Did you like Misty/Kasumi's role on the show? - Page 2
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  1. #16
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by J J M View Post
    Misty was actually the first tsundere that I saw, so I actually loved her character when I saw the show all those years ago. I don't know much about battles or "role", but personality-wise and how she interacted with Ash, at least pre-Johto, was really fun.
    Not sure if i get what you mean but in Johto Misty was great personality wise too having memorable interactions and chemistry with group.One of notable moments i remember is when she and Ash were striving for same thing like Totodile or Whirl Cup with some excellent characterization being involved,or when she encouraged Brock to go after girl which liked him having meaningful conversation along with interacting well with Sakura,Egan and several other characters.

    When watching Johto i noticed Misty as character still being quirky and enjoyable starting to mature abit becoming less violent which explains her temper being used less often still being sarcastic,caring,humorous etc.She didnt got enough focus but her personality was from what i noticed alright.

    As for whole tsundere thing Misty was typical tsundere at start of Kanto but with time she started to change showing different sides of her personality not being so stereotypical anymore.

  2. #17
    never ever giving up J J M's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Even if there was "quirky" moments, it was few and far in-between that I barely remember any from her. Whatever I remember from Johto was Misty holding Togepi, worrying when it gets lost, feeding it etc etc.
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    Registered User Afrojisiac-19's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Did I like her role in the series? Hmm, I can't say that I do, and I can't say that I don't...I'm kinda on the fence about that...Seeing what the writers did with May and Dawn, and now Iris makes me feel bittersweet about this.

    Misty IMO was a great character. There wasn't anything totally wrong about her. She was:

    A good character
    Had great personality
    Had a LOT of potential
    But not so good development

    I think the problem was the writers didn't really handle her that well. I would've liked for her to have been more involved in the plot. Have outlets in the show to improve her skills more, and develop her character. But instead of that, Misty was treated poorly. She was used solely as a female token placeholder rather than an actual character. And you can clearly tell that the writers didn't view her highly, especially Takeshi Shudo (of course anyone can get that reading his blogs). It's saddening when you have a writer that clearly shows favoritism to certain characters over others.

    That being said, Misty still had her moments where she stood out, and shined like a real character. I wouldn't say I really liked her role, because there was so much more that they could've done with her. Like I said, she was a great character but with a lot of unused potential.

  4. #19

    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    I think another problem is too much of Misty's character was focused on being a potential love interest, especially in Orange Islands where they kept bringing it up. Now I don't want to turn this into a shipping argument, but the writers wound up treating Misty as a love interest for the main character at the time, rather than her own character. Instead of focusing on Misty's own dream and goals, they instead kept the, "Misty likes Ash so she'll just support him on the sidelines" thing going way too long.

    If the writers knew how long the show would go on, they obviously would have never pushed the Ash/Misty thing as much as they did in the first two seasons. Since of course there were no other main females at the time, they also figured they might as well pair up the hero with the only other female character on the show at that point.

    As the series progressed, and as Shudo says in his blogs, he realized romance couldn't work in Pokemon (at least with Ash), which is why it was abandoned during the Johto arc.

    In retrospect it would have never happened if the writers knew what they know now. Misty would have had a cohesive story arc, at least on the level of Iris, and not be, "token love interest for main hero."

  5. #20
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by J J M View Post
    Even if there was "quirky" moments, it was few and far in-between that I barely remember any from her. Whatever I remember from Johto was Misty holding Togepi, worrying when it gets lost, feeding it etc etc.
    Well lack of screen time=/=quality of her personality being decreased.
    If you want i recommend to rewatch some of Johto episodes where she got notable focus to see what im talking about.Like "Hook,Line and Stinker","Some Like it Hot",Whirl Cup,"Unbearable",,"Totodile Duel","Joy of water pokemon",episodes involving Salura,etc,etc.
    Such "quirk"moments of her character happened quite often not being so much rare having good interacting with Ash and Brock feeling like group from what i noticed after rewatching this saga not too long ago.

    Whenever Misty got spotlight on her own in Johto or whenever she shared screen time with someone else she showed her unique traits being visibly showed how she was still full of personality.
    Minus temper being less frequent due to becoming little more mature all other persona aspects of Misty were pretty much same in Johto like they were before.
    Problem is that in episodes where she didnt got any focus being in background her character didnt had chance to interact much with others.Every character like Ash,May,Dawn etc sometimes stand on side lines not showing his traits,it just happens that in Misty case this moments were more often with writers going little overboard in Johto not giving her enough focus for such a long region.Result of their incompetence and mistakes not knowing how to handle several things right at that time.

    However it can be noticed that Misty began to mature as character in Johto starting to develop getting over her complex of inferiority which was caused by sisters later on developing further in chronicles and cameos in more confident and serene character while retaining her older enjoyable traits like spunk,sarcasm,fears being still hotheaded but less violent one.In my opinion Misty developed in nice blend of older and new Misty with majority liking how he developed post Johto.

    However on negative side many things in her story were left unfinished(her goal is just one of them),her character didnt got over some flaws which stand on her way of achieving her dreams not being fleshed out enough to be honest.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 4th June 2011 at 02:01 PM.

  6. #21

    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I think another problem is too much of Misty's character was focused on being a potential love interest, especially in Orange Islands where they kept bringing it up.
    It's part of her characterization and one of her most distinctive personality traits. I can't see how that makes her a worser character. Her lack of focus in Johto is shows that.

    As the series progressed, and as Shudo says in his blogs, he realized romance couldn't work in Pokemon (at least with Ash), which is why it was abandoned during the Johto arc.
    He didn't say that. He claimed that Kasumi had no romantic feelings towards Satoshi at all.
    1. Satoshi/Ash Ketchum: 801 episodes
    2. Team Rocket: 736 episodes
    3. Takeshi/Brock: 633 episodes
    4. Kasumi/Misty: 282 episodes
    5. Hikari/Dawn: 201 episodes
    6. Haruka/May: 197 episodes
    7. Masato/Max: 192 episodes
    8. Iris: 141 episodes
    9. Dent/Cilan: 138 episodes
    10. Kenji/Tracey: 44 episodes

  7. #22
    Registered User Afrojisiac-19's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister
    He didn't say that. He claimed that Kasumi had no romantic feelings towards Satoshi at all.
    Which didn't make much sense, seeing as that didn't stop the writers from putting in shipping hints here and there...Why would they have Misty have a fit when Melody flirted with Ash? Also, when Macy was laying the flirts hard on Ash, they made Misty get all riled up...Takeshi Shudo said he wanted pokemon to appeal to families and not just kids. IMO, a potential crush between Ash and Misty just might've added a slightly more mature aspect to pokemon without completely ruining the dynamic. But instead, he chose to abandon it rather than trying to handle it maturely.

    He made Misty's prescence on the show seem quite unecessary, only being there because of Ash. That's such a feeble, frail, and dependant existance to have. But even then, I wouldn't say that her existence on the show was the least justified. She deserved her own justification.

  8. #23

    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Afrojisiac-19 View Post
    He made Misty's prescence on the show seem quite unecessary, only being there because of Ash. That's such a feeble, frail, and dependant existance to have. But even then, I wouldn't say that her existence on the show was the least justified. She deserved her own justification.
    I don't think he meant she was pointless, just that her role could be interchanged with any other female character and there wouldn't be much difference.

    We've now seen 3 different female characters in the show after Misty, and they all function in the same, "token female" role when they're not being focused on. In all those heavy Ash-centric eps, May/Dawn/Iris stand on the sidelines doing absolutely nothing. But then of course the writers make sure to give them their own episodes in regular intervals, so they don't seem like they're just there.

    For the most part aside from the different dynamic Misty had with Ash compared to the others, her role was essentially not that important to the anime. We've now seen the anime go on for almost 10 years and 550+ episodes after she left, so there is truth to his statement.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    It's part of her characterization and one of her most distinctive personality traits. I can't see how that makes her a worser character. Her lack of focus in Johto is shows that.
    Agreed while im not shipper if anything Mistys crush on Ash was part of her character too.What i find strange is how mr.Shudo claimed that Misty didnt had any love interest with anime canon showing otherwise and even if he didnt intend this its his fault of giving away that kind of impression.

    Both in Kanto,OI and even at some parts in Johto(Macy episode right now comes to mind)Misty seemed to have romantic affection toward Ash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    I don't think he meant she was pointless, just that her role could be interchanged with any other female character and there wouldn't be much difference.
    That doesnt change fact that May,Dawn and even Iris are being treated better story wise with more focus being out on their own stories and goals with their pokemon getting more focus and battling overall(Iris is still pending).

    With Misty her story and dreams were barely focused on,her pokemon got often neglected with her character not being fleshed out enough with lot of things being left unanswered(from her family,to her fears not being exploited,not knowing what influenced her decision to become water master preferring to use water type etc).
    Its clearly obvious when you read mr,Shudo blogs how he never cared much for Misty at all preferring TR over others not wanting to give her more of role treating her as merely something little more than token female.It seems he wanted to get rid of her long before Johto even started but given how anime was very popular with other members of wrting staff probably not sharing same view he had no choice but to keep her.
    Because of his attitude toward character and poor treatment this resulted in Misty ending with weakest reason to stay being axed eventually which he could correct if wanted by increasing her focus and role.

    Its also sad and interesting at same time how Misty goal of becoming water master getting more focus and screen time happened after mr,Shudo stopped doing series construction in Master Quest with other writers trying to redeem for some of mistakes but it was too little and too late with her character being replaced.

    For the most part aside from the different dynamic Misty had with Ash compared to the others, her role was essentially not that important to the anime. We've now seen the anime go on for almost 10 years and 550+ episodes after she left, so there is truth to his statement.
    Her importance was in fact of being part of original group which started this how introducing viewers to it making it become popular along with Ash and Brock.We can see by backlash her departure caused and being worldwide liked and accepted that she left pretty big mark on this series,.That and she along with Brock helped Ash to grow as trainer being like his coach and mentor providing moral support.

  10. #25

    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    I wonder if the writers knew at the time that, "A real Cleffa hanger" was going to be her last episode appearance for several years. I rewatched that episode recently, and at the end of the ep Ash's group and Misty just casually turn around and go their separate ways. This episode aired way back in 2005 after Ash came home from the Hoenn league.

    Its not what you would expect as a "final appearance" from Misty, as it was really just a Misty/Max bonding episode and a bit of a filler plot about Clefairy at Mt. Moon. I suppose when they made that episode they had no idea that they would have to rush the Battle Frontier saga and move on to DP.

    Either way, all the other characters have had a bit more importance to their final ep appearances to date, (May's in DP79, Dawn/Brock's DP191 and specials), but Misty just kinda got what is essentially an ep that was mostly about Max of all people. Seems odd to me, as Misty and Max obviously will never interact again and Misty's last appearance had nothing to do with her water pokemon goal itself or even her own character.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    "Real Cleffa Hanger"was good episode liking interaction between Misty and Max showing more of her soft and caring side while at same time growing enough to know how to take care of herself and others.It was nice when Azurill used refresh to cure Pikachu.

    I doubt this was intended to be Misty final appearance with writers probably planning to have her back somewhere down the road.Many things they left hanging in the air and undefined with this episode being simply continuation to Pallet reunion not being focused much on Misty character.
    For someone like her who has many things left unexplored in story(not only her dream,but past and reasons behind some decisions and preferences)it is to expect that writers might return her at some point in future at least to tie up loose ends.Maybe not soon and unfortunately probably not as main character but while doubtful i wouldnt completely discard chance of seeing Misty in BW.

    Coming back during 8th gym could make perfect sense to help maybe Iris about potential gym problems to overcome,or to compete in some tournament to advance her dream.
    Considering how Unova is isolated from rest of regions Ash traveled through means how pokemon from there are hard to obtain outside of it with there existing believable excuse for Misty to travel to this region to catch some new water pokemon serving as plotline to meet up with group.

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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    I liked Misty's role on the show, even if she mostly served as Brock's keeper during the Johto saga. I enjoyed her since she had personality. A lot of the other main girl characters have been very lovely in their own ways, but none of them have been as animated as Misty was.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    One of things i find weird is how many people forget that Misty actually received more screen time in Johto than she did in Orange or Kanto.She entered more competitions,did something big about her goal like entering Whirl Cup,battled more trainers,helped save group couple of times like she get them out of forrest in Hoot,Hoot episode or helped to save Pikachu and Togepi from giant TR tank as well some of her pokemon receiving some character development evolving like Poliwhirl for example.

    I suppose reason is because Johto was longer than previous two regions with increase of Misty focus not being notable and big enough compared to length of saga.

    One of things i liked about Misty in this region is that she had several memorable interactions with characters like fire trainer Egan explaining why she likes water pokemon,drawing nice parallel with Sakura with connection of both having older sisters becoming good friends and rivals in a way,Andreas from Seaking tournament with who he had a bad start later on gaining his respect etc.
    She also had great connection with Brock and Ash giving that touch of being long time known friends.One of examples which comes to my mind was when she encouraged him to go after girl he likes like Temaku in"Heartbreak of Brock"criticizing him for not doing first move or when he was deceived by Ninetales illusion wanting to get him out of trans etc. along with rivalry between her and Ash being revived on several occasions like when thy battled Totodile or entered Whirl Cup.

    Maybe Misty didnt received enough screentime in Johto but she still had some nice character development with her great personality compensating in a way with her sarcasm and attitude contributing to enjoyable chemistry within main group.

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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    I'm sure if Misty had some sort of competition to compete in like how May and Dawn had contests then it would give her even more significance. But other then that Ash's other girl co stars played a very similar role as Ash's cheerleaders travel companion and someone to argue with. Isn't Iris only following Ash because he's not familiar with the region? there is no really big reason why she is following him either. Misty was a great character for the 5 years she starred, but the writers really made Ash stupid and oblibious to her real feelings but I guess if they were to end up together then that would have been a big example of "jumping the shark" and the show probably would have ended.

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    Default Re: Did you like Kasumi's role on the show?

    Honestly, I wouldn't have her time on the show, pan out any other way. She was funny and cute and her character was complex enough for her presence to be felt, without the need for huge participation in the plots.
    I think, if she had of been involved in the plot more, it could of jeopardized her personality.

    He didn't say that. He claimed that Kasumi had no romantic feelings towards Satoshi at all.
    I think that was a case of backtracking. A lot of the shipping was dub added, undoubtedly, but the Japanese episodes have hints too, just on a smaller scale and much less frequently. The bottom line is, there are hints there.
    They were amateurs back then. I agree with Gliscor'd. It wasn't that they didn't know where to take Kasumi in terms of her role, it was just that they didn't know how to write for the female role well enough, or care enough about the sidekicks roles to do so, at that point.
    Because they had no plans for anything long term, they came up with the basic premise of boy, older brother figure, and girl. The natural inclination for any writer would be to construe some kind of romance between the boy and girl, and to an extent they did.
    As time went on, the story developed and they realized the show was gonna run for longer than expected, they dropped the idea because they didn't want to take it any further.

    That, I believe was the case.

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