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  1. #361
    Princess of Sinnoh martianmister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    There is a problem with Iris' goal: Iris and Langley have different ideas and definitions for being a "Dragon Master".

    Langley thinks Iris should use dragon-types to be a real dragon master.
    Iris thinks capturing and using non-dragon types (also?) like Choroneko would help her to be a dragon master.

    That's the most problematic part of their rivalry. Iris will not avoid herself from using her first and most powerful pokemon (Doryuzu), and Langley will not give up her obsession with dragon-types.
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  2. #362
    Leopard Owner Trainer Yusuf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Though I liked that Langley called Iris on her BS last episode when Iris used Doryuuzu, Langley was raging and saying that she hadn't made any progress and hadn't improved. It's like the writers are lampshading through Langley that they are mishandling Iris' character, keeping her so static and stale and making her story go nowhere as usual. It made me smile. :D
    I agree, though I am going to post what I posted on Serebiiforums' "Are the writers are lampshaidng through Langley about Iris lack of growth?" thread(because copypasting is easier):

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinetix Yusuf
    Harley and all of his ripoffs tend to lampshade certain things:
    -Harley lampshaded May's girliness and use of "kamo" in the original JP dub; in addition to lampshading other things in various contests, most notable one being him talking about Jessie's talent of showing off Pokémon.

    -Ursula lampshaded Dawn's victiories through time-outs rather than actually winning battles, in addition to other things in certain contests, such as her comment about Dawn's Grand Festival appeal.

    -Burgundy, being a Pokémon Connaisseuse, kinda sorta has lampshading everything as an actual job requirement.

    So, yes, I think she is. But I do not know whether this is foreshadowing or just a gag. We have to wait and see, and I certainly hope for the former. Though given how Ursula ended up eating her words in GF, Georgia's comments will likely bite her in the ass back too; though the difference would be that such situaition will be exactly what Georgia wants, rather than deserves.

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    There is a problem with Iris' goal: Iris and Langley have different ideas and definitions for being a "Dragon Master".

    Langley thinks Iris should use dragon-types to be a real dragon master.
    Iris thinks capturing and using non-dragon types (also?) like Choroneko would help her to be a dragon master.

    That's the most problematic part of their rivalry. Iris will not avoid herself from using her first and most powerful pokemon (Doryuzu), and Langley will not give up her obsession with dragon-types.
    This... is a pretty accurate observation. And something I completely ignored. Not only this further shows the childish nature of both characters, especially in terms of perception, it sounds like a good set up for Shaga to be used for both their rivalry and Iris' growth. It also sounds like good set-up for Shaga to have a non-Dragon-type in his arsenal, to prove not only Iris' point, but also to give Shaga an easier to beat Pokémon for one of Satoshi's reserves to get a cheap victory, as he currently has absolutely nothing against Isshu's Dragon-types besides Monozu-line(who due to it's Dark-typing are both weak to fashionasta bug, Journey to West pig, and thug lizard. And the rock-robot's Rock Smash).

    This also sounds like a good set-up for yet another Langley vs. Iris down the line(as we likely will get a Chronoko episode for Cabernet and Dent), where Langley shows her third Pokémon she is supposed to have, to give screentime for both that Pokémon species(whatever it is) and Doryuzu to get a loss, AND possibly make yet another parallel to Mammoo, this time around Mammoo vs. Masukippa.

    But eh, we will see what happens for Iris later, as Hahakurimo's evolution in next Kibago gets lost episode seems to mean Iris will be left in the freezer until Hachiku episodes(if they decide to resolve her ice fear there and not give Langley's Tunbear Encore, preferably with a skimpy green cheerleader outfit, just make his crotch hair more noticable <3.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
    So....everyone is happy that a "Deux Ex Machina" is being taken down with another Deux Ex Machina....
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    You know, it would be hilarious if Harley did get a sex change and became Langley.
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  3. #363
    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    It also sounds like good set-up for Shaga to have a non-Dragon-type in his arsenal, to prove not only Iris' point, but also to give Shaga an easier to beat Pokémon for one of Satoshi's reserves to get a cheap victory
    I dunno, I'm not very keen on that idea. Giving Drayden a non-Dragon-type only makes sense because there are only three non-legendary Dragon-types in Unova. Plus, odds are they're going to keep the 3-on-3 form of gym battling for the rest of the series if past examples are any indication. And I hate the idea of Ash's reserves getting cheap victories because that'll only further prove that they have no business being on Ash's team if that's the best they can manage.

    But most importantly, why would a Dragon Master goal have anything to do with non-Dragon-types? That would make the title sort of a lie, wouldn't it? Plus it would only justify Iris depending on Excadrill to get by everything rather than her OWN DRAGON, which is something I feel should be pointed out as a bad thing. We know Axew wants to evolve fully, and Iris' continued dependency on Excadrill is only going to delay that goal immensely. Using Excadrill all the time does nothing to help Axew. It just gives Iris victories she didn't deserve getting; victories that have nothing to do with her primary goal, no less.

    I mean, call me crazy, but a master of one specific type would insinuate that you have to work a lot with said type, right?

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    Leopard Owner Trainer Yusuf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Best argument I can muster is that having mastery over one type can mean that you can use the said types with different types too, say a Ground-type master can use his Ground-type talents to further help it's Fire-type or something similiar. Or, a type master can use the same tactics that are mainly used for a certain-type, for another type. Say, a Ground-type master makes his Pokémon sit like a duck for a while to charge up the move using their natural senses, their overall bulk or in rare cases their speed to compensente for the loss of mobility and time to charge up the move, and carries over that tactic for an Electric-type, with varied results.

    Wait a minute... oh shi-

    Anyways, as for reserves only getting cheap victories... well, umm... yeah... that's exactly their entire point and was their entire point since Kanto(Betbeton and Kingler were the only Kanto Pokémon that were worth a damn and now they are completely forgotten after they allowed Satoshi to get far into the League. Gamagaru and Hahakurimo seem to be going to do that in the league too, since seriously can you see Mijumaru and Tsutarja sweeping anybody's Pokémon, even Bel's Chillarmy?), but maybe except in Sinnoh(well, except Heracross and Jukain, why those guys were there anyways?), and Johto to an extent(since Johto was mostly about Kanto guys, so they did deserve to be here, by raping Johto guys' screentime and development).
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwarden View Post
    So....everyone is happy that a "Deux Ex Machina" is being taken down with another Deux Ex Machina....
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru
    You know, it would be hilarious if Harley did get a sex change and became Langley.
    Youtube account, DA account, SerebiiForums account, Tinypic account, Imageshack account, Photobucket account,Smogon account, Blog, Pokémon Series Analysis Dropbox Folder, PO/PS Username: Yusuf Kaya 3.0

  5. #365
    Dawnboy Mega Charizard X's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Honestly, no. I'd like it if she got as much focus as May or Dawn did and they actually gave her episodes that focused on her goal.

  6. #366
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I'm hoping for more character development after the seventh gym badge

  7. #367
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny Queen View Post
    I'm hoping for more character development after the seventh gym badge
    While I wouldn't be against seeing some kind of development for Iris, I don't know how much good it will do if its thrown in that late in the saga. Even if it does help her with training Axew and makes her a better trainer, it will most likely feel too little, too late for me. There's just been far too much damage to her character at this point for me to really become invested in Iris' goal and potential for development. Personally, I think that's a shame since I liked her for the first few episodes. Despite being annoying, I was really looking forward to see how they would handle such a flawed main character and even without having some kind of deadline to train Axew, I was hoping that Axew's development would mirror Iris, which would make her more fleshed out. That obviously didn't happen. By the time Axew learned to control Dragon Rage, I was starting to lose hope for Iris and then those hopes were completely dashed away once Excadrill learned to obey her. Even if Iris has some connection to the eighth Gym, there's really no need for them to save her development for when they get there, especially when they introduced so many flaws in her character right from the start.

    I still wouldn't mind seeing Iris get character development though. It would probably be better than how they just hand her victories and disguise it as growth. It probably would be interesting to see the writers actually putting effort into Iris too, if only to see how different it would be from the little effort they've put into her character and Pokemon, but considering how she has been throughout the series, it's far too late for me to really care about her character. Though, I am curious about how they're going to handle Axew. Both it and Iris want it to evolve, but since Axew rarely battles, it really makes it harder for them to reach that goal. Given how Iris uses Excadrill for most of her battles now, Axew is still pretty weak in most battles and it isn't going to become a Fraxture anytime soon, I really wonder if they're even going to bother making Axew evolve at some point. It isn't like Axew's lack of experience is bothering it or Iris for that matter, so if neither one of them feels motivated to train to actually get stronger and evolve, it makes me wonder how the audience is suppose to cheer for them.
    Last edited by Hidden Mew; 27th March 2012 at 10:41 PM.

  8. #368
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Though, I am curious about how they're going to handle Axew. Both it and Iris want it to evolve, but since Axew rarely battles, it really makes it harder for them to reach that goal. Given how Iris uses Excadrill for most of her battles now, Axew is still pretty weak in most battles and it isn't going to become a Fraxture anytime soon, I really wonder if they're even going to bother making Axew evolve at some point. It isn't like Axew's lack of experience is bothering it or Iris for that matter, so if neither one of them feels motivated to train to actually get stronger and evolve, it makes me wonder how the audience is suppose to cheer for them.
    Hey maybe, just maybe....after she gets her ass kicked by Masaomi and Stephan wins the tournament she'll realized Excadrill can't be the answer to everything? MAYBE!?! COME ON WRITERS, YOU CAN DO IT!

    ..........

    Nah. it's probably just wishful thinking. Probably won't cause any development and she'll just remain static.

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    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    They'll come up with something before the eighth gym challenge anyways

  10. #370
    Cuter in real life Iteru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I'm personally holding out on Shaga straight-out telling Iris that she's not putting as much effort into training and using Kibago as much as she should when Doryuzu is already a very capable fighter. A little mention of how Satoshi puts Zurrug in a tournament to improve while she doesn't have that trust in Kibago wouldn't go amiss either.

  11. #371
    RWB
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iteru View Post
    I'm personally holding out on Shaga straight-out telling Iris that she's not putting as much effort into training and using Kibago as much as she should when Doryuzu is already a very capable fighter. A little mention of how Satoshi puts Zurrug in a tournament to improve while she doesn't have that trust in Kibago wouldn't go amiss either.
    Tie this in with Georgia being present and having a battle with Drayden(loses, but not all that badly- gets a "you surprised me with your skills"), and you have my ideal scenario. :P
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  12. #372
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny Queen View Post
    I'm hoping for more character development after the seventh gym badge
    And I was hoping for more character development before the seventh gym too. Drayden shouldn't have to be the only one to tell her, "you might have to focus more on training Axew if you want to become a better dragon trainer". She's smart. She should know that. This is why I think Ash and Cilan aren't saying anything but only Langley. She's the only one able to sense the bull$hit that's going on with her.

  13. #373
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Langley did bring up the whole "not using Dragons" again today through yelling at Ash about it. Too bad he probably won't do anything about it, or push her to consider training Axew more.

    Considering Iris got beat today just as badly as she did against Drayden, I hope she starts training Axew. She just seemed to say the obligatory we'll get strong phrase, or something...then went on to encourage Ash and Scraggy. So eh.

    Excadrill can only hold Iris up for so long if the battle against Masaomi, and Stephan's inevitable victory against said trainer is any indication.
    Last edited by Masurao; 29th March 2012 at 03:59 PM.
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  14. #374
    Registered User Trainer Gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Hopefully Georgia's constantly calling out on Iris' lack of using dragons is a sure sign that the writers have something planned for Iris and Axew's growth (and hopefully in the near future). There's just got to be a reason Georgia keeps bringing that up.
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  15. #375
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel View Post
    Hopefully Georgia's constantly calling out on Iris' lack of using dragons is a sure sign that the writers have something planned for Iris and Axew's growth (and hopefully in the near future). There's just got to be a reason Georgia keeps bringing that up.
    Perhaps, but right now it just seems like a gag. Georgia yelling at Ash about it was amusing enough...like he's really gonna do anything about it. Right now her anger about it is falling on deaf ears. It's nice that Georgia thinks Iris is so "worthy", but push your rival to focus on her goal more plz.

    Maaaaaaybe something will come up in the Durant episode? lol no

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