Do you think the show has improved since Kanto? - Page 3

View Poll Results: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

Voters
124. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, the new seasons are definitely better.

    37 29.84%
  • No, the first season will always be the best season.

    15 12.10%
  • It has improved in some ways but not in others.

    72 58.06%
Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 140

Thread: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

  1. #31

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    This whole thread is making me wonder one thing: what is this 'Kanto feel' anyway?

    Really, we talk about reclaiming it and so on and so forth but there's no real confirmation over what it even is. I've seen someone say slapstick but there are many shows that have slapstick that don't feel like Kanto. I know nostalgia is an obvious answer but there are people who talk negitively of it and there are various posts from people who use the phase that show a complete lack of nostalgia. It can't be the original trio since they were kept in Johto and that has a very different feel (even if you remove all the fillers.)

    Why does the show have to feel like Kanto anyway? DP was the best season and that was almost as far from Kanto you can get without it stopping being pokemon. Both Johto and Best Wishes appear to be trying to be like Kanto and are the worst seasons yet... though Johto less so and in all honesty there's at least some honesty in Johto's rubbish moments, like it knows it could be better whereas Best Wishes is more...

    The fillers in Best Wishes tend to pretend to not be fillers. They put in captures for pokemon you never see again. The Gym episodes feel more filler like thanks to the downhill path of the battles.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    The Kanto feel was the slapstick humor. Brock punched Misty in the head, Misty kicked Brock in the face, TR would beat each other up, Meowth would scratch Jessie and James faces.

    Also real guns were a plus back then. You felt like anything could haopen.

    Orange started to do away with this and by the time Johto started it was gone.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    The "first season/series was better” mantra can be heard in almost every fandom. What you have to take note of is that the majority of people who say that are either nostalgia goggle wearers who quickly stopped watching the show after that point or people who don't like watching shows that last several years. But there are some people who do genuinely love the first season/series of a show the most, have also watched the seasons that came after, and can come up with valid points as to why one is better than the other. I only take the latter seriously. The people with “first is always better" biased mindset who can't argue their way out of a wet paper bag are quite easy to point out.

  4. #34
    ♥Allelujah Haptism♥ FinalArcadia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Celestial Being
    Posts
    2,837
    Blog Entries
    56
    Follow FinalArcadia On Twitter
    Follow FinalArcadia on Tumblr Visit FinalArcadia's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    It got worse in Johto, but steadily picked up speed in Advanced and really got great in DP. So it has improved...up to a point. Best Wishes is kind of "meh" a lot of the time (Cilan is the biggest redeeming factor), but is still better than Johto and maybe even Kanto (Cilan makes all the difference to me).

    So yes, it has mostly improved since Kanto, but to varying degrees at different times.

  5. #35
    Blooming for 3000 years Kyriaki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Hoenn
    Posts
    8,392
    Blog Entries
    345

    Follow Kyriaki on Tumblr

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    AG and DP was a yes, but Unova is not.

    Let's just all agree that DP was the best.

  6. #36
    XXXXXXXXXX Dragon Char's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Tower of Mastery
    Posts
    4,871
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    How things impress upon us is definitely affected by when and how we see them. There are a lot of things that I liked from my childhood, but I do realize that I probably wouldn't like it now since my standards have changed since then. It could be that people just aren't willing to give the other seasons a chance since the fandom diminished so greatly during Johto. That is what I think is the true "magic". People remember pokemon's heyday, and they just can't look past it. There are some things to which I will say I have been guilty of holding the earlier iterations on a pedestal, and never giving newer ones a try. I have since gotten over a lot of those and found myself better for the experience. (none of those had to do with pokemon) I won't necessarily say it's a bad thing, but it can really skew how you view things. It may never leave you, but I will also say it's part of what defines you as a person. Just be aware that just because that's how you thought as a kid doesn't mean that it's true now.
    Step into the Fairy circle

  7. #37

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    So and so. We have seen the best(Hoenn, BF, and maybe Unova) and the worst(OI, Johto, and Sinnoh) in post-Kanto. I don't think any of those regions will ever top Kanto, maybe Gen 6 region, but dats it
    Too many limes, too many limes.

  8. #38
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Croatia.
    Posts
    2,836
    Blog Entries
    23

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    This whole thread is making me wonder one thing: what is this 'Kanto feel' anyway?

    Really, we talk about reclaiming it and so on and so forth but there's no real confirmation over what it even is. I've seen someone say slapstick but there are many shows that have slapstick that don't feel like Kanto. I know nostalgia is an obvious answer but there are people who talk negitively of it and there are various posts from people who use the phase that show a complete lack of nostalgia. It can't be the original trio since they were kept in Johto and that has a very different feel (even if you remove all the fillers.)
    People who prefer Kanto over new series from what i noticed isnt because of slapstick humor and nostalgia only, but many other factors as well like different tone and purpose anime used to have before. It isnt only Kanto either, because not so rare you can find claims for Orange Islands and to lesser extent Johto to be superior to new seasons too,with people liking whole original series in general over AG and DP.
    Nostalgia plays some part in it because it can be very powerful thing,with older series making them remember of days of their childhood when everything about pokemon was still fresh and new just starting out.
    But its hardly main reason why they prefer them to this days,with many of those fans giving chance to new seasons.
    Many people who prefer original over new seasons is mostly because they preferred different style of writing which anime had before. Back than formula was more focused on relationship between humans and less on pokemon themselves. Show used to had different comedy and writers stick less to games straying away from them quite a bit. Plots used to be more wacky, there was more reference to Japan culture and even use of real guns wasnt so rare. Orange Islands also felt very out of place having unique characters,different gyms and in reality whole format of competitions.

    They preferred original cast more over others finding they worked very well between themselves, having natural chemistry and acting like close and genuine group of friends. People enjoyed in Ash immaturity, Misty flamboyant and sarcastic nature, Brock eccentric side and humor he brought etc.
    And i can say on good measure they kept their entertainment value through Johto as well with all three starting to mature and be closer as friends, while still retaining their charm and humor being portrayed as close group of friends.

    Lastly they preferred that anime back than had more emotion invested into it with things being much more simple, compared to today when pokemon revolves around marketing and promotion of new games in bigger measure.

    Its just matter of personal preference, nothing more.

    Why does the show have to feel like Kanto anyway? DP was the best season and that was almost as far from Kanto you can get without it stopping being pokemon. Both Johto and Best Wishes appear to be trying to be like Kanto and are the worst seasons yet... though Johto less so and in all honesty there's at least some honesty in Johto's rubbish moments, like it knows it could be better whereas Best Wishes is more...
    I wouldnt say DP was best season, in fact it was far from it imo being overrated.
    As for Johto to me it never really seemed like attempt to recreate Kanto and i doubt this was writers intention. It was more supposed to be treated as continuation using group which proved to be successful. However due to writing inexperience in handling properly long regions and poor writing that didnt worked out very well.

    BW on other hand tries hard to be like Kanto, going back to two sidekicks, having Ash regressed as trainer compared to his days in DP etc.and it fails at it for two reasons. Writing style has changed completely since than and you cant recreate same dynamic with different cast which works with Ash on different level.

    But in nutshell i agree, anime doesnt need to be like Kanto and using such approach is wrong on so many levels. Each series should be distinct from each other having something specific for them, instead of trying to copy something from past being doomed to end up as disaster from start.

  9. #39
    Registered User VTP-Dawkins93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    South-East England
    Posts
    111
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 123
    Many people who prefer original over new seasons is mostly because they preferred different style of writing which anime had before. Back than formula was more focused on relationship between humans and less on pokemon themselves.
    Going through the episode list for the Indigo League and Orange Islands, I don't think is the case. The focus tended to be on the relationship between humans and Pokemon and different ways they interacted and effected each other, which is the main theme the games try to get across. I think the change you're referring to is that latter seasons focused a lot more on the battling and actual training of Pokemon and less on the actual adventure and experiences it brings to the characters.

    Perhaps it's the continuity between regions that kills this "Kanto feel". Viewers would have already seen Ash travel through regions, collect badges and compete in big tournament at the end. It's not a new experience for the character, despite the change in environment, so it wouldn't be a new experience for the viewers, either. This is maybe one thing the writers failed to impove upon over time: keeping their main character fresh and giving him new, unique experiences.

  10. #40
    Mutha'uckas CrackFox's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Hope's Peak Academy
    Posts
    6,208
    Blog Entries
    119

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    That can't really be answered with a simple yes or no. The truth is, yes and no. I definitely enjoy it less than I did but that's heavily due to being a fan back in the old days. Nostaglia can overshadow the best show in the World. The writing got more intricate as time went on. It was a good idea to introduce a prominent role for the female sidekick and contests were a great new angle. The Pokemon got better and more varied and the battles became much more intense. Although they made a lot of improvement since Kanto the main thing I miss about it to this day is the lack of humor that's around now. Admittedly DP was the real culprit for this and they've picked it up a lot for BW. but still the old days of slap-stick TR and stupid Ash are behind it and to me, Pokemon will never be quite as good simply because of that. The main thing that attracted me to Pokemon was the fantastic humor.

    Maybe it was nostalgia, but there's plenty of other cartoons I liked at that age, that I can look back on now and admit they weren't all that great in hindsight. I can't with Pokemon, the original trio worked too well. I think they've kind of realized that now, and they're trying to create the same feel with BW. More humor, Pokemon with wacky characteristics, and a female who doesn't take over the show so much. In my opinion, it's a winning formula.

    THE WAR ROOM
    ~ The home of Mafia and Non-Mafia games.
    Art tumblr

  11. #41
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,790

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Yes it has improved in certain ways. I know people don't like Unova due to the fact that it seems like it's on a different level from what DP and AG was, but Unova is better than Kanto anyday.








    P.S.- This is my opinion only. Doesn't mean that it's true. Please I need no arguements. I'm trying to get over forums anxiety from last year dealing with other topics. I don't want to relapse.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Quote Originally Posted by MizuTaipu View Post
    Many video game and anime fans all over the internet state that "the first season of Pokémon was the best, the new seasons are terrible." I'm curious to know what Bulbagarden members think. Do you believe that the show has improved since Kanto (as in storylines, humor, character development, etc.)?
    You do realize the people who say this have likely never watched a single episode of Pokemon since their childhood? The vast majority of ratings from the original seasons came from people who were just swept up in the fad of pokemon and watched it because every kid did. After the fad died somewhere in mid-Johto, they simply lost interest and moved on to whatever else.

    Any childhood fad series is like this, just look at Power Rangers, Ninja Turtles, Dragonball Z, or anything else that was insanely popular when it first began...and then after the fad died only the true fans remained for later incarnation.

    I think most pokemon fans will always enjoy Kanto for what it is, the rest of the series would exist without it. However the format of the show changed so much that you can see where it evolved. Unfortunately Best Wishes did seem to take a step back, but I am reserving judgement until it actually ends.

  13. #43
    Dragon Blossom MizuTaipu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Purgatory
    Posts
    1,327
    Blog Entries
    65

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MizuTaipu View Post
    Many video game and anime fans all over the internet state that "the first season of Pokémon was the best, the new seasons are terrible." I'm curious to know what Bulbagarden members think. Do you believe that the show has improved since Kanto (as in storylines, humor, character development, etc.)?
    You do realize the people who say this have likely never watched a single episode of Pokemon since their childhood? The vast majority of ratings from the original seasons came from people who were just swept up in the fad of pokemon and watched it because every kid did. After the fad died somewhere in mid-Johto, they simply lost interest and moved on to whatever else.
    I've seen some people state: "omg i just watched a new episode of pokeman and it was crappy." Of course, they never state why it was crappy, but there you go.

  14. #44
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Croatia.
    Posts
    2,836
    Blog Entries
    23

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Quote Originally Posted by VTP-Dawkins93 View Post
    Going through the episode list for the Indigo League and Orange Islands, I don't think is the case. The focus tended to be on the relationship between humans and Pokemon and different ways they interacted and effected each other, which is the main theme the games try to get across. I think the change you're referring to is that latter seasons focused a lot more on the battling and actual training of Pokemon and less on the actual adventure and experiences it brings to the characters.

    Perhaps it's the continuity between regions that kills this "Kanto feel". Viewers would have already seen Ash travel through regions, collect badges and compete in big tournament at the end. It's not a new experience for the character, despite the change in environment, so it wouldn't be a new experience for the viewers, either. This is maybe one thing the writers failed to impove upon over time: keeping their main character fresh and giving him new, unique experiences.
    I guess thats one way you can look at it. Nowadays pokemon themselves are getting more focus,more training and better battles. But back than pokemon was more about exploring world,having Ash,Misty and Brock portrayed as group which discovered new regions and pokemon having fun together. Their dialogue and interacting was natural and spontaneous not seeming forced and this was probably one of main reasons why so many people liked them in Kanto and Johto. Granted Johto felt different from Kanto in many aspects,but to many original trio still felt like family and i cant deny it when looking back.

    I also have to admit how original series had generally more touching and easy to come to viewers heart feeling.Like "Bye Bye Butterfree", goodbye scene with Pikachu,when Ash was turned into stone, when Misty left cast(one of most impacting and sad scenes),when Latios died,etc,et.

    Speaking of emotions i also remember back in day pokemon themselves also used to be fleshed out better in personality aspect. Nowadays pokemon individually are treated better with almost everyone having its character explored,but before while writers only focused on few groups pokemon i felt they done better job at portrayal of their characterization and feelings.

    I suppose reason why in original series it can be noticed such discrepancy emotionally wise with characters themselves having more tearing moments,was because of different tone . Aside from formula being focused more on humans and their relationship,going by ex head writer mr,Shudo pokemon was also initially attempted to be written as family show in which all generations could find something to relate to and enjoy.
    Thats why back than promotion of games fall in second plan too with writers being more bold in taking anime of route, adding more of their own imagination into it.

    About continuity it may be,but to many Ash felt fresh in Hoenn when becoming more mature taking mentor role to May, or when he tried to conquer battle Frontier coming out as winner in end. You could tell he grew and developed as trainer until Unova when he was regressed to some extent,and lack of continuity having older companions(like Misty, May,Brock etc. abandoned and forgotten) is damaging reputation pokemon as series used to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by MizuTaipu View Post
    I've seen some people state: "omg i just watched a new episode of pokeman and it was crappy." Of course, they never state why it was crappy, but there you go.
    THIS.
    I cant count number of times where i heard many people saying how they gave chance to new series still preferring original series over it. Many of them claim how pokemon had better chemistry when original trio was around wanting them back, how show wasnt only marketing tool and how writers used to be more creative.

    They also often state how bad decisions from writers are responsible for "new series" having only fraction of demographic, pokemon used to had when it was on peak of popularity.

    Now personally while i prefer older seasons,i also liked a lot Hoenn and DP having many good things going for them. I also cant deny how writing in pokemon also improved on so many levels since Kanto days,and while they are not superior in every aspect(with there being lot of room to fix some things) new series have their qualities.

  15. #45
    The Coolest! jokool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Here.
    Posts
    2,112
    Blog Entries
    91

    Visit jokool's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Do you think the show has improved since Kanto?

    Quote Originally Posted by MizuTaipu View Post
    Many video game and anime fans all over the internet state that "the first season of Pokémon was the best, the new seasons are terrible." I'm curious to know what Bulbagarden members think.
    Funny how there hasn't been a single vote for "No, the first season will always be the best season."

    Do you believe that the show has improved since Kanto (as in storylines, humor, character development, etc.)?
    Kanto was good, but the show did improve in some areas as it moved along.

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •