Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40
Like Tree89Likes

Thread: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

  1. #1
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The Danger Room
    Posts
    7,083
    Blog Entries
    43

    Default Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    This is the thread for more in-depth discussion about Cabernet's personality, relationship with Dent, storyline, etc.

    Personally, I love Cabernet as a rival. She is two cups of crazy mixed with one cup of adorable and one cup of woobie that's blended into a zesty rival with a refreshing taste. Ok, I'll cut the cooking references. She's Best Wishes' Harley or Urara, that really weirdly rival that's angry at one of the main characters and has made it their life's goal to beat them, being supremely entertaining doing so, though she distances herself from the first two because she has a legitimate reason to be angry at Dent since his arrogance and attitude made her give up on her dreams to be a trainer. She's highly entertaining as a character.

    As a rival, I actually really like the dynamic between her and Dent. I don't really mind that she's not that good at sommeliering, because I kinda feel that that's the point. She's trying to become a sommelier solely to get back at Dent and it's holding her back, because in her mind being a sommelier is about trashing the relationship between Pokémon and trainer, which she does to Satoshi upon meeting him. It's fun to see that she seems to learn from Dent that there's more to sommeliering than that and that it's actually about strenghtening the bonds between human and pokémon. I could see her character ending one of two ways, either she'll become a better sommelier thanks to Dent or, and I think this is more likely, she'll turn her back on sommeliering because she'll forgive Dent, and we'll see her in the League.

  2. #2
    Prince of Renais FinalArcadia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Preparing for battle
    Posts
    2,744
    Blog Entries
    51

    Follow FinalArcadia on Tumblr Visit FinalArcadia's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    I like Burgundy as a character, and I think that she is an infinitely more interesting rival than, say, Trip, but I don't know how much I like her role as a rival. To me, a rival should be a legitimate threat, and Burgundy just doesn't seem focused enough to cause trouble for Cilan in battle. And I don't see her ever getting to a point where that would be the case (and this is also my problem with Bianca).

    Burgundy and Cilan do have very entertaining interactions together, though. They're suitably over-the-top enough for each other, and any episode featuring the two of them is definitely a standout for Best Wishes.

  3. #3
    Mr. F's Bulbawife Hitomi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    930
    Blog Entries
    16

    Follow Hitomi on Tumblr

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    In the sense of the word "rival," Cabernet isn't much of one to Dento. As a relatively new trainer, she got the crap beat out of her twice by Dento in Pokémon battles, and when it comes to Sommeliering, she's always one step behind him. He hasn't seemed to learn much from her, instead assuming the mentor role (whether she likes it or not).

    However, I think if we look at her point of view, Dento is a good rival for her. She tries hard and her purpose in life is finally beating him. She studied to become a Sommelier (which, as Dento said, is a tough task even to be a C-class one). I have a feeling next time they battle, she'll actually make him work up a sweat; even her Sommeliering skills have improved since she first started, and that's because I think she's learned from him, even if she adamantly insists that he's an arrogant, self-righteous, egotistical... er... dork. (Which is all true, so I don't see why Cabernet's haters don't like her saying so.) In my opinion, that's what a rival is supposed to do - make you learn about what you're doing wrong so you can improve on it. This is the case; that's why I think he's a good rival for her.

    They play off each other so well. Because Cabernet has shown signs of improvement from appearance #1 to #2, I have no doubt that before too long she'll give Dento a run for his money. I want to see her win at least once to give him something to think on for a change.

  4. #4
    mientes Aestivate's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    4,059
    Blog Entries
    1

    Follow Aestivate on Tumblr Visit Aestivate's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Cabernet is so full of crazy and the dynamic between her and Dent is a lovely, lovely one. He's the unknown rival to her but he turns into such a dodgy nice guy when it comes to her that sommeliershipping is the only straight Dent ship you will ever find me supporting he's so supportive of her doing well and it confuses the fuck out of her which is just endearing and wonderful and adorable to see. She is probably my favorite of the girl rivals personality-wise. I would love to see more and more of her with Langley. :3

  5. #5
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,787

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Hehe. I remember when she first showed up and everyone had hated her and now they say she's more interesting than Trip. however, she has shown up less than him combined. I hope she is not traded off as a clone of Ursula. Because she was a good rival too but she was only showed a few times and felt she needed more time. Especially since Cilan is very passionate about his goal.

  6. #6
    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    Lake Wobegon
    Posts
    4,559
    Blog Entries
    9
    Follow garrison-san On Twitter
    Follow garrison-san on Tumblr

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Cabernet/Burgundy is easily my favourite character of Best Wishes, and of the series as a whole (tied only with Conway). She's a psychotic underdog determined to prevail against the odds - which is totally adorable - and I think her spunk and determination in the face of adversity as formidable and insidious as Dento is something to truly be admired. Plus she has killer chemistry with just about anyone she interacts with. I love her, I sympathise with her, and I hope to see her kick some serious A-Class Sommelier butt within the near future.^^

  7. #7
    Registered User VTP-Dawkins93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    South-East England
    Posts
    92
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    I am pretty much in agreement with everyone else. Carbernet is a likeable character who I actually want to see beat Cilan at least some point during the series. She's an interesting rival because she's the plucky underdog that we can see improving and not that superior trainer that the main character constantly has to catch up with. Rivals like that don't appear often enough on the show and it's a refreshing change.

  8. #8
    Subete wo kagayakasu MizuTaipu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Purgatory
    Posts
    1,261
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Cabernet's my favorite out of all of the Best Wishes rivals. Now that Musashi's taken a serious role, Cabernet fills in her tsundere role wonderfully in Best Wishes. I love how paranoid she is toward everything like during her "tasting" of Satoshi's Pokémon, she goes crazy at the slightest thing. I also like how she just focuses her attention on Dent 24/7 and ignores everyone else around her. So yes, she's an interesting rival.

  9. #9
    cheese! Insanish Danish's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    9,688
    Blog Entries
    145

    Follow Insanish Danish on Tumblr

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Oh, I adore her. She's probably my favorite Best Wishes rival, and her interactions with not only Cilan but pretty much everyone else are just fantastic. I just love how insane she is, and it's adorable how pissed off she gets when things don't go her way. I think she has one of the greatest personalities any character on this show has ever had, and I'm just sad we didn't get to have someone like her on the show sooner. I love her and I hope we get to see way more of her before Best Wishes ends.
    Iteru, Aestivate, Hellion and 7 others like this.
    back to being a non-edible pastry

  10. #10
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Croatia.
    Posts
    2,686
    Blog Entries
    21

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    If there is one thing i like about Cabernet(or Burgundy)is that her rivalry with Cilan has purpose, some actual maning put into it. Her motives behind becoming Connoisseur were of wrong nature, wanting to revenge Cilan and beat him at his own game. He was apparently responsible for Cabernet quitting to pursue career as trainer causing revolt and anger in her character. What i like about this is that she isnt one of those rivals which are usually superior to main protagonists having to catch up with them. Cabernet is opposite having to prove herself to others and Cilan falling behind, realizing how she is still far from his level which affects greatly her self esteem,and beauty in it is that character can learn and develop from this rivalry becoming better as person and realize what path is right one for her to follow. Her sweet and insecure side mixed with flaming attitude is endearing and vertiginous complimenting Cilan personality well,and whether its battle or connoisseur showdown commenting other pokemon and relationship with trainer,its fun to watch them compete against each other with their rivalry having tension,charm and grace of Swans.

    Cabernet is what i call rival being done right with writers using different approach, compared to get go overused and cliched route of main character having to catch up with his opponent. She has stamina and certain doze of appeal and i could see her staying past Unova ,in case Cilan gets kept as main character for one more region.

  11. #11
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unova
    Posts
    4,508
    Blog Entries
    185

    Follow Bubble Frog on Tumblr

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Cabernet's alright/decent. Her character execution and writing has something more to be desired though. She's ok, and obviously she loves her Pokemon since when Murando was knocked out by Gamagaru she went over and comforted it. But, I feel like the writers are flanderizing(is this even a word?) her a bit to much, and really made her too much of "Dento's Toy". What I mean is, through a lot of her appearances she's been portrayed as this bitch who's basically there to do nothing but complain and wine(Pun not intended) about Dento. When Tsutarja ate Dento's food, when Dento battled Luke, When Dento was entering the tourney, and she was so obsessed with Dento everything. She wants nothing but her precious revenge against Dento, but then after that "what is there?" what can they do? She's pretty much done and that's a pretty one-note role in my opinion. She's just basically this girl in the clique who truly seems to have nothing to do but, stalk Dento and bitch about him all the time. Even her catch phrase is a carbon copy of Dento's with, s'il vous plait and Bonjour tacked on. And, her first appearance was just pretty bland overall to me. It was so cheap to me how Ishizumai took out Futachimaru, given it never even battled under Dento's ownership until then and Futachimaru is the same Mijumaru that lost to Yanappu and Cabernet supposedly trained that Mijumaru and evolved it into a Futachimaru. I don't agree on Yanappu's win over Mebujika given the typing and low amount of attacks on an evolved Pokemon. But, I can let it slide given Yanappu is strong. Of course Dento tasted her Mijumaru before and you would think the writers would let Futachimaru get a little poetic justice since it evolved and trained and had a type advantage but, close but no cigar tired from simply using Fury Cutter a few times and Shell Blade evening out with X-Scissor. I find her personality to be annoying at times and a bit vain and overdone. Truly a rocky execution in my opinion, and I hope the writers can fix a few of these things in the future.

  12. #12
    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Kentucky. The boonies.
    Posts
    1,224
    Blog Entries
    29

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Without a doubt, Burgundy is among the best of BW's rivals and a very nice foil for Cilan. I really hope she appears more often before the series ends. As a character, she's fantastic, as her tendencies to hold grudges and pretending to know what she's doing make her a very entertaining character. And honestly, in retrospect, I pretty much agree with what she said in her debut. Snivy and Scraggy aside, Ash's Unova team is absolutely suck-tastic and should all be replaced. Isn't it sad when the writers fuck up Ash's team so badly that the adversary who says such a harsh thing actually has a valid point? :P The Don Battle, for all its problems, at least showed that it wasn't just Cilan and Ash that Burgundy could bounce off well. Really, aside from her unfortunate early defeat (the saga really went downhill in terms of match-ups as time progressed), Burgundy's one of the few characters who didn't get fucked over in some manner due to that craptastic arc.

    As a rival, Cilan's rival, admittedly I was at first a little miffed that Burgundy's threat factor was virtually nothing (since it seems all the GOOD rivals this series are no threat at all while the blandest, most boring and uncompelling rivals are the real threats), but I hadn't thought of the reversal of the typical protagonist-struggling-to-match-the-rival scenario, which is actually rather clever. It's true that Burgundy has a distorted perspective of what it means to be a sommelier and that her vendetta against Cilan is what's holding her back. Signs of change in their relationship were already apparent by the end of the Don Battle, which is a good sign, and I hope that means Burgundy will return much improved in terms of her performance. Otherwise, I really couldn't ask for more in an entertaining and likable rival that's perfectly suited towards the kind of character that Cilan is. We know he's got a slew of canon fangirls, so a female rival who bitterly hates his guts seems totally appropriate and has made for the most entertaining banter the show's had so far.

    Plus, Ash having to be on the receiving end of her brash negativity was a priceless sight to behold... and again, not so off-the-mark as it once seemed. At least for us beyond the fourth wall!

    Chapter 19: Black Ice Battle!
    plurk | SPPF | dA | ff.net

  13. #13
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The Danger Room
    Posts
    7,083
    Blog Entries
    43

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    As suspected Futachimaru and Doryuuzu are going claw to claw. Still a tad effy on the idea of Cabernet and Iris battling. Makes no sense. Doryuuzu and Iris have a great relationship, and have been together since child hood. Cabernet is known for her broken Sommelier skills, so it would be a bit counter-development productive if she diagnosed their relationship as crap and when on to beat them. Plus again Futachimaru was beaten by Dento's newly caught hermit crap so the power-up does seem a tad forced. I can't really see how the writers are gonna do things.
    Responding here, because this is more about my take on Cabernet's character as a whole and her rivalry with Dent. I disagree somewhat. In my opinion, I think that Cabernet's broken skills as a sommelier are actually totally intentional on the writers' part, and it's interesting that for a character who's supposedly not about battling, all of Cabernet's appearances had some heavy battling related to them. Her last episode was about her gaining respect for Dent's skills as a sommelier, and they left promising to polish their skills. To me, it's obvious that Cabernet will have trained both as a battler and as a sommelier during that time. I wonder if this tournament could be where she shifts from the latter to the former. I'm really interested to see what Dent would say if he tastes Futachimaru, a Pokémon he twice defeated. I think that it could be a good opportunity for Dent to recognize Cabernet's skills as a battler and praise her for the progress done with her training (since it's obvious she still trains and battles with her Pokémon). In turn, it could be interesting to see Cabernet realize that there was truth in his initial assessment of her, since she now respects his skills as a sommelier, which could prompt her to realize how far she came, and chose to pursue battling instead of or in addition to sommeliering, setting up Cabernet in the League.

  14. #14
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unova
    Posts
    4,508
    Blog Entries
    185

    Follow Bubble Frog on Tumblr

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    Responding here, because this is more about my take on Cabernet's character as a whole and her rivalry with Dent. I disagree somewhat. In my opinion, I think that Cabernet's broken skills as a sommelier are actually totally intentional on the writers' part, and it's interesting that for a character who's supposedly not about battling, all of Cabernet's appearances had some heavy battling related to them.
    I realize her crap Sommelier skills are intentional.

    To me, it's obvious that Cabernet will have trained both as a battler and as a sommelier during that time. I wonder if this tournament could be where she shifts from the latter to the former. I'm really interested to see what Dent would say if he tastes Futachimaru, a Pokémon he twice defeated. I think that it could be a good opportunity for Dent to recognize Cabernet's skills as a battler and praise her for the progress done with her training (since it's obvious she still trains and battles with her Pokémon).
    I don't think it's "obvious" she's trained she might have not trained at all for all we know. And Dento beating Futachimaru twice and having him taste it in it's battle against Doryuuzu seems a tad weird imo, especially when it's not battling Dento's Pokemon and has no real dynamic against Iris and her Doryuuzu.

    In turn, it could be interesting to see Cabernet realize that there was truth in his initial assessment of her, since she now respects his skills as a sommelier, which could prompt her to realize how far she came, and chose to pursue battling instead of or in addition to sommeliering, setting up Cabernet in the League.
    I don't really see her going to the league at all. It just would seem entirely forced if she so happened to show up at the league being all "Haha, I collected 8 badges without you knowing." Especially when she's more of Dento's rivalry when Satoshi's. Unless the writers are going to pull a Kengo and have her beat Dento after Satoshi beats her at the league and that being her farewell or something.

  15. #15
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,787

    Default Re: Do you find Burgundy/Cabernet to be an interesting rival?

    Burgundy is a very interesting rival but I wish her interactions and her training was more with Cilan since she and him have similar goals.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •