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  1. #196
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Afrojisiac-19 View Post
    The only possible thing I can think of at the moment is that the writers may possibly be building up anticipation for another battle between Ash and Iris. One that Ash will win. I predict a loss coming in Iris' future...Whether it will be significant to her development or not, that I don't know...
    If that is the case, then why would they want to build up anticipation for another battle between Ash and Iris? That would make her more of a rival than a traveling companion. Even though you battle her as a Gym Leader in White, I still don't think that it should affect her strength in the series, especially when they already made it clear that she didn't have great skills at the beginning of the series with Axew unable to even use the weakest of Dragon type moves and Excadrill refusing to listen to her. It just makes the writing painfully inconsistent. Besides, it isn't like that was the first time they ever battled. They had practice battles with Axew and Scraggy, even though they were mostly used for comedy relief and were pretty short, and they even had one or two matches once Axew could control Dragon Rage. They could and have battled each other before, so building up anticipation feels kind of pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Afrojisiac-19
    I think the better question would be, if Ash beat Iris at the Don Tournament, would it have played a significant role in Iris' development afterwards?? Have you ever thought about what would've happened if Ash won instead of Iris? Would it really humble Iris and make her want to work harder? And if she lost to him there, surely she wouldn't be satisfied until she beat him in a revenge match, no? I know people want to see a change in her development, but I'm not completely sure/sold that a loss there would've been what was needed to start the improvements with her. It's not like we're not gonna see Ash win again, he's guaranteed to win battles, no matter where he travels. For Iris, I think it's a case of when and how she loses...And how she'll recover...If not now, then hopefully soon...
    Did winning the Don Tournament play a significant role in Iris' development, especially when she didn't use Axew that much and she has done extremely little training during the course of the series? If Ash had won, I don't think that it would have humbled Iris that much, but it might have made her start to realize that she really needs to improve her battling skills if she wants to get Axew to evolve. If Ash had won, it would have meant more since it would have shown that his team, despite their flaws, were at least improving pretty well. I'm not sure if she would want to face Ash again in a revenge match if she did lose. She didn't seem to mind how they always tied, or really left them as a tie, when Axew battled Scarggy and she didn't act like her defeat against Drayden really bothered her either based on the flashback. She doesn't talk about how she wants to face that same person again and win or implied it when she was giving her backstory with Excadrill. Another problem I have with Iris is that she should have more than enough motivation to train due to her connection to Axew and her lost to Drayden. Normally, a lost like that should have affected her and urged her to train more in order to become that strong. The fact that she apparently needs something more in order to make her a more engaging or interesting character just feels like the writers have completely missed the potential she had from the start.

  2. #197

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Iris and Ash can battle each other at any time. I don't see why they had to design an entire tournament so they could battle seriously for once. It just made them come across as rivals, moreso than traveling companions. As it's already been said, Iris winning this tournament did nothing to further her goal at all. She primarily used Pokemon that have nothing to do with her goal to win it. She's suppose to be a Dragon Master after all, not a Pokemon Master like Ash.

    Ash ( and to a lesser extent Cilan) having to improve their skills has already been shown this season. How about showing that Iris has to improve? That would have been the case had she lost. But instead, they make Ash (and Cilan) come out the one that has to improve again. Which goes back to my point, why have Iris win..when Ash needed that win far more?
    Last edited by Masurao; 28th October 2011 at 01:32 PM.

  3. #198
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Yes, they are doing a lot for Iris. But I think it's necessary. She's not battling or coordinating so they have to have her episodes done so well or she'll end up being a worse version of Misty. I'm sorry to bring her in here, but there is no one else I know who was a girl gymleader who barely battled but got a standard novation in her episodes. And there is supposed to be some upcoming episodes with Iris involved, so she is getting proper attention.

  4. #199

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Yes, they are doing a lot for Iris. But I think it's necessary.
    They can do alot for her, and still make her a relatable character...which they've failed to do so far. I'm sure most of us understand the writers likely want Iris to be the 8th Gym Leader by the time she departs. However, they need to slowly build up to it.

    Right now it seems they are rushing her character by giving her a grandiose background, tossing her wins, and making her look like she's superior to both of her companions...therefore having nothing to learn from them. Again, it's almost been 60 episodes and she hasn't been shown to lose, learn new things, or really grow..whereas Ash, and Dento have.

    I don't know what the writers are waiting for.
    Last edited by Masurao; 29th October 2011 at 03:24 PM.

  5. #200
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zidane View Post
    They can do alot for her, and still make her a relatable character...which they've failed to do so far. I'm sure most of us understand the writers likely want Iris to be the 8th Gym Leader by the time she departs. However, they need to slowly build up to it.

    Right now it seems they are rushing her character by giving her a grandiose background, tossing her wins, and making her look like she's superior to both of her companions...therefore having nothing to learn from them. Again, it's almost been 60 episodes and she hasn't been shown to lose, learn new things, or really grow..whereas Ash, and Dento have.

    I don't know what the writers are waiting for.
    What do you mean relatable? Ever girl on the show can't be someone who you can relate with. The only main girl who I ever related with was May because she was me at the age of 10. Misty was so far off, Dawn was my class president and Iris was the foreign exchange student. And giving Iris actual wins is good. Because maybe she'll get a lot of losses later. Easy things come and easy things go in a minute.

  6. #201
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    What do you mean relatable? Ever girl on the show can't be someone who you can relate with. The only main girl who I ever related with was May because she was me at the age of 10. Misty was so far off, Dawn was my class president and Iris was the foreign exchange student. And giving Iris actual wins is good. Because maybe she'll get a lot of losses later. Easy things come and easy things go in a minute.
    I don't see how Iris could be relatable or be a character someone in the target audience would cheer for. Her problems are resolved way too easy, she puts more effort into insulting other people than training her Pokemon and she's just not a really likable character. There's really nothing that does make me want to see her fulfill her goal, or even make progress in it. I didn't care for Dawn that much, but I didn't want her not reach towards her goal. Given the way the show has been going for her, the idea of her wins means that she'll get a lot of losses later on is a huge "if" at this point. Not to mention that I don't think those losses would validate the terrible writing around those victories, especially if those losses don't affect her character in a way that forces her to realize that she is immature and that she needs to work on herself just as much, if not more so, than Axew in order for both of them to evolve.

  7. #202

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Lol, if the writers are trying to make us root for Iris...then they sure aren't doing a great job. It's really hard to root for a character that is a Debbie downer, snarky, and wins everything. I'm sure the writers want us to find Iris and her antics cute, and funny...but that aspect of her has long wore off.

    To me, all the girls before Iris had relatable qualities that made me want to see them succeed. With Iris she's already a competent battler that rarely loses, is skilled with multiple types of Pokemon, has defeated the main character, and has already raised one Pokemon effectively to a point where it got 99 straight wins. So...what is there to root for?

    I'm at a loss.
    Last edited by Masurao; 30th October 2011 at 10:42 AM.

  8. #203
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I have to wonder what the writers have in store for Iris at this point. Aside from evolving Axew, I'm not sure what else can be done with her character.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Deino episode will somehow improve her ongoing character growth.

  9. #204
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    I think main problem with Iris is that very little or almost nothing has been gained so far from her wins and development of pokemon.Misty perhaps didnt received enough focus nor development but in emotional sense she was treated much better.Character had issues and problems allowing to sympathy and connect with her when she was losing or being put down.For everything she achieved she had to work hard and constantly prove herself to others gaining some significant growth.

    With Iris i cant seem to connect on that level,no matter how much i try because there is no suspense nor emotion being put in whole thing.Her problems are resolved way too quickly,character hardly changes and at that point it becomes hard to root for someone if he doesnt need to work hard and learn on his defeats.

    As it currently stands of this really hampers down character development and hopefully later down the road more depth will be given to Iris story allowing for some significant growth starting to get through some hard time .

    Currently Iris doesnt have any real problems to deal with which is a shame because there definitely exists potential to do something worthwhile.Like more attention being put on Axew and aim of evolving to final form which could reflect negatively on Iris character of not being sure if she is good enough to fulfill task still not being able to fully understand dragon types and their feelings using them to full potential.Which is one of most important things needed to accomplish her dream of becoming dragon master.

    Or that rivalry with Langley being injected with more clash and tension starting to develop on deeper and different level.

    We saw Iris qualities as trainer,confidence and ability to take car of things on her own being nice to have someone competent in cast for a change,but it would be nice if we could see character starting to do mistakes as well to confirm how she is still long way to go with there being a lot more to learn.Of course its obvious shes not there yet to reach success but this should be pointed out through character actions and problems as well.

    Something writers arent exactly doing currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer_Gabriel View Post
    I have to wonder what the writers have in store for Iris at this point. Aside from evolving Axew, I'm not sure what else can be done with her character.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Deino episode will somehow improve her ongoing character growth.
    Well i dont think this is everything we could see from Iris.Writers can in theory introduce new obstacles and problems in her story to allow for some meaningful growth with there not existing limitation when it comes to this things.I could see Excadrill playing some big role around 8th gym getting rematch against Drayden and Haxorous to be given chance to redeem for that harsh defeat in past.We could perhaps learn more about Iris past and family(if anyone is alive)and learn about potential connection with 8th gym.

    There are also other pokemon she might catch introducing flaws and obstacles to deal with,that rivalry with Langley and hypocritical(at times)attitude on which they could work on.
    Iris has directions to go forward but what her story lacks is substance and hopefully character will be shake up eventually starting to deal with some crisis and loses allowing for some significant growth being made.

  10. #205

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer_Gabriel View Post
    I have to wonder what the writers have in store for Iris at this point. Aside from evolving Axew, I'm not sure what else can be done with her character.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Deino episode will somehow improve her ongoing character growth.
    I think the writers just need to slow things down. Right now, it just seems like the writers are making a bee-line straight to her inevitable showdown with Drayden. Her grandiose background didn't really give me the impression that she needs to be with Ash, or Cilan to improve herself. She's already perfectly capable of being a Gym Leader. I don't particularly know why the writers are going for long periods of time without her losing, but at this point..I don't really see her going on a losing streak. Given that she's a protagonist, she should be someone you really want to root for. I really hope they improve her in the next year, because if nothing changes and she remains the same..it's going to be a long second year.

    The Deino episode looks like it doesn't do anything other than show-off her Dragon Reading abilities again, and given that all of her major screen-time is devoted to glorifying her abilities I don't have much hope in this episode making me feel for her.

  11. #206
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Yeah, maybe just giving her a break would to let her "cool off" would be the best thing to do at the moment. I still just hope they can somehow improve her growth to make it more believeable - even though I'm not sure how that's going to be possible.

    I have little expectations for the Deino episode as well, but I'm still clinging to vain hope until it airs.

  12. #207
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    One thing I liked with the coordinator girls was that they started off and ended up being so strong. I liked that. I'm not used to seeing anyone on that show, even Ash, starting off in a new region 4 times stronger than Ash or anyone else. This is how Iris seems very unrelatable for me right now. Everyone has had to face hardships and all kids of crap on the show and whatever problems Iris has goes away pretty quick without not much effort at all. Even Misty had Psyduck to keep her busy.
    But as far as her story goes, she's being handle like a pro if she ain't already one.

  13. #208

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    But as far as her story goes, she's being handle like a pro if she ain't already one.
    Ultimately it feels like the writers are going to whole "different, for the sake of being different" route. The past three sagas saw three girls starting off fairly weak, and grew into stronger trainers at the end because of the support systems they had.

    Here we have a girl who trained in the wilderness with one Pokemon, and somehow she's already on par with a person who's been through 4 leagues placing well, won the Orange League, BF, and took down legendaries. Except in her case she doesn't feel like she has anything to learn, and Ash does...well because he's Ash. She suffers the same problems Trip does, only he doesn't have an absurd back-story.

    They really need to give her a reason that she wants to travel with Ash beyond her original "Grrr! I'm not following you, only showing you the way k?" Cilan's placement in the group is justified, and he has stated why he wanted to travel with Ash multiple times.
    Last edited by Masurao; 30th October 2011 at 05:41 PM.

  14. #209
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    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zidane View Post
    But instead, they make Ash (and Cilan) come out the one that has to improve again. Which goes back to my point, why have Iris win..when Ash needed that win far more?
    Sorry, I had to do a double take on that. I didn't know Cilan needed to improve on anything. What with his various gags and he wins most of his battles while learning new moves on the spot (Dwebble and Pansage in it's upcoming battle). I swear everybody here will be quick to pounce on Iris, Ash, Trip, Bianca and who ever else but they let Cilan get away with anything. /endrant

    While I definitely agree that Ash needs some wins, I seriously don't think having Iris win a small tournament that will most likely be inconsequential to the rest of the BW plot line to be such a damn big deal. Iris got a bit of training for her Pokemon (like Axew, who needs it if he wants to evolve).

    Seriously when it comes to the Don Battle tournament, I think no matter who won people would be bitching about the outcome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer_Gabriel View Post
    I have to wonder what the writers have in store for Iris at this point. Aside from evolving Axew, I'm not sure what else can be done with her character.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Deino episode will somehow improve her ongoing character growth.
    I want to know what they have in store or Iris as well. She needs more dragons and more battles for Axew. I think the Deino episode will at least show a more vulnerable nicer side, since everyone and their moms have been complaining she's too tough.


    I don't have a problem with Iris' character except for one thing. I would have like the writers to not wrap up her problem with Emolga and Excadrill so easily. After what may have been years of neglect, I think Excadrill should have opened up to her slowly with the win at the Don Battle Tournament being an important stepping stone. The resolutions with her Pokemon's behavioral problems are a little too quick for my liking. However, the writers have a history of doing that with other characters.

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  15. #210

    Default Re: Do you think the writers are doing enough with Iris?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catzeye View Post
    Sorry, I had to do a double take on that. I didn't know Cilan needed to improve on anything. What with his various gags and he wins most of his battles while learning new moves on the spot (Dwebble and Pansage in it's upcoming battle).
    Dento has said he wants to learn more about Ash's style, to better himself as a Connoisseur...thereby justifying his presence in the group. Dento's Pokemon learning new moves doesn't break the suspension of disbelief, because they were always protrayed as strong Pokemon, unlike Kibago. Plus there's the fact that Dento has actually lost more than he's won as well.

    It's a stark difference than Iris, whose over-glorified background had her undefeated in the past winning a tournament. Then she goes on to win another tournament, showing up the main of the show...primarily using Pokemon not tied to her goal at all, as well as already being shown to handle more powerful Dragon type Pokemon. So all the writers are really doing is bringing her closer, and closer to sue-ville everytime she get's focus.

    Iris' presence in the group is less justified given that all she did was bitch at Ash(though I will admit this has died down considerably), complain about how annoying Dento was/is, has all the qualities of a Dragon Master, and her super-special protrayal.
    Last edited by Masurao; 31st October 2011 at 09:44 AM.

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