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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    I'll address this here since it doesn't quite fit the rest of the other thread.

    He stated how Misty from start had lowest justification to exist in anime being his fault of not giving her bigger role,developing more her plots and story to strengthen position in anime.
    Which is what I said, but what he's not saying is that Misty still had a lot of development and growing to do, he's saying that he should have done a better job establishing her as her own character and developing her plotlines more to match her development as a character, becauuse at the end of the day, when it came time to cut someone at the end of the original series, the writers went with the character they felt (and I agree) brought the least to the series and didn't have the stamina for another.
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    I'll address this here since it doesn't quite fit the rest of the other thread.



    Which is what I said, but what he's not saying is that Misty still had a lot of development and growing to do, he's saying that he should have done a better job establishing her as her own character and developing her plotlines more to match her development as a character, becauuse at the end of the day, when it came time to cut someone at the end of the original series, the writers went with the character they felt (and I agree) brought the least to the series and didn't have the stamina for another.
    Not really.It can be definitely noticed how other writers cared more for her character than mr.Shudo did recognizing her potential.Fact that mr.Shudo himself stated how if he could he would replace Misty before Johto even began implies how not all members of writing staff shared same view as he did.Further more after Shudo stopped doing series construction it can be noticed increase of Misty focus in Master Quest,catching new pokemon,getting her own arc like Whirl Cup with something being done about goal,screen time getting increased with Misty having several memorable interactions with characters like Dorian,Sakura,Egan etc starting to feel getting back on right track.This was followed up with 4 episodes in chronicles and 4 cameos receiving several references.

    Other members of writing staff showed more care for Misty than mr.Shudo did making it seem like they tried to redeem for some of ex head writer mistakes.Reason why we didnt see some further notable progress of Misty story being made is unfortunately because of plots not being developed enough to allow for such thing with there not being left enough time to do more.Since it was already decided that Misty leaves cast and stop being major character they couldnt do much not having time to do character justice and flesh her out more.Later on she wasnt major character anymore to warrant more exposure.

    To repeat myself:
    Many things in story were never developed regarding Misty.Like goal of becoming water pokemon master which was unexplored for most part,her backstory(not knowing many things like what happened with parents,why she prefers water type,why she fears bugs etc),several of her pokemon were unexplored(like Psyduck,Horsea,Starmie) etc leaving lot of untapped potential there which could be used to do more with her character.
    Unlike its case with Dawn or May we dont know even motives behind Misty desire to become water pokemon master and what influenced her to have preference for one type.We didnt see Misty overcoming her personal issues which stand on her way of becoming water pokemon master never coming to significant realization how to achieve her dreams either.

    We got in end nothing,despite there existing several directions through which Misty story could have been taken.

    Reason Misty got replaced was because ratings started to decline with writers wanting to add some change in cast.Since she had weakest role to stay due to his fault of not being developed enough and considering how he had preference toward TR stay its obvious why female lead was chose as one who got the axe.She had potential to grow more and stamina to last ,otherwise TR wouldnt come in consuderation of getting replaced instead and other writers wouldnt try to redeem partially for mr.Shudo mistakes giving her partial growth in hosos and at end of Johto.
    Sadly decision to remove character was already made,not being lft time to do much more resulting in replacing character with open story and untapped potential having much more left to be done.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Another thing, why wasn't Misty's fear of bugs played up more at Bugsy's Gym? I haven't watched that ep in a long time, (it was a Johto ep after all), but why did Misty show no problems of standing/watching battles in a bug-type Gym?

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    Funny thing was, Misty didn't fear or hate Butterfree as much as she did when he was a Caterpie

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    Misty isn't afraid of bugs she deems cute, are her friends Pokémon or don't look like bug types.

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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Another thing, why wasn't Misty's fear of bugs played up more at Bugsy's Gym? I haven't watched that ep in a long time, (it was a Johto ep after all), but why did Misty show no problems of standing/watching battles in a bug-type Gym?
    Because Misty is afraid only of bug types which she finds scary and creepy. Back in Kanto she didnt mind Ash Butterfree at all finding it even cute,same goes for Tracey Venonat or Heracross but whenever she encountered Beedrill, Ariados, Weedle etc she would freak out. Granted Bugsy used Spinarak too, but Misty was rather far from it not jumping in front of her like it did in its debut episode with there not being reason for character to freak out every few secs when she viewed it from distance. It would also interrupt gym battle for no real reason.Same goes for Koga battle in Kanto when he used Venomoth woith writers not interrupting match with it.

    Later in Bug catching contest (episode "Bug Stops Here") when Ash caught Beedrill Misty was scared for a reason since bugs surrounded her, using physical force.

    In a way her fear from bugs is connected with her tendency top pick pokemon generally by looks and how they look, always leaning more toward water types which she finds cute while avoiding "ugly" ones.

    It would be interesting to see how she would react to Surskit since it is both water and bug having characteristics of arachnoid. This could give us some great character development trying to get over her phobia and become more open toward such pokemon.

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    I'll start off by saying that Misty was my favorite, and this could quite possibly be due to nostalgia goggles. I know a lot of people really hate it when people say things like, "First season was best!" and "Misty was the greatest companion!", and I understand why. It's silly to think that the show hasn't improved since the first season. In terms of plot, art, characters, pretty much everything, the show has taken great leaps. Still, I like the beginning best due to the classic anime feel. I like the hand drawn imperfections, I like the classic anime stereotypes. Heaven help me, I love Misty as a classic tsundere.

    Putting my nostalgia aside, May, Dawn, and Iris are better characters, simply because the writers took their time with them. I feel like the biggest reason Misty didn't get as much screentime was because of how geared towards boys the show was at the beginning. As the creators discovered they had a fairly large female fanbase, they gave her a larger role. I think one of the biggest reasons Misty was pushed aside was to bring in a female character they could start with from scratch, give her a huge role and appeal to their female audience.

    Misty had great potential as a character. She has a great backstory, and a lot could be done with her that we didn't see in May, Dawn or Iris. I think it's a shame we don't get to see her get all the development she deserves, but, well, that's what fanfiction is for, I suppose!

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    The biggest reason Misty didn't get much screentime is because of two reasons:

    1. The show was originally intended to end after Kanto. Since the series was going to be so short, Misty got those few eps in Kanto she did but it was mostly focused on Ash's quest.

    2. When Johto rolled along Takeshi Shudo stepped down as the head anime director, the fillers started pouring in and the writers didn't know what to do with the series until Master Quest.

    And lastly, there was nothing from the games for Misty to do. Without Contests, there is no other major subplots for the main girl to do. Even Iris' dragon goal is being barely focused on for this reason.

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Natty View Post
    I'll start off by saying that Misty was my favorite, and this could quite possibly be due to nostalgia goggles. I know a lot of people really hate it when people say things like, "First season was best!" and "Misty was the greatest companion!", and I understand why. It's silly to think that the show hasn't improved since the first season. In terms of plot, art, characters, pretty much everything, the show has taken great leaps. Still, I like the beginning best due to the classic anime feel. I like the hand drawn imperfections, I like the classic anime stereotypes. Heaven help me, I love Misty as a classic tsundere.

    Putting my nostalgia aside, May, Dawn, and Iris are better characters, simply because the writers took their time with them. I feel like the biggest reason Misty didn't get as much screentime was because of how geared towards boys the show was at the beginning. As the creators discovered they had a fairly large female fanbase, they gave her a larger role.
    Improvement in quality of writing in some aspects has nothing to do with quality and appeal character brings itself in reality. Just because May or Dawn got more development doesnt make them better characters, it just means how their story arcs were handled better.

    Reason why people like Misty is because of great personality and comedy she brought, touching past and unique goals. She imo arguably provided best chemistry pout of all girls between characters in this show bringing healthy interactions and dynamic within group having strong presence within show.She had wide range of emotions she expressed,being both temperament but also sweet inside having her girly moments.From her anger and sarcastic remarks to unselfish and caring nature being willing to help to those she cared about even if it involved risking her own life.
    Misty may have received less, but when she did things it was usually done in quality way getting some significant growth and along with Brock she contributed to Ash growth as trainer more than its case with others.

    We have to take in account how Misty was present in show when formula of pokemon anime was mainly centralized around Ash and his journey of becoming pokemon master. Her purpose in original series was to be supporting character who acted like Ash coach/mentor helping him along with Brock to grow as trainer and person .
    Misty didnt had luxury to have fully fleshed out storyline like May or Dawn had with writers creating pathway through which their development will go, with indicators of character making steps forward being created through benchmarks in which their skill could be measured.

    But its notable to say how she didnt need lot of screen time to become quickly liked. She was popular because of her multi faced personality, touching backstory, funny pokemon(like Psyduck) and unique and mysterious goals like water master with people finding her as outstanding compared to others because of using one type.

    However by all means she did things providing humor and great chemistry between group, had several notable achievements and aside from battling did many other things which influenced plot in one way or another.
    Like saving people lives, towns, taking care of those she cared about, helping to beat TR organization whenever problems occurred, giving moral support to her friends teaching people to never give up hope believing in themselves etc.

    She got some notable growth herself too happening gradually. Like getting over complex of feeling less worthy compared to older sisters, becoming more mature and confident over course of original series with Togepi helping her in that growth by exploring more on different sides of character along with improving skills as trainer. Probably biggest step forward was made when she came top 8 in Whirl Cup, but there were many other notable moments. Like Seaking contest, Kanto princess tournament, Alto mare race, battles vs various trainers like Marina, Mattheus, Giselle, Harrison etc. Challenging unofficial gym leader Dorian, bonding with various wild pokemon like Marill creating strong friendship and learning how to better understand pokemon feelings.

    However main problem was that this things and Misty growth as trainer didnt happened on consistent basis, with big gaps existing between such things.
    However writers obviously did something right,when many people consider her fun and entertaining character.

    I think one of the biggest reasons Misty was pushed aside was to bring in a female character they could start with from scratch, give her a huge role and appeal to their female audience.

    Misty had great potential as a character. She has a great backstory, and a lot could be done with her that we didn't see in May, Dawn or Iris. I think it's a shame we don't get to see her get all the development she deserves, but, well, that's what fanfiction is for, I suppose!
    To this day i think removing Misty was bad move. Removing popular and well liked character which had lot of potential and room to be developed more leaving without any closure to story,being left underdeveloped was poor and unneeded move from writers part.She was equally liked among boys and girls, but since ex head writer mr. Shudo never cared much for character he deciding to add some change to show at her expense(bad choice imo) when ratings dropped in Johto after fad started dying out.

    Writers could had probably increase on Misty role and keep her, but i guess they found how adding new character which was more suitable candidate to do contests was better idea going in correlation with promotion of new games.And since they clearly dont want two girls in cast at same time, it hapened what happened.

    Personally i would like to see her back to cast, even though i know its unlikely(almost impossible). I would be interested to see her being developed more as character, be done more with skills as trainer and her pokemon, to learn more about past and ambitions with writers leaving many things unexplored about it.
    Not only her goal of water master which offered window of opportunities to expand on,but also many other aspects like past.We dont know aside from sisters nothing about Misty parents,how she got first pokemon,why she choose to become water trainer etc.

    I also liked her personality being interested to see how she would interact with new characters and cast nowadays as traveling friend.Perhaps at end of anime writers do some surprise and give this character some justice. Reuniting first group when things come to end hoing for last adventure together would be nice move to have things come full circle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    The biggest reason Misty didn't get much screentime is because of two reasons:

    1. The show was originally intended to end after Kanto. Since the series was going to be so short, Misty got those few eps in Kanto she did but it was mostly focused on Ash's quest.

    2. When Johto rolled along Takeshi Shudo stepped down as the head anime director, the fillers started pouring in and the writers didn't know what to do with the series until Master Quest.

    And lastly, there was nothing from the games for Misty to do. Without Contests, there is no other major subplots for the main girl to do. Even Iris' dragon goal is being barely focused on for this reason.
    I doubt this ever played reason in amount of development Misty is going to get, especially after Takeshi Shudo blogs were revealed. There were several things which could have been done with Misty but due to lack of writers experience and lack of care this didnt happened.For start they could have her enter more water based competitions serving as way through which whole thing would be better defined expanding on her water master goal.They could give her rivals to add more depth and conflict to whole quest.They could have done do more with her pokemon team(like Horsea,Goldeen,Psyduck teaching it to control his powers),have her catch more than one water type in Johto and have her battle more.

    Johto would be definitely more interesting if some of this concepts were implemented in Misty story instead of wasting majority of screen time on pointless fillers which revolved around Ash helping COTD and his pokemon.
    Now its understandable how developing character as much like May or Dawn wasnt going to happen and it wasnt really needed because for good growth quality matters the most, with there existing more than enough available space in OS to give her more focus .
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 12th April 2012 at 01:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    The writers should have treated her like they are treating Iris now. She had alot more years for all that extra growth and development, yet I felt her story and goals could have been focused on more. Especially in the Orange Islands where it was mostly water oriented. I understand Ash being a factor in Kanto but she and Brock needed more to do in general. I liked that she was strong and already experienced but there was very little times where we got to see it outside of Team Rocket. Then in Johto, they should have been doing even more for her since she had Togepi which was a Johto Pokemon and gave hermore Pokemon earlier and not wait so late to give her Corsola and evolve Togepi in a saga which didn't make any sense. It should have evovled in the end of Johto. We never see Togetic again after that, then we see Dawn's twin with a Togekiss. It made me feel weird.

    However, I will seperate the good from the bad. The good was that Azurill which was cute was a good addition for her. I liked that her personality was softer more easy to get along with. She had really grown. And then she actually started to take her gym training more seriously. Plus I liked how she faced her fears with Gyradose. That was definetly the selling point for me. So she had a good role, it's just that I felt it got good so late instead of earlier when they had all that time.
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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    If I had to define my feelings for Kasumi, I'd have to say nuteral. There were in all the seasons she appears in good bits and bad bits with her in all the time she was on the show. One of her big problems was 'standing around too much doing nothing'. That said, when she was good she was excellent and very entertaining. When she was bad she could be pretty dire though. One episode I think sums up my problems with her best is the one where she goes back to her gym to proform in the water show. It starts off well enough with some funny intraction with her and her sisters but then with her appearing in the show. When TR appear, it begins to go down hill thanks to the fact that Kasumi doesn't defend them herself. Even as a kid I was hating the fact that Satoshi and Takeshi had to get involved in a battle that should have been entirely Kasumi's. It was underwater. It was against Team Rocket. It was jarring seeing normal outfits appear in a mermaid show (okay not really a point). And when she did fight back, it was due to her sister's training. After all this, her sister's claim to respect her more but we see the same plot being played all over again.

    Like I said, though I consider myself nuteral and for a good reason. Despite terrilbe points like that, she did have some fun stuff too including the odd good battle. It's her development that really lets her down. She changed as a character but not really in an interesting way and seemed to get worse rather than better as she traveled with Satoshi. She got more pokemon and considering what the games where like I can't really complain there. Her Hoso stuff was great (why is she better without Satoshi?) with her battling more and having more adventures of her own. Plus for the first time, she was inarguably (imo) improving as a trainer.

    I wouldn't mind seeing her again (with better writing) but if she never do, I won't mind.

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    The writers should have treated her like they are treating Iris now.
    That would honestly be worse. The good thing is we got to see Iris in two tournaments already, but since there was nothing like the Don battle tournaments in the older arcs Misty had nothing to compete in.

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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    I was never a fan of Misty, she's directly responsible for making me hate the "Tsundere" archetype. She was a petulant little brat who would physically abuse Ash or Brock at the drop of a hat, and even though the show was more slapstick in nature back then, it doesn't exactly make for an endearing protagonist in any setting.

    Even if her Water Master goal had been given more attention, why should I bother caring about such a measly objective when we have Ash, who's Pokemon Master goal is far more ambitious and interesting, involving all Pokemon types and Gym battles? Togepi only made me dislike her more. I was glad it dragged her further into the background, but I never believed it had brought out her sweeter, motherly-side, because she still had the same crappy attitude towards Ash whenever she was put in the forefront again.

    Why exactly did Pikachu like her so much anyway? Ugh, that just made me hate both characters even more.
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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    I really liked Misty in Kanto and Orange, the slapstick was the best part of the character which was sadly lost in Johto.

    If the show ended after Kanto I'd be fine with Misty overall. But then came Johto. Oh god.
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    Default Re: Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show?

    Speaking of Misty people can say what they want but she was without doubt one of pokemon highlights and one of best and most fun characters we ever had.

    Yes writers didn't developed her enough, but when taking in account how she was first breaking ice with writers not being experienced in several things back than some slack needs to be given with Misty getting some great development and focus when she was in cast. I enjoyed in her battles, colorful interactions with various characters group met on their travels being important part in Ash growth as trainer helping him a lot along with Brock. She often played role of heroine in classic sense saving several lives, fighting up for the weak standing in their defense and usually when she was given chance to shine entertainment was guaranteed. Some of top moments were when she managed to convince giant Tentacruel from stopping in destroying town, when she was given Whirl arc to herself being treated as heroine finally starting to feel how her goal is going somewhere, when she bonded with several pokemon establishing closer connection with them like Marill, Odish or later Gyarados earning its loyalty and trust. When she played underwater ballet as mermaid showing more of her tender side and many more things where she was center of attention contributing to anime appeal.

    One of things i liked about character is how she was able to stand out for herself and people she cares about. Her personality is unique and complex bringing humor, certain charm and lively dynamic being one of most complex characters we had in this show. At one moment she can be very passionate and sensitive, and on the other if someone provokes her the complete opposite being all angry and annoyed.
    Misty wasn't typical "happy go lucky character" showing how she feels, giving audience insight in her personal struggles and problems. Her life wasn't always easy for her, and for every thing which she accomplished she had to work hard for it .

    Another thing i like is fact that she is water type trainer, which makes her stand out from others.Her goal of water master felt unique and i always liked water types because of their variety finding concept interesting.

    I also disagree with everyone who think how "Misty changed for worse over the years becoming dull". Now i can understand that some may have liked only Misty going on rampage 24/7 slapping people which fits her description in early Kanto days but that was hardly only enjoyable aspect about character with there existing much more to her personality than just that, staying funny and interesting character in Johto and Hoenn.
    She was still active and quirky being full of personality with different sides of personality being fleshed out more over time being full of sarcasm and competitive streak, stubborn and witty, passionate and adamant about things she likes, along with more of her girly side being showed which was nice contrast to her temper.

    She went from short tempered girl which didn't had tolerance toward anything trying to cover her insecurity with temper in more mature and levelheaded character over time opening herself toward others with various sides of personality coming out on surface more.
    Because of starting to grow this also allowed for some great character development later on with Misty gaining sisters respect,getting over Gyarados fear, improving battling skills etc growing in tough character becoming more self confident while still having charm and humor.

    I liked Misty equally both before and now having nice blend of spunky and playful yet more mature personality keeping enjoyable older traits while also being enriched with some new ones.

    She was flirty, spunky and full of life as character and overall i think she got some great development. I only wish she was given chance to shine more because there were so many things which she could offer and bring on table leaving while there was left untapped potential to be done more. Writers had successful and popular character and it would be great to see her come back updated with new, fun things being done with character continuing from where they stopped. She definitely has stamina and unfinished things on which it could be expanded and do some great story out of it, in today show format.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    That would honestly be worse. The good thing is we got to see Iris in two tournaments already, but since there was nothing like the Don battle tournaments in the older arcs Misty had nothing to compete in.
    That's not excuse. Since Misty goal was anime exclusive writers could have expanded on her goal breaking new grounds aside from Whirl Cup(which was anime only too) by creating some water themed contests where she could compete in. However since mr. Shudo wasn't very amicable toward character unfortunately, im not surprised why writers didn't started to take more active approach toward Misty goal until ex head writer left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I really liked Misty in Kanto and Orange, the slapstick was the best part of the character which was sadly lost in Johto.

    If the show ended after Kanto I'd be fine with Misty overall. But then came Johto. Oh god.
    Except slapstick stopped being used somewhere in mid Kanto, so im not sure what your trying to say with this. Also i didn't found nothing wrong with Misty as character in Johto still having personality with some of best moments character had happening there, with propblem being too little focus.
    Yes in Johto she didnt got enough being neglected but Brock or TR was treated even worse, and while it may not seem that way because of length of saga Misty in Johto got more screen time and development than she did in Kanto. Like Whirl Cup, Seaking contest, gym battle, formed friendship with various characters,befriended several pokemon like Hoot Hoot, Marill, Chinchau etc. May and Dawn had their dull moments too when Ash was main center wit their characters standing on sidelines,but that doesn't change fact that they were fun when having chance to shine. It counts when they did something,not when they dont.

    Same for Misty, she was still endearing in Johto having several cool moments,great interactions with Egan,Sakura,Dorian,Andreas or Ash and Brock in general. She was interesting in Johto whenever getting screen time, but when character isn't playing some role in episode nor getting focus he isn't having opportunity to interact with other characters and display his traits.

    When writers started increasing her focus in Master Quest doing something about her story(goal with Whirl islands) being followed with focus in chronicles and cameos in Hoenn where some great development occurred, most people found character enjoyable again getting back on right track with her cameos being one of highest TV rated episodes Hoenn had for a reason.

    If you ask me Misty was at her best in Kanto, OI, Hoenn, chronicles and Master Quest from Johto.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 15th April 2012 at 12:03 PM.
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