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  1. #76
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    If we set Gary as the default rival,

    Paul : Gary with more screentime and epic storyline

    Trip : Gary with more screentime and crappy storyline

    This is my reasoning

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    In all honesty, when it comes to pokemon training, Trip's being portrayed how Ash should be. Had a bond with his starter from the start, caught a team of pokemon pretty quickly, had those pokemon trained to a decent battling level, etc. These aren't things a new trainer should be able to do, unless he's been acknowledged as a genuis and he hasn't. You can say whatever you want, but you can't deny that Ash is an experienced trainer. Top 4 in the Sinnoh League, Champion of the Orange League, and Victor of the Battle Frontier. He's trained pokemon that have taken down legendaries. Pikachu is one of them. So whether he has 2 moves or 200 moves, Pikachu should NEVER have a problem taking down a pokemon that has no battling experience.

    Trip and Ash's entire rivalry just isn't interesting. Trip insults Ash at every turn, looks down on him for being from a different region, really has no development besides his past with Alder and his camera thing. And maybe its just me, but Ash never really seems to take any of Trip's insults properly. Like he doesn't hear them correctly and so he doesn't react correctly. It really makes him look like an idiot.

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    Registered User Cinderfella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    If these are the same writers who gave us Dawn's contest arc, you would think they'd be the same ones to write Trip's character as a whole. Seriously, even though people didn't favor Dawn's rivals, her journey from being a beginning coordinator who was a little too sure of herself, to being knocked down a beg, to becomming a rather good coordinator and actually coming in 2nd in the Grand Festival, was actually brilliant from my standpoint.

    Seriously, it's very hard to find Trip interesting, especially since Ash has basically no reaction to him. Yes, Paul's rival shoes would be hard for even Harley himself to fill if he wanted to be taken seriously, but seriously, Trip as a character needs to get his shit together in order to make the fans interested at all, and to a certain extent, Ash as well. You can't have the color of the rainbow as a Pokemon team if they are not by any shape or form going to be affected by your rivalry.

    I'm not saying we need another Infernape, but if Ash is going to continue capturing different pokemon, without each and every one of them being properly developed, then honestly, how can we as fans, bother to even care for these pokemon when they battle Trip, Ash's so called main rival.

    I'm desperately hoping Bianca saves the League, because Trip just ain't cuttin it.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    I don't see why they keep having to do the similar type of male rival either.

    Even a more friendly rival like Tyson from the Hoenn league would have been more enjoyable to see Ash go up against throughout a region.

    I think the problem is characters like Barry and Bianca are treated like joke rivals, yet they try to make Trip into another Paul or even Gary, and its failing miserably.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderfella View Post
    If these are the same writers who gave us Dawn's contest arc, you would think they'd be the same ones to write Trip's character as a whole.
    Between DP and BW, the writing staff has not changed. Unless I'm mistaken, Tomioka was behind pretty much all the major episodes that contained Paul and he's still writing for BW today (I think he was even the one who wrote that horrible Trubbish episode). That's the real zinger for me; it feels like the series underwent an abrupt change in management in the writing department, but... it hasn't. At all.

    And that's why I'm much less forgiving of the suckier aspects of BW, especially Trip. I mean, surely the writers must have felt they had hit their peak with Paul, a rival who pushed the boundaries of morality in the series and was notably opposite in nature of almost every other character in the series when it came to the cold, serious demeanor. And while Paul mellowed out after Brandon flattened him, these aspects of his character didn't change... and he was better off for it, because it was nice and realistically subtle.

    Once you make an accomplishment like that, logically the last thing you'd want to do is to try replicating that great achievement, only taking away everything away from Trip that made Paul awesome and make him just... kinda-sorta there. I promised my friends I'd add a picture of a color-reversed, saturated Paul in my next post here just to illustrate how goddamn lazy they were with Trip's design, but I'm at work right now so it'll have to wait. But every time I look back on Trip, I really wonder what the hell the writers were thinking while Trip was in the conceptual stages of his development behind the scenes.

    Since the writers have proved many times that they can make fantastic rivals, you'd think they would try to continue that awesome streak by producing a rival that has little to no similarities to Paul in the least, to disincline viewers from comparing the new rival to Paul and to put a new spin on an Ash rivalry since I'm sure DP pretty much proved to the writers that Ash is much better with a rival than he is without (AG). But this... this is so underwhelming that I think Ash might as well not have a rival in BW. His reactions to Trip are so weak and forced and... well, phoned in. Every now and then they try to give Trip some bits of personality, but all in all it doesn't stand out and I haven't seen the traits consistently carry out through each appearance aside from abusing the camera and being a total xenophobe.

    I've said this before, but I reluctantly believe Break The Haughty is what a lucky newbie like Trip needs, only I think he needs to be squashed by a Kanto-native trainer who isn't Ash rather than some bigshot in his home region. That way we might get some light shed on that, y'know? Otherwise, I'm certain the only way to properly put Trip in his place is for Ash to defeat him using a Kanto team. In any other scenario I'd be against this, but I really don't think Pikachu being the sole representative of Kanto is gonna cut it, especially when its track record has been so godawful this series.

    As for his upcoming appearance with Alder, I like to imagine Trip's whole childhood dream just shatters as he watches Alder Brock it up to maximum. Sorta like how a kid is told that Santa isn't real and they just stand there, letting it sink in before they break down. I'd just love that. Then again, I'm a sadist (even towards characters I like).

    But I'm sure they'll squander this opportunity and make it some dull battle with Trip just being mildly indignant or possibly indifferent or something underwhelming that just makes him wasted space in the episode.

    I could be wrong. I'd love for them to prove me wrong, but so far BW hasn't been very good about legitimately surprising me. Especially when it comes to Trip.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    ^ Ugh, yes. I'm tired of getting my hopes up when it comes to Shootie though, but I'll maintain a sliver of hope in this upcoming Adeku episode. If he can get his break the haughty moment and actually become interesting and endearing, than MAYBE, just MAYBE I'll find him interesting in the long run and start being able to forgive the writing's earlier shortcomings.

    That being said, Shootie would be much more entertaining to me if they played up the kuudere and made the photography thing an actual personality quirk. As opposed to just a hobby, as it's being portrayed.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Why is everyone comparing the male rivals to Gary? Maybe if we look at the differences in all of the rivals instead, we might come to like them each of them. And to answer the question, yes, I do find him interesting.

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Between DP and BW, the writing staff has not changed. Unless I'm mistaken, Tomioka was behind pretty much all the major episodes that contained Paul and he's still writing for BW today (I think he was even the one who wrote that horrible Trubbish episode). That's the real zinger for me; it feels like the series underwent an abrupt change in management in the writing department, but... it hasn't. At all.

    And that's why I'm much less forgiving of the suckier aspects of BW, especially Trip. I mean, surely the writers must have felt they had hit their peak with Paul, a rival who pushed the boundaries of morality in the series and was notably opposite in nature of almost every other character in the series when it came to the cold, serious demeanor. And while Paul mellowed out after Brandon flattened him, these aspects of his character didn't change... and he was better off for it, because it was nice and realistically subtle.

    Once you make an accomplishment like that, logically the last thing you'd want to do is to try replicating that great achievement, only taking away everything away from Trip that made Paul awesome and make him just... kinda-sorta there. I promised my friends I'd add a picture of a color-reversed, saturated Paul in my next post here just to illustrate how goddamn lazy they were with Trip's design, but I'm at work right now so it'll have to wait. But every time I look back on Trip, I really wonder what the hell the writers were thinking while Trip was in the conceptual stages of his development behind the scenes.

    Since the writers have proved many times that they can make fantastic rivals, you'd think they would try to continue that awesome streak by producing a rival that has little to no similarities to Paul in the least, to disincline viewers from comparing the new rival to Paul and to put a new spin on an Ash rivalry since I'm sure DP pretty much proved to the writers that Ash is much better with a rival than he is without (AG). But this... this is so underwhelming that I think Ash might as well not have a rival in BW. His reactions to Trip are so weak and forced and... well, phoned in. Every now and then they try to give Trip some bits of personality, but all in all it doesn't stand out and I haven't seen the traits consistently carry out through each appearance aside from abusing the camera and being a total xenophobe.

    I've said this before, but I reluctantly believe Break The Haughty is what a lucky newbie like Trip needs, only I think he needs to be squashed by a Kanto-native trainer who isn't Ash rather than some bigshot in his home region. That way we might get some light shed on that, y'know? Otherwise, I'm certain the only way to properly put Trip in his place is for Ash to defeat him using a Kanto team. In any other scenario I'd be against this, but I really don't think Pikachu being the sole representative of Kanto is gonna cut it, especially when its track record has been so godawful this series.

    As for his upcoming appearance with Alder, I like to imagine Trip's whole childhood dream just shatters as he watches Alder Brock it up to maximum. Sorta like how a kid is told that Santa isn't real and they just stand there, letting it sink in before they break down. I'd just love that. Then again, I'm a sadist (even towards characters I like).

    But I'm sure they'll squander this opportunity and make it some dull battle with Trip just being mildly indignant or possibly indifferent or something underwhelming that just makes him wasted space in the episode.

    I could be wrong. I'd love for them to prove me wrong, but so far BW hasn't been very good about legitimately surprising me. Especially when it comes to Trip.
    Wouldn't suggest it if the writers had done a better job, but they didn't. Trip seriously needs something that shakes him up. Personally i'm thinking something similar to what you suggested with a Kanto rival or something similar to what happened to Barry in the games. He loses to an evil team and it just crushes him to the point where he has to seriously re-think his training methods and style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Why is everyone comparing the male rivals to Gary? Maybe if we look at the differences in all of the rivals instead, we might come to like them each of them. And to answer the question, yes, I do find him interesting.
    ...Maybe because Gary was the first rival. You're always going to compare those who come after to the original. Paul was Gary done right. Trip is Paul done wrong. In fact i'd say the worst thing about Trip is that the writers didn't make him different enough from Paul or Gary. They kept the idea of him insulting Ash but now it just comes off as him thinking anyone from another region's some kind of uneducated hick.
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  9. #84
    Registered User Cinderfella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    Between DP and BW, the writing staff has not changed. Unless I'm mistaken, Tomioka was behind pretty much all the major episodes that contained Paul and he's still writing for BW today (I think he was even the one who wrote that horrible Trubbish episode). That's the real zinger for me; it feels like the series underwent an abrupt change in management in the writing department, but... it hasn't. At all
    Wow, I actually was unaware of this. Thanks for clearing that up, but it just makes Trip's character so much more unbealivable. Like, WTF? Why can't the writers have any consistency. I don't think the fans expected Trip to be BETTER than Paul, but damn, he should at least be somewhat interesting. I literally feel nothing when he's around. I would have preferred Conway stalk Ash and want to rival him for his believed love affair with Dawn and be Ash's rival, than this prick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    And that's why I'm much less forgiving of the suckier aspects of BW, especially Trip. I mean, surely the writers must have felt they had hit their peak with Paul, a rival who pushed the boundaries of morality in the series and was notably opposite in nature of almost every other character in the series when it came to the cold, serious demeanor. And while Paul mellowed out after Brandon flattened him, these aspects of his character didn't change... and he was better off for it, because it was nice and realistically subtle.
    Exactly! When Paul appeared people got excited, but there was a reason behind it. The character itself did not fall flat. This does not seem to be the case for Trip who is just "messy and boring and very unfortunate". I, like other fans, want to enjoy this League coming up. If the writers decide to focus on Trip and Ash's so called rivarly for the most part, then this may be the biggest mistake they make all saga. Why? Because how on earth can you focus on a rivalry in the biggest tournament Ash has been striving to win for over ten years when there isn't anything Trip has given us to credit him as a legitimate rival. Even if Ash beats him, it just won't feel as deserved as he beat Paul. Man, Trip really is a trip.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderfella View Post
    Wow, I actually was unaware of this. Thanks for clearing that up, but it just makes Trip's character so much more unbealivable. Like, WTF? Why can't the writers have any consistency.
    You didn't know? Tomioka took charge of the anime after Takeshi Shudo stepped down in mid/late Johto. Tomioka was the head writer for AG, DP and now Best Wishes. You can clearly tell Tomioka revamped the show for AG as an experiment, and then used what he learned from that series to write DP. Unfortunately BW feels like a step backwards.

    Exactly! When Paul appeared people got excited, but there was a reason behind it. The character itself did not fall flat. This does not seem to be the case for Trip who is just "messy and boring and very unfortunate". I, like other fans, want to enjoy this League coming up. If the writers decide to focus on Trip and Ash's so called rivarly for the most part, then this may be the biggest mistake they make all saga. Why? Because how on earth can you focus on a rivalry in the biggest tournament Ash has been striving to win for over ten years when there isn't anything Trip has given us to credit him as a legitimate rival. Even if Ash beats him, it just won't feel as deserved as he beat Paul. Man, Trip really is a trip.
    I just wish his personality was better. I don't mind a beginning rival THAT much, but Trip's personality is just a bland combination of Gary, Drew and Paul all into one.
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    You didn't know? Tomioka took charge of the anime after Takeshi Shudo stepped down in mid/late Johto. Tomioka was the head writer for AG, DP and now Best Wishes. You can clearly tell Tomioka revamped the show for AG as an experiment, and then used what he learned from that series to write DP. Unfortunately BW feels like a step backwards.
    I seriously didn't. Wow, thanks as well for clearing that up. I never really got too factual with the anime, I just watch the Japanese and the dub, have my favorites and not so favorite, you know the usual. But damn, no wonder why this show has been in a tail spin all these years. When you put it that way, BW does look like a step backwards, I mean I got nothing against the original series, because who doesn't love nostalgia? But since AG, the battles have been more up to par, same with consistency, same with character development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I just wish his personality was better. I don't mind a beginning rival THAT much, but Trip's personality is just a bland combination of Gary, Drew and Paul all into one.
    With Ash's whole "starting fresh" with the exception of Pikachu, new rivals are to be expected every now and then. To be quite honest, with or without Paul having a backstory of other regions, he still would have been good in my book. Trip on the other hand could use something that will give his character more "umph". I really want to like Trip, but I can't seem to care for him, and that's probably because he just doesn't seem to care himself.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    I like Trip compared to Gary. He was never around and he was always over the top ahead of Ash. I don't understand why Trip is recieving such dislike while Bianca appears all the time and has nothing of a rival to offer to Ash.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    I like Trip compared to Gary. He was never around and he was always over the top ahead of Ash. I don't understand why Trip is recieving such dislike while Bianca appears all the time and has nothing of a rival to offer to Ash.
    I think it's because there's little entertaining about Shooti as a character, since he shows little in terms of personality. Shigeru was a jerk, but he was also hilarious while being a jerk and Bel is adorable and hilarious also, both are characters in their own right. They made/make me laugh, but more than that, they made/make me care about them; they were/are memorable. Shooti really isn't hilarious, isn't really affecting Satoshi and the rivalry's going nowhere. He's more there to have someone for Satoshi to battle, but he's not interesting outside of battle.
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Because Bianca is a likable, entertaining character who has fun interactions with the rest of the cast. And besides that, she's obviously not the 'main' rival anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.
    In any case, it's not just about actually showing up, it's about making a good impression when they do so. Hence why people tend to favour Gary over Trip. Gary was essentially crap storyline wise, but was saved due to the fact that he was an interesting character to have around regardless.

    As for me? Long story short, I don't find Shooty even remotely interesting.
    His motivation for becoming stronger as a trainer is a no-brainer, considering beating the champ is what everyone who trains pokemon strives for anyway, and his rivalry with Ash is basically based on him not giving a damn and Ash constantly begging for a battle. Snore.
    This would all be forgivable if he were actually a good character to have around, but personality-wise, what is there to get excited about? He's aloof and thinks little of Ash, but there's not much else going on. There's never any mystery, conflict, excitement or even humour generated by him as a character. What exactly am I supposed to be anticipating when I hear he's going to show up in an upcoming episode?

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Trip has basically become the Zoey of the BW series. I don't see it changing. I just hope he gets to the finals so Ash beats him.

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