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  1. #796
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    I want Ash gone because I don't watch shows without endings. If there is no conclusion and the series is never-ending then that's not what I watch. Its a serialized series, its not like Simpsons or kids shows like Spongebob or Looney Tunes that can go on forever based on comedy or ridiculous things.

    It's a serialized journey with a clear beginning, middle, and hopefully an end.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    There's a clear beginning to Ash's journey, but I'm not sure if there has been any middle stage yet considering that he's seventh Gym badge collecting journey. Technically speaking, there have been three endings already to each of the previous series. It's one long story of Ash traveling around, but there are separate series. Ash leaving wouldn't mean the end of the anime though. They would just do basically the same thing with a new character, although I still don't think that's ever going to happen at this point. I don't think that they would give Ash a really great conclusion to his story anyway. I doubt that he would get to challenge the Elite 4 or the Champion of the Elite 4. Even in DP where he was at his peak in terms of his skills as a trainer, I couldn't see him doing that. He and Pikachu would just go off to an unnamed region to capture more Pokemon and meet new friends.

    Personally, I don't mind Ash's story not having a conclusion. While I generally do prefer endings with a sense of closure, I don't really expect that from Pokemon. I don't think I ever did, aside from when I thought that the series would end after Ash competed in the Pokemon League back when I first started watching the series. I see it as an endless journey and I don't really mind that. There are quite a few shows that don't have endings, although those are usually due to cancellations or leaving the door open enough for a new season, so I don't really see the problem of watching shows without a clear ending.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    There's a clear beginning to Ash's journey, but I'm not sure if there has been any middle stage yet considering that he's seventh Gym badge collecting journey. Technically speaking, there have been three endings already to each of the previous series. It's one long story of Ash traveling around, but there are separate series. Ash leaving wouldn't mean the end of the anime though. They would just do basically the same thing with a new character, although I still don't think that's ever going to happen at this point. I don't think that they would give Ash a really great conclusion to his story anyway. I doubt that he would get to challenge the Elite 4 or the Champion of the Elite 4. Even in DP where he was at his peak in terms of his skills as a trainer, I couldn't see him doing that. He and Pikachu would just go off to an unnamed region to capture more Pokemon and meet new friends.
    The beginning is Ash as a rookie and the start of the show (Kanto/Orange/Johto)

    The middle is Ash becoming a mature experienced trainer, along with the addition of Contests (AG and DP)

    The end will hopefully be Best Wishes and... ????


    Either way the show does have a clear format. Once the show ends someday we can look back on it. Ash's story needs a conclusion.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    I don't really see Ash relatable because the mistakes he makes are unrealistic and he is kinda lacking in the emotion department which is very unbecoming of a Shonen protanginist

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    The beginning is Ash as a rookie and the start of the show (Kanto/Orange/Johto)

    The middle is Ash becoming a mature experienced trainer, along with the addition of Contests (AG and DP)

    The end will hopefully be Best Wishes and... ????


    Either way the show does have a clear format. Once the show ends someday we can look back on it. Ash's story needs a conclusion.
    Considering that I don't think Ash is going to be replaced at either the end of BW or the end of the fifth series, I don't know if that's a clear middle stage to his journey. Aside from your desire to have an ending, I don't see why Ash's story needs a conclusion. Given the way they've handled the conclusion of the other characters in the series, he isn't going to become a Pokemon Master. Even with the characters who had better conclusions, like May and Dawn, they still didn't accomplish their goals and their endings involved the characters either going on to work on reaching their goal or going towards a new goal all together. Despite being the main character, I couldn't see the writers doing something really amazing with Ash's ending. I can only see them having Ash and Pikachu going to a new unnamed region and running off into the sunset. Besides that, if the writers really cared about giving Ash's story a conclusion, they would have gotten rid of him years ago. By the time a new series starts, he would be the main character for sixteen or seventeen years, depending on if they start the sixth generation series by next year or not. They aren't going to replace the main star after over fifteen years.
    pokemon fan 132 likes this.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I want Ash gone because I don't watch shows without endings. If there is no conclusion and the series is never-ending then that's not what I watch. Its a serialized series, its not like Simpsons or kids shows like Spongebob or Looney Tunes that can go on forever based on comedy or ridiculous things.

    It's a serialized journey with a clear beginning, middle, and hopefully an end.
    Im sure there will be provided some sort of finale when pokemon finally comes to an end, so im not sure why its so important that anime ends right now? Besides this show was always based more on journey rather than destination, with there not existing any reason to hurry things out. Sooner or later Ash adventures are going to be concluded. It may not be in next 5, 10 or even more years but its only matter of time when this show will stop airing giving to us long awaited ending , so why not enjoy in ride in meantime following all new adventures and way Ash develops in future?

    Why not end pokemon with Ash who started out whole thing in first place, serving as nice way to bring things coming full circle? He is enough popular and iconic for such thing being main driving force and i don't see any point in replacing him with someone else just to take up job current protagonists gets done more than good enough. Especially after being in anime for 15 years, being pointless to start out completely new series after so much time. It would have made sense if writers decided to get rid of Ash after OS wrapping up on era of pokemon, but after decade and half might as well wait until very end and finish things up with Ash and if we are lucky enough giving older characters one final hura treating it as one big continuity being set in same timeline and universe.

    Getting rid of Ash and starting out with someone else will only prolong pokemon show even more, so its rather counter productive to advocate for complete revamp of anime and start out from zero for those which want that things come to an end.

    Ash will get his ending(God knows it will be flimsily one), but it doesn't need to happen now nor his current development and way he is treated really allows for proper and solid departure. He is miles away from E4 strength, let alone pokemon master level. He never achieved something big enough to be considered as making giant leap forward to even allow for character to have some sense of closure.
    Even in DP where Ash was arguably at highest point so far, he still wasn't developed enough to allow for good conclusion with there existing much more to be done with character. Showcasing of E4 members, Brandon and various other strong trainers wasn't any foreshadowing for Ash confronting them in future either, but rather writers way of sending message to viewers with easy defeats how Ash only climbed one step forward still having long way to go to come even close to fulfillment of pokemon master dream.

    Not to mention Ash is too valuable and popular to get rid of him and expect how such move wont bring any negative repercussions for show and franchise in general.Brock, Dawn, even TR(which isn't known yet for sure if they will leave) are small fishes not being comparable to driving force of this show around who whole story revolves. Writers would have to take enormous risk in replacing Ash and doing rehash of current pokemon show which already established its brand among people, which might backfire on them easily. So its understandable why are they using safer and smarter route continuing on with something which was proved to be unmistakable recipe to go by if you want to make profit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Aside from your desire to have an ending, I don't see why Ash's story needs a conclusion. Given the way they've handled the conclusion of the other characters in the series, he isn't going to become a Pokemon Master. Even with the characters who had better conclusions, like May and Dawn, they still didn't accomplish their goals and their endings involved the characters either going on to work on reaching their goal or going towards a new goal all together.
    Agreed, its pretty much obvious how this writers aren't known for giving good and proper endings to main characters. So even if Ash does leave(hypothetically speaking)his story likely wont be brought to resolution being left on open note.

    Now that i think about it, how many characters actually got conclusion? Aside from Tracey no one really .May and Dawn to lesser extent did, but they still left on open ended note. Misty was just forced to take care of gym out of obligation with goal of water master being left unfinished not being set up what are future plans, while Max is going to stay at home for rest of anime never starting out journey and getting first pokemon.

    At best i can see Ash wining pokemon league, perhaps challenge E4 failing miserably at it continuing on for next region. Somehow im not terribly excited and impatient that this happens right now, not mattering to me if Ash journey will last for couple of more years. He is despite its flaws still fun character to me, you can tell writers didn't revealed all cards on table about his character and i would be interested in having him grow forward with writers continuing with adventures. Ending wont run off anywhere.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nattfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Which they already do for every new main character.
    Except that with Ash replacement they would also have to change complete set up and formula which current anime follows, constructing pokemon series from scratch creating new route through which character development will be taken doing complete revamp. There is also need to create new mascot, hire new VA,invent new background and design instead of just using footage they already have at their disposal modifying it a bit. Ash unlike other traveling companions is pokemon driving force and his replacing would require heavy retooling and lot of unneeded work.

    Seems to me like lot of pointless work just to bring new character which involves risk of not being accepted well among people lading to drop of ratings.
    And all this costs money and time. I can't think of single reason for a company to go around changing a brand as strong as pokemon. And yes I know the anime isn't the whole brand or even the biggest part. But it is the part where the target group gets to see their beloved pokemon as something more than sprites. They get to see them move, battle and interact with trainers and the environment around them. And that's a whole lot of appeal right there. And we have to remember that the anime series is about Ash's journey. Not Brocks or Mistys or Dawns or anyone else we've seen. It's Ash's journey so doing a big overhaul in all aspects of the anime,including the messy, expensive business parts, would be necessary to replace him.

    Ash has been around for 15 years and he still WORKS. He still brings in the viewers and as long as the pokemon series don't do badly enough to be considered a liability instead of an asset I don't think they would consider doing such a big overhaul in the series. Besides if that were to happen they would probably just put an end to the anime instead. *shrugs*
    This is not true at all. The only reason its Ash's journey now is he's the main character. The anime could go on for as long as the games do without Ash and it'd be the journey of whatever the next protagonist is.

    And what big overhaul do you keep refering to? You mean the same thing we see with each saga transition, where the main characters and Pokemon of the group are all changed? I love how you keep acting like this is some "huge expensive" thing, I don't think you know what you're claiming.

    Its going to cost money to write a new character, when they write new characters every gen? The only difference is they'll be paying the new VA a lot less than Satoshi's.

    Sorry about the late reply.

    The "huge expensive thing" I was talking about was the fact that Ash is and has been for the last 15 years a promotional character for the anime franchise. People recognize him and connect him with the pokemon anime, which means free advertisement. Switching Ash out would mean putting a new face on the anime and that's what would cost money. Not that making an anime is cheap anyway.

    If I'm reading you correctly you basically just want a new face on the main character?

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Sorry about the late reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post

    I'm not supporting ending Ash's story, but this is ridiculous
    They can easily start a brand new series without Ash if they'll only want to... no, it won't take "more time and money"
    If it was so easily done why not continue Pokemon Chronicles? Ash has promotional value, people connect him to the series and getting a new series reach the same value would take time and money.

    Officially, the DP series was "Ash and Dawn's story" - as written in the intro text on every opening theme in the Japanese version - while the others were just "Ash's story"
    So yes, it IS Dawn's story too, for the DP series... and while they didn't label it so officially, a good part of AG was also dedicated to May
    Anyway, Pokémon is mainly, before anything else, about... well, Pokémon
    If they'd ever want to replace Ash they can easily do it
    I'm not even against the idea, though I'm not really supporting it either
    I'm happy with Ash staying and I don't understand people who want him to be replaced, but I also don't like to see people who act as if replacing him is SO "impossible"... it's unlikely to happen, but not impossible to do if they wished to do it
    I never said it was impossible: I said that they shouldn't and stating my reasons as to why. Switching Ash out is just not logical to me. But you were right about Dawn.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    I personally don't think they should replace Ash, for reasons people have said: he and Pikachu are like a pair, he's been in for a long time, yada yada yada (I only read the first 40 posts...). However, there are two things that bug me about Ash: one, he never ages, which would be fine if they didn't say time had actually passed. That, however, isn't the real problem: he doesn't mature.
    Ash (apparently, I've never been good with character traits) went through this whole ordeal that was supposed to make him more mature. We go to Unova, then, and we have this girl calling him a 'little kid'. Misty, we wouldn't have a problem with it, since he was one back then. But after a whole saga with him maturing? Bull!
    My point is this: if they, essentially, turned back the clock and made Ash a 'little kid' again, then there isn't much difference then if they took Ash out, put in a new Trainer, and stuck him with a Pikachu. If they can do THAT, then they can just put in a new 'Ash'! As far as I can see, it has the same effect.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    most of the people who know who pikachu/ash is are already out of the target audience any ways. theres really no reason why the younger audience cant be drawn into liking a new main character even if he was an ash clone it would be even easier if he was unique. theres no reason why they can't put another sutably interesting pokemon forward and have pikachu replaced either.

    they are delaying it becuase they don;t want too / are kind of lazy to shake things up. but eventually they will have to even the younger audience will lose intereest if ash doesn;t keep improving each league.


    the way i figure it theres about 2-3 region/leagues before they will have absolutely no choice but change the main character thought they might do it early possably.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Other than getting to the Champion League, I don't see what more you can really do with Ash's character. It's been 15 years now, at least give him a League win. At least at that point it would see like his story is coming to an end.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    I hear people saying how new kids won't mind if Ash gets replaced with new character making no difference for them, but that is honestly big understatement to say.

    Ash is very popular among target audience too, more so than other main characters are with today kids associating pokemon series with him. In their eyes Ash is driving force of pokemon being too iconic and recognizable as mascot worldwide to expect how his leaving wont cause confusion among target audience, alienating them from new character with who they couldn't concatenate this show.

    Argument how target audience isn't attached to Ash contains only half of true in it, when taken in account how significant portion of today kids are fans which started watching pokemon in DP growing to like character.
    Just for comparison my nephew is only 9 years old and he could never picture pokemon without Ash and Pikachu viewing them as main faces of anime, and im sure many kids out there feel same way.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with Ash character already bringing appeal and money to show. Anime ratings are still fairly solid, sales are more than successful and there is nothing what new character could offer which Ash couldn't fulfill just as well. Even better because writers are already familiar with his character and what works having background which supports story, allowing them to go out of their shell and do more significant growth.
    Something which Ash could definitely use having potential to do much more than what we got currently.

    Artificial clams of Ash "being boring", "overused" etc doesn't hold any relevance because writers are perfectly capable of making their characters entertaining again, creating new and fresh twists to refresh someone story and warrant further stay. After all wouldn't it be far more exciting and unexpected if we saw Ash taken on new and better things, after he wins pokemon league challenging stronger trainers, fulfilling harder quests(than BF was) and building up on his strength one day achieving champion level.
    Winning one regional league isn't enough to become pokemon master and Ash journey don't need to end there. There could be created special quest along the lines of master league Ash would have to attend in order to achieve this dream.

    Instead of starting out from zero with new protagonist doing gym quest all over again depriving us of chance to follow further progress of already established character.

    We already know how gyms will always be main quest in games, how Pikachu as main mascot of pokemon franchise will never be replaced with something else so im not sure what is exactly good about getting rehashed version of Ash character doing same quest and having typical stereotype personality of rash and impulsive male protagonist(fits Ash description).

    Now i can understand some wanting that anime already ends, but since Ash was driving force from very start he should stay until end concluding long running show with same protagonist treating it as one continuous story.

    Ash is much more popular and decectable worldwide than some are willing to give him credit for, he is part of show for already 15 years with there not existing pokemon fan which didn't heard of him . He is basically to Pokemon what Goku was to DBZ, Luffy to One Piece, Naruto to Naruto etc.Replacing him after so long would cause lot of disappointment and shock among fanbase whether some want to admit it or not being too much of risk to do such drastic change now.

    Writers will continue to go with something which works, being intended to treat pokemon as one long running show with which generations of fans grew with . No one will want to follow alternate pokemon series which doesn't have brand established about them nor nearly as much impact like current anime does and they are aware of it .

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Pikachu is one of the mascots of the series. Ash can be replaced, eventually the writers will hit a wall with him and run out of excuses for him to win a league (and never get closer to his goal), for example. I don't see why exactly, given this series is a continuation, Ash shouldn't be written off.

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    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Masurao View Post
    Pikachu is one of the mascots of the series. Ash can be replaced, eventually the writers will hit a wall with him and run out of excuses for him to win a league (and never get closer to his goal), for example. I don't see why exactly, given this series is a continuation, Ash shouldn't be written off.
    But why limit ourselves only on character winning league and be over with it, when writers could take Ash forward building up on his story. There is much more to goal of pokemon master than just winning league, with anime leaving many things about how someone can achieve this and what does it truly mean unanswered.

    We could see writers putting Ash story in new and undiscovered role after he becomes league winner, creating future outlets through which he can advance making believable growth.
    Like accomplishing other side quests someone would need to conquer to achieve mastery over pokemon. Similar how BF was, but with much harder competition(league for masters comes to mind). Have him try to become champion, reveal more about his past(like father), have him involved in plot with legendary pokemon such as Ho.Oh being one of rare trainers which had privilege to see him several times etc.

    What would Ash replacement exactly accomplish? Aside from new face nothing really, since writers can with few tweaks bring new life to Ash quest, open new subplots and freshen up character through new development.

    Ash became integrated in pokemon after 15 years that many view him and Pikachu as inseparable pair, he is main face of pokemon anime and there doesn't really exist any incentive to get rid of him from financial and story standpoint.

    I have no problems with things coming to an end, but i rather want that anime ends with same character with who everything started like its case with Bakugan, DBZ, SailorMoon etc instead of chopping it in several alternate shows being turned in pageant which wont be remotely close to success current anime has.

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    Default Re: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post

    We could see writers putting Ash story in new and undiscovered role after he becomes league winner, creating future outlets through which he can advance making believable growth.
    I wouldn't mind that, but the writers have shown that they have no qualms resetting Ash for the sake of plot. I rather them allow him to accomplish something major, then have him travel to X region and have a few cameo appearances every now and them, so as not to screw with the continuity of his character.

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