Do you think Ash/Satoshi should be replaced? - Page 15
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  1. #211

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    The writers aren't going to risk there money just for the hell of it.
    How does no Ash risk them money? That makes no sense since older fans don't make up much of the ratings to begin with.

  2. #212
    Not A Piece of Cake Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    How does no Ash risk them money? That makes no sense since older fans don't make up much of the ratings to begin with.
    Did you not read my post? Satoshi has something called originality, he's well known among older fans and younger fans. Nintendo likes it when everyone buys there crap, they use Satoshi for a lot of the toys they make and marketing a lot of the other stuff like bikes, mcdonalds stuff, toys, and merchandise. Take one visit to the "Pokemon Center" stores and you'll see what exactly I mean. Those stores are flooded with people. Now why would the producers risk that? Satoshi is a marketing tool he does his job great why would they risk that? Why should Satoshi be replaced?

  3. #213

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    What in the world? You think they won't make new merchandize for a new character?

  4. #214
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    What in the world? You think they won't make new merchandize for a new character?
    Thanks for proving me right. Why would they go through the trouble of making a new guy, who will do the exact same thing. Badges, Leagues, friends, Pikachu. When Satoshi already does all that and sells a huge amount of merchandise and advertisies the show greatly? And to boot that the show gets top 10 in ratings every week. This franchise is a gold mine, why should they risk that?

  5. #215

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Why go through all the trouble of introducing a new girl to do Contests? Or new travel companions?

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Why go through all the trouble of introducing a new girl to do Contests? Or new travel companions?
    Because they wanted to introduce Contest to the Anime and market the new games simple as that. Nothing shocking. Now answer my question.

  7. #217

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    And why can't they make money with a new male protagonist?

  8. #218
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    And why can't they make money with a new male protagonist?
    Because it would be harder to make a new male. Do you know all the work that has to be put into it? Including advertiseing. In the end it would be the same thing Pikachu, Badges, Friends, Adventure, and all the other stuff. So it the end what's the point? Why should Satoshi be replaced? Everything's going great with ratings in the top 10 and the sales are through the roof, so what's the point? Why should they replace Satoshi?

  9. #219

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    Because it would be harder to make a new male. Do you know all the work that has to be put into it?
    LOL, so much work! It'd be similar "work" as into the promotion they did with Dawn back in DP.

    Seems like they did this before. Who the hell do you think these people are? These are highly paid professionals, not 15 year old kids working for minimum wage.

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    LOL, so much work! It'd be similar "work" as into the promotion they did with Dawn back in DP.
    This is a main character, not a side character. And like I said, "What's the point". Why should they replace Satoshi? They aren't going to do so just to please Anime fans. What reason should they?
    Seems like they did this before. Who the hell do you think these people are? These are highly paid professionals, not 15 year old kids working for minimum wage.
    But, Scott What's the point? What's the point? Why should the writers replace Satoshi? I can't think of anything.

  11. #221

    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    The "work" they did for Dawn is about the same work they'd need to do for a main male. Dawn got a tremendous amount of promotion back when DP first started, especially if you see all those original Japanese adverts hyping up the DP series back in 2006.

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    So, question for all the people who insist that replacing Satoshi would be a good idea.

    Can any of you name one - just one! - example of a show that went on for 14 years, then replaced the main character after all that time, and then continued to be successful after that?

    I know I've asked this before in another thread, but I never got any answers. Which leads me to believe that there's absolutely no precedent for what a lot of you are claiming would be so great for this show.
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  13. #223
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    The "work" they did for Dawn is about the same work they'd need to do for a main male. Dawn got a tremendous amount of promotion back when DP first started, especially if you see all those original Japanese adverts hyping up the DP series back in 2006.
    You still haven't answered my question correctly, why should they replace Satoshi? Someone who's been on the show for about as long as I've been alive, just for the hell of it?

  14. #224
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I am not seeing the logic here. Using this point why did the writers even bother changing the anime so much after Johto? All those new ideas that were introduced in either AG, DP or BW didn't have to happen if the writers were, "lazy." Paul didn't have to exist, neither did Hunter J, the tremendous screentime for the Contests, etc.
    Because anime serves as tool through which new games are being advertized.Since Ash is doing this job just fine like new characters are with pokemon anime being labeled as show about his journey there is no reason to get rid of him.
    Especially after being in it for so long.

    They introduce new characters every saga. They now have the same for Iris and Cilan. Again, having to do it once more for a third main character makes no difference.
    Difference is that supporting characters arent nearly important to show like main star is.Writers can afford replacing traveling companions but trying to get rid of Ash who is driving force of pokemon series being its icon as well having high marketing value with people associating pokemon anime with him is just asking for trouble.

    The VA salary obviously wasn't as high for Satoshi in the early days. I also highly suspect Takeshi's VA salary being as high as it was after 13 years might have been a contributing reason for him finally being axed. TR are very expensive too, no wonder why they're not in every episode anymore.
    That doesnt make any sense.For multi-billion franchise like pokemon this shouldnt be much of problem for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    You're right, they probably would have to put a lot of care and effort into a new main character. Oh wait, haven't we already seen that? Dawn got a tremendous amount of screentime in DP, and even though she wasn't the "main" character, the effort they put into Dawn back in DP is all they have to do with a new male lead. Dawn had a new backstory, new animation, an entire ending theme, new rivals, new pokemon, new development. I don't see why you're saying that what they did with Dawn back in DP can't be applied to a new male hero who does Gyms.
    Except its much easier for writers to just continue further developing character which is already developed picking up from where they stopped knowing in which direction to take him as opposite to introducing completely new character starting everything from zero.

    Amount of effort which writers put in Dawn development is nothing to amount of effort and resources writers and producers would have to invest in creating completely new series with new protagonist.Comparing Dawn with Ash is like comparing pears to apples.

    By replacing Ash they would have to completely change structure of this show having to recreate everything from start for new protagonist.
    Fact that they cant get rid of main mascot Pikachu from this show as well having to stay faithful to typical heroic shonen type of character who is naive and stubborn while deeply caring for his pokemon doing right thing which is writers way of appealing toward young kids doesnt give them much to work with to differentiate new protagonist enough from Ash character.,

    Whoever would come after Ash would need to have more or less same personality un-replaceable Pikachu starting everything all over again like Ash did as rookie entering gyms and leagues is something which noon would want to watch.

    Very soon people would start complaining how new character is just cheap copy of Ash basically watching rerun of current show starting to lose interest for it.

    Replacing someone like Dawn is nothing compared to replacing main star who represents this show being its driving force.There is too much risk involved not being worth all the trouble of introducing new protagonist when Ash is already being popular doing its job of promoting new games and attracting new generations of kids toward this show just fine.

    For that reason and many others which were mentioned Ash should not be replaced.

    I love how people are acting like the sagas all feel the same, when we can all agree they do not. No two sagas of pokemon have ever felt the same, even if they all have Ash do Gyms. A new series with a new male would be nothing like any saga Ash was in.
    It is still show which follows relatively same formula of main character doing gyms and entering leagues,Not much has changed in basic formula this show has been following for all this years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kameinu View Post
    To clear things up. I'm just saying what I do because I just want the best for the character and do not wish to him get run into the ground without acomplishing his dreams or competently proving he can maintain consistency to do so. Replacing him or rebooting him are the only two options. And so far I believe the latter is the safest one.
    I cannot see how is this exactly best option?Rebooting Ash is even worse than replacing him with new protagonist.Having him deprived of any memories cutting any connection he had with previous regions,older pokemon and his traveling companions wouldnt make any sense making it seem like his previous journeys never happened in first place.

    Whats the point in keeping Ash if all of his memory and previous achievement he made gets erased leaving us with shell of a character along with all of previous characters which mattered to his life stopping to exist?

    Replacing Ash wont fix anything either with new protagonist still suffering from same mistakes writers are doing now.

    Getting rid of current character isnt solution in fixing problems being needed first to fix core of problem they are making with current character starting to gradually develop him making steps forward.
    Characters from other anime like Luffy from One Piece or Naruto are also long lived characters with writers gradually developing them making steps forward with fans welcoming such thing.
    If other anime dont replace their characters still doing great why should pokemon do any different with its main star?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Why did they get rid of Brock after 13 years? What difference does it make? Any effort into a new male lead is about the same they had to put into Dawn last gen.
    Reason why Brock got axed was because writers wanted to mirror changes which happened in BW games with anime making it seem as more of a fresh start than it was case with previous sagas.Fact that Ash stayed even after all this changes which happened to show when writers had opportunity to remove him at end of Sinnoh should tell us how they are perfectly fine with keeping Ash nit seeing any need to axe him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    LMAO, I've answered this question 10 times already. There is NO risk. New generation of kids watch each saga.

    The writers can drop Ash for the same reason any other main character has been dropped. And yes, Ash's friends aren't as important as he was, but they were still once in every episode and in the early days, Misty/Brock "seemed" as important to the anime in general, and now they're both gone.
    If dropping Ash wouldnt involve any risk of ratings drop than how do you explain fact how both Brock departure in Orange Islands and Misty departure at end of Johto was received negatively among fans with TV ratings starting to drop because of several people quitting with show in protest?

    Why?Because people viewed them as original characters which brought identity to pokemon being worldwide recognized as such.Its always like this with first set of characters,not only in pokemon but in other anime as well.

    We are talking about two characters which are much less important than Ash is to this anime still lifting up so much dust.Well in Ash case its pretty much guaranteed how this would not only cause negative reactions but would also spell doom for this show causing so much damage that show would have to be cancelled.

    Majority of older fanbase supports Ash stay becoming attached to him,with same going for kids who started watching this show in previous generation(DP) still being among target audience becoming attached to main character like older fans are making significant portion of audience who brings them money.
    Needless to say many of new kids who start out with pokemon do some research about Ash background like others already pointed out viewing Ash as someone who brings identity to pokemon anime which is focused on his journey.

    Problem is that its too late to remove him at this point.Ash became so much integrated with this show and recognized as its mascot worldwide with people becoming too used to him that any attempt of taking him away brings more risk than benefit.It went to such point that people associate pokemon with him.

    From marketing point and story point there doesnt exist any reason for Ash to be replaced.Bringing new protagonist might lead to negative repercussions and lose of interest among people for new series which pulls consequence of ratings dropping like there is no tomorrow.

    If i was writer i know i wouldnt want to take such risk and once Ash gets replaced it would be too late to repair any possible damage this move could cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Yet the show continues to change every saga. They obviously like changing things. If they "didn't fix which wasn't broken," the show would have stayed the same way it was in Johto.
    Reason why main cast didnt stayed same past Johto has been already answered in at least two interviews with people who used to work for pokemon show.
    Partially it was because of advertizing reasons with new characters being better suited to do job of promoting contests but mainly because writers rather like to add new characters for "eye candy"purposes to try out new designs.

    It cant get more official than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    How does no Ash risk them money? That makes no sense since older fans don't make up much of the ratings to begin with.
    If older fans didnt mattered than please explain why writers bring references to past,brought Ash older pokemon back and older characters like May,Gary,Misty etc?
    Its obvious how continuity isnt the only reason.

    People who are no longer in target audience arent important like new kids are but they are still playing significant part of customers who buy pokemon products and watch this series with writers being well aware of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Seems like they did this before. Who the hell do you think these people are? These are highly paid professionals, not 15 year old kids working for minimum wage.
    Because of being professionals they wont axe Ash and risk everything they accomplished so far.We are talking about people who know how this show works better than any of us knowing what is proven to be successful formula and what isnt explaining reason why Ash stayed for so long and probably will continue to stay.

    Quite frankly i would rather have that Ash sticks around with pokemon series ending when time comes with character who started everything and his traveling companions being treated as one big continuity which introduced us to world of small creatures being known as pokemon giving us insight in their adventures.
    I want to remember pokemon as something which played part in my childhood having good memories of it instead of everything being dropped by starting out new series with cheap attempt of replicating original show and Ash character ruining picture pokemon anime had and everything it stood for.Thats not kind of pokemon i want to see or remember.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 14th July 2011 at 11:10 AM.

  15. #225
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    Default Re: Do you think Satoshi should be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    And how is this exactly best option?Rebooting Ash is even worse than replacing him with new protagonist.Having him deprived of any memories cutting any connection he had with previous regions,older pokemon and his traveling companions wouldnt make any sense making it seem like his previous journeys never happened in first place.


    Whats the point in keeping Ash if all of his memory and previous achievement he made gets erased leaving us with shell of a character along with all of previous characters which mattered to his life stopping to exist?

    Replacing Ash wont fix anything either with new protagonist still suffering from same mistakes writers are doing now.


    You have to look at it from a marketing standpoint but also caring about the character and what has been established. If the show keeps getting stretched, more material will be born, and most likely forgotten, thrown away. And since it will all belong to the same continuity it will keep pileling on and on and on just to be forgotten. Do you want to see more cases like Misty? Never to be acknowledged again? Might as well reboot and severe all ties.

    I'd rather see a new fresh continuity retelling how his adventures can go, than seeing what's been established get further neglected.

    Also, it's obvious the writers would preffer not to get rid of Ash, so rebooting him also makes things easier for them to write. The character would be a blank slate in a sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    Getting rid of current character isnt solution in fixing problems being needed first to fix core of problem they are making with current character starting to gradually develop him making steps forward.

    Characters from other anime like Luffy from One Piece or Naruto are also long lived characters with writers gradually developing them making steps forward with fans welcoming such thing.
    If other anime dont replace their characters still doing great why should pokemon do any different with its main star?
    The characters you've mentioned have been developed, and never dregraded back in competence. Which is what sadly happens to Ash. And the two anime you mentioned are different, they're based on currently running comics that have a thought out plot and don't do a weekly formula. Pokemon just vaguely takes material from the games it's "based" on and creates "story" plots that in the end take the characters nowhere. What Luffy has gone through has taken him from point A to point B and made him grow. If Ash goes through something he gets to the destination, and may be developed but then is reverted back and acts like nothing ever happened.

    If the character is going to be treated like that, and the writers expect us to accept there is a sense of continuity, they're better of having a certain protagonist for a number of series, then having a new on replace him. Because one can only maintain suspension of disbilief for so long.

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