Do you find Trip/Shooti to be an interesting rival? - Page 13

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  1. #181
    king of hearts Squall Leonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith Droideka View Post
    So what if Trip wants to beat the champion? If I play BW, so do I, but does that add to my character? I think not. Not to mention that Trip beating Alder would be insulting to people like Ash and Paul, far more experienced and yet never able to beat even an Elite 4 member in battle.

    And what do you mean by Ash's rivals looking bad? Paul and Gary were rivals done right and semi-right, respectively. Trip is just plain not well done.
    Okay, that's completely different. This is the ANIME, and usually something like that is meant to add character. And being experienced has nothing to do with being good at battling. I mean, in the games it would, but I don't think that applies to the anime.

    I meant that since Ash who won against Paul and Gary, and lost against Trip, makes Gary and Paul look like they aren't as good a trainer as Trip. Thus, making them look bad as a trainer.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbertCressLover View Post
    I meant that since Ash who won against Paul and Gary, and lost against Trip, makes Gary and Paul look like they aren't as good a trainer as Trip.
    Or because the plot in BW likes to fuck over continuity, and ignore Ash's actual skill as a trainer. Yeah, that sounds about right.
    Last edited by Masurao; 27th October 2011 at 02:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zidane View Post
    Or the plot in BW likes to fuck over continuity, and ignore Ash's actual skill as a trainer. Yeah, that sounds about right.
    Yeah, it's like he just lost all of his skills and stuff as soon as he entered Unova. Plus, it's like none of the other stuff in past seasons exist anymore. I like the Black and White anime, but it has some flaws...

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbertCressLover View Post
    Well, maybe instead of blaming Trip, people should blame Ash. I mean, Ash is the one who stinks at battling, making all of his other rivals that he beat look bad. And Ash is the one who randomly decided that Trip would be his rival. And I think dreading Trip's appearance is a little drastic. Trip's episodes are my more favorite one's(well, I guess since I actually like Trip). But, I guess that's sort of irrelevant. Anyway, Trip has the whole Alder thing going for him. Was it to beat Alder someday or something? Well, anyway, my point is, he has some sort of goal which kind of adds to his character. Did Paul or Gary have something like that? My mind is going kind of blank at the moment, so I don't really remember, and that could be why I can't think of more things to say about Trip being a good character. But I'll put it here when I think of something.
    Like Sith Droideka has said, the blame in any case should be placed on the writers for making Ash a pathetic shadow of his former self just for the sake of having a rival that can school him and the younger viewers in the basics of Pokemon. I may not be part of the show's target audience anymore, but it is extremely grating from a personal viewpoint for me to have watched Ash develop as a character for over ten years to the point of reaching the top 4 of a regional championship; his trained Pokemon being in sync with his methods to the extent that they can wipe out Tobias' two legendary Pokemon whereas every other opponent of Tobias in the tournament failed to take out said trainer's first Pokemon alone. Many people have invested a lot of time into watching Ash's journey reach such heights only for the writers to give a middle-fingered salute to all of that progress.

    In my opinion, Trip is a poorly conceived character whose existence only serves to highlight the poor treatment given to Ash in this saga. In no way should a beginning trainer be written to have better knowledge and competence in Pokemon battles and training than Ash, who has so many honours to his name in this long-running series. Pikachu's loss to an untrained Snivy so soon after its tie with Tobias' Latios in the Sinnoh League would only ever be acceptable if the writers had proclaimed that Best Wishes was a complete reset and a reimagining of Ash Ketchum's Pokemon journey from the ground up. In reality, we have been given enough ties to previous sagas to know that this is the same Ash and Pikachu, just that they are being outclassed by a newbie. Despite his clear prejudices of those hailing from Kanto, Trip should still be in awe of Ash's standing instead of being painted as the dominant and more knowledgeable one in this 'rivalry'. There have been no revelations about Trip's character to prove that this kid should look down his nose at Ash with better battling expertise, and the persistent writing of him (and Iris, may I add) in this way is disenchanting me more from the anime with each appearance that he makes.

    I thought that the recent Alder episode would add some sort of interesting new dimension to Trip's character and his rivalry with Ash, but sadly my expectations were shot down in flames which seems to be a common trend with this saga. The writers chose instead to play the old Gary Oak 'one step ahead of you' card instead, which for me really shows what little regard Ash's pre-BW development is held with now. We are 50+ episodes into Best Wishes now and nothing suggests to me that Ash will some day pipe up and demand Trip's full respect, which is honestly very depressing.
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zidane View Post
    Or because the plot in BW likes to fuck over continuity, and ignore Ash's actual skill as a trainer. Yeah, that sounds about right.
    I couldn't agree more. However, I can't wait until he appears again. Maybe with a new Pokemon and to see how worse this topis gets.
    Last edited by Iteru; 27th October 2011 at 04:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Worst rival character ever. Hes so bland and uninteresting. There is no passion in the rivalry, in his character, nor any real goal to him at all. He wants to be the Champion? So does nearly every Pokemon trainer in existence so who the hell cares.

    He doesn't care about the rivalry with Ash and honestly neither do I. If you removed Trip from the B/W anime you honestly could hardly tell the difference, except that it might be better due to Ash not losing to some little arrogant newbie trainer.

    To be honest, Ash had a better dynamic in the one time that he battled with Drew where Drew schooled him on Contest battles than hes had in all the time that hes battled with Trip. Its that bad.

    This is who we needed as a step up or continuation from the likes of Gary Oak and Paul:



    I cannot stress the amount of depth that N would have brought to the B/W anime as a rival character. The themes that he touches on were some of the deepest in the series.

    What we got instead was a wannabe downgraded Gary Oak. I also dunno why they didn't just introduce Cheren, who is basically the same as Trip without all the blandness and arrogance and is overall much more interesting.

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    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    What we got instead was a wannabe downgraded Gary Oak. I also dunno why they didn't just introduce Cheren, who is basically the same as Trip without all the blandness and arrogance and is overall much more interesting.
    Yeah, I still don't know why they created an anime-only rival for Ash when they could have easily chosen Cheren or N instead. The Black and White games had more rivals than the other games, so having another anime-only rival makes me think that they thought that was why Paul worked so well when it was really their different dynamics, interactions and how they built up the rivalry throughout the whole series. I still would have loved to see N as Ash's rival. Cheren could have worked too if they wanted to save N for when Team Plasma appears.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Ash and Trip's rivalry doesn't interest me at all.

    It's bad enough that Ash has been regressed at all, but to see him being outclassed and lectured by a Gary Stu rookie trainer is downright insulting to longtime fans. I don't get it - Would it have really alienated newer viewers if Ash was skilled as he was during DP? One of my favourite parts about Pokemon is how it's easy to learn yet difficult to master, so I fail to see why he needs to relearn everything to teach them (sigh) the basics. After Paul in DP - who I couldn't wait to see more of - and with Burgundy and Georgia hanging around Unova, Trip feels like a typical boring and arrogant jerk with nothing else to his character. We already have to put up with enough tedious and unfunny barbed remarks from Iris. Why is he considered a more important rival to Ash than, say, Bianca or Stephan? If Trip sees Ash as beneath him and not worth his time, why should we care ourselves?

    I don't care why he hates Kanto and everything in it, and I don't care why he was much happier in the past when he met Alder. Frankly, I'm sick of TV characters who are unpleasant 99% of the time, but with just one act of kindness much later on, we're supposed to think: "See? He/she's not such a bad person after all!" I don't want to put up with this crap, I want a reason to enjoy the character now, but his photography just isn't enough to make me care. (What is the point to that anyway? Is he going to be starring in a new Pokemon Snap game, or is there going to be an Earthbound style ending to BW, with all his photos being shown at the epilogue?)

    I agree with El_ - when is N going to appear? He'd been the perfect replacement for Paul, being his total opposite and all. They could have introduced him during the Don Battle fiasco as a mysterious new character who won the whole thing. Sure, he most likely wouldn't enter Pokemon battle tournaments due to his beliefs, but I'm sure they could have cooked up a good reason. (Maybe the prize was a Pokemon egg, which he felt he needed to "rescue"?) Hey, a man can dream. Whether he appears or not, though, I fear they won't do him justice if Trip is anything to go by.
    Last edited by Bouffalant Herdier; 31st October 2011 at 07:39 PM.

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  9. #189
    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    I just love how Shooti said in the Adler episode, "The more you battle, the stronger you get." Going by anime logic, Ash should be wrecking the shit out of Shooti. But nah, apparently it makes sense that even though Shooti hasn't battled any where near, or seen as much as Ash...he's still somehow superior to him.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zidane View Post
    I just love how Shooti said in the Adler episode, "The more you battle, the stronger you get." Going by anime logic, Ash should be wrecking the shit out of Shooti. But nah, apparently it makes sense that even though Shooti hasn't battled any where near, or seen as much as Ash...he's still somehow superior to him.
    The whole point of that was to show the flaw of Shootie's logic though, so that argument doesn't quite work. Although everything is definitely valid, for sure. ~_~

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Mew View Post
    Yeah, I still don't know why they created an anime-only rival for Ash when they could have easily chosen Cheren or N instead. The Black and White games had more rivals than the other games, so having another anime-only rival makes me think that they thought that was why Paul worked so well when it was really their different dynamics, interactions and how they built up the rivalry throughout the whole series. I still would have loved to see N as Ash's rival. Cheren could have worked too if they wanted to save N for when Team Plasma appears.
    You are right. They probably was going to use N before the whole earth quake thing and I think they didn't choose Cheren because he was older than Ash. They like to make Ash's main rivals his age so maybe that's why. I rather Trip than a ten year old Cheren.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    The thing is, if the writers really cared that much about having Ash's main rivals match him in age, why not just make Cheren a 10 year-old and be done with it? All they'd have to do is make him shorter. They wouldn't have had to bother with the entire 5 minutes they spent making minor alterations to Paul's design to create Trip, saving them a whole 5 minutes of effort! Seriously. I think it's pretty clear with Team Plasma and N being nonexistent in the anime and Bianca differing from her game counterpart considerably (Cilan and Iris and lots of other game characters too, actually) that the writers are not that interested in adapting BW very faithfully, so at the rate they're going, altering Cheren's age would be nothing compared to what changes they've already made.

    So when you really think about it, there really is no logical reason for Trip to be in Cheren's place other than the writers being idiots, thinking they can replicate the success they had with Paul by making a parody of him and other past rivals done right instead of bringing Cheren into the series.

    I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I wonder why they didn't just give us Cheren. Not that I'm opposed to anime-original rivals, of course, but it's not like they're really doing anything with Trip that couldn't have been done just as easily with Cheren. That's another sign of how bad it is to be Trip: when your entire role can be considered interchangeable for completely different characters.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    The Cheren age thing is not at all a good argument because of Bianca's existence and she is basically the same age as Cheren. They could have simply passed him off as being 12 like she was if that were the issue.

    But I have an even better idea: Why not simply make Ash older? The idea of him still being 10 years old after all this time is stupid beyond reason anyways, and they even gave him a freaking birthday and he turned 11 earlier anyways many years ago. This whole nerf Ash mess has been ridiculous.

    Before I hear the "its for the kids" kids aren't that stupid, and it feels like the anime staff have insulted ALL of our intelligence, kids and older fans like myself alike.

    They should have made Ash older and made his rival N, it would have solved all the problems of this anime if it simply had that direction. But alas the anime team is lazy as hell.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    You are right. They probably was going to use N before the whole earth quake thing and I think they didn't choose Cheren because he was older than Ash. They like to make Ash's main rivals his age so maybe that's why. I rather Trip than a ten year old Cheren.
    Well, I wouldn't be surprised if N was going to appear in that Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma two parter, but considering that he hasn't appeared yet, I don't think he was going to interact with Ash that much. I seriously doubt that they didn't want to use Cheren due to his age. Like El_ mentioned, he and Bianca are about the same age and he really doesn't look that much older than Ash anyway. I never thought that they couldn't use characters, especially rivals or leads in the games, due to being too old when they could easily make alter their designs to make them look younger. As Shinneth mentioned, the writers have no problems with not covering the storyline from the games faithfully, although none of the other series were completely faithful to the video games' storylines, and they definitely don't mind altering Bianca's personality, so I don't see why they couldn't just use Cheren. He could have easily taken Trip's place, except hopefully not being a huge jerk to Ash for no reason and not as overpowered. If they had allowed Ash to beat Cheren once or twice, in maybe only a one-on-one match or a three-on-three match, then that could have made him become more obsessed with finding real power for his Pokemon, which I thought was the case after beating him a few times in the games, and show how that could affect him emotionally, psychologically and how he interacts with his Pokemon. Granted, I'm not sure if the writers would have done that with Cheren, especially since they don't usually let Ash win against his main rival until a league match, but that does sound pretty cool and definitely more interesting than what they're doing with Trip.

    I think that they ruined whatever potential Trip did have at the start by overpowering him. I'll admit that Pikachu really shouldn't have lost to an untrained Snivy and I can still see how that would bother people, but I was willing to let that slide at first to start off their rivalry in a different way. Trip having six Pokemon, two of which had already evolved, with pretty solid movesets that complemented their abilities, at least in Tranquil's and I believe Frillish's cases, and two badges within the first ten episodes of the series was really too much. It just makes him look too good and creaming through Ash's Pokemon, though mostly of them had little training, during their five-on-five match was really hard to believe. It honestly could have been interesting to see Ash's new rival to be a rookie trainer, especially if Ash defeated Trip once or twice and how that could affect his development as a new trainer, but I think that the writers just wanted to keep Ash in the underdog role of the rivalry where he's always struggling to surpass the rival until the league match, despite how that really doesn't make a lot of sense. I still think that if Trip's experience as a trainer was unclear, similar to how we didn't how experienced Paul was as a trainer for most of his early appearances, I probably wouldn't be too annoyed by his skill as a trainer. It probably wouldn't help the rivalry that much, if at all, but I could at least have an easier time buying the idea that he was that skilled if he had just said that he was a trainer from another region who had traveled around for a long time and like Ash, decided to travel around the Unova region.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    The thing is, if the writers really cared that much about having Ash's main rivals match him in age, why not just make Cheren a 10 year-old and be done with it? All they'd have to do is make him shorter. They wouldn't have had to bother with the entire 5 minutes they spent making minor alterations to Paul's design to create Trip, saving them a whole 5 minutes of effort! Seriously. I think it's pretty clear with Team Plasma and N being nonexistent in the anime and Bianca differing from her game counterpart considerably (Cilan and Iris and lots of other game characters too, actually) that the writers are not that interested in adapting BW very faithfully, so at the rate they're going, altering Cheren's age would be nothing compared to what changes they've already made.

    So when you really think about it, there really is no logical reason for Trip to be in Cheren's place other than the writers being idiots, thinking they can replicate the success they had with Paul by making a parody of him and other past rivals done right instead of bringing Cheren into the series.

    I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I wonder why they didn't just give us Cheren. Not that I'm opposed to anime-original rivals, of course, but it's not like they're really doing anything with Trip that couldn't have been done just as easily with Cheren. That's another sign of how bad it is to be Trip: when your entire role can be considered interchangeable for completely different characters.
    Since we all saw how old Cheren was from the game, they probably didn't want to make him a ten year old shrimp. Ask yourself this, would you really have the writers make him or Bianca his Age? I would rather a stranger than a game character to change. The writers aren't going to make Ash grow, so might as well use someone no one knows. Plus, Bianca isn't acting very much like a more serious rival. If they wanted, they could have made Bianca his main rival but it doesn't seem to be cutting it for a rivalry just as much as Trip is.

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