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Thread: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

  1. #106

    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    I gotta say...Dent to me is like sugar. Yeah, he's adds more taste than Brock did...but too much and it's too sweet. And like a kid in a candy store, Dent is just an overdose of sugar. Every time he claims to be an x sommelier he looks like he's trying to overextend, over compensate and generally appears to be a jack of all trades but master of none.

    #tastingtime

  2. #107

    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by WildGamer View Post
    I gotta say...Dent to me is like sugar. Yeah, he's adds more taste than Brock did...but too much and it's too sweet. And like a kid in a candy store, Dent is just an overdose of sugar. Every time he claims to be an x sommelier he looks like he's trying to overextend, over compensate and generally appears to be a jack of all trades but master of none.

    #tastingtime
    And yet its still more entertaining than DP-era Brock, Tracey or Max....so you can't fault the writers there.

    The writers have never been all that particular good with male travel companions.

  3. #108

    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Eh, not really. Dent and Brock are almost one and the same to me. In fact, I'd rather have Brock save time by calmly explaining the situation than have Dent going off on a tangent about food and tasting while sommelier music hums in the background. I can see why people enjoy his presence on the show but personally he's just another character on the show that occasionally becomes irritating when he tries to insert himself into every activity ("x sommelier!").
    Last edited by WildGamer; 13th June 2012 at 02:47 PM.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: BW086: Pochama VS Yanappu, the Magnificent Battle airdate: 6/28

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    That's another argument that makes me smile, the idea that Dent is good at each of these things when for every thing he was shown to be good at (sommelier, fisherman, train conductor), he's actually hilariously failing at others (detective, scientist)
    I didn't see any hilariously failing or failing at all with his detective and scientist stuff. Could you please tell me how he exactly failed at being a detective and scientist sommelier? I've recently watched the episodes again(they're some of my favorites!) that involved him being a detective and scientist and I didn't see any failing.

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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Moved your post here as it related to Dent in general rather than the upcoming episode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    I didn't see any hilariously failing or failing at all with his detective and scientist stuff. Could you please tell me how he exactly failed at being a detective and scientist sommelier? I've recently watched the episodes again(they're some of my favorites!) that involved him being a detective and scientist and I didn't see any failing.
    As for the scientist sommelier, there's the fact that all his scientific explanations for phenomenon he doesn't understand are always wrong. He's the ultimate skeptic. In BW014, he said that the ventilation was broken or that low frequencies were making the suit move on its own, and his stubbornness at always claiming there's a scientific explanation when it's just Pokémon was repeatedly played for laughs. BW026 and BW030 are also good examples.

    As for the detective sommelier episode, it was half and half, Dent didn't solve the case all on his own, he needed Junsa's equipment and the one who guessed right about the cause was Arata, while Dent thought more along the lines of what's her face that it was caused by a Psychic Pokémon, but Dent was the one to crack the case by suggesting using Dangoro. It's not like Dent was a master detective in this, and was more a team effort.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Oh yes! I did find his science failures to be very funny and amusing with Iris' lines boosting the entertainment value with th entire Nature Vs. Technology thing they have going on! His little failing at being a detective didn't entertain me as much, but I know that that's because he didn't fail as much at it. Oh, and you forgot to say that he's a successful musical conductor sommelier as he helped conjure a rainbow with the help of Iris and Ash and many Pokemon in the Seven Coloured Arch ending. But, yeah it's not canon so it doesn't count I guess.

  7. #112

    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    As for the scientist sommelier, there's the fact that all his scientific explanations for phenomenon he doesn't understand are always wrong. He's the ultimate skeptic. In BW014, he said that the ventilation was broken or that low frequencies were making the suit move on its own, and his stubbornness at always claiming there's a scientific explanation when it's just Pokémon was repeatedly played for laughs. BW026 and BW030 are also good examples.
    Did he actually call himself a scientist sommelier, thought? If I remember correctly he was just a skeptic - nothing more, nothing less.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    Oh yes! I did find his science failures to be very funny and amusing with Iris' lines boosting the entertainment value with th entire Nature Vs. Technology thing they have going on!
    Yeah, that was one of the episodes where I actually felt like Iris belonged with the group and that there was an actual dynamic between them. Too bad there's less than a handful of those in all of Best Wishes cause Dent and other characters just deliver in the entertainment value while Iris brings it down. This was one of the times where it worked. It makes you wonder why the writers dropped that whole thing afterwards cause it was pretty much Dent being hilarious on his own in the Hitomoshi and Ligray episodes.

    His little failing at being a detective didn't entertain me as much, but I know that that's because he didn't fail as much at it.
    Luckily for all of us, Dent doesn't need to fail to entertain. Though I do agree he was severely underused in that episode, I think they could have pushed that detective sommelier thing a lot more like they sorta did with Nyasu in the Zuruzukin episode.

    Oh, and you forgot to say that he's a successful musical conductor sommelier as he helped conjure a rainbow with the help of Iris and Ash and many Pokemon in the Seven Coloured Arch ending. But, yeah it's not canon so it doesn't count I guess.
    Err... that's clearly not an actual skill... I don't know, I really like that Dent's really passionate about everything, because it really feels like he's grateful for the journey, for experiencing things he probably wouldn't have gotten the chance to had he stayed at the Gym and is being interested makes him and the thing he's passionate about more entertaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by WildGamer View Post
    Did he actually call himself a scientist sommelier, thought? If I remember correctly he was just a skeptic - nothing more, nothing less.
    In the Ligray episode he did when fangirling about the professor. In the Desumasu and Hitomoshi episodes, he's just not dealing well with things he can't explain rationally in an hilarious fashion.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    Oh yes! I did find his science failures to be very funny and amusing with Iris' lines boosting the entertainment value with th entire Nature Vs. Technology thing they have going on!
    Yeah, that was one of the episodes where I actually felt like Iris belonged with the group and that there was an actual dynamic between them. Too bad there's less than a handful of those in all of Best Wishes cause Dent and other characters just deliver in the entertainment value while Iris brings it down. This was one of the times where it worked. It makes you wonder why the writers dropped that whole thing afterwards cause it was pretty much Dent being hilarious on his own in the Hitomoshi and Ligray episodes.
    Umm.... Oh, okay ^_^! Just your usual Iris stuff that you're allowed to say like every other member here =).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Oh, and you forgot to say that he's a successful musical conductor sommelier as he helped conjure a rainbow with the help of Iris and Ash and many Pokemon in the Seven Coloured Arch ending. But, yeah it's not canon so it doesn't count I guess.
    Err... that's clearly not an actual skill...
    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    conductor
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Err... that's clearly not an actual skill...
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    clearly not an actual skill...
    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    not an actual skill






    YOU TAKE THAT BACK. Conduction, is in fact, a skill. You've pretty much offended conductors :O! It takes YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS to perfect such an amazing skill!

    Look at this example of a technique:


    Cilan used a technique with his fingers to the invisible instruments in the opening. But again, that isn't canon. Ash even has all of his Unova team out instead of 6. I doubt that Cilan is a musical genius too. oh and that Iris could sing :P
    Last edited by HumanDawn; 17th June 2012 at 01:29 PM.

  10. #115

    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Yes, conducting is an actual skill! You can get your masters in it and everything. It takes a lot of breath control, repose, and you have to be able to internalize rhythms, and think simultaneously of the current phrase, next phrase, and how the rest of the score will play out. TRUST ME, I KNOW.

    Not that a 4/4 pattern is all that hard to conduct, but of all the _____ sommelier talents Dent possesses, music sommelier is not that far off considering Dent's VA.


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  11. #116
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    I know conducting is an actual skill, but not one that Dent has actually demonstrated in episodes, ergo, it's not one of Dent's actual skills.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    Let me put away the gags for a minute an analize.

    I love Cilan's role on the show. It would have been better to have him in Musicals then for the writers to be having him do whatever they have him doing. He already is involved in half of the battles that goes on, plus he has the personality to keep the show entertaining, and his ablity to learn and battle is good for the show. If he was put in a competition of his own, imagine the possiblity.

  13. #118

    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    I guess Cilan is OK.
    But I think Brock was better.
    Cilan cooks, cleans, and is somewhat of a goof.
    Brock cooks, wears frilly aprons, rarely opens his eyes, and falls in love with at least 2 women a day.
    'Nuff said.
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  14. #119
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    I think Cilan's character is really lacking direction right now. There's a great opportunity with Striaton Gym not being in BW2 for Cilan, Cress and Chili to be written out in a good way, giving them each a good path to go forward with. The groundwork is there for Chili (Why isn't that spelt with two Ls?) - his interest in starting a fire type Gym in Unova is a good goal; for Cress, I think there's potential to work with Marlon to further a water type based goal, or for him to take control of the Gym on his own and expand out his types or something once Chili leaves; but for Cilan, very little has been done to establish his way forward.

    Cilan's captures make no sense - it seems odd that a Grass gym leader would not be capturing grass types. With Chili showing a specific interest in Fire types generally, you'd have assumed that Cilan and Cress would have similar associations with their Pokemon types. It would be fairly easy to achieve a diverse range of part-Grass typed Pokemon that would still allow Cilan to have tricks in battle, in line with the ignoring type-effectiveness stuff he admired Ash for, from the Unova dex, Ferroseed or Sewaddle would have been good, and Snover and Tropius would be even better from the wider dex - as they would come all with unique challenges for him to work through in battles, helping his connoisseur goals while also keeping the relation to grass types.

    But if Cilan's goal isn't about becoming a stronger Gym leader, then a lot has gone wrong. Cilan's tactics when using Crustle go counter to what you'd expect, he constantly uses the very risky shell smash in battle - with its ongoing success being a very bad way of highlighting the need to have balance and judgement in Pokemon choices that being a connoisseur is supposed to represent.

    Equally, he hasn't worked at all on training either Stunfisk or Pansage. I expected at the very least that we would have had the idea of evolving Pansage come up. Evolving your Pokemon - that's basic remember? Brock made an interesting point in one of the Pikachu vs Raichu episodes, that there are downsides to evolving Pokemon by stones, especially early - perhaps it's not being touched on because Ash's Pokemon seem to evolve every other episode, but it is another element of the knowledge of Pokemon that Cilan should be demonstrating that he just isn't in any of the episodes. His comments to Chili about movesets should have served to also highlight his own deficiencies, and if they didn't - why not Skyla mentioning how weak ThunderShock is when Stunfisk was battling her? For Cilan to develop as a character he really should have far more moments of self-evaluation.

    I fear a lot of this lack of development for Cilan comes down to the unknowns around Gen VI - if anyone is to do so, Cilan is certainly the more likely compared to Iris to carry forward into the next region - so it seems like they are setting him up to be as stagnant as Brock was so that he never has an excuse to go away and actually further his own goals. But the downside is that unlike the breeder aspiration, there's very little that has been shown in this time that are practical examples of the usage of his skills, his connoisseur-ing has been all but limited to episodes with Burgundy in them - and where he does use them like in the Chili episode, it just serves to highlight how his main unique purpose can indeed be served just as well in a booth in a Pokemart and how badly he is neglecting his own growth. Burgundy's comment in the recent dub episode is interesting, saying that she didn't have time to study/go to classes to improve her connoisseur rank - why hasn't Cilan's path to S class been explained even in that much detail? The anime seems to like having school based episodes in each arc, so an episode or two of connoisseur school wouldn't be too out of the question and would do a lot alone to further the understanding of exactly how Cilan needs to work to improve.

    The interaction with Ash is also fairly unbalanced - Cilan is supposed to be travelling around with Ash to learn from him. But time and time again, Ash is instead left to be the idiot in many episode storyline, which is at the expense of both him and Cilan. Cilan is neither assisting Ash in his Pokemon choices and move planning, nor is Ash being written to show enough skill (with some exceptions) to demonstrate to Cilan all the things that would actually help Cilan along in learning about his relationship with Pokemon. It's an odd dynamic where Ash manages to be portrayed as being inexperienced at the same time as supposedly being to some extent a mentor/study figure for Cilan - which does nothing for either character.

    Cilan's story is fairly open ended, by the Gym not existing in BW2 - they can write a story that doesn't have to finish with one of the trio being stuck back at the Gym while the others explore themselves. I'd rather see Cilan leave the show to take the S class test than him going back to the Gym or stumble on into the next region with no development just so Ash has someone to cook for him. But for that to be useful, something needs to happen soon to focus Cilan's goals outside of the rivalry with Burgundy.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Do you like Cilan/Dent's role in BW?

    I like him. Not as much as Brock but he is still a really cool and sexy guy. And I like his sommelier quirks.

    All I want is some development for him, that's all.

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