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  1. #331
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    And yet with Misty after Kanto it was the same.

    I repeat: The only reason Iris' screentime seems off is that she came directly after Dawn. People now expect the female protagonist to "do something," and the fact that she isn't has people very confused.

    Yes she could get more screentime in general, but coming off of DP especially made it feel that way. I remember people saying how Iris only got 1 minute of screentime in the first BW episode while Dawn literally had the entire first ep of DP...the comparisons were made notable.
    I didn't think that Misty battled that much during Kanto, or much screentime for that matter, so seeing her not battle that much during Johto wasn't much of a shock. I really think that you're ignoring most of the complaints about Iris's character and just assuming what everyone's problem is, despite what others have clearly mentioned what they don't like about Iris's character. I'll admit that it is jarring to go from Dawn, who pretty much had the most screentime out of all of the female characters, to Iris, who does less than even Misty did during her time in the first series, but I don't think that makes people confused. Like Zidane mentioned, the amount of screentime Iris gets isn't the problem. For a character that doesn't have a battle active goal like Gyms or Contests, the amount of screentime she gets is fairly decent at best. The issue is that they aren't doing anything with her character within the amount of screentime she has to benefit her character or advance her goal in any meaningful way.

    While Misty didn't have that much screentime and she could have been handled much better, they didn't make it look like she was such a strong Water Pokemon trainer in Kanto, despite using Goldeen to battle on land a couple of times, never doing much on-screen training and not having a vast knowledge of Water Pokemon. They're basically doing that with Iris in regards to her goal of being a Dragon Master. She already knows about all different kinds of Dragon Pokemon and basically has Dragon-whispering skills. Despite her lack of on-screen training, she is rewarded with Excadrill and Emolga listening to her, Axew learning Dragon Rage with very little effort and then Outrage out of nowhere in order to win a battle she clearly should have lost. And at the start of the series, she wasn't shown to be much of a strong trainer due to Excadrill not listening to her and Axew being pretty useless. Yet, they want the audience to believe that she won 99 battles in a row with Drilbur before she was old enough to officially become a trainer. That still annoys me along with the whole Outrage issue.

    All of her accomplishments have been handed to her. She hasn't earned any of them herself through hard work. She a hypocrite and instead of people calling her out on her flaws, both personality and training method-wise, they are generally ignored and in some cases, such as with Axew's Outrage, they're rewarded. The amount of screentime Iris gets is the least of her problems considering how terrible the writing around her character is.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Question is,do we necessarily need to see character going through struggles and breakdowns "crying their heart out" to make us want them to succeed?
    Brock or Cilan never really went through any depression or falling downs, but people still manage to grew to like them wanting to see them succeed.

    Perhaps writers are trying to do same thing with Iris character intending that Ash is the only character in BW cast which creates pathos, while sidekicks primary role is only to provide comedy and good interaction here and there getting some spotlight for themselves.

    Personally i find people expected too much from Iris character being their initial mistake.After seeing how much formula changed with anime going back to one main star and everyone else being supporting cast, i kept my expectations realistic so i suppose thats one of reasons why im not disappointed much with Iris.

    As far as personality goes i find her enjoyable. She is fun and hyperactive bringing enjoyable dynamic and chemistry within group. Her backstory is done compared to other characters in detailed way bringing certain dash of mystery behind it and its nice for a change to see female in main cast which isnt rookie being actually competent already at start(didnt happen since OS).

    For sidekick quantity of screen time isnt issue either, because she is getting decent spotlight for her role being possible to feel character presence in show and her goal of dragon master is better defined,a long with getting her own rival Langley. Luxury Misty never had chance to have.

    I will also dare to say, how while Cilan seems to get more focus because of his intrusive approach when sharing spotlight with someone else in number of character centric episodes both Iris and Cilan so far had roughly equal number of character centric episodes.

    However while Cilan gets quantity, Iris gets quality. I dont care what other says but no one can convince me how she didnt developed at all as character so far, insulting my intelligence with such claims.
    Take for example Excadrill or Deino episode, both episodes contained emotions and revealed something about her character. For start we got insight more in her backstory, how she got her pokemon and why Drayden is so much important figure in story.
    It showed how character is far from being able to understand pokemon feelings properly(being unaware of how Excadrill felt for years proved that)which is one of basic things someone needs to learn and become able to connect with dragons on deep level, if he ever wants to become dragon master. This episode not only addressed on Iris flaw but it also caused change with character being able to admit its own mistakes learning something out of it, and managing to restore lost bond with mole pokemon.

    It can also be noticed that Iris is more easy on Ash not criticizing him so much like she used in start being less of hypocrite. She started to acknowledge his skills as trainer, with Ash gaining her respect.

    Or that infamous Don battle tournament. Perhaps it didnt brought some development, but it helped in Iris path of becoming dragon master because by coming out as winner she became more recognized as trainer and famous out there.
    Which increases her credibility among other trainers serving as testament to someone abilities.
    And as final product out of it Axew learned new attack gaining more battling experience, which helps to fulfill required level he needs to reach before evolving.

    True all those things could have been played out better, and methods which were used to reach desired goal were unbelievable with poor writing surrounding it. However Iris so far gained something out of her journey contrary to popular belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    For a sidekick role, Iris has a decent amount of screentime, at best, but the writers aren't doing that much with that screentime to make her a more interesting/likable/developed character. I think that's the main problem rather than how much screentime she gets. A character could get a lot or little screentime, but that wouldn't matter if nothing was accomplished during that time to make them a better character in some fashion.
    Maybe its not very notable around here and i know its no one who posts in this thread,but people would be surprised how many fans there is who dislike Iris only because she is receiving less focus than Dawn did, finding shocking how writers went from female co-star to girl sidekick role again.After you get used to something,its hard to go back to something from past.

    Than again we are talking about same fans which find every character which wasnt May or Dawn as inferior in every aspect, because of having smaller role.Which is laughable in least hand with personality, his pokemon and quality of someone development when leaves impact counting too. Pretty much reason why first girl companion Misty despite getting less, is considered among many as one of best characters pokemon ever had.

    So Gliscord actually brings up good point, because some fans are judging Iris character only by that criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    The complaints about Iris now are very similar to the complaints of the Johto portion of Misty's character or DP era Brock.
    I dont remember people complaining nearly as much for those characters, like its case with Iris. In Johto people wished Misty got more development, but complaints about Brock in Johto were far more notable with fans being raged how even after second return to cast he still gets shortest end of stick.

    I also dont recall anyone claiming for them how "they dont have any struggles to deal with", "how they are made too experienced and competent as trainers hampering their development"etc.
    If anything people found they were more realistic as characters having flaws which they need to overcome, and even after departure many felt how there is left more to root for(more notably in Misty case), having unlocked potential to do more.

    Iris is so far female about who fans complain the most, and while i dont agree with some of things they say i cant deny that many are disappointed with Iris treatment as character so far.

    I only think Iris has more potential because she's still new, and the writers hadn't given up on her like others.
    That doesnt make much sense to me. Older character which was already developed to some extent can have more potential than new one. It all depends on its plots and how much things writers left unresolved,to determine such thing.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 31st January 2012 at 08:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Question is,do we necessarily need to see character going through struggles and breakdowns "crying their heart out" to make us want them to succeed?
    Brock or Cilan never really went through any depression or falling downs, but people still manage to grew to like them wanting to see them succeed.
    Iris doesn't necessarily need to go through an emotional breakdown like Dawn did with her losing streak, but working through struggles, or working at all to achieve her goals for that matter, would help her out a bit. Though, there's also the need for a more likable personality, which probably is one reason why characters like Brock and Cilan have people who wanted them to succeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokmemon fan 132
    Perhaps writers are trying to do same thing with Iris character intending that Ash is the only character in BW cast which creates pathos, while sidekicks primary role is only to provide comedy and good interaction here and there getting some spotlight for themselves.
    If that's the case, then I think they're doing a poor job with her character when she doesn't provide that much comedy and she doesn't have good interactions with Ash or Cilan.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Personally i find people expected too much from Iris character being their initial mistake.After seeing how much formula changed with anime going back to one main star and everyone else being supporting cast, i kept my expectations realistic so i suppose thats one of reasons why im not disappointed much with Iris.
    I don't think that I expected too much from Iris. Even though she wouldn't get the same kind of screentime as May or Dawn, I originally hoped that she would grow more as a person due to how her goal involved just evolving Axew, but that clearly hasn't happened. The reason why I'm disappointed with Iris is because of how terrible the writing around her character is, how all of her accomplishments have been handed to her and she has an annoying and unlikable personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    However while Cilan gets quantity, Iris gets quality. I dont care what other says but no one can convince me how she didnt developed at all as character so far, insulting my intelligence with such claims.
    Take for example Excadrill or Deino episode, both episodes contained emotions and revealed something about her character. For start we got insight more in her backstory, how she got her pokemon and why Drayden is so much important figure in story.
    It showed how character is far from being able to understand pokemon feelings properly(being unaware of how Excadrill felt for years proved that)which is one of basic things someone needs to learn and become able to connect with dragons on deep level, if he ever wants to become dragon master. This episode not only addressed on Iris flaw but it also caused change with character being able to admit its own mistakes learning something out of it, and managing to restore lost bond with mole pokemon.
    I don't think that anyone is trying to insult you when saying that Iris hasn't developed at all. I don't see any drastic change in her character now compared to the first episode of BW and getting backstory, which still felt forced and inconsistent to how she was depicted at the start of the series, doesn't changes anything. It definitely doesn't make Drayden a more important character since losing to him didn't affect Iris when she was a little kid and we have no idea what kind of relationship they have now. As for the whole problem being unable to understand her Pokemon's feelings, that wasn't really treated as a flaw. It was acknowledged why that made Excadrill wouldn't listen to her, but that hasn't prevented her from bonding with Axew or her battling skills in the Club Battle tournament. It also hasn't been mentioned since that Excadrill episode, as far as I know at least, so I don't think it's that important. I also don't think that it caused any drastic change in Iris's character. All she did was apologize to Excadrill and then spent the night training with it, which is admittedly more work than she normally does, but it doesn't change her character. Especially when Cilan had to point out the problem for her, despite how Iris has been dealing with Excadrill for years and didn't come close to figuring out why it didn't like her anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    It can also be noticed that Iris is more easy on Ash not criticizing him so much like she used in start being less of hypocrite. She started to acknowledge his skills as trainer, with Ash gaining her respect.
    She still calls him a little kid way too often to make me think that their relationship has changed that much, if at all, by this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Or that infamous Don battle tournament. Perhaps it didnt brought some development, but it helped in Iris path of becoming dragon master because by coming out as winner she became more recognized as trainer and famous out there.
    Which increases her credibility among other trainers serving as testament to someone abilities.
    And as final product out of it Axew learned new attack gaining more battling experience, which helps to fulfill required level he needs to reach before evolving.
    Considering how she only used Axew once, I don't think that winning the tournament helped Iris reach her goal of becoming a Dragon Master. As far as we know, all she needs to do to become a Dragon Master is develop a deep connection with a Dragon Pokemon and then have Axew evolve into a Haxorus. She doesn't need to win tournaments or become more famous in order to become a Dragon Master. The fact that she's from the Village of Dragon is apparently enough to make anyone want to battle her given how Trip responded to her. There's honestly no excuse for Axew learning Outrage with having little to no training prior to the tournament, clearly still being a weakling during that battle and after having problems just using Dragon Rage. There's also no levels in the anime, at least not like the kinds in the video games, and considering the new ending theme, Axew clearly isn't going to evolve anytime soon, so there was no point in giving Axew such a powerful attack like that beyond giving Iris an undeserved victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    True all those things could have been played out better, and methods which were used to reach desired goal were unbelievable with poor writing surrounding it. However Iris so far gained something out of her journey contrary to popular belief.
    Iris has been handed all of these accomplishments, including Excadrill's problem, which was resolved way too easily. I still don't think that she's changed that much as a person or a trainer during the series at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
    Maybe its not very notable around here and i know its no one who posts in this thread,but people would be surprised how many fans there is who dislike Iris only because she is receiving less focus than Dawn did, finding shocking how writers went from female co-star to girl sidekick role again.After you get used to something,its hard to go back to something from past.

    Than again we are talking about same fans which find every character which wasnt May or Dawn as inferior in every aspect, because of having smaller role.Which is laughable in least hand with personality, his pokemon and quality of someone development when leaves impact counting too. Pretty much reason why first girl companion Misty despite getting less, is considered among many as one of best characters pokemon ever had.

    So Gliscord actually brings up good point, because some fans are judging Iris character only by that criteria.
    I was actually talking about how people around here don't seem to complain that much about Iris's screentime. I don't visit many other Pokemon forums, so I wouldn't know how other sites handle her. Though, if that's the only problem people have with Iris, then I guess that they're much better at ignoring terrible writing and annoying behavior than I am.
    Last edited by Hidden Mew; 31st January 2012 at 04:34 PM.

  4. #334
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Nope.

    /thread

    Actually starting to think that Axew learning Outrage was intended to cause outrage amongst the fans. Now, when/if Axew does evolve... just what moves does he have to look forward to? Dual Chop/Dragon Tail? lol

    Compared to May/Dawn, and imo Misty as well Iris's writing is poor. A big problem for me is that Iris doesn't seem to really or realistically learn new things and develop as a person, which is the whole point of a journey to begin with.

    Her character also seems rushed to me. One could blame this on the faster pacing on BW, but honestly they do not need to end BW with her as a powerful Gym Leader, which is what it seems like they want to do.

    Everything just feels shallow with Iris, which is a shame because I honestly do not hate her. I just wish that she were developed better.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Dragon Tail does sound like a good idea. But you are right @EL. I don't want to see Axew in one episode learn any more moves and not see it use it again until another 20 episodes or more. That is just ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    ^ Thats because Outrage was BS Deus-ex. They just couldn't have Iris lose.

    Axew should have learned Dual Chop, thats like his signature anyways. Dragon Tail also would had been more appropriate. Both of these moves are new Generation 5 dragon type moves. Since the anime is suppose to advertise the games, then they screwed up pretty badly on this. Bonus points would have been added if they actually showed Axew doing on-screen training with Iris to learn these attacks. You know, that thing called work/training instead of just pulling Outrage out of the void.

    What should have happened:

    Axew vs Pikachu in the Don Tournament, with Axew learning and perfecting Dual Chop throughout said tournament.

    Axew eventually evolving into a Fraxure sometime down the road, but only after Iris is shown working hard and training for it. Have his evolution try and perfect Dragon Tail.

    When finally reaching Haxorus after much hard work like Blaziken/May for example, then have him learn Outrage, but have it be out of control for a while due to inexperience. Maybe Drayden could have helped with that for example since he has much more experience. It would have been a nice opportunity for growth for both Axew/Iris.

    What they did instead:
    Axew learning and perfecting Outrage in one go.

    If he evolves, he might learn Dual Chop, though with Outrage whats the point? & Knowing the writers they could have him learn Dragon Tail.

    Haxorus... last and final move will be Dual Chop.

    Its like everything is backwards. Iris's team is also stagnant. Don't see how she is suppose to truly grow as a trainer like this.
    Last edited by El_; 2nd February 2012 at 03:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Little late but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Iris doesn't necessarily need to go through an emotional breakdown like Dawn did with her losing streak, but working through struggles, or working at all to achieve her goals for that matter, would help her out a bit. Though, there's also the need for a more likable personality, which probably is one reason why characters like Brock and Cilan have people who wanted them to succeed.
    But thats my point,why character need to go necessarily through struggles to have believable development? Many people in real life who are successful never really break accomplishing everything they gained through hard work being competent.

    We never saw Brock really struggling,and even more Cilan for that matter but they still made people care for them growing attached to characters.

    Now some will say problem is in personality but thats completely subjective.There is no right or wrong answer in here,and i can say that i find Iris persona likable.

    Admittedly i enjoyed more in Misty and May personality, but Iris comes in third place currently entertaining me more than Dawn did.

    If that's the case, then I think they're doing a poor job with her character when she doesn't provide that much comedy and she doesn't have good interactions with Ash or Cilan.
    Depends for who,though. Because i find Iris character to be funny having good chemistry with cast. In fact imo Bw trio is second best in group dynamic(right after original trio in Kanto and Johto).

    I like her teasing and hyperactive side. Yes she tends to be sometimes hypocrite but sometimes its more in funny way than anything else and that clash with Cilan on one side having someone who is more interested in spiritual things, while other trying to be realist and find scientific explanation seemed intriguing.

    I don't think that I expected too much from Iris. Even though she wouldn't get the same kind of screentime as May or Dawn, I originally hoped that she would grow more as a person due to how her goal involved just evolving Axew, but that clearly hasn't happened. The reason why I'm disappointed with Iris is because of how terrible the writing around her character is, how all of her accomplishments have been handed to her and she has an annoying and unlikable personality.
    I say it did and she changed but people somehow tend to ignore that. I will agree how not everything was treated properly but i dont think everything was handled terribly so far either. Like i said she has good personality, tends to get episodes with higher quality than Cilan does being more focused on emotion and character past,and i liked way she restored lost bond with Excadrill, managed to help out Emma about Druddigon teaching Axew dragon rage etc.

    Winning Don tournament didnt really bothered me, because unlike majority i like when sometimes other characters beside Ash takes glory.Its refreshing when females instead of only losing succeed for a change.

    For same bizarre reason people hated when Misty beat Ash in Whirl Cup.


    I don't think that anyone is trying to insult you when saying that Iris hasn't developed at all. I don't see any drastic change in her character now compared to the first episode of BW and getting backstory, which still felt forced and inconsistent to how she was depicted at the start of the series, doesn't changes anything. It definitely doesn't make Drayden a more important character since losing to him didn't affect Iris when she was a little kid and we have no idea what kind of relationship they have now. As for the whole problem being unable to understand her Pokemon's feelings, that wasn't really treated as a flaw. It was acknowledged why that made Excadrill wouldn't listen to her, but that hasn't prevented her from bonding with Axew or her battling skills in the Club Battle tournament. It also hasn't been mentioned since that Excadrill episode, as far as I know at least, so I don't think it's that important. I also don't think that it caused any drastic change in Iris's character. All she did was apologize to Excadrill and then spent the night training with it, which is admittedly more work than she normally does, but it doesn't change her character. Especially when Cilan had to point out the problem for her, despite how Iris has been dealing with Excadrill for years and didn't come close to figuring out why it didn't like her anymore.
    Perhaps it wasnt drastic change, but some difference can be noticed in Iris characterization. At start she used to judge Ash unfairly, criticized him about almost everything and couldnt admit her own flaws and acknowledge that.

    Nowdays true she still tease Ash but its more joking around being in friendly way(thats what friends do sometimes). Besides Misty teased Ash during whole run(not just in Kanto ,but OI,Johto and afterwards in Hoenn) but i dont see people having problems with it finding it funny. I suppose reason is because Ash reacted,reciprocating to it(even after maturing in Hoenn), but since with Iris he is much more passive there is no two way interaction causing dislike.

    Than again thats not only Iris fault,but Ash as well with writers not being consistent with his characterization. So im not sure if its fair to blame only Iris for that.

    Backstory we got in Exycadrill episode was very important to better understand her character giving answer to many things. Like from where her knowledge and skills comes from when being taken in account how she is just 10.Which is justified given all that training and battling she went with Dillbur(later Excadrill)several years ago. It revealed who was her pokemon,what caused Excadrill to close himself from others not listening to Iris and revelation of Drayden indirectly foreshadowed what is to expect in future.

    Since now we know that he is considered as dragon master which is her goal,since we know that Iris has connections with Opelud City gym because of being gym leader in games, it becomes rather obvious how she will battle Dayden playing important role in her path of becoming dragon master.

    About being unable to understand pokemon feelings my point still stands. You can create bond with pokemon, but still not be very familiarized with their feelings. Same issue happened with Iris, it was established that she and Excadrill used to have strong bond in past which was cut after lose vs Haxorous with Iris incompetence to understand when its time to stop and retreat with dignity, not being aware how Excadrill felt during battle causing her pokemon to isolate himself. Fact that even after several years she had no clue why Excadrill reacted that way until Cilan pointed it out, showed that she still has a lot to learn as trainer about pokemon feelings. Lastly apologizing to Excadrill may have not mean much,but it showed that character softened up a bit being willing to acknowledge her mistake and how she shouldnt have forced mole pokemon in that battle so much.Which is called growth, albeit small one but its still change compared to starting days.

    As for Iris personality, its understandable that not everyone will be able to find such type of characterization likable but many people manage to enjoy in her traits. After all we cant have same taste and if you dont find someone personality appealing it becomes much, much harder to like character.

    She still calls him a little kid way too often to make me think that their relationship has changed that much, if at all, by this point.
    It seems to me,how tone and attitude/approach she has toward Ash nowdays has changed.

    Considering how she only used Axew once, I don't think that winning the tournament helped Iris reach her goal of becoming a Dragon Master. As far as we know, all she needs to do to become a Dragon Master is develop a deep connection with a Dragon Pokemon and then have Axew evolve into a Haxorus. She doesn't need to win tournaments or become more famous in order to become a Dragon Master. The fact that she's from the Village of Dragon is apparently enough to make anyone want to battle her given how Trip responded to her. There's honestly no excuse for Axew learning Outrage with having little to no training prior to the tournament, clearly still being a weakling during that battle and after having problems just using Dragon Rage. There's also no levels in the anime, at least not like the kinds in the video games, and considering the new ending theme, Axew clearly isn't going to evolve anytime soon, so there was no point in giving Axew such a powerful attack like that beyond giving Iris an undeserved victory.
    She used Axew once, but she also used other pokemon like Emolga and Excadrill in tournament too. Being one type specialist doest mean you cant have pokemon from other types in team too. With Misty it worked because water is most common and diverse type out there,but with such rare and indigent to choose from type like dragon, its hard to form decent and workable team.

    Winning Don tournament maybe didnt advanced her goal of dragon master, but it helped in a sense that her name became more known in Unova being more recognized as trainer out there. In order to become dragon master its not enough to evolve Axew and connect on close level with dragon types and i doubt anyone really believes how there is all which there is to it.

    Dragon master also needs to be very knowledgeable and exceptionally strong as trainer(at least on Drayden level), and quite frankly Iris is not even close to such level yet.

    Granted Misty goal of water master involved to become something much harder to achieve(being basically on E4 level)and as it was evidenced just like Ash goal it requires traveling, battling and entering tournaments. But i dont think becoming dragon master is something very easy to accomplish being joke either, regardless of following different set of rules and format.

    About Axew learning outrage of nowhere, i can count at least 10 examples where other main character pokemon learned new attack with no training prior to that or build up(Cilan pokemon as recent example comes to mind).
    Sometimes if pokemon is in stressful situation or doesnt want to let down his trainer, he will manage to learn powerful attack to get himself out of dangerous situation regardless of how experienced he really is. Just like its case with real life and instinct for survival, where things which normally wouldnt happen do.

    I was actually talking about how people around here don't seem to complain that much about Iris's screentime. I don't visit many other Pokemon forums, so I wouldn't know how other sites handle her. Though, if that's the only problem people have with Iris, then I guess that they're much better at ignoring terrible writing and annoying behavior than I am.
    Like I said quality of writing is often subjective. Something one person may find annoying and terrible, others might view as great and fantastic.

    Its really hard to determine if character is handled well or not,when opinions vary so much from person to person. In reality out of all sites i had been to,people seems to accept Iris much better than they do in here.Than again they are also much more open toward return of older characters,so i guess different mindset prevails there.

    Personally im somewhere in middle,i agree how Iris isnt treated properly in some aspects,but i dont think everything sucks about character being able to enjoy in it.

    Now im probably only one around here which disagree with some of points majority said about Iris, but frankly i dont really care. Majority isnt always right, and its rather pointless to continue with debate if we arent going to agree over anything anyway.

    So while i respectfully disagree,i respect opinion from others and dont really see point in continuing beating dead horse.

  8. #338
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    You probably know the best out of us that Misty deserved to win the Whirl Cup, what with it being focused around water-types. The Don Battle tournament, however, was not based around dragons. And Ash is not only more experienced but he was also the one battling all the gyms. Iris doesn't have a real reason to win the tournament like Misty did- if there wasn't a pro-Iris bias then Ash would've won on account of his own merits instead of Iris' Axew pulling a move and a win out of nowhere.
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  9. #339
    Best squid ever Bouffalant Herdier's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Watching the most recent episodes, I'll admit Iris has become slightly, slightly more tolerable, but this is only because she doesn't use her awful catchphrase six times an episode as she did at the beginning of Best Wishes.

    I still don't like her at all because, for the most part, she still contributes little-to-nothing of any value unless she's the main focus. Literally the only thing she does of significance in most episodes is to unfairly bitch about how immature or annoying her "friends" are, which just reminds me why I dislike her so much in the first place, even if it only happens once every three episodes now. Why is it so terrible for Cilan to evaluate Pokemon and their trainers, isn't that necessary to become an S-rank Pokemon Connoisseur? How would she like it if Ash or Cilan groaned every time she mentioned her Dragon Master dream? It doesn't come across as friendly teasing at all; if they truly want to prove Iris respects Ash or Cilan now, she needs to drop her attitude towards them completely.

    Who is this git?

  10. #340
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Yeah they're doing enough. But I wish they did more for her outside on the Don battle or any gym so that there can be a balance like Cilan. But yes, I'm glad her catch phrase is down too. It doesn't make sense to have her insluting Ash or anyone else anymore due to the fact that everyone is growing.

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    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bouffalant Herdier View Post
    Watching the most recent episodes, I'll admit Iris has become slightly, slightly more tolerable.
    I completely agree with this. Ever since the Raimon City arc, Iris has sorta felt like she definitely was on friendlier terms with Satoshi and Dent, and was doing less complaining about everything else. I won't go over everything I thought the production team did wrong with her character during the gap between Hiun City and Raimon City, but since then, they've at least made the character tolerable. They're not doing anything really wrong per se with Iris, but they're not doing anything really right either. She's just there and easy to ignore. In most of the episodes since Raimon City, I actually found myself forgetting that Iris was there when I was watching the episode, kinda like she was invisible. She had a few good moments, a few funny moments in that sequence of episodes, but overall... nothing memorable, nothing interesting, nothing to really make me care one way or the other about the character.

    In my opinion, the writers are doing enough with Iris if the goal is to make her character not detrimental to the show as she was during the Hiun/Raimon gap. If the goal is to make her compelling, make the audience root for her and excited to see her do well, achieve her goal, then no, they aren't doing enough. I see a lot of people in the Donamite Preview thread express a lot of excitement at the prospect of Bel going far because of how much she has developped since the Don Battle tournament, a lot of disappointment over Cabernet losing, because ultimately, they care a lot about these characters, but moreso because these are two very endearing and well-written characters. Both underdogs, both hard-working, both growing as people, both overcoming obstacles, based on Iris' initial portrayal, that's what we should have seen in her character. Both now, at the eve of the Donamite, there's no steam to the character. Her story is going nowhere, as instead of training and battling with Kibago, she's once again using Doryuuzu.

    So yeah, she's not the thorn she once was, but she's just there. At this point in time, I don't have anything negative to say about Iris, I don't have anything positive to say about Iris, so in my opinion, the writers aren't doing enough with Iris. They have yet to justify her presence on the main cast and make me care about the character.
    Last edited by Hellion; 6th March 2012 at 07:03 PM.

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    Registered User Trainer Gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I'm still waiting for the writers to focus more on Axew. He still needs to grow out of his baby stage and develop more as a battler, so we won't have to deal with flukes like what happened in the last tournament. Axew is basically the key to Iris' goal to be a Dragon Master as it is anyway, so I'd say it's about time the writers started to work more on that again. Because until they do, I can't accept that they are doing enough with Iris.
    Last edited by Trainer Gabriel; 6th March 2012 at 07:22 PM.
    Hidden Mew and Trainer Yusuf like this.

  13. #343
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Gabriel View Post
    I'm still waiting for the writers to focus more on Axew. He still needs to grow out of his baby stage and develop more as a battler, so we won't have to deal with flukes like what happened in the last tournament. Axew is basically the key to Iris' goal to be a Dragon Master as it is anyway, so I'd say it's about time the writers started to work more on that again. Because until they do, I can't accept that they are doing enough with Iris.
    I completely agree. I'm slightly surprised that they haven't give Axew more focus, especially when it basically is the main aspect of Iris's goal and the reason she's traveling around in the first place. Despite knowing Dragon Rage and even Outrage for some foolish reason, Axew is still pretty useless in battle. I think that this would be understandable if Axew didn't know Outrage and this was still fairly early into the saga, but that isn't the case. There's really no excuse for Axew to still have problems battling at this point. I know that they've never established a sense of urgency with Iris getting Axew to evolve, but given that Ash only has a couple of more badges to earn, they really need to make some short of progress with Axew before they get to the Unova League. It would look like they completely wasted her goal if they didn't. Although, based on the ending theme, her team isn't going to change anytime soon, so I don't know what kind of visible improvements they can make with Axew if they don't put any effort into it or Iris' character in general.

    Anyway, I guess that Iris is a bit less annoying, or I'm just so used to finding her annoying at this point, but I wouldn't say that the writers are doing enough with her character either. She still has little, if any, development, all of her problems have been solved for her and she has made little progression with her goal. There's been little focus on her goal as well. She says that she wants to be a Dragon Master and that she wants to get stronger along with Axew, but there isn't any sign of her actually doing something to back that up. Just talking about your goal isn't going to be enough to make me invested in the character and root for them. In fact, given my experience with other characters with this kind of problem, it makes me much more distant towards them and pretty indifferent if they do achieve their goals or not in the end. I think that the writers definitely have to make Iris put more effort in trying to reach her goal, rather than handing everything to her and thus making any accomplishment she makes feel hallow and meaningless in the grand scheme of her development. That would probably make her a more appealing character, or at least make it look like she actually wants to reach her goal through her hard work and dedication with Axew instead of depending on Excadrill.

  14. #344
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Axew has gotten more focus than Togepi but less than Piplup.

    Seriously, I thought people hated the amount of screentime Piplup got. Axew is fine, although its odd that it hasn't evolved yet...

  15. #345
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Axew has gotten more focus than Togepi but less than Piplup.
    Yeah, but she's hardly trained Axew at all in the 70+ episodes she's been in this series. She still seems to be heavily favoring Excadrill.

    It's also a bit odd that, at least so far, the writers are using only the Don Battle tournaments as her battling outlets. All other times she's just kinda sitting on the sidelines.

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