Iris skills and knowledge about dragon types helped to resolution of BW 30th episode making Amy more capable as trainer aswell merit going to her for Axew learning dragon rage thanks to invested effort prior to that.
Originally Posted by Hellion
Iris being able to admit her own fault of not understanding Excadrill feelings allowed for bond between trainer and pokemon to become established again helping him to learn focus blast.
Her curiosity and some sort of "sixth sense"contributed to resolution of plot in BW 14 episode by revealing true cause behind Yamask getting angry.
Iris is also displaying her knowledge about pokemon battling in general on frequent basis being active in one way or another in other episodes which doesnt focus on her despite not battling.
Having team full of disobedient and unstable pokemon doesnt make her faux action girl with her activity being decreased because of limited number of options she had on her disposal.If she had obedient pokmon from start she would battle little more presumably.
Faux action girl is usually someone who is showed in competent light being knowledgeable and capable without displaying those qualities when situation calls for it.
Exactly, again you're proving my point. She's there to encourage Emmy, you're constantly reminded throughout the episode that she's knowledgeable, confident, capable, but when it comes down to it... Emmy and Satoshi are doing the heavy lifting while Iris watches, and only when Team Rocket's pokémon are down does she actually get on the action, but does nothing as Team Rocket escape.
This dosnt apply to Iris in this episode considering how:
a)she helped Amy to grow as trainer utilizing her knowledge and understanding about dragon types when teaching her how to properly battle with Druddigon,identifying dragon rage etc
b)didnt stand on sidelines actually helping to resolution of plot indirectly with merit going to her because of dragon trainer being able to battle with her pokemon properly
c)being active when trying to save Axew and Druddigon from TR as well credit going to her because of Axew mastering dragon rage.
Her pokemon being able to learn new attack is testament to her skills as dragon trainer and knowledge about them thanks to her patient approach when training dragon types knowing what is best way to raise them which she shared with Amy.
In order for character to be active he doesnt need always to risk his life and battle with there existing many other ways through which he can contribute.
Your reading between lines in here.It was also revealed how Iris was unable to read her pokemon feelings properly not understanding when its time to stop causing Excadrill to lose faith in his trainer not wanting to disappoint her anymore,.
Not at all. The entire episode portrays Doryuuzu misunderstanding Iris's encouragements, and that's what Dento's saying, but then, after losing, Doryuuzu realizes she had cared all along and that she was right about training harder after a loss. Basically, this episode was a tribute at how Doryuuzu was wrong about Iris, with Iris being shown as doing nothing wrong, and that any other trainer that cares about his pokémon would have acted the same way she did. She apologizes for something that Dento has already told her isn't her fault.
Iris flaw was in fact of not understanding her pokemon feelings well enough to prevent Excadrilll from becoming disobedient in first place as well being unable to figure out what was problem for all this years.She knew something wasnt done right but never came to realization what was root of problem.
Fact that Dento needed to point out what was cause of problem showed how little Iris actually knew about her pokemon being unable to understand Excadrill feelings being willing to admit how it was her fault of not knowing better.
That right here was treated as her flaw having a lot to learn in that aspect.
One doesnt exclude the other.
But neither Doryuuzu or Emonga are/were disobedient because of Iris, but because of themselves with Iris being shown to do nothing wrong.
Iris lack of authority and too passive approach of not being strong enough is causing Emolga to do whatever she please,while with Excadrill her failure to understand his feelings caused that problem happens in first place.
That's because the writers haven't portrayed Iris as having any flaws, doing any mistakes, and that they've already shown her to be a very knowledgeable and capable trainer, and already having all the capacities of a Dragon Master. There's nowhere for her to go because the writer have cut off any and all avenues of developement with her character.
Care to explain?
Not even content with that, they're also using Iris to stunt the developement of other storylines, like Satoshi and Shooti.
And thy have done more or less successful job for me growing found of her character after her caring side was exposed restoring long time lost connection with Excadrill providing nice emotional touch to whole resolution.
There is more than one way to develop a character and more than one role a character can play, but the writers have already decided on the role Iris is playing in Best Wishes, as the pathos provider.
Granted it was rushed not being done excellently but i actually started to care more for Iris character.
As expected this wont leave same impression on everyone with you not finding anything appealing or worthy to root for but that doesnt apply to everyone.
Im not sure from where you get such impression but each of problems surrounding Iris pokemon is in one way or another connected with her character with problems deriving from her as well.
I also agree that characters that are already knowledgeable, capable, strong in their field CAN be developed through other factors, the problem with Iris is... there are no other factors. The writers are tieing what they try to pass of as developement to her pokémon and her quest, while already showing her as making no mistakes in that area, with the fault totally being rejected on her pokémon and she's just waiting for them to get their act together to match her level.
Factors through which she can be developed further are:
-not being able to understand her pokemon feelings properly which often leads to mistakes being made as mole example showed.
-lack of authority and too passive approach when it comes to train her own pokemon
-rather high doze of immaturity not being able to take herself any critic.
Through problems which are ignited by her pokemon and character itself Iris can grow in sense of becoming more experienced trainer leaning how to understand her pokemon properly becoming closer with them,learning how to accept constrictive critic not viewing it as personal attack but way of someone providing his help becoming more mature,finding in what way she can accomplish her dram if becoming dragon master becoming more confident in her abilities as trainer as well becoming more knowledgeable in general.
Iris may have showed talent and some knowledge when it comes to her skill as trainer but it will take a lot more than that in order to catch up with Drayden and become dragon master one day as well fulfilling tasks of evolving Axew.
She still has alot to learn how to improve more as trainer just like this applies to any other character.
Its not like writers havent invested effort in making changes which happened in BW justified and better defined as well.Difference between AG and Unova is that in this case writers are trying to implement changes through several minor plots and components as opposed to one big change like contests were in Hoenn back than.,
Originally Posted by Shinneth
Like with Iris situation for example.I know you disagree with this but i find their attempt of keeping her storyline hide compared to previous girl examples where all plots were revealed relatively early to be more or less successfully done making her character to stand out/be different from others.
They purposely waited with her goal and problems with her pokemon being revealed introducing hints which had ambiguous meaning leaving audience to interpret it in their own way serving as some sort of foreplay.
Same with problems surrounding her pokemon,they portrayed it in manner of making it seem like problems are deriving both from them and Iris as trainer herself drawing parallel/connection between her and their flaws.
Like with Excadrill for example,some may get impression how problem was only caused by himself because of not wanting to disappoint its trainer but as its been revealed Iris had connection with it being partially responsible as well considering how she failed to understand her own pokemon feelings not knowing when its time to stop which caused such state of things.
Problem with Johto wasnt so much in lack of second quest but more in fact of writers at that time being inexperienced with several things not knowing how to handle things properly.This was their first longer saga which needed to be stretched for 3 years finding themselves in front of a wall.
Johto, despite not being the longest arc of the show, honestly felt like the longest to many fans, myself included, because there was no secondary quest alongside Ash's, and Ash's quest alone just couldn't adequately fill three to four years' worth of episodes.
They had workable group of main characters which was already iconic and popular but unfortunately they didnt used them to full potential not having enough knowledge to execute storyline in proper manner while giving more of arole to other characters beside Ash which would gave effectively reduce number of fillers making plot more coherent.
Co-star role may have had some potential left in it to try it out for another region but fact of the matter is how pokemon anime is in reality just one giant marketing tool through which new games are being promoted.
So with Contests gone in Gen V and no one wanting a third Coordinator in Ash's posse, this was the only part of the show's formula that needed a change in my opinion. However, I don't believe the need for change was as dire as it was a decade ago. DP pretty much perfected the co-star formula with Ash and Dawn (no doubt the best way to stretch the anime out for 4 years without getting horrifically stale), but for whatever reason the writers decided to go back to basics by giving only Ash the center stage. While I don't oppose that decision, I do think it wasn't really necessary because I don't believe the co-star formula had gotten worn out or anything.
Most of changes which happened in anime is result of BW games experiencing several adjustments and changes making it as more of a fresh start than it was case before.
With writers attempt of mirroring games this was probably reason behind Brock being axed and new character getting added as well contests being gone with formula going back to Ash as only co-star with two gym leaders/supporting characters)being his companions.
I gather how there will most likely be made some filler arc similar to how Battle Frontier was after Unova ends in order to fill up gap until new games get released.
A lot of my speculation for the motives behind the creative decisions of BW are just educated guesses, admittedly, since it's pretty apparent that BW's pace is much faster than DP's, and since we don't know what else is in store for us in Gen V as of now, we can't hazard a guess how they'll stretch BW out to four years if they keep at the pace they're going now (seriously, we could be through 5 gyms by the end of this year).
I doubt BW will manage to last for four years,especially with current pacing which is considerably faster compared to get go DP.
As long viewers are interested in those changes welcoming them, writers new approach is in reality paying of at very end.
However, what the creative staff is doing with BW largely lacks rhyme or reason to it. Contests were brought in because the show direly needed a fresh concept, and since effort was put in to said concept, Contests were well-accepted additions to the anime. With BW, they changed a lot more than the status quo and axing the secondary quest; changes that weren't necessary to keep the show fresh, and because of the lazy handling of these changes, it results in poor writing that leaves us with many unjustified characters and events. These were risks that didn't need to be taken (the way I see it) and consequently they aren't paying off.
Pokemon anime was never some especially complex show with deep and well executed storyline being primarily made for children.However from time to time writers flourish in true sense of that word mantaining quality while making sure that their priority of show not losing entertainment value stays intact.
You may see changes like Ash catching more pokemon than usual starting to rotating them to be nus-product of poor writing but i view it as nice attempt of making Ash growth as trainer more believable allowing for bigger variety when choosing pokemon allowing for two parallel teams.
Some may find Team Rocket being taken to higher level not serving only as comic relief anymore to be terrible way from writers side but i actually appreciate how they finally get to play some important role which directly influence plot being more important.
Same with Iris and Cilan.I welcome new approach which is taken with Iris character introducing several plots which in some way or another are connected between themselves giving writers to have more options at their disposal and in what way they can take her character to develop her more which adds to overall unpredictability.
Sure some mistakes and rushed development is expected to follow after something new is for first time being tried out but so far writers did more good than bad in my opinion making Unova series to be acceptable from my point of view.
Agreed,but its much more desired if its harder to expect what will happen next in this show adding to overall enjoyment especially if some suspense is being build from start.
And for the record, predictability isn't always a bad thing. This is a kids show and always has been, so predictability will always be present in Pokemon no matter what series we're in. But predictability rarely hampers my ability to enjoy the series as long as it's pulled off well. Like it's predictable that Ash will beat 8 Gym Leaders and qualify for the region's league; that's painfully obvious, but as long as the battles are enjoyable, then predictability really isn't any issue here.
Thats why i liked Orange Islands,it was completely anime exclusive arc not existing anywhere in games allowing writers to release their creativity with whole concept of gym leaders,league and region location being something new and unexpected being hard to tell what you can expect next.Compared to game regions where you can get some rough picture of possible future outcomes being needed in that case to add some twists in already established routine which anime needs to follow in order to keep audience interested in it.
Depends how you look at it,personally i find several plots in her story which overlap with each other to be writers attempt of making her story more complex giving more substance to it.
The series' determination to not make Iris "predictable" has so far not done her any favors from what I've seen. All of these plot twists that reveal Iris being anything but what you'd expect her to be (given her behavior before these big reveals contradict it and it's never adequately explained) just make her harder to comprehend... and consequently, harder to like.
Even some Iris fans admit that the Excadrill subplot was not well-handled, and a lot of that was due to the fact that it didn't follow the so-called "predictable" phases of this sort of subplot.
And as far as Iris behavior goes i like her hyperactive and energetic nature being somehow wild and invasive about pokemon but also showing to have caring side and "good heart"which can be noticed in her express of feelings toward Excadrill and Axew,going out of her way to save Emolga as well starting to respect Ash as trainer more using her catchphrase less often in his case with friendship within her and main group gradually growing.
I will agree how Excadrill plot was rushed with writers cramping too many things in too short period of time but final product of it was executed well imo successfully re-establishing bond between Iris and pokemon giving it some development.
Maybe its not visible on first glance but some growth contrary to some belief did happened in it.
I dont hate it,i just find it pointless and unneeded.
You're like the only person I've ever seen who's hated the entire concept of shuffling the main cast between series.
As for other question,many feel that way preferring keeping instead of shuffling just not being very vocal about it in here while being opposite in some other places.
I suppose we can agree to disagree on this.
Only if they're doing a good job with it, which I don't believe they are. Most of the time it doesn't feel like the writers are trying because of the lack of effort being put into justifying so many of these changes. And I don't like to give props for laziness, honestly.