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  1. #16
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    What to say about Iris?
    From start it was obvious that she is not going to receive nowhere near as much like May or Dawn did which doesnt matter to me because for good development you dont need a lot.

    She is good character contributing to balanced and interesting group dynamic with writers attempt of keeping her past and story like goal,problems surrounding her pokemon etc in mystery until now being nice twist trying to keep audience in intense mood.How successful they were at it though is different pair of sleeves.
    Currently she is getting pretty good treatment for a supporting character screen time wise(especially lately)giving us insight in her back story and past life,what motivated her wanting to become dragon master,as well problems about her pokemon like Axew,Emolga and Excadrill until lately being addressed.Possible inclusion of rival like Langley is welcomed thing too which could serve as push/motivation in her future development.
    Insight in past and defeat she experienced from Drayden pretty much sets up that culmination of Iris development is going to happen around 8th gym getting rematch with Excadrill with Axew being petty much a given being main center of Iris story with her mission being to raise and evolve it in powerful Haxorous.

    I also like the fact that we get for a change experienced trainer who isnt complete rookie which didnt happened since Misty with Iris showing impressive skill with her result of 99 wins winning tournament under age of 10.Thats not to say how other girls like May,Misty or Dawn didnt win competitions too having powerful pokemon with Iris not being strongest battler in group but so far she seem to have strongest pokemon in main cast being Excadrill who showed to be a real problem to deal with.
    I dont know about others but i find relationship between Iris and drill pokemon touching and intriguing too.When he was still Drillbur everything didnt started out well between them with time becoming close friends participating in many battles with whole reason behind his disobedience being caused by lose of confidence in his trainer after being pushed to try harder in battle despite being injured.Thanks to another lost against Langley and Beartic Iris managed to break through him gaining his thrust back working again as team in battle.

    Some may say how there arent any particular flaws going for Iris character to have her change but you dont always need to have character experiencing emotional struggle to develop him.Point of Iris development isnt to have her get over some childhood trauma or having breakdown needing to return her confidence or some other character aspect back but in having her leaning how to become better dragon trainer,exploring new strategies learning on defeats and how to overcome problems surrounding her pokemon from insecure Axew,unwilling to battle Emolga and until recently disobedient Excadrill.
    This is way through which her character is probably planned to grow in strong dragon trainer on pair with Drayden expanding her horizons along with leaning how to deal with pokemon problems and obstacles which are put in front of her gaining more experience and confidence out of it.That and strengthening her relationship with pokemon becoming closer to the gaining their thrust like Excadrill case showed and to some extent Axew .

    However i have to say that my main objection is rapidness through which Iris issues are being resolved with whole resolution of Excadrill problem being rushed happening too fast.This kind of approach sometimes while desired can on other hand feel forced making character resolution of problem unrealistic.

    However generally speaking im content with focus Iris receives so far having more positive than negative things in treatment so far in my opinion.

  2. #17
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sato-chan View Post
    For example, am I alone or did more people think her "99 wins as a kid" thing was too much? :l
    No, you're not. Many people have expressed dislike for such a fact. Why they felt they needed to overly hype her in the flashback was beyond me, and alot of other people. How exactly does that make her relatable?

    She didn't show any struggle. People say that she bonded with Excadrill after training with him, but that's no different from anyone else in this show as far as main characters go.

    What does giving Iris such a powerful Pokemon this early into the series do for her character?
    Last edited by Masurao; 30th May 2011 at 09:52 AM.
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    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    She didn't show any struggle. People say that she bonded with Excadrill after training with him, but that's no different from anyone else in this show as far as main characters go.
    I actually agree how whole resolution of Excadrill issue was rushed happening too quickly but to be fair it had its positive sides.Through flashback(rather long one)we get to see whole reason why this problem appeared in first place with harsh defeat from Beartic and Iris opening herself helping him how to perfect Focus blast making him start to realize how she truly cares for him wanting him best.Iris and Excadrill in reality as past showed already had strong bond which was staggered a bit with one tragic incident,being only needed to get it back on right track.

    It wasnt like with Ash Charizard or Dawn Mamoswine with pokemon being disobedient from start with this type of problem when you think about it not requiring so much set up.
    Though point stands it needed more time to make it feel more realistic.

    What does giving Iris such a powerful Pokemon this early into the series do for her character?
    Well she already had it that strong while she was kid years before turning 10 and beside its not totally unrealistic for young trainer to have powerful pokemon.Excadrill showed to be quite tough as pokemon already as Drillbur while being in wild and i guess revealing Iris already having strong pokemon serves purpose of portraying her in light as competent trainer who has talent to come very far in training dragon types with elder of village having trust in her abilities when giving her task to evolve Axew.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 30th May 2011 at 12:38 PM.

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    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Since the other thread got closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    She did nothing about Doryuuzu's problem, FOR YEARS! If that's not a flaw, I don't know what is...
    In the BW036 flashback, she is shown trying, and she later states in present times that she tried to encourage Doryuuzu many times over the years. The writers went out of their way to disprove your statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    "Could it be ... that you already knew after the first hit we couldn't win against the opponent? And yet I ... I...Doryuuzu... I'm sorry. I didn't even try to understand your feelings. All I ever did was telling you to do your best."

    First moment in Best Wishes in which Iris is forced to admit how it was her fault all along
    Except it wasn't her fault. Doryuuzu misunderstood her, that's why it retreated back in its shell. Iris is apologizing because she hadn't figure out that... Doryuuzu misunderstood her caring and encouraging for carelessness. But, in the end, was she portrayed as being wrong? No and that's the problem. Once, she apologizes for doing absolutely nothing wrong, Doryuuzu then realizes she cared all along and... gets back to training as she told him to do before, proving her right in the end.

    Doryuuzu developed, as he realizes that Iris had cared all along and that it should trust its trainer in fighting stronger opponents, but nothing about Iris's methods or core characteristics are shaken in that episode.

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    ポケモン Tsutarja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Except it was her fault. Had she understood him all of that would have never happened.

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    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsutarja View Post
    Except it was her fault. Had she understood him all of that would have never happened.
    Had she allowed him to give up on the battle like he wanted? Fostering in the process Doryuuzu's feeling of weakness and inadequacy? That would have really been her fault. That would have portrayed her in a negative light, that would have then caused a problem, like Doryuuzu having no confidence and not wanting to battle. That would have forced Iris to take a look at herself and realize she should have believe in him in the first place, allowing both her and Doryuuzu to grow alongside one another... In short, that would have been developement. Instead we have 100% of the problem solely on Doryuuzu's shoulder, Iris being shown as capable, skillful, knowledgeable, caring, encouraging, but misunderstood by her pokémon, then she apologizes for doing nothing wrong, prompting her pokémon to realize she was right all along. In short, what we had was uninteresting and held no developement for Iris.

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    Princess of Sinnoh martianmister's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    In the BW036 flashback, she is shown trying, and she later states in present times that she tried to encourage Doryuuzu many times over the years. The writers went out of their way to disprove your statement.
    She never tried to talk her, just want to "encourage" him by forced him to battle, like what happened in BW09...

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    Her Drilburr mainly being the cause of the issue. Are we to believe that she had trained that Pokemon any longer Paul for instance trained some of his Pokemon?
    Yes. Remember her age?
    1. Satoshi/Ash Ketchum: 801 episodes
    2. Team Rocket: 736 episodes
    3. Takeshi/Brock: 633 episodes
    4. Kasumi/Misty: 282 episodes
    5. Hikari/Dawn: 201 episodes
    6. Haruka/May: 197 episodes
    7. Masato/Max: 192 episodes
    8. Iris: 141 episodes
    9. Dent/Cilan: 138 episodes
    10. Kenji/Tracey: 44 episodes

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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Nowhere near as much as they tried with Dawn but I don't think they're trying and failing. I think they're deliberately not trying because they intended to go back to the Kanto dynamic for Gen 5, and that means less focus on the sidekicks and more focus on Ash.
    I personally, love this kind of dynamic the most. I just think it works the best (well in terms of my enjoyment anyway) >.>

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    The problem is that so many fans got used to Dawn being focused on so much, that when Iris came along and she was merely a sidekick and not a co-star it caused disappointment among some of the fandom. I, personally, am in the part of the fandom that loves Iris and thinks she's a great character for who she is. I really enjoy her personality, her Pokemon, and how she interacts with Ash, Cilan and all the other characters. I'm very happy with the way things are and aside from maybe a bit more focus, I couldn't ask the writers for anything better.
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    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Insanish Danish View Post
    The problem is that so many fans got used to Dawn being focused on so much, that when Iris came along and she was merely a sidekick and not a co-star it caused disappointment among some of the fandom.
    For all the times I've seen this reason cited, I've not seen one person who dislikes Iris bring this up when discussing her. It's definitely not the case with me; if Iris had the screentime and focus that Dawn had, I don't think I would dislike her any less than I do now. In fact, I suspect I'd dislike her even more given that I don't find her personality charming or cute in the least.

    It is not the co-star/sidekick shift that makes anyone dislike Iris. Even sidekicks in this series normally get better, more sensible development than what we're getting with Iris now. Max was probably the best example of a sidekick with a limited role, but he still had endearing traits along with annoying ones, he did get called out on for hypocrisy, whenever he was wrong, or whenever he misjudged Ash, and Max had to own up for mistakes he made due to his personality flaws. And he wasn't even a trainer. Max had to endure these things well within his duration of 30-40 episodes for certain, and since BW's pace is more akin to Hoenn's/Kanto's than any other series, I'd say it's a fair analogy to make here. So it's not that we were too used to a female co-star that Iris annoys some of us; it's that we were too used to any character in this series, be they star, co-star, sidekick, secondary recurring, or rival, having cohesive character development that both makes sense and helps the viewer understand the character better.

    All of Iris' focused episodes only highlight how much "better" she is than we initially perceived, which makes her behavior in the early episodes even harder to understand. Any problem Iris has, the fault is eventually shown to be on anyone other than herself, even if she blames herself for it. Her attitude with Ash is almost always uncalled for, and she conveniently gets away with it because Ash won't stoop to her level. I can recall maybe two times she's "called out" on her hypocrisy or unwarranted behavior, and both time were just for the sake of a two-second gag that bears no effect on the story or her character, and her general behavior remains unchanged. The series glorifies things like Iris' "slow-but-steady pace", but never really reference it even though it wouldn't take that much time out of any episode (many of which have a good percentage of filler that could be axed without affecting the episode at all) to do so and remind the audience that she's dedicated and responsible.

    The show could've made a plot point out of Iris not following through with her vows so she could have an easily-relatable character flaw that could be addressed so Iris can better herself, but instead they contradict it and decide to make Iris even more senselessly experienced for the weakest reason I ever heard (playing with the woodland creatures makes you capable of a 99-victory winning streak? riiiiight), make the Pokemon solely responsible for the incompatibility issues with Iris even though she rarely (if ever) shows concern, care, or persistence in trying to work things out like any other main character would've done.

    But I think Iris being so "different" from other main characters is the main problem, since that's the main problem with the BW series in general: it's only being different for the sake of being different. They tried to fix what wasn't broken in previous series and that results in things not making a lot of sense. I could go on forever about that, but for here, the bottom line is that based on what I've seen and read, people don't dislike Iris because she's a side-kick - they dislike her because she's a poorly-conceived, badly-written and badly-developed character.

    And really, I think people who say the writers are doing absolutely everything right with Iris aren't being honest with themselves. There are characters in Pokemon I love to death, but I'd never say that any of them were handled perfectly by the writers. One way or another, every character's had a missed opportunity the writers never took advantage of or the writers take a route with a character that they could've done a better job with. So no, my bias against Iris has nothing to do with my feelings about that; I just think it's unnecessary, dishonest praise.

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  11. #26
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Since i wasnt given chance to reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Except it wasn't her fault. Doryuuzu misunderstood her, that's why it retreated back in its shell. Iris is apologizing because she hadn't figure out that... Doryuuzu misunderstood her caring and encouraging for carelessness. But, in the end, was she portrayed as being wrong? No and that's the problem. Once, she apologizes for doing absolutely nothing wrong, Doryuuzu then realizes she cared all along and... gets back to training as she told him to do before, proving her right in the end.

    Doryuuzu developed, as he realizes that Iris had cared all along and that it should trust its trainer in fighting stronger opponents, but nothing about Iris's methods or core characteristics are shaken in that episode.
    And didnt Iris admitted how it was her own fault of not understanding Excadrill feelings?
    Didnt she managed to regain confidence of her pokemon back?

    Before this incident Iris didnt realized what was real problem behind her pokemon which is indeed a flaw because she was oblivious to it not trying to break through shell under which mole was hiding just expecting from him to start listening to her.
    You said how passive approach she is using when training and developing her own pokmon is not a flaw but flashbacks from past and hesitation she showed when battling with Axew are more nus-product of her own character fearing that something might go wrong ending up with another disobedient pokenmon than it was truly because she "didnt wanted that baby pookemon gets hurt".Later battles with Axew in anime disproves argument of this happening because Axew was too young.

    Perhaps im going too deep when analyzing this but its needed to take in account how Iris also used to criticize Ash because of his mistakes,same mistakes she used to do in past being reckless and stubborn with his actions reminding her of herself and what happened in past.

    Speaking of Emolga i cant say i entirely agree with argument how all problems regarding her disobedience are coming from her personality because with more authoritative trainer those imperfections would be managed to put under control.
    You could say problem lies in Emolga but to some extent Iris is responsible for this as well because of not being tough enough to put her own pokemon under control not understanding how to resolve current problem with passive approach she is using being flaw in this case because of not being determinative enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Had she allowed him to give up on the battle like he wanted? Fostering in the process Doryuuzu's feeling of weakness and inadequacy? That would have really been her fault. That would have portrayed her in a negative light, that would have then caused a problem, like Doryuuzu having no confidence and not wanting to battle.
    Character doesnt always need to be portrayed in negative light to point out his flaws.Character not being able to understand what he did wrong counts as his own flaw being ignorant and oblivious to his mistakes.

    In short, what we had was uninteresting and held no developement for Iris.
    I dont know about you but many people(including myself)enjoyed in this episode with Iris breakdown and bond she established with Excadrill making people feeling sympathy for her.

    If that was writers intention i must say they did pretty good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    For all the times I've seen this reason cited, I've not seen one person who dislikes Iris bring this up when discussing her. It's definitely not the case with me; if Iris had the screentime and focus that Dawn had, I don't think I would dislike her any less than I do now. In fact, I suspect I'd dislike her even more given that I don't find her personality charming or cute in the least.
    But Insanish Danish brings up valid and accurate point.Perhaps this may be not present very often in here but i encountered good chunk pf people who dislike Iris only because she has smaller role than Dawn did viewing her because of that as useless and pointless..

    Bulbagarden is just one forum.

    And really, I think people who say the writers are doing absolutely everything right with Iris aren't being honest with themselves. There are characters in Pokemon I love to death, but I'd never say that any of them were handled perfectly by the writers.
    Ultimate problem in here is that quality can be often subjective with something which someone may recognize as "poor writing"others might view as "job being done good".

    Personally i like Iris personality and interacting she brings to group,i like amount of focus she receives and she got some development contrary to popular belief(more than i can say for Dento whose situation is alarming).
    What i view as mistake from writers side is fact of everything happening slowly sometimes not being consistent enough with their intentions.

  12. #27
    Stars, Rainbows and Stars Chronos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Just because Iris doesn't get called out on things, doesn't mean it's automatically not a flaw anymore. If I see someone wearing an ugly outfit, but don't tell them that it's ugly, it's not suddenly a glamorous one.

    IIRC, Cilan called Iris out on her "you're such a kid" thing anyway. Does she have to be called out every time she says it? Iris may not have a lot of flaws to overcome, but she does have a couple of them. I don't get why Iris has to have a lot of problems anyways, this is Ash's journey, not hers. Ash is the main character; the writers obviously don't want to focus on Iris and Cilan too much so that it detracts from Ash's story.

    I see Iris and Cilan as both being characters meant for entertainment purposes, but in different ways. Cilan is more carefree, yet knowledgeable, and Iris is more sassy and naive. When I look at it this way, I think when Iris is given episodes like BW036, it adds depth to her character, rather than making her somehow look bad to some of you.

    Honestly, when I look at it, I think the writers are doing decently with her overall. At some points, I did feel kind of blah about her, and still somewhat do, but lately, I've grown to like her inch by inch as the episodes go along. There are a lot of qualities about her that I like, such as how in-tune with nature she is. I really don't see Iris as being flawless at all, and she still has a lot of progressing to do as a character. If you all focus too much on her not-so-great points, of course she's going to come off as incredibly lackluster. If you look at her as a whole, you'd see that she really isn't as bad as you think.

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    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    But Insanish Danish brings up valid and accurate point.Perhaps this may be not present very often in here but i encountered good chunk pf people who dislike Iris only because she has smaller role than Dawn did viewing her because of that as useless and pointless..

    Bulbagarden is just one forum.
    That's nice, but I was only referring to this forum, as I don't keep track of, nor care of what goes on in other forums. And since as far as this forum is concerned I can think of only one person who wanted Iris to have more screentime and wasn't even that vocal about it; the rest of us here have never ever ever felt this way, we've stated several times over why that isn't the case, hence the point is null and void as far as this forum is concerned.



    Ultimate problem in here is that quality can be often subjective with something which someone may recognize as "poor writing"others might view as "job being done good".
    Oh boy, this again. Try looking at it this way, though: subjective views or not, perfection in this context is an impossibility. That is what my point is; you can praise the writing and whatnot all you like, but calling it perfect and saying the writers "can do no wrong" is just an outright lie no matter how biased or impartial you are, because nobody is perfect. Like I said, even with my favorite characters, I'd never go as far to say "there's absolutely nothing these writers can do wrong for this character and everything they create is absolutely flawless" because honestly, they can do wrong and nobody is flawless.

    Personally i like Iris personality and interacting she brings to group,i like amount of focus she receives and she got some development contrary to popular belief(more than i can say for Dento whose situation is alarming).
    And guess what, Cilan has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. All of this scapegoating of him does absolutely nothing for any aspect of this discussion. If you want to roast the guy and cry "Sue!" at Cilan, do that on his thread. Not here. It's pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
    Just because Iris doesn't get called out on things, doesn't mean it's automatically not a flaw anymore.
    No one's saying that the flaw ceases to be a flaw. It's that the flaw is not treated as a flaw, and therefore what weight does the flaw hold when it isn't acknowledged in its own canon?

    IIRC, Cilan called Iris out on her "you're such a kid" thing anyway. Does she have to be called out every time she says it?
    Yeah, that was the two-second inconsequential gag that I mentioned earlier. Even if she does get called out on it, nothing changes. It lasts all of a few seconds and then gets completely ignored afterwards. She doesn't have to be called out every time, no, but when she REALLY gives Ash shit that he doesn't deserve (like insulting him for not knowing what Battle Clubs are since they don't exist in his region or holding up his end of a bet), it would be nice to see Iris not get away with that kind of rude behavior all the time. Like I said, main characters before BW who had these kinds of attitudes were often called out on and/or scolded, and rightfully so. Even if Iris isn't malicious, she really overdid the shtick early on in the series and it honestly did nothing but eat up time that could've been used for something more useful and worthwhile.

    Iris may not have a lot of flaws to overcome, but she does have a couple of them. I don't get why Iris has to have a lot of problems anyways, this is Ash's journey, not hers. Ash is the main character; the writers obviously don't want to focus on Iris and Cilan too much so that it detracts from Ash's story.
    I suppose you're new to this, because we've explained dozens of times that we don't want Iris getting the kind of exposure that Dawn had and the amount of screentime she gets is just fine. It's how they use the time that I have a problem with; being a sidekick is no excuse to be lazy with character development, especially when the writers establish a major subplot for Iris and completely and totally half-ass it after dragging it out for half a year with barely any mention of it since it was established.

    And really, Iris has more than just a "couple" of flaws, IMO. But like I said, most of her flaws aren't even recognized as such in the show even if the viewers can see the flaws plain as day.

    I see Iris and Cilan as both being characters meant for entertainment purposes, but in different ways. Cilan is more carefree, yet knowledgeable, and Iris is more sassy and naive. When I look at it this way, I think when Iris is given episodes like BW036, it adds depth to her character, rather than making her somehow look bad to some of you.
    Cilan entertains me; he's doing just fine in his role, so I have no issues with him. Iris, on the other hand, does not entertain me in the least. Her bickering with Ash is repetitive, annoying, and a chore to sit through. That's how I feel about it, anyway. I dislike her personality and while the flaws she has now should in theory help her grow to be more well-rounded by the end, with every passing episode that focuses on her, she only gets more inconsistent, unjustified, and harder to like. And in episodes that don't focus on Iris, she's often standing there in the background and on occasion spouting negative remarks that are usually uncalled for. There've been plenty of opportunities that passed that could've fleshed Iris out a little more in subtle ways, but instead they just leave her there as background fodder. Sure, you can say that's because she's a sidekick, except Cilan tends to be much more involved and proactive even when the episodes don't focus on him.

    Yes, I'm sure this'll be torn to bits with "subjective blah blah blah" but the point is that our disdain for the character and the writers who we believe are mishandling her is not unfounded, it is not blind hatred and rage, it is not a "warped point of view", and it's not wrong. There is no "right" or "wrong" here.

    If you all focus too much on her not-so-great points, of course she's going to come off as incredibly lackluster. If you look at her as a whole, you'd see that she really isn't as bad as you think.
    Yeah. Problem is, I've honestly tried to think about aspects of Iris that I like - that appeal to me. And you know what? I can't think of one single thing. Not one trait, detail, or reason so far shines out to me and that's not me just focusing on the negative traits. I really cannot see a reason to like her. And for as long as these kinds of debates have transpired, not one person here has even tried bringing up a good point that is unique to her (because saying "she likes her friends" or "she cares about her Pokemon" are not unique good traits; those are prerequisite traits for every main character in this show).
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Yeah, I think it's enough.

    Her role might be different, but it's not like she's doing nothing at all.

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    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    That's nice, but I was only referring to this forum, as I don't keep track of, nor care of what goes on in other forums. And since as far as this forum is concerned I can think of only one person who wanted Iris to have more screentime and wasn't even that vocal about it; the rest of us here have never ever ever felt this way, we've stated several times over why that isn't the case, hence the point is null and void as far as this forum is concerned.
    I guess you werent too much around here when it was revealed how female co-star is going to be replaced with sidekick.I can think of at least 10 fans in here who are annoyed by this.

    Oh boy, this again. Try looking at it this way, though: subjective views or not, perfection in this context is an impossibility. That is what my point is; you can praise the writing and whatnot all you like, but calling it perfect and saying the writers "can do no wrong" is just an outright lie no matter how biased or impartial you are, because nobody is perfect. Like I said, even with my favorite characters, I'd never go as far to say "there's absolutely nothing these writers can do wrong for this character and everything they create is absolutely flawless" because honestly, they can do wrong and nobody is flawless.
    I already acknowledged what i see as poor writing from writers side being that they are taking Iris development at speed of nail pace not being consistent with her plots or fears.one of examples is her supposed fear from ice types just to act perfectly normal not being bothered with it when she battled Langley.

    What i dont agree with and dont see as "bad writing"is treatment of Iris character so far getting solid amount of focus with writers delivering nice character development regarding Excadrill by exploring more on her past,having Iris acknowledge her mistake and flaw of being oblivious to her own pokemon feelings actually admitting what she was doing wrong which ignite change in character.
    Not to extent as we would like but it was step forward nonetheless along with restoring confidence from her pokemon back.

    Some people will continue to nitpick how way in which writers executed this was poorly but i dont agree with them with there being a small line between good and bad writing.
    Judging by reactions of fandom at least in here it seems writers got what they intended by having people starting to care more for character.

    No one's saying that the flaw ceases to be a flaw. It's that the flaw is not treated as a flaw, and therefore what weight does the flaw hold when it isn't acknowledged in its own canon?
    Iris passive attitude toward training her pokemon was portrayed as flaw since her pokemon slowly develop having unstable team at moment.For problems which are being caused by pokemon trainer is on some part responsible for their actions too like its case with Emolga.

    [QUOTE]
    Yeah. Problem is, I've honestly tried to think about aspects of Iris that I like - that appeal to me. And you know what? I can't think of one single thing. Not one trait, detail, or reason so far shines out to me and that's not me just focusing on the negative traits. I really cannot see a reason to like her.[/QUUOTE]

    Even if everything in Iris story gets treated perfectly if someone doesnt find Iris personality and plots in her story entertaining that cannot be helped.
    Iris character is already established and while she will change to some extent through development her main traits which define her(core)will stay intact.

    Same thing happened with previous girls like Misty,May or Dawn.They became more mature changing abit but majority of main traits which defined their characters from start are kept.

    And for as long as these kinds of debates have transpired, not one person here has even tried bringing up a good point that is unique to her (because saying "she likes her friends" or "she cares about her Pokemon" are not unique good traits; those are prerequisite traits for every main character in this show).
    Unique traits pertaining to her character is that she is a bit wild liking to climb on trees,tends to be invasive with pokemon being overly hyperactive.

    Another unique trait is that she has her own tempo when developing dragons learning what is best way to train them.

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