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Thread: Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced?

  1. #556
    Registered User Blue1225's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    So why not do such thing with Ash who already proved to be popular and successful candidate?
    Instead of getting rid of Ash it would be much more accepting if writers fix on mistakes they are doing with character currently.Like restoring experience and maturity following further development of already established and mature character with Ash going on bigger things advancing his story forward winning league and doing steps forward.

    Compared to get go starting out from zero with another rookie flushing all potential and years of development Ash achieved down the toilet.Whoever comes in Ash place if writing and formula doesnt change he will end up stuck in same endless loop of being constantly reset and downplayed.Problem isnt within Ash character but in current formula of pokemon,and bringing someone new wont fix that problem.It would give us just another rerun of original series.

    If formula does change,there is no reason to replace Ash either considering he already has potential with many things being left undefined and unresolved about character to take him forward.
    No point in replacing Ash and closing down anime just to make new series with billion of new generations of pokemon being made.One day it will have to end,so why not have pokemon series end on a high note being treated as same show with same timeline,continuity and characters?



    Personality wise new guy cant be much different from Ash because having someone naive who is bound to do "right thing" is writers way to appeal to new kids making it easier for them to associate with Ash type of character(typical naive shounen hero).
    Add to that fact how he will do gyms,enter leagues,have Pikachu as its main partner and you pretty much end up with poorly written cheap knock of from original protagonist.

    Whats the point in following new guy starting out from scratch when he wont bring nothing new to show?With traveling companions at least we follow different careers being introduced(like it was case with May and contests or now with Cilan and his goal of connoisseur).

    New main star wont be doing anything else because gyms are the only viable major quest in games which wont be changed any time soon.With new guy we cant gain new mascot because getting rid of Pikachu would tarnish its association with pokemon being bad move for sales and reputation.With new guy given limits kids show has writers cant write him much differently than its case with Ash currently ending up developed in similar manner.

    There would be nothing to root for,there would be nothing new brought on table which we already didnt see with new protagonist not bringing any excitement and new concept.So why exactly we need new main star?

    To ruin positive image pokemon series had,to destroy continuity and get rid of potential to do something worthwhile and notable with Ash story?
    No thanks,i rather want to follow pokemon series i grew up and started to like with reference and connections to past being present until it ends instead of cutting it down in small pieces watching alternate aversions with lower quality.



    And than you have examples like Yugioh GX or Beyblade which werent accepted well with fans losing interest for new reincarnations of anime.
    As for remark about shows like Digimon,they cant be even compared to long running series like pokemon.They wrapped up series after certain story arc is being done starting out new show after relatively small time after 2 to 5 years at most.

    Replacing whole cast after few years is one thing,but trying to revamp completely show like pokemon who is going on with Ash and same cast for more than 13 years is entirely different situation.
    At this point people already view pokemon series as Ash and older characters show becoming too used to this concept.
    If replacing Ash doesnt involve any risk of causing any negative repercussions and negative feedback writers would already get rid of him long time ago.



    Few opinions from individuals doesnt reflect what is general consensus among fandom as i said.I can safely say how Ash is probably most popular and iconic character of anime.



    Have i ever said how most fans watch show for Ash?No,i dont recall i ever said such thing,but fact of the matter is that most fans are viewing Ash as driving force of pokemon series and its mascot associating anime with his character and Pikachu.

    Taking him out might cause unneeded and unnecessary backlash with older fans becoming aggravated,while new kids becoming confused and turned from show.By replacing Ash at this point since most people in world associate pokemon series with him,new protagonist wont be recognizable and iconic as current star is which will indirectly cause drop of new customers.

    Also if Ash leaves that also means how all continuity and previous traveling companions(like May,Misty,Dawn,Brock etc)will stop existing as well.With current format they actually have chance to be seen again having potential to offer more on on table being left unfinished.It would be more appreciating imo to keep them relevant to show and playing important role in Ash development with pokemon being treated as one entity having continuous story and timeline.

    Than again people who want Ash gone could care less about unexplored things in character story,continuity and his traveling companions being seen again.
    You still don't seem to realize that the main reason people are currently sick of Ash is because of how he's currently being portrayed. That's the entire reason this conversation is happening. He's basically starting from zero now! His maturity is gone. His potential has been flushed down the drain. I've said it before, the writers could've easily replaced Ash with Hilbert or someone else this gen and there wouldn't be any difference. What potential is there left in the character? The main thing he still has yet to accomplish is to win a league, besides that most people don't seem to care about anything else he does anymore. I don't even think people care about whether or not he's reunited with any of his released pokemon.

    So right here you've pretty much made it clear that you know exactly what the new character would be like, which of course you don't. Again, you're just assuming all of these things and you're assuming the writers wouldn't be able to make the character interesting to anyone because you can't imagine him being interesting to anyone. You're placing your own views on the fans as a whole. And I think the writers have made it clear with BW that they really don't care about continuity and that its only fans who do. Again, you assume that a new character would ruin the "positive image [P]okemon" when there's no proof to suggest this would happen. Ash himself has done more this gen to ruin that image that anything else. Risks are something that have to be taken sometimes. There are times when you just can't be 100% sure on anything, but you have to take the risk so you can avoid stagnation.

    What do you consider a few opinions? And ignoring that, I think you're still ignoring the fact that there are a significant number of fans who dislike Ash and want him replaced. Whether its 50%, 30% or 25% that's still a significant portion of the fandom that hates the main character and wants him gone. And that's not considering new fans, who as you and others have pointed out don't know anything of the history of the anime so really wouldn't care one way or the other seeing as they don't have the connection to Ash based on years of adventures.

    Read my words again. I said "[Y]ou're implying that most fans watch the show for Ash and nothing more". I made it clear that though you're not coming right out and saying it that's how its coming off when I read your words. And i'd like to see your proof that most fans see Ash as the driving force behind the show. As I said before, I don't think most kids have been around long enough to think of Ash as some necessary part of the series, so they wouldn't have a problem with him being replaced with a new character.

    I'm glad you brought up your last point so I can point out its absurdity. Why would every character cease to exist because Ash was no longer the main character? Why would Ash himself cease to exist? There's no reason you should think that those characters would stop existing. They simply wouldn't be main characters anymore and would all gain different roles. As Gym Leaders, Misty and Brock have more reason to appear than Ash (Assuming the new kid was from Kanto). Ash could still be mentioned as they traveled with him for so long and there's no reason he couldn't appear in a mentor type role to the new kid. He could be a member of the Elite 4, a Gym Leader, the Champion, etc. In short, saying that we shouldn't replace Ash because old characters could possibly be seen again is flawed logic, because they can always be seen again no matter who the main character is. These people aren't tied to Ash, they don't exist solely because of him.

    It seems like you're assuming a new character means everything that comes before is washed away, when that's not the case at all (Though the writers of course could make that happen). A new series could easily take place in the same world.

    "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best". -Karen

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  2. #557

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Agreed, and at this point Ash has enough accomplishments under his belt. You guys do realize that when BW ends, Ash will have beaten 44 Gym leaders, 7 Frontier Brains, 5 major tournaments and competed in several one-off things like Pokeringer, Contests, mini-tournaments, and the like?

    All they really have to do is Ash win a single league, then enter the Champion league using ALL his Pokemon for one last time, and that's it. After that maybe show a fast-forward in the future when Ash is an adult or something for the last 5 minutes of an episode and call it the end there.

  3. #558
    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Couldn't have said it any better than the two above posters. What I don't understand however, is why POKEMON FAN 132 thinks that a new main character's Pokemon HAS to be Pikachu? What the ... I don't even...

    Just because hes the mascot DOES NOT mean that he has to be another main character's Pokemon. Just look at Jimmy. Fans love variety anyways, and the Pikachu species could very well still make cameo appearances even if it did not belong to a main character.

    Like how they did Pikachu in the B/W games. Anywho, Ash needs to be replaced, I'm sorry. Nobody wants to see him start over from scratch anymore when we've already fleshed out his character years ago. They should have just used a brand new main character anyways, since the anime has been rebooted in a ways.

    If anything, a brand new main character would generate much interest in the show, and since its set in the exact same universe as Ash, he himself along with other old characters could of simply made cameo appearances.

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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    I think that the reason why this new main character would have a Pikachu is because the writers have had Pikachu appear in every episode and I doubt that they would want to get rid of promoting their franchise's mascot even if they did have a new main character.

    Personally, I still don't want Ash to be replaced. I can definitely understand why people would want him to be replaced, why they don't like him and those are all valid opinions. I don't mind how Ash has been depicted in BW too much. The only things that bother me is that other trainers have been overpowered to make him look like a weaker trainer, mainly with Trip and Iris, and he doesn't train his Pokemon as much as he really should, which is extremely jarring to see after how he handled his team in DP. Other than that, he still seems pretty fine to me and I woudn't mind seeing him continue being the main character. Though, I still think that the idea that majority of fans in the target audience watch the show for Ash sounds ridiculous and if the new series with a new main character did happen, Ash and his friends could still be seen and/or mentioned, although probably not that often. I never really cared if Ash won a league. I'm hoping that he'll do more training with his Unova Pokemon more so than winning the Unova League. I still don't think that Ash will be replaced since he's been around for so long and I don't think that the writers would suddenly go with using the new male trainer from the video games for the next series. I could have seen something like that working either in Johto or when AG started, but I think it's far too late for something like that to happen now. Even so, I do understand where people who want Ash to be replaced are coming from.

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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    :Cries: I know things look bad for him but I can't see Ash go yet. Not yet. It's still too soon for me. He's much too hott, sexy, and have been the reason for my pre-teen wet dreams back in the day. My back head dreams will get destroyed if I don't see him atleast become something more greater than what he is now. :Sniffs: Why does this have to happen? Just when you think an improvement of Ash comes along, someone in the office is thinking to set him back(on fire).

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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue1225 View Post
    You still don't seem to realize that the main reason people are currently sick of Ash is because of how he's currently being portrayed. That's the entire reason this conversation is happening. He's basically starting from zero now! His maturity is gone. His potential has been flushed down the drain. I've said it before, the writers could've easily replaced Ash with Hilbert or someone else this gen and there wouldn't be any difference. What potential is there left in the character? The main thing he still has yet to accomplish is to win a league, besides that most people don't seem to care about anything else he does anymore. I don't even think people care about whether or not he's reunited with any of his released pokemon.
    And what makes you think new protagonist wont suffer from same problem Ash is going through?Like i said problem isnt within Ash character but current formula and writers.

    New guy will still be reset at start of every new region losing maturity and experience(just like Ash does),he will still start out fresh leaving older pokemon behind,his skills will still get downplayed losing to trainers of questionable skill etc.

    Thats writers way of allowing new kids to have easier time tuning within show and follow development of main star and as long they dont change their approach nothing will change by bringing in new protagonist.
    So once again where is purpose behind this?

    If people are sick of Ash being constantly downplayed wouldnt it be more welcomed that his character gets fixed and taken forward instead of starting out everything from scratch with new greenhorn which will be even bigger noob and inexperienced trainer than Ash currently is?

    So why not rather restore Ash maturity and experience stopping with reset at start of every new region taking character and story forward?We could see Ash going on E4,entering other quests(like BF was)advancing his goal forward.We could see more of Ash past being revealed and find out about his backstory and perhaps father.We could reuse previous characters becoming relevant to anime again contributing to Ash growth while advancing story forward.

    Its no secret that many people want Misty,Brock,May etc back.
    We could see Ash becoming more experienced,wise and better as battler than he was in DP.

    Whoever comes in considering how same writers would write for show,new guy wont be handled any better.If Ash lasted for only 4 to 5 years than he could be in theory replaced but after being main star for 15 years it would be pointless to replace him with new protagonist with his character and Pikachu becoming too integrated within show becoming too iconic,popular and recognizable.

    But let say writers replace Ash,new guy comes in and starts doing gyms,qualifies for league,fails at it and get replaced with another one after 4 years".What than?There wouldnt be needed much time to pass for people to get sick of it with formula starting to stagnate.

    Fans are already sick of constant cycling of female protagonists and i can only imagine how much displeasure would cause starting to do same thing by replacing someone who has been part of this show for so long.

    So right here you've pretty much made it clear that you know exactly what the new character would be like, which of course you don't. Again, you're just assuming all of these things and you're assuming the writers wouldn't be able to make the character interesting to anyone because you can't imagine him being interesting to anyone. You're placing your own views on the fans as a whole.
    How different new character can exactly be?Going by anime restrictions writers dont have much room to do something significantly different with his successor.

    Considering how gyms are main and only viable quest in games that doesnt leave writers much choice but to have new protagonist doing gyms as well.Pikachu more than likely would be his main partner considering he is mascot of entire franchise being main source of money.

    Current formula doesnt allow character to age,nor develop in different way with more mature storyline being involved considering how pokemon is primarily kids show.In personality department he wont be different much than Ash currently is because naive and impulsive shounen male heroes are proven concept which is attracting new kids being easier for them to relate with such type of character.

    In majority of other anime main protagonists are portrayed in light of hotheaded,impulsive and reckless characters.

    Whats the point in getting rid of Ash to replace him with poorly don clone which due to anime limitations cant be drastically different?There is a reason why Ritchie(guy from Kanto who appeared in Johto and few specials) was never accepted well among fandom being basically Ash expy.

    Well new guy wont be much different either with writers not being that creative.

    And I think the writers have made it clear with BW that they really don't care about continuity and that its only fans who do. Again, you assume that a new character would ruin the "positive image [P]okemon" when there's no proof to suggest this would happen. Ash himself has done more this gen to ruin that image that anything else. Risks are something that have to be taken sometimes. There are times when you just can't be 100% sure on anything, but you have to take the risk so you can avoid stagnation.
    Writers have priorities and directives they need to follow from Game Freak and Nintendo.Reason why BW doesnt have much references to past regions and pokemon is because of BW games which are carrying out vibe of "fresh start".For same reason Unova is portrayed as foreign and distant region,older pokemon arent showed,contests are gone,Brock got replaced,throwbacks to past are kept to minimum etc,etc.

    Writers are with BW series mirroring changes which happened in games decanting new for,ula and approach on screen.

    As for second remark of "risk sometimes being needed",thats not economically good mopge to make if current approach is already bringing results. Producers rather want to stick with proven formula with Ash already being suitable and popular candidate to promote new games,attract new viewers toward this show drawing them in buying new products instead of writing him out and risking to lose their main source of money.
    If there was no risk involved im sure they would replace Ash already by now,but they probably weight out positive and negative sides deciding to rather stick with safer route instead.

    Ash is their cash cow which brings money and viewers giving identity to pokemon series and they dont have in reality any real reason to take the risk.If Ash leaves this could bring consequence of people losing interest for new series,new kids becoming confused after being used to Ash as main star along with drop of viewers being ensured to follow.

    This wouldnt be first time,when cast changes caused drop in ratings.Yugioh GX and Beyblade suffered because of revamp with ratings being shadow of their former selves.In DBZ when Goku was attempted to be replaced and retired backlash from fanbase was huge.Even in pokemon when original traveling companions left for first time this didnt went without repercussions and fan backlash.

    If your attempting to replace long stay character like Ash who is most popular and recognized character worldwide,than you also need to prepare for possible negative feedback.
    Its not so much about Ash himself,but more in people becoming too used to current formula veiwing anime series as one big continuity which revolves around main protagonist journey.

    What do you consider a few opinions? And ignoring that, I think you're still ignoring the fact that there are a significant number of fans who dislike Ash and want him replaced. Whether its 50%, 30% or 25% that's still a significant portion of the fandom that hates the main character and wants him gone. And that's not considering new fans, who as you and others have pointed out don't know anything of the history of the anime so really wouldn't care one way or the other seeing as they don't have the connection to Ash based on years of adventures.
    Writers dont pay attention to older fans.The only audience which matters to them is target demographic(small kids)and considering how they have no problems with Ash who is already worldwide popular and accepted among fans,already having strong marketing value and iconic status advertising anime and bringing in new fans toward it there doesnt exist any reason from financial and story standpoint to get rid of Ash and risk potential drop of ratings and people interest for new series.

    They go with logic of"if something isnt broken,there is no need to fix it"and producers and writing staff wont cater to small group of older fans which is growing out of show wanting that anime gets written by "their own rules".

    Likewise percentage of fans outside of target audience who want Ash gone is rather small being nothing more than vocal minority.Its enough to go on other sites,youtube,facebook etc to actually realize how much popular his character still is among veterans and older generations.

    Most people want that Ash gets back on right track with his story going somewhere following already established character being developed more,rather than ending up replaced for another greenhorn.

    Read my words again. I said "[Y]ou're implying that most fans watch the show for Ash and nothing more". I made it clear that though you're not coming right out and saying it that's how its coming off when I read your words. And i'd like to see your proof that most fans see Ash as the driving force behind the show. As I said before, I don't think most kids have been around long enough to think of Ash as some necessary part of the series, so they wouldn't have a problem with him being replaced with a new character.
    Let see,Ash is main star of pokemon series.Whole story revolves around him and his journey of becoming pokemon master with people associating pokemon anime with him being most iconoc and recognized character worldwide.

    Whoever you meet and ask about pokemon in street even if they never watched it they will immediately be able to recognize it because of Ash and Pikachu with first group being to this day most remembered and most iconic trio among people.

    Problem with Ash replacement is that today kids associate pokemon series with his character and journey and might not like driving force getting replaced.This move might involve risk of ending up confused and turn them from show.

    I'm glad you brought up your last point so I can point out its absurdity. Why would every character cease to exist because Ash was no longer the main character? Why would Ash himself cease to exist? There's no reason you should think that those characters would stop existing. They simply wouldn't be main characters anymore and would all gain different roles. As Gym Leaders, Misty and Brock have more reason to appear than Ash (Assuming the new kid was from Kanto). Ash could still be mentioned as they traveled with him for so long and there's no reason he couldn't appear in a mentor type role to the new kid. He could be a member of the Elite 4, a Gym Leader, the Champion, etc. In short, saying that we shouldn't replace Ash because old characters could possibly be seen again is flawed logic, because they can always be seen again no matter who the main character is. These people aren't tied to Ash, they don't exist solely because of him.
    When anime gets revamped and rebooted ties to previous characters,regions and everything which happened before are being cut and erased.Thats the whole point of reboot,to provide completely new start not having any connections with past series.

    It happened with Yugioh with Yugi being only ex main character which appeared in GX,it happened with Digimon with all previous characters in Digimon Tamers and onwards stopping to exist.It happened with Beyblade,etc etc.
    Pokemon wont be exception.

    Also suggesting that new kid starts out in Kanto would make him even more similar to Ash with new anime ending up portrayed as nothing more than cheap rehash of original series.Not to mention from marketing point there would be no reason to redo Kanto considering how purpose behind anime is to promote new games.

    Meaning how new protagonist and story would take place in new region with new pokemon following game plot.
    People who want Ash gone wants completely fresh start,not a Kanto 2.0.

    It seems like you're assuming a new character means everything that comes before is washed away, when that's not the case at all (Though the writers of course could make that happen). A new series could easily take place in the same world.
    Explained above.If your going to completely overhaul series keeping previous characters relevant would only confuse viewers and defeat purpose of fresh start.

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    Couldn't have said it any better than the two above posters. What I don't understand however, is why POKEMON FAN 132 thinks that a new main character's Pokemon HAS to be Pikachu? What the ... I don't even...
    Because Yellow rodent is main mascot of pokemon franchize bringing in cash.He is icon with his face appearing on all products being most recognized and known pokemon worldwide with whole reason behind Ash getting it in first place being to better advertize anime with people associating pokemon with Pikachu.

    Writers wont get rid of series main mascot which is promoting entire franchise and series having huge marketing value.Considering how Pikachu is already associated with Ash character,its pointless to replace him with another guy being bad marketing move.

    Like how they did Pikachu in the B/W games. Anywho, Ash needs to be replaced, I'm sorry. Nobody wants to see him start over from scratch anymore when we've already fleshed out his character years ago. They should have just used a brand new main character anyways, since the anime has been rebooted in a ways.
    Except its pointless to replace Ash when writers can do much more with his character taking him forward by revealing what steps other than winning league he might need to take in order to become pokemon master.
    If character already has material to work with and appeal being accepted among fans whats the point in getting rid of everything?

    People should be careful in what they wish for,because new guy might end up worse than Ash is with anime going downstars.When that happens,its too late to go back.

    p.s.There hasnt been provided yet any convincing or valid reason why should Ash be replaced.

    Lets take a look at arguments:
    What he is "stale"?
    Depends for who,because i still find his character interesting being interested that he gets taken in new directions developing more.Im not the only one either with plenty of people feeling same way.

    "Ash run his course not having any potential left"
    Completely wrong because writers in reality barely dived into character only scratching surface,For start there is a lot space left to do more with his goal of pokemon master with Ash becoming more experienced doing bigger steps forward.Winning one league is just a step in his career.
    In personality department he tends to be reckless,impulsive and naive rushing into things which pulls with itself consequence of losing several important matches because of it.Meaning how he has flaws on which writers could focus giving him some notable development.

    "Ash gets reset in every new region."
    Meaning how problem isnt within character but writers.AS long writers dont change formula and writing style,whoever comes after Ash will end up in same boat not being treated any better.

    Making this argument invalid.

    "Ash is already 15 years part of show,he is there too long".

    Frankly this argument is hurting more than helping anti side to prove their point.Sole fact that Ash has been kept for so long indicates how he prove to be successful and well liked character bringing in cash,attracting new kids toward anime and helping games to be promoted holding big marketing and iconic value.

    Considering he already do job just fine,there is no need from financial and story standpoint to boot him out.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 8th November 2011 at 11:40 AM.

  7. #562
    Registered User Blue1225's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    And what makes you think new protagonist wont suffer from same problem Ash is going through?Like i said problem isnt within Ash character but current formula and writers.

    New guy will still be reset at start of every new region losing maturity and experience(just like Ash does),he will still start out fresh leaving older pokemon behind,his skills will still get downplayed losing to trainers of questionable skill etc.

    Thats writers way of allowing new kids to have easier time tuning within show and follow development of main star and as long they dont change their approach nothing will change by bringing in new protagonist.
    So once again where is purpose behind this?

    If people are sick of Ash being constantly downplayed wouldnt it be more welcomed that his character gets fixed and taken forward instead of starting out everything from scratch with new greenhorn which will be even bigger noob and inexperienced trainer than Ash currently is?

    So why not rather restore Ash maturity and experience stopping with reset at start of every new region taking character and story forward?We could see Ash going on E4,entering other quests(like BF was)advancing his goal forward.We could see more of Ash past being revealed and find out about his backstory and perhaps father.We could reuse previous characters becoming relevant to anime again contributing to Ash growth while advancing story forward.

    Its no secret that many people want Misty,Brock,May etc back.
    We could see Ash becoming more experienced,wise and better as battler than he was in DP.

    Whoever comes in considering how same writers would write for show,new guy wont be handled any better.If Ash lasted for only 4 to 5 years than he could be in theory replaced but after being main star for 15 years it would be pointless to replace him with new protagonist with his character and Pikachu becoming too integrated within show becoming too iconic,popular and recognizable.

    But let say writers replace Ash,new guy comes in and starts doing gyms,qualifies for league,fails at it and get replaced with another one after 4 years".What than?There wouldnt be needed much time to pass for people to get sick of it with formula starting to stagnate.

    Fans are already sick of constant cycling of female protagonists and i can only imagine how much displeasure would cause starting to do same thing by replacing someone who has been part of this show for so long.



    How different new character can exactly be?Going by anime restrictions writers dont have much room to do something significantly different with his successor.

    Considering how gyms are main and only viable quest in games that doesnt leave writers much choice but to have new protagonist doing gyms as well.Pikachu more than likely would be his main partner considering he is mascot of entire franchise being main source of money.

    Current formula doesnt allow character to age,nor develop in different way with more mature storyline being involved considering how pokemon is primarily kids show.In personality department he wont be different much than Ash currently is because naive and impulsive shounen male heroes are proven concept which is attracting new kids being easier for them to relate with such type of character.

    In majority of other anime main protagonists are portrayed in light of hotheaded,impulsive and reckless characters.

    Whats the point in getting rid of Ash to replace him with poorly don clone which due to anime limitations cant be drastically different?There is a reason why Ritchie(guy from Kanto who appeared in Johto and few specials) was never accepted well among fandom being basically Ash expy.

    Well new guy wont be much different either with writers not being that creative.



    Writers have priorities and directives they need to follow from Game Freak and Nintendo.Reason why BW doesnt have much references to past regions and pokemon is because of BW games which are carrying out vibe of "fresh start".For same reason Unova is portrayed as foreign and distant region,older pokemon arent showed,contests are gone,Brock got replaced,throwbacks to past are kept to minimum etc,etc.

    Writers are with BW series mirroring changes which happened in games decanting new for,ula and approach on screen.

    As for second remark of "risk sometimes being needed",thats not economically good mopge to make if current approach is already bringing results. Producers rather want to stick with proven formula with Ash already being suitable and popular candidate to promote new games,attract new viewers toward this show drawing them in buying new products instead of writing him out and risking to lose their main source of money.
    If there was no risk involved im sure they would replace Ash already by now,but they probably weight out positive and negative sides deciding to rather stick with safer route instead.

    Ash is their cash cow which brings money and viewers giving identity to pokemon series and they dont have in reality any real reason to take the risk.If Ash leaves this could bring consequence of people losing interest for new series,new kids becoming confused after being used to Ash as main star along with drop of viewers being ensured to follow.

    This wouldnt be first time,when cast changes caused drop in ratings.Yugioh GX and Beyblade suffered because of revamp with ratings being shadow of their former selves.In DBZ when Goku was attempted to be replaced and retired backlash from fanbase was huge.Even in pokemon when original traveling companions left for first time this didnt went without repercussions and fan backlash.

    If your attempting to replace long stay character like Ash who is most popular and recognized character worldwide,than you also need to prepare for possible negative feedback.
    Its not so much about Ash himself,but more in people becoming too used to current formula veiwing anime series as one big continuity which revolves around main protagonist journey.



    Writers dont pay attention to older fans.The only audience which matters to them is target demographic(small kids)and considering how they have no problems with Ash who is already worldwide popular and accepted among fans,already having strong marketing value and iconic status advertising anime and bringing in new fans toward it there doesnt exist any reason from financial and story standpoint to get rid of Ash and risk potential drop of ratings and people interest for new series.

    They go with logic of"if something isnt broken,there is no need to fix it"and producers and writing staff wont cater to small group of older fans which is growing out of show wanting that anime gets written by "their own rules".

    Likewise percentage of fans outside of target audience who want Ash gone is rather small being nothing more than vocal minority.Its enough to go on other sites,youtube,facebook etc to actually realize how much popular his character still is among veterans and older generations.

    Most people want that Ash gets back on right track with his story going somewhere following already established character being developed more,rather than ending up replaced for another greenhorn.



    Let see,Ash is main star of pokemon series.Whole story revolves around him and his journey of becoming pokemon master with people associating pokemon anime with him being most iconoc and recognized character worldwide.

    Whoever you meet and ask about pokemon in street even if they never watched it they will immediately be able to recognize it because of Ash and Pikachu with first group being to this day most remembered and most iconic trio among people.

    Problem with Ash replacement is that today kids associate pokemon series with his character and journey and might not like driving force getting replaced.This move might involve risk of ending up confused and turn them from show.



    When anime gets revamped and rebooted ties to previous characters,regions and everything which happened before are being cut and erased.Thats the whole point of reboot,to provide completely new start not having any connections with past series.

    It happened with Yugioh with Yugi being only ex main character which appeared in GX,it happened with Digimon with all previous characters in Digimon Tamers and onwards stopping to exist.It happened with Beyblade,etc etc.
    Pokemon wont be exception.

    Also suggesting that new kid starts out in Kanto would make him even more similar to Ash with new anime ending up portrayed as nothing more than cheap rehash of original series.Not to mention from marketing point there would be no reason to redo Kanto considering how purpose behind anime is to promote new games.

    Meaning how new protagonist and story would take place in new region with new pokemon following game plot.
    People who want Ash gone wants completely fresh start,not a Kanto 2.0.



    Explained above.If your going to completely overhaul series keeping previous characters relevant would only confuse viewers and defeat purpose of fresh start.



    Because Yellow rodent is main mascot of pokemon franchize bringing in cash.He is icon with his face appearing on all products being most recognized and known pokemon worldwide with whole reason behind Ash getting it in first place being to better advertize anime with people associating pokemon with Pikachu.

    Writers wont get rid of series main mascot which is promoting entire franchise and series having huge marketing value.Considering how Pikachu is already associated with Ash character,its pointless to replace him with another guy being bad marketing move.



    Except its pointless to replace Ash when writers can do much more with his character taking him forward by revealing what steps other than winning league he might need to take in order to become pokemon master.
    If character already has material to work with and appeal being accepted among fans whats the point in getting rid of everything?

    People should be careful in what they wish for,because new guy might end up worse than Ash is with anime going downstars.When that happens,its too late to go back.

    p.s.There hasnt been provided yet any convincing or valid reason why should Ash be replaced.

    Lets take a look at arguments:
    What he is "stale"?
    Depends for who,because i still find his character interesting being interested that he gets taken in new directions developing more.Im not the only one either with plenty of people feeling same way.

    "Ash run his course not having any potential left"
    Completely wrong because writers in reality barely dived into character only scratching surface,For start there is a lot space left to do more with his goal of pokemon master with Ash becoming more experienced doing bigger steps forward.Winning one league is just a step in his career.
    In personality department he tends to be reckless,impulsive and naive rushing into things which pulls with itself consequence of losing several important matches because of it.Meaning how he has flaws on which writers could focus giving him some notable development.

    "Ash gets reset in every new region."
    Meaning how problem isnt within character but writers.AS long writers dont change formula and writing style,whoever comes after Ash will end up in same boat not being treated any better.

    Making this argument invalid.

    "Ash is already 15 years part of show,he is there too long".

    Frankly this argument is hurting more than helping anti side to prove their point.Sole fact that Ash has been kept for so long indicates how he prove to be successful and well liked character bringing in cash,attracting new kids toward anime and helping games to be promoted holding big marketing and iconic value.

    Considering he already do job just fine,there is no need from financial and story standpoint to boot him out.
    Uhhh, no. Half the problem is with Ash himself and half is the way he's being written. There have been fans who were sick of Ash for a long time now. For some it started in Hoenn, for some in Sinnoh and some people just always wanted the protagonist to switch every region. Once again, you're only looking at one possible way for the new character to be portrayed and then you're creating an entire future scenario for him. Who says he'd be around for more than one region? If he was, why would he be rebooted every region? Ash himself has only just been rebooted in his 5th region! So theoretically, the new main character could be around for 5 regions and have his goals and ambitions all wrapped up, because that honestly is more than enough time. (Which is one of the problems with Ash. He's basically done everything people wanted him to do except win a League.)

    You're right. Fans are sick of new female protagonists just like they're sick of Ash.

    Honestly, I don't see the writers just magically aging Ash's character back to the way he was in Sinnoh, because the sad fact is that would be terrible writing. There's no logical way to explain the way he's been acting in Unova and the whole still 10 years old thing. These were unnecessary aspects that the writers forced onto the show and its suffered because of it. The greatest tragedy now is that there's really no way to fix it, no matter how good their writing is it'll still look bad on them.

    You're still assuming the new character would be to Ash what Trip is to Paul and Cheren. (An Expy) A stand in character who represented the exact same thing that Ash did, had the exact same goals, resembled him, etc. There's no reason to believe that'd be true. As i've said previously the new character could stand completely on his own with his own journey. You simply don't seem to be capable of imagining him being any other way. I ask you to look at the Gundam series which has had over a dozen different main characters for each of its variations. Did they all share some similarities? Yes, that's to be expected (And its generally agreed the new character would have a Pikachu. Similarity number one.) but they still had their own unique personalities and quirks, their own storylines and their own abilities. The same holds true for Yugi, Jaden and Yusei (The 3 protagonists from the Yu-Gi-Oh series) If the writings good theirs no reason for the characters to be clones of each other.

    Also, up until this season Ash had CLEARLY aged and developed as a character. That's 4 regions worth of development the writers put into him and they could've wrapped his story up easily. The same can hold true for the new character and if they plan it out right they could wrap him up in 2 regions.

    You admit your belief that the show doesn't currently allow for character's to age (that's a reason you don't think a new character should be introduced) yet you also say the writers should age Ash back to the way he was. 1)You admit that up until now he'd clearly aged and 2)if they should do it for Ash they CAN do it for a new character. The no-aging rule is something that you yourself have acknowledged can be used and discarded at the will of the writers.

    Its an economically good way to look at things when the current agenda is alienating fans and its also simply a fact that sometimes you have to consider it. I'm not saying it should be your first option, but it should always be an option on the table. Heck, that's the option used to start any business up because that's the first big risk you take.

    I'm of the belief that the writers discussed getting rid of Ash and were split on the idea, so they reached a compromise and settled on semi-rebooting him. I can't comment on Beyblade (As I haven't watched the new series after G Revolution) but GX and 5DS both managed to hold their own. The same can be said for the various series of Digimon after Adventure. All of them featured new characters, but they all did well. All have their fans. All have their haters. That's simply something that can't be avoided no matter what you do. And its the same case for Misty and Brock leaving. Tracy, May and Dawn all have their haters, but they have their fans as well. In fact a good argument can be made for which female companion is the most popular. Also, don't even try to tell me people weren't sick of Brock and didn't want him gone. Negative feedback is something that the show receives now. Every show gets it. It's unavoidable.

    Hmm, you say that writers only care about the old fans, but you don't bother to think of both sides of that argument. The bottom line is that younger kids may have no problem with Ash but they also have no connection to him. There's no reason for them to want him gone, but there's also no reason for them to want him to stay. Either way it doesn't matter, so whatever argument yo make concerning their wants is a bit of a moot point. Also, you're still assuming that most fans want Ash to stay and that they still love him, when you have no proof to back this up. You refer to his haters as a small minority who don't matter because you've seen proof on youtube or other sites that he's still loved. Look harder on those sites dude, I guarantee you you'll see just as many people who hate him.

    You're contradicting yourself at this point. You've admitted that most kids don't know or care of Ash's past, so they wouldn't recognize him as the face of Pokemon and wouldn't see him as the driving force behind the show. That would be Pikachu. Also, I never said he wasn't the main character. I've said that he's no longer the reason MOST PEOPLE or even younger kids watch the show. I don't even think he's the reason people start watching the show anymore. Just as Tai wasn't the reason most fans watched Digimon and Tyson wasn't the reason most fans watched Beyblade. Also, i'd bet a large sum of money that there are various other characters random people would recognize from the show besides Ash and Pikachu. You've still shown no proof that he's the driving force, i've still seen no proof on any website that he's the driving force, so as of now i'm going to conclude that no such proof exists.

    You're right about the point of a reboot, but who's saying the show should be rebooted? A new character doesn't mean a reboot has to happen. The story could still continue and ctually, it DIDN'T and has NEVER happened in Yu-Gi-Oh. There were various characters referenced in GX besides Yugi and just because they didn't make an appearance doesn't mean they didn't exist, being mentioned is enough. It proved the story was simply set years later in a different location, with different characters. I'm not suggesting the new kid start anywhere, I simply made an assumption and created a scenario on what could happen IF he did.

    I'm sorry but your point about overhauling a series makes no sense. Again, Gundam, Digimon Adventure 2, Yu-Gi-Oh: three series that overhauled but didn't do it completely in that all the old characters still exist. There's a difference between a minor and a complete overhaul and in fact overhaul isn't even the right term to use for what people are asking for. What people want isn't a reboot or an overhaul of the franchise, its a sequel series.

    I want to say that I don't THINK the new character needs a Pikachu, but I do see the writers giving him one. Because he's bound to be compared to Ash and as I said, some people are bound to hate him. Giving him a Pikachu gives him a direct link to Ash and can lessen the flow of hate he'll receive. Just note, giving him a Pikachu doesn't mean it has to be his starter pokemon or have the same relationship with him as Ash's Pikachu.

    You have yet to give one single reason for why Ash should be kept on. If anything, i'm saying that there are reasons for both options. He could be kept on or he could be let go. Both options have merit. I'd also like to say that you're making Ash out to be more interesting than he currently is. What does he have left to do accept win a regional tournament? Become a Pokemon Master? There are still no set rules for making that happen. Defeat the Elite 4 or Champion? That could easily happen in an arc designed for them before he's let go. And as i've said before I don't think we will or need to see him become a Pokemon Master, because that's not the main point of the series. This is a story about the journey, not the end goal. The journey itself is whats important here, not necessarily achieving the dream.

    "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best". -Karen

    "For every pokemon there is a purpose and a time when it can shine under the sun." -Blue1225

  8. #563

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Um, yeah, I think Ash should be replaced. Well, maybe. It depends on who'd replace him. I'd be overjoyed if Hilbert replaced him.

  9. #564
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    I don't think that's such a good idea. Those who spam Charizard, Brock, Misty and whatever Pokemon they love, would go crazy. I'm not saying I'm one of those people, but I think I need more of a more better send off for Ash than for him to lose a league when he's one person away from winning. Sorry folks.

  10. #565

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Tough question. For me, it depends. I want him to be replaced because he's such a stupid trainer. I mean, for God's sake, he's lost against Trip, like, 2 times(actually, I'm not really sure)!!! Trip's a newbie trainer! Ash has been to 3 previous regions before! He should be ten times better than Trip! And now he's really annoying. All his thoughts are "I have to go get the gym badge right now!!!"... And that wouldn't be so bad if he actually got to the gym in a reasonable amount of time. Should it really take about 30 episodes to get somewhere?! Well, if it doesn't take that long, it feels that long.

    I also want him to stay, though, because I'd like to see him gain a little more potential... Not that it would really matter. I also want them to say who the heck is dad is!!! They have to tell us!!! Is it Giovanni!? Professor Oak?! We need this stuff before(?) he gets replaced!

    you can smile again

  11. #566
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue1225 View Post
    Uhhh, no. Half the problem is with Ash himself and half is the way he's being written. There have been fans who were sick of Ash for a long time now. For some it started in Hoenn, for some in Sinnoh and some people just always wanted the protagonist to switch every region. Once again, you're only looking at one possible way for the new character to be portrayed and then you're creating an entire future scenario for him. Who says he'd be around for more than one region? If he was, why would he be rebooted every region? Ash himself has only just been rebooted in his 5th region! So theoretically, the new main character could be around for 5 regions and have his goals and ambitions all wrapped up, because that honestly is more than enough time. (Which is one of the problems with Ash. He's basically done everything people wanted him to do except win a League.)
    Yes some fans were sick from Ash character(some already in Kanto) but that isnt representing general consensus among fandom.Every character will have its share of fans and haters not being possible to please everyone,your point?

    Pokemon anime is intended to be one anime with continuity following adventures of same characters.Just like Naruto,One Piece or DBZ did.

    Writers had their chance to change anime several years ago treating it like Digimon or Yugioh wrapping up series after certain story arc is being done starting out new show after relatively small time after 2 to 5 years at most.However that ship sailed away long time ago with Ash becoming too integrated within anime being its driving force for almost 15 years and counting.

    Replacing whole cast after few years is one thing,but trying to revamp completely show like pokemon who is going on with Ash for more than 13 years is something completely different.
    At this point people already view pokemon series as Ash and older characters show becoming too used to this concept scoring huge popularity.
    Trying to take that away might result in big repercussions and big portion of viewers being lost with interest for new show fading away.

    Do we really need gazillion of new anime being made following adventures of new protagonists?If Ash leaves i would rather want that anime ends once for all as well.Whats the point in creating dozen of new series following new guys doing same all gym quest Ash is currently doing,with formula going through rinse and repeat?

    Quite frankly i would rather have that Ash sticks around with pokemon series ending when time comes with character who started everything and his traveling companions being treated as one big continuity which introduced us to world of s pokemon giving us insight in their adventures.
    I want to remember pokemon as something which played part in my childhood having good memories of it instead of everything being dropped by starting out new series with cheap attempt of replicating original show and Ash character ruining picture pokemon anime had and everything it stood for.

    Not to mention if they closed down Ash story right now that would result with crappy and poorly written closure with Ash character not being developed enough to allow to tie up loose ends in his story properly.
    To make his growth as trainer believable making notable step forward in his career of pokemon trainer which would serve as indication of his character coming very close toward ultimate goal that isnt possible to achieve with current development right now.

    You're right. Fans are sick of new female protagonists just like they're sick of Ash.
    Right here you contradicted yourself.If fans are getting sick of females being constantly replaced,than they would very likely get sick of new male protagonist(Ash replacement)as well.What is even worse,is that Ash successor might end up even worse and more boring with people becoming fed up with it.

    Do we really need that,just because few fans cant enjoy in Ash anymore?

    Sometimes its possible to regain interest in character,and many fans are already liking Ash.

    Honestly, I don't see the writers just magically aging Ash's character back to the way he was in Sinnoh, because the sad fact is that would be terrible writing. There's no logical way to explain the way he's been acting in Unova and the whole still 10 years old thing. These were unnecessary aspects that the writers forced onto the show and its suffered because of it. The greatest tragedy now is that there's really no way to fix it, no matter how good their writing is it'll still look bad on them.
    That doesnt make any sense.In past writers already screwed some things up with Ash character treating his pokemon and rivals poorly,revamping Pikachu strength and treating his story at times poorly but they also managed to fix mistakes getting character back on right track.

    You're still assuming the new character would be to Ash what Trip is to Paul and Cheren. (An Expy) A stand in character who represented the exact same thing that Ash did, had the exact same goals, resembled him, etc. There's no reason to believe that'd be true. As i've said previously the new character could stand completely on his own with his own journey. You simply don't seem to be capable of imagining him being any other way. I ask you to look at the Gundam series which has had over a dozen different main characters for each of its variations. Did they all share some similarities? Yes, that's to be expected (And its generally agreed the new character would have a Pikachu. Similarity number one.) but they still had their own unique personalities and quirks, their own storylines and their own abilities. The same holds true for Yugi, Jaden and Yusei (The 3 protagonists from the Yu-Gi-Oh series) If the writings good theirs no reason for the characters to be clones of each other.
    On other hand all i see being given up on Ash as character not understanding how he has potential and room to bring more on table.Who is to say Ash cant get be back on right track restoring experience and knowledge?

    Main issue with new protagonist is because he wouldnt offer anything new on table.Examples from Yugioh arent very valid nor bringing up good point because pokemon is show which is primarily geared toward small kids being just another tool to promote new games.Formula of anime in current format have several limitations to allow new guy to b different and unique from Ash.

    New character cant have very different personality because typical shouenn hero is writers way to appeal toward new kids.For same reason Tyson from Beyblade,Dan from Bakugan etc are having similar špersonalitis like Ash dos being typically naive,stubborn and reckless.

    He will still do gyms because thats in reality only real option and sidequest available in games to give him to do.Writers wont get rid of Pikachu which is series main mascot meaning right there another similarity with Ash.

    Further more if he stays going by current formula he will get reset and dumb down at start of every new region like Ash does.

    So im asking again whats the point in introducing new character and replacing Ash?He will be more or less just"copy-paste"of current protagonist not bringing bigger entertainment value,higher ratings and better story-path through which we will follow him.

    On other hand new character wont be nearly as much recognized and iconic to anime like Ash after 15 years has been,meaning how people will have harder time in associating pokemon with his character due to not bringing same identity to pokemon show like Ash currently does.

    People who want Ash gone needs to look at bigger picture in here taking i account all potential consequences his departure might cause.
    There is one saying"everyone deserves second chance".Well i guess thats not the case with pokemon and its characters,is it?

    Also, up until this season Ash had CLEARLY aged and developed as a character. That's 4 regions worth of development the writers put into him and they could've wrapped his story up easily. The same can hold true for the new character and if they plan it out right they could wrap him up in 2 regions.
    Ash has never aged and talking about "reset",people forget this happened already at start of AG and DP as well.Just to smaller extent.Last time i checked Ash wasnt experienced to same extent like he was in Battle Frontier when defeating Brandon and Regice doing some beginner mistakes along with Pikachu being toned down in power.Just compare his strength at start of Sinnoh and end of BF.That Ash didnt had same amount of experience taking some time in DP to get back on 100%.

    Also for character to be reset he needs to be revamped doing things from scratch.Thats not the case with Ash as evidenced in BW writers are showing signs of his previous experience and knowledge being more strategic in battles,less naive and more calm and collected not reacting to provocations like Kanto Ash would.

    Ash has been toned down,not reset.There is difference.

    Reason is once again because of BW games doing revamp to some degree with writers puting Ash character in surrounding to give out that impression.Shootie is rather rookie and complete xenophobe for that matter,both Iris and Cilan are experienced trainers at this point and Pikachu being toned down with Zekrom excuse being provided not helping it either.Its not so much problem within Ash but all those other elements in Best Wishes which are treating series like a "new start"putting his character in uncomfortable position at current moment.

    Like i said somewhere else.
    Unova being treated as far and isolated region with Iris and Cilan not being beginners is one of main reasons why Ash character has been portrayed as "toned down".To better emphasize on fact of being new in Unova not knowing anything about customs and different methodology of battling people are using there,as well trying to make him blend with new group in more appropriate manner.
    People may hate it or not but thats most likely reason beside several things which happened in BW so far.

    You admit your belief that the show doesn't currently allow for character's to age (that's a reason you don't think a new character should be introduced) yet you also say the writers should age Ash back to the way he was. 1)You admit that up until now he'd clearly aged and 2)if they should do it for Ash they CAN do it for a new character. The no-aging rule is something that you yourself have acknowledged can be used and discarded at the will of the writers.
    Ash have never aged.In OS,AG and DP he was still 10 with main rule set in pokemon being how characters will never age.This was confirmed by ex pokemon director mr.Hidaka in interview as well.

    Both Hoenn sand Sinnoh in one of episodes stated how Ash is still 10 year old.

    Whoever comes instead of Ash he will stay 10 forever being stuck in endless loop.However let say writers change opinion and decide to age characters,why not do this with Ash?Having him age would mean arise of options through which his character can be taken forward being developed in different directions.Something which isnt possible to do with current age limit.

    Its an economically good way to look at things when the current agenda is alienating fans and its also simply a fact that sometimes you have to consider it. I'm not saying it should be your first option, but it should always be an option on the table. Heck, that's the option used to start any business up because that's the first big risk you take.
    Change is usually taken in consideration if current formula starts to dry out with ratings beginning to drop.As we can see pokemon anime is still doing very good(ratings are pretty impressive even after 13 years) with Ash being well accepted among new generations having marketing value.There simply doesnt exist any reason for writers to risk everything when they already have character who was proved to be appropriate for this job.

    I'm of the belief that the writers discussed getting rid of Ash and were split on the idea, so they reached a compromise and settled on semi-rebooting him. I can't comment on Beyblade (As I haven't watched the new series after G Revolution) but GX and 5DS both managed to hold their own. The same can be said for the various series of Digimon after Adventure. All of them featured new characters, but they all did well. All have their fans. All have their haters. That's simply something that can't be avoided no matter what you do. And its the same case for Misty and Brock leaving. Tracy, May and Dawn all have their haters, but they have their fans as well. In fact a good argument can be made for which female companion is the most popular. Also, don't even try to tell me people weren't sick of Brock and didn't want him gone. Negative feedback is something that the show receives now. Every show gets it. It's unavoidable.
    I dont think writers even considered to replace Ash.Like i said main motivation behind several changes in anime happening most likely because of changes in games with writers wanting to stay faithful toward interpretation of Unova as very far and foreign region with Black and White trying to sell us "vibe of fresh start".

    Otherwise how to explain contests being ditched,Brock being replaced,older pokemon not being showcased at all(something which never happened in OS,AG or DP)?

    Also just a small correction,Digimon did well.Yugioh not so much.GX was received badly with many disliking new protagonist Jaden and reboot of original anime starting to lose interest for new show.This can be evidenced in significant drop of TV ratings which were shadow of their former selves.Granted 5D recovered a but,but with Zexal majority hates new series viewing them as "cheap knock of"from DM show.

    About Brock i was talking about his departure for Orange Islands which caused backlash among fandom,just like Misty caused even bigger one after Johto.Also most people which complained about Brock didnt really wanted him gone,but more that writers actually start doing something with character story taking him somewhere.Recent increase of demand for his return shows how fandom really felt about character.

    As evidenced there are several examples where character departure isnt accepted well.I believe your underestimating iconic status of Ash character.Majority of fans associate pokemon with Ash and Pikachu being recognized and popular worldwide like none of other characters ever was.He is main face of anime franchise being extremely popular and well liked promoting new games and attracting new viewers toward anime.Taking him away could lead to massive complaining with many of today viewers quitting with show in response.

    If writers wished to replace Ash 8 years ago they had chance which could bring promising results.But after 14 years its simply too late with risk out- weighting benefit.

    Hmm, you say that writers only care about the old fans, but you don't bother to think of both sides of that argument. The bottom line is that younger kids may have no problem with Ash but they also have no connection to him. There's no reason for them to want him gone, but there's also no reason for them to want him to stay. Either way it doesn't matter, so whatever argument yo make concerning their wants is a bit of a moot point. Also, you're still assuming that most fans want Ash to stay and that they still love him, when you have no proof to back this up. You refer to his haters as a small minority who don't matter because you've seen proof on youtube or other sites that he's still loved. Look harder on those sites dude, I guarantee you you'll see just as many people who hate him.
    If older fans doesnt matter anymore and if Ash is doing great among target demographic being successful in promoting new games what is point of writers replacing him?

    Why they would take risk of people losing interest in new Pokemon anime with new protagonist being made with ratings dropping down by replacing Ash when he is already doing his job just fine for them?
    New kids may have not been attached like older generations of fans were,but they are still viewing this show as his journey associating pokemon with Ash character being someone who represents series to them.

    Further more you cant throw whole target audience in same boat,because it has already been established how thanks to reruns of previous seasons,DVDs,older relatives,internet etc good chunk of today kids are familiar with Ash character getting info abut his past achievements.Which results in connecting on closer level with character becoming attached to it.

    Speaking of older fandom,i have been part of online fanbase for 9 years already and wherever i went i encountered same result.Some people whine how Ash should leave,but majority judging by their comments are supporting Ash wanting him stay with polls and debates in most cases going in his favor.Add to that all those fans which want original trio reunited again and it becomes apparent how having main protagonist retired is not on list of their personal desires.

    Most show veterans want that writers do more with older characters like Misty,Brock,May etc being developed more,.Its generally agreed how most characters which left werent used to full potential leaving before their time was up.So why repeat same mistake with Ash?
    Why not flesh him out and develop properly which could allow for proper closure being able to see his character doing new and fresh things enriching story and personality.

    With current situation in BW having Ash lav wouldnt provide non of this with things being left undefined and unresolved if he left after BW.
    I find his character deserve better treatment and satisfying development,and im sure even those who want him gone feel deep down inside same.

    You're contradicting yourself at this point. You've admitted that most kids don't know or care of Ash's past, so they wouldn't recognize him as the face of Pokemon and wouldn't see him as the driving force behind the show. That would be Pikachu. Also, I never said he wasn't the main character. I've said that he's no longer the reason MOST PEOPLE or even younger kids watch the show. I don't even think he's the reason people start watching the show anymore. Just as Tai wasn't the reason most fans watched Digimon and Tyson wasn't the reason most fans watched Beyblade. Also, i'd bet a large sum of money that there are various other characters random people would recognize from the show besides Ash and Pikachu. You've still shown no proof that he's the driving force, i've still seen no proof on any website that he's the driving force, so as of now i'm going to conclude that no such proof exists.
    I dont think i contradicted myself at all.New generations dont need to watch previous series to comprehend how pokemon is show about Ash journey as character with whole plot revolving around him.Title for pokemon series have stated times and times how this series are about Ash story(10 year old from Pallet town striving to become master).

    Ash and Pikachu are viewed as main faces of anime franchise with people associating pokemon with them.They are show mascots providing identity with their global popularity and iconic status attracting new people toward it.

    Since anime revolves around Ash being main focus of attention with people viewing it as show about his journey of becoming pokemon master he is pokemon anime driving force.

    You're right about the point of a reboot, but who's saying the show should be rebooted? A new character doesn't mean a reboot has to happen. The story could still continue and ctually, it DIDN'T and has NEVER happened in Yu-Gi-Oh. There were various characters referenced in GX besides Yugi and just because they didn't make an appearance doesn't mean they didn't exist, being mentioned is enough. It proved the story was simply set years later in a different location, with different characters. I'm not suggesting the new kid start anywhere, I simply made an assumption and created a scenario on what could happen IF he did.
    Aside from Yugi and brief mention of Kaiba all previous major characters which were part of main cast were never mentioned,let alone appeared.From 5D and onwards none of characters from original series and GX never appeared.

    If anime isnt rebooted still being set in same timeline with same continuity,why on earth would writers introduce new character messing up with anime plot and current structure of show?We already have Ash and older cast which is more than appropriate for current series.
    No point in introducing new character if pokemon show isnt rebooted.That would just diminish and ruin whole point of "starting out fresh".

    If Ash leaves and gets replaced,there wont be made any continuation with anime going through complete overhaul.

    I'm sorry but your point about overhauling a series makes no sense. Again, Gundam, Digimon Adventure 2, Yu-Gi-Oh: three series that overhauled but didn't do it completely in that all the old characters still exist. There's a difference between a minor and a complete overhaul and in fact overhaul isn't even the right term to use for what people are asking for. What people want isn't a reboot or an overhaul of the franchise, its a sequel series.
    And what happened in future reincarnations of said show?Complete reboot,from Digimon Tamers and onwards all previous characters stopped existing,in Yugioh GX only semi important character aside from Yugi which actually appeared was Pegasus just to cut down all ties with previous series with 5D and Zexal.

    As result ratings suffered with people complaining massively.

    People want to follow adventures of already experienced and matured protagonist developing forward with new things being don with it.With character having to deal with various struggles and problems being already competent and established as trainer.

    They dont want to see another greenhorn starting out from scratch being completely inexperienced,not knowing how to battle,losing battles everywhere taking him forever to win league.Ash even in his worst day currently is much more knowledgeable than new protagonist would ever be.

    Also if sequel is being made that means continuation of series being made with same characters and same main star.Meaning how Ash wont leave unless anime goes through complete clean slate starting out as completely new show erasing all connections with current anime.

    Just note, giving him a Pikachu doesn't mean it has to be his starter pokemon or have the same relationship with him as Ash's Pikachu.
    Pikachu is main mascot of pokemon franchize.His face is basically on all pokemon products representing whole show,games,cards,toys etc.

    Yellow rodent has too big marketing value and popularity to be excluded out.If someone takes up Ash place,he will without doubt receive Pikachu as his main partner.

    You have yet to give one single reason for why Ash should be kept on. If anything, i'm saying that there are reasons for both options. He could be kept on or he could be let go.
    Because of:
    -potential consequence of huge backlash from fanbase following Ash departure with fans starting to lose interest for new show which pulls with itself drop of TV ratings
    -Ash is being viewed as anime mascot being worldwide recognized and popular as someone who is representing whole show and his leaving could cause anime starting to lose reputation and identity among people.
    --By taking out Ash you would also take out mascot of pokemon franchise(Pikachu)which given his iconic status could result in destroying its association with pokemon anime.Which could lead to drop of sales.
    -considering how Ash is already doing job of promoting new games more than good being worldwide popular and iconic there is no need to introduce someone new
    -its better to continue develop of already somewhat experienced trainer who has background behind him to support his future achievements with writers just picking up from where they stopped continuing to gradually develop Ash character instead of going from scratch with new guy watching same all story all over again.

    Both options have merit. I'd also like to say that you're making Ash out to be more interesting than he currently is. What does he have left to do accept win a regional tournament? Become a Pokemon Master? There are still no set rules for making that happen. Defeat the Elite 4 or Champion? That could easily happen in an arc designed for them before he's let go. And as i've said before I don't think we will or need to see him become a Pokemon Master, because that's not the main point of the series. This is a story about the journey, not the end goal. The journey itself is whats important here, not necessarily achieving the dream.
    I believe i already mentioned several times,what is left to do with Ash character:Like developing him more in character sense.Ash is still quite brash and impulsive having several flaws which are standing on his way of achieving his goal rushing into things without thinking,having problems in utilizing power of his pokemon to their true potential,being at times overconfident overestimating his abilities as trainer costing him matches in process etc.
    For someone to become best trainer in world(pokemon master)he would need to get over this flaws establishing close bond with their pokemon,be good at planning and utilizing their pokemon to their fullest etc.

    We could learn more about Ash backstory providing vectors for new development,.Like finding out what happened with his father,getting to play some role in legendary pokemon arc(like Hoi-oh and his mysterious appearances)etc.

    His goal of pokemon master has barely been explored and we dont know what other steps someone may need to accomplish after winning league or battling E4 with whole concept of pokemon master goal being for large part still undefined.And writers could certainly create other side quests like OI or BF was Ash would enter with purpose of learning more and advancing his skills.

    So why not follow Ash further development as trainer going on bigger and better things doing more with already established character?Most fans dont care when Ash is going to receive closure just enjoying in show for what it is.They just enjoy in journey and new adventures with main protagonist being made not being bothered when this will com to its final destination.

    No need to hurry with things.

  12. #567
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    This question has been for every character in Pokemon. Ash, Brock, Misty in Johto, Tracy when OS was in, etc. Whatever is not working for us we will ask this question. No big deal. But I, like other fans don't think he should be thrown away until he has done something more better. The other characters didn't have that chance on screen but they can make it better for Ash. But it's all about lazyness.

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    Registered User Blue1225's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Yes some fans were sick from Ash character(some already in Kanto) but that isnt representing general consensus among fandom.Every character will have its share of fans and haters not being possible to please everyone,your point?

    Pokemon anime is intended to be one anime with continuity following adventures of same characters.Just like Naruto,One Piece or DBZ did.

    Writers had their chance to change anime several years ago treating it like Digimon or Yugioh wrapping up series after certain story arc is being done starting out new show after relatively small time after 2 to 5 years at most.However that ship sailed away long time ago with Ash becoming too integrated within anime being its driving force for almost 15 years and counting.

    Replacing whole cast after few years is one thing,but trying to revamp completely show like pokemon who is going on with Ash for more than 13 years is something completely different.
    At this point people already view pokemon series as Ash and older characters show becoming too used to this concept scoring huge popularity.
    Trying to take that away might result in big repercussions and big portion of viewers being lost with interest for new show fading away.

    Do we really need gazillion of new anime being made following adventures of new protagonists?If Ash leaves i would rather want that anime ends once for all as well.Whats the point in creating dozen of new series following new guys doing same all gym quest Ash is currently doing,with formula going through rinse and repeat?

    Quite frankly i would rather have that Ash sticks around with pokemon series ending when time comes with character who started everything and his traveling companions being treated as one big continuity which introduced us to world of s pokemon giving us insight in their adventures.
    I want to remember pokemon as something which played part in my childhood having good memories of it instead of everything being dropped by starting out new series with cheap attempt of replicating original show and Ash character ruining picture pokemon anime had and everything it stood for.

    Not to mention if they closed down Ash story right now that would result with crappy and poorly written closure with Ash character not being developed enough to allow to tie up loose ends in his story properly.
    To make his growth as trainer believable making notable step forward in his career of pokemon trainer which would serve as indication of his character coming very close toward ultimate goal that isnt possible to achieve with current development right now.



    Right here you contradicted yourself.If fans are getting sick of females being constantly replaced,than they would very likely get sick of new male protagonist(Ash replacement)as well.What is even worse,is that Ash successor might end up even worse and more boring with people becoming fed up with it.

    Do we really need that,just because few fans cant enjoy in Ash anymore?

    Sometimes its possible to regain interest in character,and many fans are already liking Ash.



    That doesnt make any sense.In past writers already screwed some things up with Ash character treating his pokemon and rivals poorly,revamping Pikachu strength and treating his story at times poorly but they also managed to fix mistakes getting character back on right track.



    On other hand all i see being given up on Ash as character not understanding how he has potential and room to bring more on table.Who is to say Ash cant get be back on right track restoring experience and knowledge?

    Main issue with new protagonist is because he wouldnt offer anything new on table.Examples from Yugioh arent very valid nor bringing up good point because pokemon is show which is primarily geared toward small kids being just another tool to promote new games.Formula of anime in current format have several limitations to allow new guy to b different and unique from Ash.

    New character cant have very different personality because typical shouenn hero is writers way to appeal toward new kids.For same reason Tyson from Beyblade,Dan from Bakugan etc are having similar špersonalitis like Ash dos being typically naive,stubborn and reckless.

    He will still do gyms because thats in reality only real option and sidequest available in games to give him to do.Writers wont get rid of Pikachu which is series main mascot meaning right there another similarity with Ash.

    Further more if he stays going by current formula he will get reset and dumb down at start of every new region like Ash does.

    So im asking again whats the point in introducing new character and replacing Ash?He will be more or less just"copy-paste"of current protagonist not bringing bigger entertainment value,higher ratings and better story-path through which we will follow him.

    On other hand new character wont be nearly as much recognized and iconic to anime like Ash after 15 years has been,meaning how people will have harder time in associating pokemon with his character due to not bringing same identity to pokemon show like Ash currently does.

    People who want Ash gone needs to look at bigger picture in here taking i account all potential consequences his departure might cause.
    There is one saying"everyone deserves second chance".Well i guess thats not the case with pokemon and its characters,is it?



    Ash has never aged and talking about "reset",people forget this happened already at start of AG and DP as well.Just to smaller extent.Last time i checked Ash wasnt experienced to same extent like he was in Battle Frontier when defeating Brandon and Regice doing some beginner mistakes along with Pikachu being toned down in power.Just compare his strength at start of Sinnoh and end of BF.That Ash didnt had same amount of experience taking some time in DP to get back on 100%.

    Also for character to be reset he needs to be revamped doing things from scratch.Thats not the case with Ash as evidenced in BW writers are showing signs of his previous experience and knowledge being more strategic in battles,less naive and more calm and collected not reacting to provocations like Kanto Ash would.

    Ash has been toned down,not reset.There is difference.

    Reason is once again because of BW games doing revamp to some degree with writers puting Ash character in surrounding to give out that impression.Shootie is rather rookie and complete xenophobe for that matter,both Iris and Cilan are experienced trainers at this point and Pikachu being toned down with Zekrom excuse being provided not helping it either.Its not so much problem within Ash but all those other elements in Best Wishes which are treating series like a "new start"putting his character in uncomfortable position at current moment.

    Like i said somewhere else.
    Unova being treated as far and isolated region with Iris and Cilan not being beginners is one of main reasons why Ash character has been portrayed as "toned down".To better emphasize on fact of being new in Unova not knowing anything about customs and different methodology of battling people are using there,as well trying to make him blend with new group in more appropriate manner.
    People may hate it or not but thats most likely reason beside several things which happened in BW so far.



    Ash have never aged.In OS,AG and DP he was still 10 with main rule set in pokemon being how characters will never age.This was confirmed by ex pokemon director mr.Hidaka in interview as well.

    Both Hoenn sand Sinnoh in one of episodes stated how Ash is still 10 year old.

    Whoever comes instead of Ash he will stay 10 forever being stuck in endless loop.However let say writers change opinion and decide to age characters,why not do this with Ash?Having him age would mean arise of options through which his character can be taken forward being developed in different directions.Something which isnt possible to do with current age limit.



    Change is usually taken in consideration if current formula starts to dry out with ratings beginning to drop.As we can see pokemon anime is still doing very good(ratings are pretty impressive even after 13 years) with Ash being well accepted among new generations having marketing value.There simply doesnt exist any reason for writers to risk everything when they already have character who was proved to be appropriate for this job.



    I dont think writers even considered to replace Ash.Like i said main motivation behind several changes in anime happening most likely because of changes in games with writers wanting to stay faithful toward interpretation of Unova as very far and foreign region with Black and White trying to sell us "vibe of fresh start".

    Otherwise how to explain contests being ditched,Brock being replaced,older pokemon not being showcased at all(something which never happened in OS,AG or DP)?

    Also just a small correction,Digimon did well.Yugioh not so much.GX was received badly with many disliking new protagonist Jaden and reboot of original anime starting to lose interest for new show.This can be evidenced in significant drop of TV ratings which were shadow of their former selves.Granted 5D recovered a but,but with Zexal majority hates new series viewing them as "cheap knock of"from DM show.

    About Brock i was talking about his departure for Orange Islands which caused backlash among fandom,just like Misty caused even bigger one after Johto.Also most people which complained about Brock didnt really wanted him gone,but more that writers actually start doing something with character story taking him somewhere.Recent increase of demand for his return shows how fandom really felt about character.

    As evidenced there are several examples where character departure isnt accepted well.I believe your underestimating iconic status of Ash character.Majority of fans associate pokemon with Ash and Pikachu being recognized and popular worldwide like none of other characters ever was.He is main face of anime franchise being extremely popular and well liked promoting new games and attracting new viewers toward anime.Taking him away could lead to massive complaining with many of today viewers quitting with show in response.

    If writers wished to replace Ash 8 years ago they had chance which could bring promising results.But after 14 years its simply too late with risk out- weighting benefit.



    If older fans doesnt matter anymore and if Ash is doing great among target demographic being successful in promoting new games what is point of writers replacing him?

    Why they would take risk of people losing interest in new Pokemon anime with new protagonist being made with ratings dropping down by replacing Ash when he is already doing his job just fine for them?
    New kids may have not been attached like older generations of fans were,but they are still viewing this show as his journey associating pokemon with Ash character being someone who represents series to them.

    Further more you cant throw whole target audience in same boat,because it has already been established how thanks to reruns of previous seasons,DVDs,older relatives,internet etc good chunk of today kids are familiar with Ash character getting info abut his past achievements.Which results in connecting on closer level with character becoming attached to it.

    Speaking of older fandom,i have been part of online fanbase for 9 years already and wherever i went i encountered same result.Some people whine how Ash should leave,but majority judging by their comments are supporting Ash wanting him stay with polls and debates in most cases going in his favor.Add to that all those fans which want original trio reunited again and it becomes apparent how having main protagonist retired is not on list of their personal desires.

    Most show veterans want that writers do more with older characters like Misty,Brock,May etc being developed more,.Its generally agreed how most characters which left werent used to full potential leaving before their time was up.So why repeat same mistake with Ash?
    Why not flesh him out and develop properly which could allow for proper closure being able to see his character doing new and fresh things enriching story and personality.

    With current situation in BW having Ash lav wouldnt provide non of this with things being left undefined and unresolved if he left after BW.
    I find his character deserve better treatment and satisfying development,and im sure even those who want him gone feel deep down inside same.



    I dont think i contradicted myself at all.New generations dont need to watch previous series to comprehend how pokemon is show about Ash journey as character with whole plot revolving around him.Title for pokemon series have stated times and times how this series are about Ash story(10 year old from Pallet town striving to become master).

    Ash and Pikachu are viewed as main faces of anime franchise with people associating pokemon with them.They are show mascots providing identity with their global popularity and iconic status attracting new people toward it.

    Since anime revolves around Ash being main focus of attention with people viewing it as show about his journey of becoming pokemon master he is pokemon anime driving force.



    Aside from Yugi and brief mention of Kaiba all previous major characters which were part of main cast were never mentioned,let alone appeared.From 5D and onwards none of characters from original series and GX never appeared.

    If anime isnt rebooted still being set in same timeline with same continuity,why on earth would writers introduce new character messing up with anime plot and current structure of show?We already have Ash and older cast which is more than appropriate for current series.
    No point in introducing new character if pokemon show isnt rebooted.That would just diminish and ruin whole point of "starting out fresh".

    If Ash leaves and gets replaced,there wont be made any continuation with anime going through complete overhaul.



    And what happened in future reincarnations of said show?Complete reboot,from Digimon Tamers and onwards all previous characters stopped existing,in Yugioh GX only semi important character aside from Yugi which actually appeared was Pegasus just to cut down all ties with previous series with 5D and Zexal.

    As result ratings suffered with people complaining massively.

    People want to follow adventures of already experienced and matured protagonist developing forward with new things being don with it.With character having to deal with various struggles and problems being already competent and established as trainer.

    They dont want to see another greenhorn starting out from scratch being completely inexperienced,not knowing how to battle,losing battles everywhere taking him forever to win league.Ash even in his worst day currently is much more knowledgeable than new protagonist would ever be.

    Also if sequel is being made that means continuation of series being made with same characters and same main star.Meaning how Ash wont leave unless anime goes through complete clean slate starting out as completely new show erasing all connections with current anime.



    Pikachu is main mascot of pokemon franchize.His face is basically on all pokemon products representing whole show,games,cards,toys etc.

    Yellow rodent has too big marketing value and popularity to be excluded out.If someone takes up Ash place,he will without doubt receive Pikachu as his main partner.



    Because of:
    -potential consequence of huge backlash from fanbase following Ash departure with fans starting to lose interest for new show which pulls with itself drop of TV ratings
    -Ash is being viewed as anime mascot being worldwide recognized and popular as someone who is representing whole show and his leaving could cause anime starting to lose reputation and identity among people.
    --By taking out Ash you would also take out mascot of pokemon franchise(Pikachu)which given his iconic status could result in destroying its association with pokemon anime.Which could lead to drop of sales.
    -considering how Ash is already doing job of promoting new games more than good being worldwide popular and iconic there is no need to introduce someone new
    -its better to continue develop of already somewhat experienced trainer who has background behind him to support his future achievements with writers just picking up from where they stopped continuing to gradually develop Ash character instead of going from scratch with new guy watching same all story all over again.



    I believe i already mentioned several times,what is left to do with Ash character:Like developing him more in character sense.Ash is still quite brash and impulsive having several flaws which are standing on his way of achieving his goal rushing into things without thinking,having problems in utilizing power of his pokemon to their true potential,being at times overconfident overestimating his abilities as trainer costing him matches in process etc.
    For someone to become best trainer in world(pokemon master)he would need to get over this flaws establishing close bond with their pokemon,be good at planning and utilizing their pokemon to their fullest etc.

    We could learn more about Ash backstory providing vectors for new development,.Like finding out what happened with his father,getting to play some role in legendary pokemon arc(like Hoi-oh and his mysterious appearances)etc.

    His goal of pokemon master has barely been explored and we dont know what other steps someone may need to accomplish after winning league or battling E4 with whole concept of pokemon master goal being for large part still undefined.And writers could certainly create other side quests like OI or BF was Ash would enter with purpose of learning more and advancing his skills.

    So why not follow Ash further development as trainer going on bigger and better things doing more with already established character?Most fans dont care when Ash is going to receive closure just enjoying in show for what it is.They just enjoy in journey and new adventures with main protagonist being made not being bothered when this will com to its final destination.

    No need to hurry with things.
    So I had almost the entire response written up, when I accidentally deleted it. Since it seems like were just going in circles anyways i'm just gonna end this discussion between the 2 of us. I still stand by my thoughts on Ash being replaced and you still stand by yours.

    "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best". -Karen

    "For every pokemon there is a purpose and a time when it can shine under the sun." -Blue1225

  14. #569

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    I have pretty much decided that Best Wishes is the last series I am going to follow. If Ash stays again in Gen 6, I am not really going to bother.

    I don't need to see the same character on an endless journey over 20 years. I was already thinking about stopping when DP ended, but Best Wishes had some things that interested me like the TR arc and Cilan. So for the most part, if Ash isn't wrapped up at the end of Best Wishes, then I guess I'll just stop there.

    Some us will be in our 30's before Ash's journey ends, and that's disturbing when you think about it.

  15. #570
    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Some us will be in our 30's before Ash's journey ends, and that's disturbing when you think about it.
    Personally, I don't think that sounds disturbing. I never expected Ash to still be the main character when I reached my 20's, or that Pokemon would last over a decade, when I first got into the series when I was around eleven or twelve, so Ash being around for another eight years, and more, wouldn't really surprise or bother me. It's just how the show works and while I still understand why people want to see him being replaced, I don't think that the writers are going to go that route at this point. I still think that replacing Ash would have worked if they had done that for Johto or for AG since that was the second series, but I think it's far too late for them to start replacing their main character. Besides that, by the time I reach 30, I imagine that I'll have more things on my plate to worry about than Ash still being the main character in Pokemon.

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