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  1. #106
    SOVA Representative Bluelatios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Sorry, it was a tiny typo. I removed the "i". However, the "American" Ash has character issues too, so the dub producers are also to blame to an extent.
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    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132 View Post
    No but revamp of games with writers going in correlation with them along with two experienced companions joining him on journey are two extra factors which are complicating situation.

    Since neither Cilan or Iris are greenhorns needing someone to teach them and learn from it,Ash cant be put in mentors role anymore to emphasize on character maturity being portrayed as less knowledgeable than they are and considering how BW games are carrying out vibe of "fresh start"with continuity and connections to past travels being cut to minimum doesnt provide credibility and background behind knowledge and experience Ash had before to carry it on to Unova being easier for writers to just tone him down to have new generations of kids easier time when following journey.

    We may not agree with writer decisions,but this are most likely biggest reasons behind Ash being toned down: being different surrounding and characters among he was placed and drastic change of formula in games.
    Sad but true.
    Hoenn was about almost as big a reboot as BW and they didn't regress his character, so there was no point doing so here. Since you want to reference the games then the writers should have made it truly like the games where Cilian is a greenhorn and Iris being a young Gym Leader has alot to learn. Ash's character shouldn't have to suffer for others, thats just poor writing. If they cared about making Ash more "easier to follow" for a new generation of kids then they would/could have done so anytime in the last 15 years, so why now? Sinnoh had so many references to the past and that was just the last saga.

    Leaving everything behind and starting off with Pikachu was always enough, but Ash at the least kept his character, skills, and knowledge intact. I'm calling this one for what it truly is, "a half assed reboot" and nothing more. There was no reason at all to regress his character, none.

  3. #108
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post

    Hoenn was about almost as big a reboot as BW and they didn't regress his character, so there was no point doing so here. Since you want to reference the games then the writers should have made it truly like the games where Cilian is a greenhorn and Iris being a young Gym Leader has alot to learn. Ash's character shouldn't have to suffer for others, thats just poor writing. If they cared about making Ash more "easier to follow" for a new generation of kids then they would/could have done so anytime in the last 15 years, so why now? Sinnoh had so many references to the past and that was just the last saga.

    Leaving everything behind and starting off with Pikachu was always enough, but Ash at the least kept his character, skills, and knowledge intact. I'm calling this one for what it truly is, "a half assed reboot" and nothing more. There was no reason at all to regress his character, none.
    Uh no, Hoenn cant be compared in any way to changes writers did with BW series. In Hoenn only big change was that Misty was replaced with Ash starting out only with Pikachu. Majority of older cast was kept, there were ton of reverences to past with previous main characters making appearances , older pokemon being brought back with anime actually being treated as continuity.

    As opposite to BW which got rid of long stay character Brock, revamped JJM changing their roles, got rid of most references to previous characters and past, portraying Unova as far and isolated region, excluded contests out along with going back to formula of one main star and two sidekicks. Hoenn can hardly be compared to BW at all.

    Yes in ideal world Ash shouldnt have been regressed, but people often forget how primary purpose of pokemon series is to serve as marketing tool for promotion of new games, with writers deciding to mirror changes which happened in BW games, with anime as much as possible. Over the years anime started to stick more and more with games, starting to lose its own individuality being treated as more of separate media back in past. So in reality im not surprised by what happened because given in what direction writers started taking it, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

    Also i believe im not the only on who says how complaints about Ash regressing back to Kanto idiot is huge exaggeration with things being blow out of proportion. Maybe its just me, but by watching Unova Ash showed to have more of maturity and knowledge than he did in Original series. He is less impulsive and naive, use more strategy and innovative tactics which was specific for character in Ag and DP when trying out new combinations using field to his advantage. This can be noticed when he battled Elesa, Skyla using rings to his advantage or Burgh.
    He also doesnt react so abruptly to Iris teasing and provocations , being more calm and mature compared to Kanto/Johto days.

    Yes its obvious Ash is toned down compared to DP, but he wasnt regressed back to start persay with inclusion of two experienced trainers unfortunately damaging his credibility as trainer making him look more inexperienced than he in reality is. So far at least one trainer in cast through regions Ash traveled through started out as rookie who could learn something from Ash complimenting his maturity and knowledge, but in BW since Iris and Cilan are already competent ad knowledgeable puts Ash in undesirable position.

    Yes you could argue how Misty and Brock werent beginners either, but back than Ash was rookie just starting out so it was understandable that he would be portrayed as ignorant which learns from other two. So why is Ash portrayed in light of less experienced trainer when being in companion of trainers which arent beginners again? Most logical answer is revamp which happened in games, with writers wanting to emphasize better on fact of Ash being foreigner in region which doesnt have many trainers and pokemon outside of it. This is one of reasons why people are excited when seeing Pikachu or pokemon which are coming outside of it, since they are so rare in Unova.

    Fact that continuity is kept to minimum with Ash past, achievements he made and previous traveling companions being basically non existent not being referenced at all, doesnt help Ash either not having background and reliability which would emphasize on his maturity and experience he accumulated in ex sagas.

    Yes, its poor reason to tone down character but in reality thats probably main motivation behind writers decision.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    I did think in the beginning he was completely reset, but after a while, I noticed he starts getting more "back" from his DP days.

  5. #110
    SOVA Representative Bluelatios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    I did think in the beginning he was completely reset, but after a while, I noticed he starts getting more "back" from his DP days.
    Could you give an example? I see no way that he has gotten much better at all since he first set foot in Unova.

    Also, I just want to clarify after liking El_'s post; I don't think Hoenn was as much an anime revamp as it was a game revamp. But I agree that Ash's revamp was a result of poor writing.
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  6. #111
    Flirty Thief Kyriaki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Yeah... the whole reboot was really unnecessary when they could've done better. I wish they had done similarly like in Johto.

    In Johto, Ash had all his skills and pokemons from Kanto, he had been pwning most of the early trainers with his powerful Kanto friends, and had been told off for it. After that, he started using his fresh Johto pokes, and only started changing his battle style as to not rely too much on his Kanto pokes.

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    The arguement that Ash being in a new region and is overexcited doesn't work. I'll repeat what I said in another thread. Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh did not take place in his backyard. He should not have regressed that much.

  8. #113
    Registered User MizuTaipu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios View Post

    Could you give an example? I see no way that he has gotten much better at all since he first set foot in Unova.
    Take a look at Satoshi's fights against Yakon and Fuuro. He's also shown some DP maturity in the Kami Trio two-parter.

  9. #114

    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agaçant View Post
    Take a look at Satoshi's fights against Yakon and Fuuro. He's also shown some DP maturity in the Kami Trio two-parter.
    Still doesn't help matters that he was redesigned to look younger than he was in AG and DP and they said he was 10 again.

    Granted its obvious Ash will be a strong trainer come the Unova league, but he still feels off in some way.

  10. #115
    Registered User MizuTaipu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Still doesn't help matters that he was redesigned to look younger than he was in AG and DP
    Are you sure that's the reason? I think his eye redesign was made to match the Sugimori eye designs of the other anime characters. Hanako, Musashi, and Kojirou's eyes were redesigned as well.
    Last edited by MizuTaipu; 21st March 2012 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Curse spelling.

  11. #116
    Crimson Fighter PhilosophyPhlare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agaçant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios View Post

    Could you give an example? I see no way that he has gotten much better at all since he first set foot in Unova.
    Take a look at Satoshi's fights against Yakon and Fuuro. He's also shown some DP maturity in the Kami Trio two-parter.
    He was better than early BW but that does not changed the fact that the reset happened. He still learning lessons he already learned

  12. #117
    SOVA Representative Bluelatios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Take a look at Satoshi's fights against Yakon and Fuuro. He's also shown some DP maturity in the Kami Trio two-parter.
    Ok, well maybe I exaggerated when I said there he hadn't shown any improvement in Unova. He sometimes has an occasional mature moment. But for the most part, he makes ridiculous mistakes that show how underdeveloped he is now.
    Our goal is to get The Pokemon Company International to return the voice actors from the dub by 4Kids. (seasons 1-8)
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  13. #118
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    I don't know. I feel that Satosh's "reset" at the beginning of each saga is a hollow debate. He's using new Pokémon, so of course he won't be the trainer he was with a line up of evolved Pokémon that have a region's worth of experience in them. It's always been established that he's a trainer that needs to bond with his Pokémon to unlock their potential so I'm kinda okay for him to have a slow start in each saga. Pikachu himself is in the overwhelming majority of the time portrayed as an average Pokémon, stronger than the average Pikachu, but not amazing or unbeatable, that has once in a while a really good win, but those wins are always the exception more than they are the rule.

    Yeah, the forgetting how to catch Pokémon was dumb, but meh... it doesn't really bother me.

  14. #119

    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    Yes, they reset him and I don't like it because all of his character development from AG and DP has seemed to go down the drain.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Do you feel that Ash/Satoshi's character has been reset?

    When Best wish started , I wanted to see the New Improve Ash dominate the Unova !
    Not the Other way around !
    Seriously, Writer ruin Ash like this to make us feel refresh & for NEWER FAN.
    -How many Kid start watching pokemon from Best wish ?
    -How many of them didn't watch any epiosde from Dp ?
    -How Many of them didn't check about ''Pokemon'' In Internet ?
    -How many of them doesn't wonder that where Ash got his Pikachu ?
    -How many of them doesn't realize that Ash isn't a rocky like Trip ?
    WHOM DO WRITER'S BETTING ON !
    The reason Why pokemon anime go so well all this time because of Old Fan like us keep watching This .
    And Instate of thanking us , Writer abandoning Us !
    U N F O R G I V A B L E !
    Hey, @adyniz, You watch Naruto Shippuden right !
    So, If Kishimoto decide to make another Seires after Shippuden & decide to reboot Naruto's personality like Ash.
    Can you Accept it ?
    Can you watch some kid who just graduated from academy becoming superior then Naruto from the start like Trip !
    That Naruto has to train even harder to be better then him ! That Boy calling Naruto a bonnie & saying that he has no right to dreaming about being a Hokage !
    Can you accept Naruto going back to being a Village Idiot ?
    Same case with Ash too !
    At least, In previous series we could hope for Ash to win the league. But because of this character reboot we can't even hope for Ash to beat a Rocky before the league !
    Because of this Reboot , Unova seem like a meaningless sage with no Progression !

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