Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show? - Page 6

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  1. #76
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn's role on the show?

    Off-screen battles mean nothing though. If we don't get to see them there's no point to discussing them.

    It honestly made Dawn getting into the final seem effortless. She should not have battled Jessie in the semi-finals, especially with the way that match was treated.

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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Off-screen battles mean nothing though. If we don't get to see them there's no point to discussing them.
    I was just pointing out those off-screen battles to show that Dawn didn't get all the way to the finals by only beating Ursula and Jessie like you mentioned before, even though it was in a more joking manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd
    It honestly made Dawn getting into the final seem effortless. She should not have battled Jessie in the semi-finals, especially with the way that match was treated.
    I agree that the rush pace to the Grand Festival made it feel like Dawn got to the finals too easy, which was honestly disappointing considering how it could have been so much better. I don't mind that she battled Jessie in the semi-finals, if only because I wanted Jessie to get a high rank in the Grand Festival. It definitely should have been given its own episode instead of a brief thirty-minute clip show of their battle. It didn't make me eager to see Dawn win in the finals if I didn't see how she struggled against her other opponents. Plus, we really should have been able to see all of Jessie's skills in that battle to show how much she had improved as a Coordinator in this series and so she could go out in a blaze of glory.
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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn's role on the show?

    I think the long pacing of DP also hurt the development of Dawn's overall character. Since she only got 1 contest arc, most of her team and rivals had to remain stagnant to last for the entire arc. As pointed out, Piplup/Buneary/Pachirisu went relatively unchanged for literally 180 episodes.

    Zoey and Kenny couldn't really change or grow either, and Ursula/Nando were just underused and barely appeared.

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    Default Was Dawn's Togekiss the most pointless Pokemon on the main cast in years?

    Dawn's Togekiss is very, very odd. It was given to Dawn literally 2 episodes before her Grand Festival, at the tail-end of DP. It had one training episode about it, and then of course was used against Zoey in the finals. After that it did absolutely nothing for the rest of DP, (naturally, the tail-end of DP was focused on Ash and Paul).

    Then we had Dawn's special, where again Togekiss did nothing as the focus was on Cyndaquil evolving. Then Dawn came back for BW, and what did Togekiss do? Again, absolutely nothing. Only Piplup, Mamoswine and Quilava got any focus upon her return.

    So what in the world was the point of the pointless Togekiss? Everytime I think of Dawn's Togekiss, the word, "WHY?!" pops into my head. Why does it exist?

    Anyway, thoughts on what the point of it was?

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    Default Re: Was Dawn's Togekiss the most pointless Pokemon on the main cast in years?

    Sorry for the delay, but the topic has been approved. However, since Dawn's team has been discussed here before, the thread will be merged with this one rather than having its own separate thread.

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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Dawn's Togekiss is very, very odd. It was given to Dawn literally 2 episodes before her Grand Festival, at the tail-end of DP. It had one training episode about it, and then of course was used against Zoey in the finals. After that it did absolutely nothing for the rest of DP, (naturally, the tail-end of DP was focused on Ash and Paul).

    Then we had Dawn's special, where again Togekiss did nothing as the focus was on Cyndaquil evolving. Then Dawn came back for BW, and what did Togekiss do? Again, absolutely nothing. Only Piplup, Mamoswine and Quilava got any focus upon her return.

    So what in the world was the point of the pointless Togekiss? Everytime I think of Dawn's Togekiss, the word, "WHY?!" pops into my head. Why does it exist?

    Anyway, thoughts on what the point of it was?
    You sure like making dawn bash threads but i'll answer anyways.

    Nope. The most pointless pokemon to be captured in years would be stunfisk. That thing got a capture episode then one 3 second battle was a cincinno, completely useless otherwise.
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    i personatly like dawn appearance in the anime, she was cherful and full of confidance, and unlike her fellow coordinator mc may, dawn had her eye in the goal and i personatly like her contest and i actually nearly cry of joy when i knew she would return in BW2, in fact screw the wallace cup they should had left her stay in unova instead of iris
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    Default Re: Was Dawn's Togekiss the most pointless Pokemon on the main cast in years?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Dawn's Togekiss is very, very odd. It was given to Dawn literally 2 episodes before her Grand Festival, at the tail-end of DP. It had one training episode about it, and then of course was used against Zoey in the finals. After that it did absolutely nothing for the rest of DP, (naturally, the tail-end of DP was focused on Ash and Paul).

    Then we had Dawn's special, where again Togekiss did nothing as the focus was on Cyndaquil evolving. Then Dawn came back for BW, and what did Togekiss do? Again, absolutely nothing. Only Piplup, Mamoswine and Quilava got any focus upon her return.

    So what in the world was the point of the pointless Togekiss? Everytime I think of Dawn's Togekiss, the word, "WHY?!" pops into my head. Why does it exist?

    Anyway, thoughts on what the point of it was?
    Leave poor Togekiss alone. It did it's part. But when Dawn came back for her cameo it did nothing. So it's not like she overused it or anything.
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    I can't believe how lopsided Dawn's team was. I remember thinking it had the potential to be the best too.

    Her first 3 Pokemon remained cute plushes for little kids, Ambipom gets released, Mamoswine was a powerhouse with very few epic battles, and Quilava and Togekiss were just rushed last-minute Pokemon. I honestly don't know what happened.

    If Ambipom had stayed her team would have looked much better.
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    I get that Piplup was mascot material and that's why it didn't evolve, but if May could have a giant Blaziken compete in contests then why couldn't Dawn have an Empoleon?

    As for the topic question, I have mixed feelings about Dawn. Sometimes I think she's just fine, and sometimes I don't find her that interesting. After she won the Wallace Cup is around the time I started liking her less, and it's not because she beat May. It's just that I was becoming less interested in her character, since she was basically the female version of Ash. I remember when DP first began airing and I was all hyped about Dawn because she was the first girl to get so much focus. The entire first episode was mostly about her starting off, and Ash didn't come in until towards the end of the episode. After a while the hype kind of died down for me. I don't hate Dawn, but she's not one of my favorite main characters. (That spot belongs to May, but the other 3 girls I have mixed feelings about, but that's another topic.) Also, I love Piplup, even if its dub voice got annoying at times.

    Look Forward, Team Rocket!

    Also I claim Piplup in the Claim a Pokemon thread =)

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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    I can't believe how lopsided Dawn's team was. I remember thinking it had the potential to be the best too.

    Her first 3 Pokemon remained cute plushes for little kids, Ambipom gets released, Mamoswine was a powerhouse with very few epic battles, and Quilava and Togekiss were just rushed last-minute Pokemon. I honestly don't know what happened.

    If Ambipom had stayed her team would have looked much better.
    Well, I would have gladly prefer Ambipom sticking around instead of Dawn getting Togekiss, but I'm not sure if it would have been that much better. I would have liked it if Buneary had either evolved or learned a fourth move by the time of the Grand Festival. I didn't mind that Piplup didn't evolve and Pachirisu couldn't evolve anyway, although I think that both Buneary and Pachirisu could have stood out more since I kept forgetting about them by the middle of the series. Mamoswine was a good idea, but I don't think that they handled it that well. Since she barely did anything with it as a Swinub, I couldn't really feel bad for her when it wouldn't listen to her and while the way the problem was solved was fine, it didn't feel as emotionally satisfying for me because of how quick it happened. Plus, I don't think that it had a lot of single battles.

    I'm still relatively content with how Quilava was handled. It was given to her late in the series, but unlike Togekiss, it actually got pretty decent screentime for that part of the series. It helped her win her fifth ribbon, was in the appeal round of the Grand Festival and was used in that clip show battle against Jessie. For a Pokemon caught fairly late into the series, that still sounds pretty good to me. Togekiss, on the other hand, didn't really do much and was clearly only throw in there for a last-minute promotion of a fourth generation Pokemon. Although, given the amount of screentime it got, they could have just given it to another rival to use during the Grand Festival. Ambipom sticking around would have been a lot better than to get Togekiss right before the Grand Festival, but I'm not sure if it would have improved her team that much if Buneary and Pachirisu remained forgotten and Mamoswine was still handled in the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charbok
    I get that Piplup was mascot material and that's why it didn't evolve, but if May could have a giant Blaziken compete in contests then why couldn't Dawn have an Empoleon?
    I think it was because they wanted her to have cute Pokemon for the most part and I think that an interview from a few years ago said that Empoleon wouldn't fit with Dawn or her Contests. Besides that, unlike with May and Blaziken, they already had other trainers with Piplup's evolve forms so that they could promote the whole evolution line without evolving Piplup.
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Dawn's Togekiss is very, very odd. It was given to Dawn literally 2 episodes before her Grand Festival, at the tail-end of DP. It had one training episode about it, and then of course was used against Zoey in the finals. After that it did absolutely nothing for the rest of DP, (naturally, the tail-end of DP was focused on Ash and Paul).

    Then we had Dawn's special, where again Togekiss did nothing as the focus was on Cyndaquil evolving. Then Dawn came back for BW, and what did Togekiss do? Again, absolutely nothing. Only Piplup, Mamoswine and Quilava got any focus upon her return.

    So what in the world was the point of the pointless Togekiss? Everytime I think of Dawn's Togekiss, the word, "WHY?!" pops into my head. Why does it exist?

    Anyway, thoughts on what the point of it was?


    I forgot this but about 28-29 of ash's 30 tauros were completely pointless captures, doomed to never be used. At least togekiss got used.
    Last edited by Hoopa; 20th October 2012 at 11:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    Simply speaking of her personality she was fine. The writers made her into a bit too much of an Ash clone later on in DP which made her less interesting IMO, she was better during the first 50 or so DP episodes when her personality was more distinct.

    It's really just Dawn's lackluster interactions with the main cast and her rivals that brought her down, as well as the merchandizing of her team which screwed it over.

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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Simply speaking of her personality she was fine. The writers made her into a bit too much of an Ash clone later on in DP which made her less interesting IMO, she was better during the first 50 or so DP episodes when her personality was more distinct.

    It's really just Dawn's lackluster interactions with the main cast and her rivals that brought her down, as well as the merchandizing of her team which screwed it over.
    Well Dawn's interactions with Ash and Brock was good. Actually more better. Because it always seemed like May was distracted from even interacting with Ash or Brock as much as she could. But let's look at Dawn's team for one. There's Piplup. The mascot merchandise. Which meant no evolution what so ever and the same damn bubblebeam attack. There was Pachirisu who couldn't evolve and Buneary who didn't change it's attacks nor did we got into any real deph of Buneary's crush on Pikachu. Now for me, I never liked Aipom so it doesn't matter if she kept it or not. Aipom/Ambipom shouldn't just reflect on how upset some was for her team. If Dawn caught a Togetic, the complaints would have been much worse. Then there's Mamoswine, which people really shouldn't have anything against. She trained hard to try to get the Pokemon to listen and atleast it's disobedience lasted longer than Iris's. Mamoswine was raised from a Swinub and evolved quickly just like Charmeleon was. I have no complaints about her Mamoswine.

    In BW the writing wa different, so I was expecting things to not be right as it was. I liked Dawn's development in DP overall because she was a rookie who worked hard to become strong. Togekiss doesn't bother me since it was a plot to get Dawn as far as she did. But that goes to show you that power doesn't mean everything.

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    Default Re: Did you like Dawn/Hikari's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Well Dawn's interactions with Ash and Brock was good. Actually more better.
    With Ash, yes. With Brock, what? Good? Well, I guess it depends from how you look at things. Dawn and Brock were obviously good friends, but were there interactions anything special? Was it interesting? Was it different? No. It was boring and nearly non-existent. It nearly felt like the two were forced to travel with each other.

    Then there's Mamoswine, which people really shouldn't have anything against. She trained hard to try to get the Pokemon to listen and atleast it's disobedience lasted longer than Iris's.
    You do realize that Iris has had Excadrill for a couple of years, right? And if you also saw BW33, you would be able to see in flashbacks that Iris during various times had tried to cheer Excadrill up and that she had tried connecting with. Iris did definitely try, but expecting her to be just as determined and cheerful after a couple of years without any sort of success is a bit too much if you ask me. Naturally, she lost hope, and thus stopped trying so hard connecting to Excadrill, as she already had done it countless times before, without managing to get through to it.

    Besides, Mamoswine's evolution/development was totally rushed. I don't recall seeing Swinub participating in any sort of training expect for the short battle it had with the Psyducks. Yet it did evolve after some time.

    Togekiss doesn't bother me since it was a plot to get Dawn as far as she did. But that goes to show you that power doesn't mean everything.
    ''A plot to get Dawn as far as she did''? What?

    At first, before I had even seen the episodes, I thought for sure that Dragonite would be the worst capture ever, even worse than Togekiss. Now I think different. The thing is, that with Dragonite, Iris actually receives some real development, and with Dragonite we've actually seen her struggle, doing her best really trying to get through to it. Togekiss? Well, she was captured just a couple of episodes before Grand Festival, the final challenge which she'd have to go through in order to reach her goal, and it was only seen in one battle, and it was even the final battle, which was the worst thing the writers ever could've pulled. Dragonite, Iris received just before the World Cup, but that's where we saw her struggle with it and go through some actual development with it. It brought the relationship between the two them forward, and it remained disobediant even afterwards, allowing some more development to take place later on. Besides, the World Cup would've done nothing for Iris' goal, while the Grand Festival meant everything for Dawn.

    Even in her cameo, Togekiss received no whatoever development. That's why I'm greatly annoyed by it.
    ''A single thread in a tapestry though its color brightly shine, can never see its purpose, in the pattern of the grand design.''

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