle. Iris asked for Excadrill's help over the years by calling it for battles, but it ignored her.

    Excadrill also wasn't blameless. After only one loss, it lost faith in itself and Iris, not even trying to fix the problem by training more. Even if he didn't like Iris's stragety for the battle with Drayden, he shouldn't have been so hard on a little girl.

    So in the end, It wasn't one person's fault, it was simply Iris and Excadrill not understanding each other.
    So you're saying that was no one's fault at all? But don't you think that's a bit strange on how whenever a Pokemon on the show who's either disobedient or is some sort of trouble, that the trainer usually get blamed anyway? So why is Iris cleared of her faults? Because she was younger? Because Drayden told her? No. Any other trainer who have faced the same kind of cold truth. So Iris needed that little talk. Yet it still took her years to get through to him now since Georgia, Ash and Cilan pop up. It sounds weird if you ask me.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Driller678 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?
    Excadrill started to obey Iris just because she apologized. That still seems like a pretty poor reason considering that it was angry at her for years and she didn't make any other attempts to bond with Excadrill in order to build up to that apology, but that's the reason they gave. I doubt that Axew will evolve either during or after BW. Even without the Dragonite issue, Axew is a secondary mascot Pokemon and they rarely evolve those Pokemon. Plus, Axew is so inactive that even if it did evolve, there's no way it would be believable or satisfying. Not to mention I don't think Iris deserves to have even a Fraxture at this point. That's probably why they're giving Axew overpowered moves to compensate for not evolving it, which could work if there was a natural progression for Axew's strength and it didn't learn moves like Outrage or Giga Impact until it had a lot of battle experience and it was near the end the series, or at least their journey through Unova, but as it is, they're just cheap deus ex machina moves, especially Outrage.
    It wasn't just apologizing, it was Iris understanding what happened and that she was truly sorry for not knowing what was going on. Before she didn't understand why Excadrill was behaving this way, it only lost one battle. Iris asked for Excadrill's help over the years by calling it for battles, but it ignored her.

    Excadrill also wasn't blameless. After only one loss, it lost faith in itself and Iris, not even trying to fix the problem by training more. Even if he didn't like Iris's stragety for the battle with Drayden, he shouldn't have been so hard on a little girl.

    So in the end, It wasn't one person's fault, it was simply Iris and Excadrill not understanding each other.
    So you're saying that was no one's fault at all? But don't you think that's a bit strange on how whenever a Pokemon on the show who's either disobedient or is some sort of trouble, that the trainer usually get blamed anyway? So why is Iris cleared of her faults? Because she was younger? Because Drayden told her? No. Any other trainer who have faced the same kind of cold truth. So Iris needed that little talk. Yet it still took her years to get through to him now since Georgia, Ash and Cilan pop up. It sounds weird if you ask me.
    I didn't say it was no one's fault, I said it wasn't one person's fault. Stop putting words in my mouth. All I said was iris and Excadrill didn't understand each other, which ended up being resolved.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Driller678 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Driller678 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I never liked the way Iris was handled since Axew was steadily getting kidnapped and not being used. I really didn't get it why Excadrill, a Pokemon we didn't know much about, start obeying Iris out of the blue without so much of an extra episode to solve it and I don't like how Axew is put on the back burner just because of Dragonite. Will Axew even ever evolve now?
    Excadrill started to obey Iris just because she apologized. That still seems like a pretty poor reason considering that it was angry at her for years and she didn't make any other attempts to bond with Excadrill in order to build up to that apology, but that's the reason they gave. I doubt that Axew will evolve either during or after BW. Even without the Dragonite issue, Axew is a secondary mascot Pokemon and they rarely evolve those Pokemon. Plus, Axew is so inactive that even if it did evolve, there's no way it would be believable or satisfying. Not to mention I don't think Iris deserves to have even a Fraxture at this point. That's probably why they're giving Axew overpowered moves to compensate for not evolving it, which could work if there was a natural progression for Axew's strength and it didn't learn moves like Outrage or Giga Impact until it had a lot of battle experience and it was near the end the series, or at least their journey through Unova, but as it is, they're just cheap deus ex machina moves, especially Outrage.
    It wasn't just apologizing, it was Iris understanding what happened and that she was truly sorry for not knowing what was going on. Before she didn't understand why Excadrill was behaving this way, it only lost one battle. Iris asked for Excadrill's help over the years by calling it for battles, but it ignored her.

    Excadrill also wasn't blameless. After only one loss, it lost faith in itself and Iris, not even trying to fix the problem by training more. Even if he didn't like Iris's stragety for the battle with Drayden, he shouldn't have been so hard on a little girl.

    So in the end, It wasn't one person's fault, it was simply Iris and Excadrill not understanding each other.
    So you're saying that was no one's fault at all? But don't you think that's a bit strange on how whenever a Pokemon on the show who's either disobedient or is some sort of trouble, that the trainer usually get blamed anyway? So why is Iris cleared of her faults? Because she was younger? Because Drayden told her? No. Any other trainer who have faced the same kind of cold truth. So Iris needed that little talk. Yet it still took her years to get through to him now since Georgia, Ash and Cilan pop up. It sounds weird if you ask me.
    I didn't say it was no one's fault, I said it wasn't one person's fault. Stop putting words in my mouth. All I said was iris and Excadrill didn't understand each other, which ended up being resolved.
    Even though it wasn't one person's fault, the only people back then were to blame was either Iris or Drayen. Ash and Cilan weren't present back then to be at fault, Georgia barely knew what was going on and Drayden wasn't there when Beatric was tossing it around. So who's fault is it that it's been going on this long if not for her?

    And even though the problem has been solved doesn't mean that the problem hasn't been solved poorly.

  13. #523
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    One really crappy thing about Iris' character/story that stays consistent is every "problem" she has with her Pokemon. It took Axew nearly 30 episodes to learn Dragon Rage, but when it was finally learned Iris was nowhere near her Pokemon and as I recall, it was Axew's own determination to free itself and Druddigon from TR's trap that enabled it to use the move right. And in all that time, Axew's ineptitude prior to learning the move didn't give Iris any trouble whatsoever; she never seemed to be in a hurry for anything. Since it learned that puny move and despite it clearly wanting to evolve, it's not evolved and its mannerisms suggest that not even much off-screen training has been happening with it... and I'm sure it's not a stretch to assume its lack of development is the reason Iris didn't want to go to Opelucid City to face Drayden. Also since then, Axew has been learning moves that babbys normally never learn until much later; insanely overpowered moves that usually serve to prevent Iris from failing things. Outrage (which has only been used once so far) and Giga Impact (has that even been used since its first time either?) are moves that should take far larger to master than Dragon Rage, yet Axew gets them right on the very first go. By this point it's not even likely Iris won't get any flak from Drayden about not evolving Axew, because it's learned overpowered moves to overcompensate for its lack of evolving.

    Emolga was deliberately disobedient to Iris one way or another, whether it was laziness or not, but that was literally resolved off-screen in time for getting Iris past the first two Don Battle rounds. Since then it's hardly mattered in anything. Only time its problems actually affected Iris was the first BW movie when it behaved in that competition the way it should have in the Don Battle, making Iris automatically forfeit matches with the Volt Switch thing. But now that's long in the past, and movies only rarely have any impact on the actual series as it is.

    Excadrill TRIED to make Iris out to be doing something wrong, and she was... but they picked the wrong thing for Iris to blame herself about. There was really no way for Iris to know that there were issues with the way she and Excadrill battled because why would she think anything's wrong when she's had 99 consecutive wins with the thing. It was really Excadrill's problem there, who overreacted to the win streak-breaking loss (which is much more realistic for a lucky newbie to react than how Iris reacted), despite Iris clearly being shown to try and understand what Excadrill's problem was, and it was simply not giving her any response or clue as to what she "did wrong". What Iris REALLY did wrong was let the problem drag out for years before resolving it with a very simple apology and some tears. But not one single person dared to criticize Iris for letting this problem persist as long as it did. So despite Iris apologizing for being in the wrong over something, it was the wrong something she was blaming herself for. And as it turns out, it didn't really change Iris one bit - it was Excadrill who changed, in that it pretty much lost whatever traces of personality it had by being perfectly obedient to Iris once more.

    And what can really be said about Dragonite that hasn't been said already? Way beyond overpowered, disobedient to Iris - but that plot point is to be resolved in the next episode, so that's a new record of how long Iris' Pokemon problems have lasted. 2 episodes. Not only that, but the disobedience made no difference because Georgia was still squashed with little effort (and while Georgia's very justified to protest her loss because Dragonite wasn't listening to Iris, Iris clearly wasn't taking it to heart and was celebrating her win instead of being relieved that the disobedience didn't cost her to battle like ANY OTHER TRAINER would have reacted), and will be doing the same with Dawn before losing to Ash. And from what we've seen of the spoiler details, the loss seems to be another thing she'll shrug off. Then again, I guess she doesn't have to care because she has a superpowered fully-evolved Dragon that will also serve for means of Drayden kissing Iris' ass because it'll be obedient by that point.

    All of these "problems" she has with her Pokemon are never really problems. And that, of course, is the problem.

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  14. #524
    Future Seeker HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    It took Axew nearly 30 episodes to learn Dragon Rage, but when it was finally learned Iris was nowhere near her Pokemon and as I recall, it was Axew's own determination to free itself and Druddigon from TR's trap that enabled it to use the move right. And in all that time, Axew's ineptitude prior to learning the move didn't give Iris any trouble whatsoever; she never seemed to be in a hurry for anything.
    Do you think that if Iris didn't encourage Axew in previous episodes to keep on practising the move to eventually master it, him learning it at that moment would have been believable? I don't really see what's the problem. Axew did what he knew Iris would want him to do. Seeing him master it at that moment was pretty compelling to me since it showed how much Axew really wanted to be with Iris again. He didn't cower in fear like a baby in the face of danger. Instead, he stood up, thought of Iris and mastered Dragon Rage. It's been canonized that when a Pokemon is pressured, it does better and gains good results. Watching it again now still touches my heart in all the action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Since it learned that puny move and despite it clearly wanting to evolve, it's not evolved and its mannerisms suggest that not even much off-screen training has been happening with it... and I'm sure it's not a stretch to assume its lack of development is the reason Iris didn't want to go to Opelucid City to face Drayden.
    Just because Axew hasn't evolved yet, it doesn't mean that he hasn't grown or developed. Right now I'd say he's more mature than Piplup ever was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Also since then, Axew has been learning moves that babbys normally never learn until much later; insanely overpowered moves that usually serve to prevent Iris from failing things. Outrage (which has only been used once so far) and Giga Impact (has that even been used since its first time either?) are moves that should take far larger to master than Dragon Rage, yet Axew gets them right on the very first go. By this point it's not even likely Iris won't get any flak from Drayden about not evolving Axew, because it's learned overpowered moves to overcompensate for its lack of evolving.
    Just so you know, Axew can't use Outrage. It was a one time thing that mentally hurt him like how Giga Impact did. Even though it hasn't been referenced in the show, I'd say that it's because the moves are too powerful for him to use at his stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Emolga was deliberately disobedient to Iris one way or another, whether it was laziness or not, but that was literally resolved off-screen in time for getting Iris past the first two Don Battle rounds. Since then it's hardly mattered in anything. Only time its problems actually affected Iris was the first BW movie when it behaved in that competition the way it should have in the Don Battle, making Iris automatically forfeit matches with the Volt Switch thing. But now that's long in the past, and movies only rarely have any impact on the actual series as it is.
    What? Emolga still did something that Iris didn't want it to do at times. Remember when she sent her out to get the Axew that was looking for its owner in the subway? Emolga ended up electrocuting the people in the subway after finding him to get him back. Cue the guy in charge of the subway train being angry with them. It's Emolga's characteristic. It didn't disappear because Emolga continued to obey Iris like how she did before, where Emolga didn't want to battle any more of Bianca Pokemon after she was done with Pignite. Wasn't that why they took a nap afterwards? In the tournament she was being in character too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Excadrill TRIED to make Iris out to be doing something wrong, and she was... but they picked the wrong thing for Iris to blame herself about. There was really no way for Iris to know that there were issues with the way she and Excadrill battled because why would she think anything's wrong when she's had 99 consecutive wins with the thing.
    As I was watching the episode, I felt that Iris was the one to really blame the whole time. Cilan, being the Pokemon Connoisseur that he is, told Iris what the problem was. I don't know how the 99 consecutive wins could have affected her judgement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    It was really Excadrill's problem there, who overreacted to the win streak-breaking loss (which is much more realistic for a lucky newbie to react than how Iris reacted),
    What? The problem was Iris putting him up against Drayden's Haxorus. She was overconfident thinking she could beat his Haxorus with Excadrill. He got hurt badly and thought that when Iris kept on telling him to fight, it meant that she didn't care for his health as long as she won. It's not a broken aesop. As a trainer, Iris should have noticed what was going on and stopped the battle for Excadrill's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    despite Iris clearly being shown to try and understand what Excadrill's problem was, and it was simply not giving her any response or clue as to what she "did wrong".
    Some friendships go like this in real life with one side not wanting to tell the other. Excadrill not telling Iris showed how big he took the thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    What Iris REALLY did wrong was let the problem drag out for years before resolving it with a very simple apology and some tears.
    Yeah, for not understanding Excadrill's feelings. Simple apology and some tears?

    "Could it be ... that you already knew after the first hit we couldn't win against the opponent? And yet I ... I...Doryuuzu... I'm sorry. I didn't even try to understand your feelings. All I ever did was telling you to do your best."

    One of the main steps for forgiveness is to admit one's mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    But not one single person dared to criticize Iris for letting this problem persist as long as it did. So despite Iris apologizing for being in the wrong over something, it was the wrong something she was blaming herself for. And as it turns out, it didn't really change Iris one bit
    I really really like how after it was treated as a "thing of the past". Both of them made their friendship be fresh again with the "Forgive and Forget" thing they had going on. Iris became a better trainer by understanding Excadrill's heart, treating her Pokemon more personally in battle in where the Pokemon's feelings come first when she desires something. If that's not character cevelopment, then I don't know what is. I've watched the episode again recently, and no matter how many times I think that you may possibly be right, I always end up with the same conclusion that Iris' character developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    it was Excadrill who changed, in that it pretty much lost whatever traces of personality it had by being perfectly obedient to Iris once more.
    I don't think that it had any traces of personality to begin with since all it did before obeying Iris was stay closed up. If anything, Excadrill started showing it:


    ~~~Badass Excadrill~~~


    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    And what can really be said about Dragonite that hasn't been said already? Way beyond overpowered, disobedient to Iris - but that plot point is to be resolved in the next episode, so that's a new record of how long Iris' Pokemon problems have lasted. 2 episodes.
    I'd rather it be resolved now since it's the perfect opportunity! Cynthia going to help too! It's so exciting! I can't wait!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Not only that, but the disobedience made no difference because Georgia was still squashed with little effort (and while Georgia's very justified to protest her loss because Dragonite wasn't listening to Iris, Iris clearly wasn't taking it to heart and was celebrating her win instead of being relieved that the disobedience didn't cost her to battle like ANY OTHER TRAINER would have reacted), and will be doing the same with Dawn before losing to Ash.
    I'd be quite happy myself that I got through the next round since it gives me time to try to solve the problem while still being in the game. On the bright side, it gives Georgia more reason to become stronger. The rivalry itself isn't concluded. It's not as if Georgia isn't going to appear again. Iris did tell Dragonite that it should have obeyed her, so she was displeased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    And from what we've seen of the spoiler details, the loss seems to be another thing she'll shrug off. Then again, I guess she doesn't have to care because she has a superpowered fully-evolved Dragon that will also serve for means of Drayden kissing Iris' ass because it'll be obedient by that point.
    I'd have to agree with you on here...... if it weren't for the fact that Iris said in the comic that she still has a long way to go before she becomes a Dragon Master after she lost against Ash's Krookodile :P

    Recent spoilers have changed my mind on this Dragonite thing. At first I was hesitant, but seeing what it's all leading up to pleases me.
    Last edited by HumanDawn; 14th August 2012 at 12:36 PM.

  15. #525
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    Do you think that if Iris didn't encourage Axew in previous episodes to keep on practising the move to eventually master it, him learning it at that moment would have been believable?
    Assuming the way it learned it was believable... which... it wasn't.

    Iris said in the comic that she still has a long way to go before she becomes a Dragon Master
    Does she? What exactly does she lack? She has no problems, she always knows everything about Dragons, she can already synch her hearts with them, she's got a superpowerful one that rivals a Champion's Pokémon and goes toe-to-toe with legendaries. The Animé goes out of its way to say that Iris does nothing wrong and already knows everything, never makes her struggle or lose. So... Does she have a long way to go? I don't see it.

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