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Thread: Do you find Trip/Shooti to be an interesting rival?

  1. #166
    king of hearts Squall Leonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Wow, I didn't know Trip had so many haters. I think people just need to wait for Trip to get more development in his character. I think he's already good enough as he is... But, it sounds to me like many of you just want another Paul back.

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    Registered User Cinderfella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbertCressLover View Post
    Wow, I didn't know Trip had so many haters. I think people just need to wait for Trip to get more development in his character. I think he's already good enough as he is... But, it sounds to me like many of you just want another Paul back.
    Trust me we're not haters. We just recognize bullshit when we see it, and Trip's whole character is full of it. It's not necessarily that I want a watered-down version of Paul(which is exactly what the writers have ATTEMPTED to do, but failed epicly anyways) of a rival, but I would like a rival who brought dynamic to the show, something fresh. That's why Harley and Paul are loved so much, because love em or hate em, we had NEVER gotten characters like them before.

    I would like for Ash to have a rival who adds something to the show rather than DEM and lack of interest from the fanbase. I actually think Ash should get a rival who potentially sets him up, or he appears to be a friend, but ends up being a foe. Or someone who likes Ash initially, but becomes jealous of him, doing his best to defeat him at all costs. Something of that sort.

    Trip just doesn't care. While it may not have seem like Paul also didn't, there are numerous occasions showing that he did, and Infernape tied Ash and Paul together like a tightrope.

    It's not impossible, and the writers really need to get their act together, because I'm starting to wish for Burgundy and Langley to actually take Trip's place. He truly is that boring, and as redundant as Langley and Burgundy losing to Ash may be, at least their interesting. No one likes boring characters, because who would want to watch a storyline if it's boring?

    But being that Trip doesn't care, Ash doesn't either, and his whole team right now as a unit is shitastic, I am not looking forward to this League at all. If BW continues the way it does, I'm hoping we get some Barry vs Paul or Nando vs Zoey type battles in there, yes, they would not be about Ash, but they should at least be interesting. I'm telling you, a League with Bianca, Langley, and Burgundy would be worth watching, compared to this lame ass photographer super trainer bull shit of a rival Trip.

  3. #168
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    On top of that everyone always wanted to see Ash beat Gary and Paul in the leagues. The rivalries made you care about Ash finally catching up and beating his rivals. Who didn't feel satisfied when Ash finally beat Gary in the Johto league, or Paul in the Sinnoh league?

    This time when we get up to Ash Vs. Trip in the Unova league, it'll be a, "Eh, who cares?" kind of vibe to it. We want Ash to beat him, but its almost as if the whole rivalry means nothing.

    Hell, even Tyson from the Hoenn league would have made a better recurring rival than Trip.
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbertCressLover View Post
    But, it sounds to me like many of you just want another Paul back.
    I wanted the opposite, actually. Something so unlike Paul that no one would be inclined to compare the two. Instead, we literally got a color-reversed palette swap Paul Lite with mixes of Kanto-era Gary and Drew in his personality, which tends to be a bit on the inconsistent side from appearance to appearance. It's been a goddamn year and most of Trip's appearances to this point have been utterly squandered where they could've done something great with him. So I don't think this is a case of impatience. I think it's a case of the writers not knowing what the hell to do with him. This is a pretty nasty case of incompetence on the writers' part since he's supposedly the main rival. When secondary and tertiary rivals look fucking amazing by comparison, then I would call that a problem.

    And full justification to bitch about it, too.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Okay, I'll admit, compared to Paul, Trip is worse as a RIVAL, but as a character I don't see anything wrong with him.
    And, well, yeah, Trip doesn't seem to care about battling Ash, but maybe that's the point?
    I dunno, I think the writers at this point were so used to Paul, that they kind of mixed Trip with him.
    And yeah, I think the writers don't know what to do with him too.

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    I wouldn't be so adamant about it if he weren't supposedly the MAIN rival... and is by FAR the least entertaining. Come on, when you've got a great peripheral cast of rivals - Langley, Cabernet, and Bel are the pinnacle examples of fresh and dynamic... Then you've got Kenyan and Luke who aren't half-bad either. They've got enough quirks and interact with the trio well enough for me to be entertained... But I expect more than a few hissy fits and unjustified, unwarranted stu-ishness from the one who is supposedly the MAIN rival. The one who, y'know, is supposed to be the protagonist's primary motivation? The one that drives the story ahead? Say what you will about Shigeru and Satoshi, but at least Shigeru did THAT much, and need I really cover Satoshi and Shinji when it's been praised and lauded for its development enough?

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth View Post
    I wanted the opposite, actually. Something so unlike Paul that no one would be inclined to compare the two. Instead, we literally got a color-reversed palette swap Paul Lite with mixes of Kanto-era Gary and Drew in his personality, which tends to be a bit on the inconsistent side from appearance to appearance. It's been a goddamn year and most of Trip's appearances to this point have been utterly squandered where they could've done something great with him. So I don't think this is a case of impatience. I think it's a case of the writers not knowing what the hell to do with him. This is a pretty nasty case of incompetence on the writers' part since he's supposedly the main rival. When secondary and tertiary rivals look fucking amazing by comparison, then I would call that a problem.

    And full justification to bitch about it, too.
    Exactly. It's not like they're even trying. The writing for this "rivalry" is just horrid, they haven't explained a damn thing about why Trip is so good it's just "because we say so", which is simply shitty writing. There's no story behind it, nothing to care about. When Ash beats him it'll be like "Who cares?".
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbertCressLover View Post
    Okay, I'll admit, compared to Paul, Trip is worse as a RIVAL, but as a character I don't see anything wrong with him.
    And, well, yeah, Trip doesn't seem to care about battling Ash, but maybe that's the point?
    As a character? He HAS no character, to be honest. Trip just seems to do whatever the situation calls for. Even if him not caring about battling Ash WAS the point, it wouldn't change the fact that it is a terrible trait for a rival. If he doesn't care about battling Ash, then why should WE care about watching him them battle?

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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    His character is "eh." Just "eh."

    I mean, almost all of the main rivals up until Trip had things you could remember them for. Gary had his arrogance and one-step-ahead, Drew had his roses, Harley had his... flamboyancy, and I'm sure we know what Paul and Barry were known for. Although Dawn's rivals were pretty bland. Anyway, this as all up until Trip, and then... cameras? Cameras but never having anything else? Just because Gary had a stupid gimmick, or Drew, doesn't mean that they were handled poorly. And yet, Trip is, and all he's become is "eh". If he weren't really based on Paul, then I doubt I would compare the two, since Paul is leagues better than him, in rivalness and in personality.
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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith Droideka View Post
    His character is "eh." Just "eh."

    I mean, almost all of the main rivals up until Trip had things you could remember them for. Gary had his arrogance and one-step-ahead, Drew had his roses, Harley had his... flamboyancy, and I'm sure we know what Paul and Barry were known for. Although Dawn's rivals were pretty bland.
    Even if Dawn's rivals were bland, they were still far more distinguishable than Trip.

    Zoey had the tomboyish design and got pissed at people who did Gyms/Contests. Nando had a unique design of a bard and knew a bit about Sinnoh's history. Kenny...well he was very bland, but he did have the childhood friend thing going for him at least.

    God, when Trip makes Dawn's rivals look good, you KNOW that he's a bad character.

  11. #176
    Registered User Blue1225's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbertCressLover View Post
    Wow, I didn't know Trip had so many haters. I think people just need to wait for Trip to get more development in his character. I think he's already good enough as he is... But, it sounds to me like many of you just want another Paul back.
    You really couldn't be farther from the truth. It has nothing to do with wanting another Paul and the writers have had plenty of time to develop his character. I've said it before, he adds nothing to the show except being a main rival for Ash. The writers wanted to create a little fusion of Paul and Cheren instead of thinking of someone original and its blown up in their faces. Keep in mind that these are the exact same writers from DP, so its not as if they don't have any experience with creating new rivals.

    Trip truly does not care about Ash or their so called rivalry. Gary clearly cared as he was always making sure Ash knew he was ahead of him. Paul may have seemed to not care at times, but it was always clear that Ash got under his skin and was able to affect him. Trip looks down on Ash as if he's inferior to him and he doesn't take Ash seriously at all. In my opinion, he see's Ash in the same way Iris does. As an annoying kid who only serves to get in the way. The mere fact that Ash is being portrayed as inferior to some random rookie is insulting.

    The Ash/Trip rivalry is one that fails at grabbing an audience's attention. Because the character is uninteresting it affects the rivalry itself. Gary and Paul were both charismatic and dynamic. They Made you care about them and what they were doing. You wanted to see more of them. You didn't dread their next appearance.

    When Gary lost his battle in the Indigo League and drove away, you were shocked and wondered what would become of him. When he appeared again after the Orange League and defeated Ash you were impressed with how far he'd come and his new found maturity. When he and Ash finally had their destined battle at the Silver Conference you held your breath to see the outcome and while you cheered for Ash when he won, you tipped your head in respect to Gary and his character growth.

    When Paul abandoned Chimchar you were disgusted at his coldness. When you learned of his previous travels you gained respect for his skills. When you discovered his past you gained an empathetic bond with him. When he defeated Ash in their first full battle we were impressed with his abilities and marveled at his strategy. When he finally acknowledged Ash you were able to feel happy that he'd learned to respect his rival. When he faced Ash for the final time you sat on the edge of your seat the entire time and you were satisfied with the outcome, because you were able to see how far both characters had come and the effect they'd had on eachother.

    My point is that there was buildup to the rivalry, individual development of the characters (They each grew due to knowing the other) and there was a satisfying conclusion to it all. Each of these things was key and dragged you into the rivalry and made you care about what the characters themselves were doing and going through. There were times when I know I wondered what Gary was up to and how Paul was doing with his training. With Trip, I honestly couldn't care less and that's a serious problem.

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  12. #177
    king of hearts Squall Leonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Well, maybe instead of blaming Trip, people should blame Ash. I mean, Ash is the one who stinks at battling, making all of his other rivals that he beat look bad. And Ash is the one who randomly decided that Trip would be his rival. And I think dreading Trip's appearance is a little drastic. Trip's episodes are my more favorite one's(well, I guess since I actually like Trip). But, I guess that's sort of irrelevant. Anyway, Trip has the whole Alder thing going for him. Was it to beat Alder someday or something? Well, anyway, my point is, he has some sort of goal which kind of adds to his character. Did Paul or Gary have something like that? My mind is going kind of blank at the moment, so I don't really remember, and that could be why I can't think of more things to say about Trip being a good character. But I'll put it here when I think of something.
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    So what if Trip wants to beat the champion? If I play BW, so do I, but does that add to my character? I think not. Not to mention that Trip beating Alder would be insulting to people like Ash and Paul, far more experienced and yet never able to beat even an Elite 4 member in battle.

    But blaming Ash, who, ignoring the OI, had received 32 gym badges, taken part in four leagues, and beaten the Kanto Battle Frontier when he first battled Trip, for losing to Trip, or only tying, is completely illogical. Ash should be beating Trip into the ground in his first battle, and he didn't, but not because of any failing on Ash's part- only the writers screwing up and forgetting about Pikachu's non-electric moves.

    And what do you mean by Ash's rivals looking bad? Paul and Gary were rivals done right and semi-right, respectively. Trip is just plain not well done.
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    Well, maybe instead of blaming Trip, people should blame Ash. I mean, Ash is the one who stinks at battling
    I don't think Ash being downgraded to the competency of a soap dish is any excuse for the writers to skip giving the rival proper characterization. That's like trying to defend the crap writing of the "2012" movie by saying it's John Cusack's fault for being bland and unappealing.

    Trip has the whole Alder thing going for him. Was it to beat Alder someday or something?
    Yeah... but that plot point seems to have been kicked in the head in Adler's debut episode. Trip went off on his way before he could dare to develop an emotion other then generic scowl.

    Well, anyway, my point is, he has some sort of goal which kind of adds to his character. Did Paul or Gary have something like that?
    Paul had the goal of beating his estranged fath- Pyramid King Brandon for his final symbol, and then he wanted to beat his brother in a fight because he feels his brother is a failure for giving up after losing to Brandon. While I don't think his character was handled that well, especially near the end, at least he had something motivational.

    Gary had this whole thing where he was an arrogant prick that tried way too hard to show off, got his butt handed to him in the league, then spent the time Ash was traveling at the Orange Islands learning to be a more skilled trainer and researched for months in the self-help book, "Genericness Equals Maturity" written by Richie, plus he had the whole fact that he was a rival of Ash's since they were little... ...more so little.

    At this point, all Trip has left going for him as a character is his bizarrely racist attitude towards Kanto people. Why exactly he hates them I have no idea, but don't count on it being anything deep or interesting. I like to imagine it's because he was making out with a Kanto girl until he realized "she" was a crossdresser, and now wants revenge on any Kanto guy who's ever crossdressed. Sadly this one trait does not make him a compelling character, his bland, boring personality reeks of a poor-man's Paul. His skills as a trainer are so ridiculously good for a guy of his experience that he borderlines on Marty-Stu levels, for no good reason other then to shove the "underdog rivalry" down our throats.
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    Easy listening Masurao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you find Shooty to be an interesting rival?

    I have to wonder, I mean would it be so hard to have Ash actually be ahead of his rival for once? But, no...we can't have Ash actually bring out his reserves, and crush Trip early on...thereby taking a different approach to a rivalry. That apparently would be bad story-telling. Instead, we choose to have Ash being schooled by a noob...since that apparently makes sense. Ash who has beaten legendaries, and accomplished more than anyone his age..must be written to be inferior to a rookie trainer just starting out.

    If Trip had been written to have taveled multiple regions, and gone through various leagues like Paul..then hey it would have made SENSE. Paul had just as much experience as Ash did. He participated in the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn leagues prior to meeting Ash. It made sense that he could be superior to Ash. But yes, apparently completely disregarding Ash's skills as a trainer, and shitting on continuity is what BW is all about. *rolls eyes*
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