Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced? - Page 5
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Thread: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

  1. #61

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamant View Post
    But yeah, this is a ridiculous debate. The series isn't aimed at old nerds who "want closure" for the main character
    Then why did all of Ash's travel companions and former rivals get a sense of closure? And this saga may be the end of TR and Giovanni. So they definitely are wrapping up stuff.

    ,
    Pikachu is the face of the franchise and isn't going anywhere,
    Nobody said Pikachu wouldn't remain in some fashion. It doesn't have to be Ash's Pikachu.

    and the idiocy of "hey, we'll retire the main character and replace him with a new kid who has the same personality and the same pokemon and the same goal and... uh... yeah" should speak for itself. Come on.
    1. Why would the new kid have Ash's personality? Why do people keep saying this?

    2. Same Pokemon? No, next kid would have Gen 6 pokemon obviously. And since we hardly ever see Ash's older pokes as it is, it'd make no difference.

    3. Same goal? So what, seeing someone new try Gyms is such a travesty? We watched two coordinators and their stories played out differently. Stop acting like they would be clones.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Then why did all of Ash's travel companions and former rivals get a sense of closure?
    Because they were products of their generations and were replaced to make room for new characters from the new games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Nobody said Pikachu wouldn't remain in some fashion. It doesn't have to be Ash's Pikachu.
    2. Same Pokemon? No, next kid would have Gen 6 pokemon obviously. And since we hardly ever see Ash's older pokes as it is, it'd make no difference.
    By "same Pokemon" I meant Pikachu, since that's the only Pokemon on Satoshi's team to remain static.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    1. Why would the new kid have Ash's personality? Why do people keep saying this?
    Because Satoshi is the generic "strive to become better" archetype you find in all these similar shows. It's a character type that works and appeals to the audience. They wouldn't run with a completely different character type unless they had a very good reason to do so, and since the show is still popular the way it is, they don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    3. Same goal? So what, seeing someone new try Gyms is such a travesty?
    No. But replacing an archetype shonen competitor character who beats gyms with his Pikachu and a selection of that generation's Pokemon with another archetype shonen competitor character who beats gyms with his Pikachu and a selection of that generation's Pokemon only serves to alienate the audience for no goddamn reason.
    So.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Then why did all of Ash's travel companions and former rivals get a sense of closure? And this saga may be the end of TR and Giovanni. So they definitely are wrapping up stuff.
    Because they're all minor characters compared to Ash and Pikachu and they're thrown away every gen for new characters which serve two purposes:
    1. Refresh the cast and the show in general (so you can clearly see that even when they feel like refreshing stuff, throwing Ash away isn't an option for them, they can do it in other ways)
    2. Advertise the current games

    Ash is redesigned every gen to match the outfit of the current games' hero, so he pretty much IS the representive of each new gen hero in the anime...

    Nobody said Pikachu wouldn't remain in some fashion. It doesn't have to be Ash's Pikachu.
    So... why bother? You already have THE Pikachu and its other half - Ash, which is also widely known around the world, as I said before...
    Ash and Pikachu are a pair, they're two halves of one... it's not complete to have one without the other
    Also, the thought of "a new main hero with a Pikachu" gives me flashbacks to Richie's Chronicles eps and made me fear the writers ever even think about doing this horrible idea... (good thing they aren't likely to do it)

    1. Why would the new kid have Ash's personality? Why do people keep saying this?
    Because a kids cartoon aimed at young kids, mainly boys, about creatures battling each other, is inevitable to use the "typical hero" kind of character that Ash is
    I seriously doubt we'd get anything drastically different
    Also, even if he had a different personality... so what? we get new members in the group with "new personality/goal" every gen... there's no need to replace Ash to do that
    Not to mention how with a generic plot like Poké's, even if they'll start over with a brand new cast, soon enough after the initial excitement (which I mean the first 3 or so eps) we'll see that it'll probably be VERY similar, if not identical, to what we'd get if Ash did stay... so, again, WHY BOTHER?

    2. Same Pokemon? No, next kid would have Gen 6 pokemon obviously. And since we hardly ever see Ash's older pokes as it is, it'd make no difference.
    You said it - it makes no difference and Ash will use new Poké just like your suggested new hero would do... so, again, why bother?!....

    3. Same goal? So what, seeing someone new try Gyms is such a travesty? We watched two coordinators and their stories played out differently. Stop acting like they would be clones.
    Fact is, the Coordinator girls weren't important enough for the writers to keep them permamently, while Ash was constantly the main star from the very first ep (April 1997) to this day (July 2011) - which means: more than 14 years, 5 generations, 13 Movies, 4 series... and he'll obviously continue at least a few more years so by the end of BW we could add 3-4 to the amount of years and movies he was the main star, to make it about 18 years/movies.... and I have no doubt he'll pass the 20 years too...

    Scott, if you don't enjoy the show for what it is anymore, then I give you my permission to stop watching it... ok? here, take my Piplup Seal of Approval failure try to be funny: (god, I should leave things like that to Gravy...)psa.jpg

  4. #64

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    What do older Japanese viewers think about Ash and Pikachu leaving? Like, has anyone seen them talk on Japanese message boards on the subject. I'm sure at least some want him gone, but if even a massive amount of older Japanese viewers either don't want him to stay or wouldn't mind if he stayed...
    Seasons =/= Regions

  5. #65
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Then why did all of Ash's travel companions and former rivals get a sense of closure? And this saga may be the end of TR and Giovanni. So they definitely are wrapping up stuff.
    Noone(except Tracey) got real closure in true sense of that word.May and Dawn still didnt became top coordinators leaving with open-ended story.
    Max got no closure at all being stuck at gym until he ages enough to get first pokemon and start his journey which will never happen since characters dont age in this show.

    Misty didnt got any closure either with her goal of becoming water pokemon master and ambitions being left unfinished taking care of gym out of necessity and obligation as it was showed with her older sisters being irresponsible about it..Writers as evidenced left things unclear going for her not being set up what are Misty future plans compared to others like Brock or Dawn for example who precised what they intend to do with their lives.
    Etc.

    So its not like Ash is the only character who hasnt got closure to his story so far.And what exactly would giving closure to his story provide?
    Pokemon anime was never about destination but journey with people just enjoying in his new adventures not being bothered too much when it will end.One day it will but with current popularity there is n0nneed for Ash to go yet

    Nobody said Pikachu wouldn't remain in some fashion. It doesn't have to be Ash's Pikachu.
    Which defeats purpose of Ash being replaced even more.Why bring in new protagonist with another Pikachu when we already have Ash who is doing this job more than good enough?

    1. Why would the new kid have Ash's personality? Why do people keep saying this?
    Because naive and stubborn kid who shows care for pokemon always doing "right thing"is typical shonen hero which you see in many anime being writers way to appeal to younger kids being easier for them to associate with such type of character.

    Whoever comes after Ash he will have more or less same persona like Ash does for aforementioned reasons above.

    To Adamant:True Ash could have won Sinnoh league technically speaking but that wasnt my point.By introducing Takuto writers left kind of message how Ash still isnt ready having to learn more,.I thought defeats against Bertha and Flint cleared that up.
    Beside even if he won league he wasnt ready for E4 or champion with his current knowledge making challenge against them pointless.

    With current development Ash story doesnt allow for proper closure.Trying to wrap it at this point would only bring rushed and terribly done work.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 12th July 2011 at 11:34 AM.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    People think ratings would sink? How does that make any sense? New kids watch the anime every year, they will watch whoever the next main guy is, similar to how there's a new female every gen.
    Japanese Ratings measure everyone children and adults. The show gets in the top 10 list in ratings every week alongside shows like Doraemon, Chibi Maruko Chan, One Piece, Toriko, and Pre-Cure. It's a hard list to get on, the show is one of Tv Tokyo's best, so if everything is doing great with the ratings, why replace him? Why? What's the point? He would have the same attitude, Pikachu, Collect Badges, Battle Evil Team, Fillers, and traveling companions. Why would they go to the effort of replacing him?
    We old fans are not supposed to still be watching after 15 years anyway. We do not count.
    I've been watching 6-7 years. So nah that point is invalid. If older fans weren't suppose to be watching for 15 years then why should the writers go to the trouble of replacing a character that they aren't watching?

  7. #67

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    Japanese Ratings measure everyone children and adults.
    Japanese ratings would not drop because Ash isn't there. Kids will watch Pokemon regardless who the main characters are.

    Is this some kind of joke? A 7 year old kid won't watch Pokemon because there's no Ash? When said 7 year old kid probably has only been watching pokemon for 1 year?

  8. #68

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Kids will watch Pokemon regardless who the main characters are.
    THEN WHY BOTHER?..............

    Also, I totally love how you ignore all logical answers me and Adamant gave you...

  9. #69

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    THEN WHY BOTHER?..............

    Also, I totally love how you ignore all logical answers me and Adamant gave you...
    Because it makes more sense to have a new generation feature the heroes of those gen.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Because it makes more sense to have a new generation feature the heroes of those gen.
    Every new series, Ash is redesigned to match the outfit of the new games' hero, so he pretty much IS the new game's hero in the anime... and new friends based on the new game's characters join him... and they all use the gen's new Poké, travel around the new gen's region, meet all of the new gen's characters, and so on........

  11. #71
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Japanese ratings would not drop because Ash isn't there. Kids will watch Pokemon regardless who the main characters are.

    Is this some kind of joke? A 7 year old kid won't watch Pokemon because there's no Ash? When said 7 year old kid probably has only been watching pokemon for 1 year?
    Your forgetting how due to reruns of older episodes with Ash on various TV stations,internet,older relatives who introduce to younger generations older sagas with Ash good portion of target audience(age range between 6 to 12)watched previous series following both his older and new adventures finding out about his past companions and achievements.

    Also your underestimating iconic status of Ash character,Today kids and majority of older fans associate pokemon with Ash and Pikachu being recognized and popular worldwide like none of other characters ever was.Taking him away could lead to massive complaining with many of today viewers quitting with show in response.
    Younger viewers already became attached to Ash just like older generations of fans were/are viewing this show as his journey which in reality it is considering how plot revolves around him much more than it was ever case with other protagonists this anime had.

    If writers wished to replace Ash 8 years ago they had chance which could polute promising results.But after 14 years its simply too late with risk out- weighting benefit.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    Every new series, Ash is redesigned to match the outfit of the new games' hero, so he pretty much IS the new game's hero in the anime... and new friends based on the new game's characters join him... and they all use the gen's new Poké, travel around the new gen's region, meet all of the new gen's characters, and so on........
    They've been inching more and more to severing all ties with the older show each passing gen. First they experimented with replacing Misty. Then they removed May, after all the build-up she got. Then they tried a co-star with Dawn but still removed her. Then they FINALLY axed Brock after so long. And now it seems TR is going out. We also know Iris/Cilan will leave too.

    As the show has progressed the writers realize the old show is a decade old. They're wiping the slate clean and eventually they'll want to do a proper reboot.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    To Adamant:True Ash could have won Sinnoh league technically speaking but that wasnt my point.By introducing Takuto writers left kind of message how Ash still isnt ready having to learn more,.I thought defeats against Bertha and Flint cleared that up.
    Beside even if he won league he wasnt ready for E4 or champion with his current knowledge making challenge against them pointless.
    His battles with the Elite Four members were to demonstrate that he wasn't anywhere near their level. Him winning against everyone in the league save super-trainer Takuto, and doing better against Takuto than anyone else, was to demonstrate that he is league champion material, but they didn't want him winning the league despite that, so they tossed in some abnormally strong participant so he'd lose despite his ability.
    So.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    They've been inching more and more to severing all ties with the older show each passing gen. First they experimented with replacing Misty. Then they removed May, after all the build-up she got. Then they tried a co-star with Dawn but still removed her. Then they FINALLY axed Brock after so long. And now it seems TR is going out. We also know Iris/Cilan will leave too.

    As the show has progressed the writers realize the old show is a decade old. They're wiping the slate clean and eventually they'll want to do a proper reboot.
    You're repeating the same ridiculous things that me and others already answered you
    These are all extremely minor characters compared to Ash and Pikachu
    I'll ask you again: if you so hate the current way the show works, why you even continue to watch it? I'm totally serious and would like to know the answer

  15. #75

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piplup View Post
    You're repeating the same ridiculous things that me and others already answered you
    These are all extremely minor characters compared to Ash and Pikachu
    I'll ask you again: if you so hate the current way the show works, why you even continue to watch it? I'm totally serious and would like to know the answer
    Ash himself can be wrapped up too.

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