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  1. #16
    Find me on Serebii Forums Ash Ketchum!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agaçant View Post
    Satoshi got training episodes while Haruka/Hikari had Appeal practicing episodes, so why didn't Takeshi get episodes throughout Houen and Sinnoh focusing on Breeding?
    I'm guessing the writers were experimenting with having a female Ash and an actual co-star along with him.

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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I liked Takeshi at two points: Kanto and DP. After Kanto it became clear that he was only really there because they wanted a character that could cook. His personality became more based around his running gag too (though I don't think there was a point where he didn't suffer from that at least a bit.) In DP though, they started to wrap him up, give him a funny pokemon and epand on his role as a breeder and his lack of ambition too. He had good interaction with Shinji, Satoshi, many COTD, Honoka, and (when it happened) Hikari. He tended to be underused but when he was good he was very good. If he hadn't had his running gag pounded in so much, he could have been excellent.

  3. #18
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Agaçant View Post
    Satoshi got training episodes while Haruka/Hikari had Appeal practicing episodes, so why didn't Takeshi get episodes throughout Houen and Sinnoh focusing on Breeding?
    I'm guessing the writers were experimenting with having a female Ash and an actual co-star along with him.
    This is true. But since Brock has been on longer and has more experience, giving him something to do or give him a better story could have been just as easier.

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    Registered User Cinderfella's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Asking me whether I liked Brock's role on the show is asking people like what do they think of pizza after its been in and out the oven for the whole damn day. Brock used to be a boss(hence the avatar) for a good long time. Hey, I will even go on as to say I missed him when he left before OI. But......here's the thing:

    1.) Despite Brock being funny in Kanto and OI, Johto was another story. Yes, his Crobat got better developed than he did and that is a damn shame.

    2.) In AG he had some really nice group dynamics, but ultimately his Pokemon once again outshined him, i.e. really Ludicolo.

    3.) DP he was just dull and I felt couldn't add anything more. Like seriously I started to ask myself why did the writers bring him back again? It was not ok, it was not entertaining, and it was not fun.

    I did like Brock, until he became stale. He doesn't deserve a cameo anytime soon, but I will go on to say that he should make another one out of respect and nostalgia, but damn sure not in the near future.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    The Brock of the first seasons was okey but in the newests I didnt like it.
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    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I'm feeling a little glad that they replaced him with someone who DOESN'T flirst with the ladies all the time.

  7. #22
    Find me on Serebii Forums Ash Ketchum!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny Queen View Post
    I'm feeling a little glad that they replaced him with someone who DOESN'T flirst with the ladies all the time.
    I thought that gag was pretty funny in the Indigo season, but yeah Brock did get stale in DP because there was so much emphasis on Dawn.

  8. #23
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Here is my review on Brock by each saga:
    Kanto: This is where his journey started, and i can say Brock was really fun, straightforward and energetic playing of great with Misty and Ash. He was portrayed as young teen who was trying to escape from life of "pseudo parent"to his family waning to start his own adventure and pursue his own dreams and desires and meeting with Ash changed that. I liked his small talks with Ash helping him in training, choice of pokemon and strategy giving him encouragement and support, arguing with Misty having many memorable moments from joking with each other, hitting themselves to dancing together helping each other about their problems. As well his trouble in approaching toward girls being rejected almost every time(poor guy), along with trying to learn as much as he can about breeding and how to improve shape of his pokemon.

    You could really tell he started learning and progressing forward as breeder helping other breeders, and knowing how to bring solution to unexpected problem. Such as helping Florina in Gloom episode to be more confident in herself and her abilities, developed strong friendship with Suzy which gave him Vulpix, learned from AJ about various types of food, entered PK tournament along with Ash and his Primeape, entered unofficial Togepi tournament, helped Ash to save Charmander, played role in Ash special training before league and many other things making cast complete .

    Johto:Like many things he didn't escape of being neglected at times, not receiving enough focus to properly shine. But he still had some great moments there, and i can say he still had great chemistry with Ash, still helping him by giving tips and coming up with strategies for his battles at times. Same applies to Misty with two having really strong and functional friendship there(probably best chemistry out of all main females). They had talks about romance, gave advices to each other, making sure that other side doesn't get in trouble etc having many comic scenes. Some of particularly memorable moments were when Brock argued with Ash about Donphan wanting to catch him, when he tried begging Ash to help him about girls insecurely not knowing what to do with so many around(such as Sakura sisters), when he made Misty angered when not paying attention in important things such as tea ceremony sometimes clashing with each other, or when pulling her by ear(for change)when she got too eager etc. I really liked his interactions there.

    I can say he got some valuable growth there too, such as doing more active steps toward breeding career. Learning how to prepare new potions and medicines, exchanging knowledge with other breeders, applying his skills in resolving problems with many wild pokemon like Stantler or Sudowoodo, entering breeding competition returning Vulpix to long time friend Suzy, had his Zubat and Pineco evolve etc.

    Hoenn: He was still that goofy lovable guy sometimes acting before thinking being nervous in front of young, attractive girls having his heart many times broken.
    I think Max presence in Hoenn definitely helped character not feeling left out(unlike it was case in DP). They had good interactions together with Max having admiration and respect for Brock, and he had memorable moments with May too going to shopping, clashing at times, May dragging him to haunted house etc. And there were many characters with who he established good interactions even managing to spark attention of some girls for himself. Such as Frontier brain Pike Queen Lucy showing to be attracted by him heavily blushing.

    He also got Bonsly,his Mudkip evolved as well his Lotad feeling like he is getting somewhere collecting new knowledge and methods about breeding and taking care of your pokemon. We can see that in learning to prepared new sort of food pokeblocks, in showing great deal of knowledge when treating sick or poisoned pokemon like Sharpedo, Nuzleef or Bagon.
    Along the way he entered various competitions like that deceit institute of cheer leading where he battled James and Cacnea, entered contests to impress breeder Yuma and went all the way to finals where e battled May, battled along with Ash to save reputation at Pewter gym from TR with his Steelix etc.

    In Hoenn and BF i feel Brock really gained something from longer stay, progressing forward.

    Sinnoh:Sadly this was region where he got shafted the most, not being given much development and chance to shine and display his real qualities as character. On big part reason came from bad repartition of screen with majority being distributed among Ash and Dawn and promotion of two stars and friendship often leaving Brock out of it.

    However to be honest when you think about it Brock had several memorable moments there too being anything but useless in my eyes. Personality wise he seemed pretty similar to me like he was in AG generation still acting calm,wise and irrational liking to flirt with girls acting like older brother and care taker being you could say "voice of reason in cast". He often gave advices to Ash and Dawn stopping them from rushing foolishly in danger, gave vibe of still being strong friend with Ash helping him in training Chimchar and later Infernape when perfecting flare blitz , training him prior to Roarks gym, played role in Ash and Dawn exchanging Buizel and Aipom etc. And even though connection to Dawn was weakest out of all girls, i would by lying if i said how they didn't had their moments. Such as teaching her to prepare medicines when taking care of sick Pachirisu, drawing her in performance of "Takeshi Paradise"in Psyduck roadblock episode, helping in preparing costumes for Heartcome collection etc.

    He had his moments in Sinnoh as well getting his first egg allowing to see his knowledge as breeder used to full potential growing from Happiny in strong and healthy Chancey, took care of various pokemon practicing skills(, had pretty good chemistry with Holly in tag tournament, helped that girl from Miltank maid caffe which had problems with Miltank, Autumn, girl with Ditto, nurse Joy in episode where Happiny evolved etc.
    Brock also entered various contests;like tag battle tournament,played role in Team Galactic arc along with CRoagunk which developed rivalry with Toxicroac,entered pokemon transformation contest, Croagunk festival,summer school triathlon etc.

    Though i do admit this was probably his weakest saga.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    But all in all, at end of day i liked Brock and appreciated time he had on cast. I have many fond memories of his character. playing valuable role being like some sort of older parental figure which cooked and took care of group, helped in navigation and finding gyms along with many other tiny things which we often take for granted. Aside from that he guided Ash helping him to grow into better trainer,giving many useful tips and coming up with strategies in several battles providing lot of wisdom and knowledge to group.
    He also brought comedy, good dynamic between characters and many enjoyable moments adding certain mix of irrationality and order in whole group having his share of moments becoming better breeder with time learning new things and applying them in many crisis situations. His running gags were funny too when it comes to girls, and i know one day he will find his true love.

    Hopefully we will see him again, because i miss his character and would like to see more being done with him. Who knows maybe one day he and Cilan might have cooking showdown, that would be hilarious(lol).
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 27th August 2012 at 08:58 AM.

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    Registered User PockyAddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I loved his role from the Original Series and Advance Generation but his Diamond and Pearl role bored me to death. :( he suffered hard in gen 4 and I felt that he kinda got ignored around that time.
    Last edited by PockyAddict; 27th August 2012 at 11:09 AM.

  10. #25
    I! AM NOT! A MORON! Sith Droideka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    My opinion of Brock is the same of She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named: good concept destroyed by poor Pokémon choice and becoming a piece of the background from Johto on.
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  11. #26
    Tracey's #1 fangirl Kenji-girl's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Editorial Board
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Are people really saying Brock's attention in the anime was on a decline from the original series? I think it's the complete opposite. He was terribly ignored during the original series but he became less of a background character over time. Especially in DP. He had quite a few episodes dedicated to himself during that series. That's where he figured out he wanted to take a step up from being a breeder and become a doctor. Is that not character development? Not to mention he had a big part in the Team Galactic finale with his connection with the legendary Uxie. During other villainous team skirmishes, Brock often did nothing but stand back and let Ash get all the attention. But the Team Galactic finale was an equal partnership between the three main characters. Now of course, out of the three main characters of DP, he was the most ignored. But there's no way I can say that he was more of a foreground character when he was with Ash and Misty.

    The only thing I can agree with is that they did go way too overboard with the flirting in DP. I feel the only reason they increased it from the original series is because the writers thought Max and Croagunk's interventions were funnier than they actually were.

    In the end, I think Brock's character and role were handled very well. Better than any other of Ash's male friends by a landslide. True they could have given him more Pokemon and toned down the flirting gag but he had a lot of good development episodes. I only wish Cilan will get treated as well as he has.
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  12. #27
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji-girl View Post
    Are people really saying Brock's attention in the anime was on a decline from the original series? I think it's the complete opposite. He was terribly ignored during the original series but he became less of a background character over time. Especially in DP. He had quite a few episodes dedicated to himself during that series. That's where he figured out he wanted to take a step up from being a breeder and become a doctor. Is that not character development? Not to mention he had a big part in the Team Galactic finale with his connection with the legendary Uxie. During other villainous team skirmishes, Brock often did nothing but stand back and let Ash get all the attention. But the Team Galactic finale was an equal partnership between the three main characters. Now of course, out of the three main characters of DP, he was the most ignored. But there's no way I can say that he was more of a foreground character when he was with Ash and Misty.

    The only thing I can agree with is that they did go way too overboard with the flirting in DP. I feel the only reason they increased it from the original series is because the writers thought Max and Croagunk's interventions were funnier than they actually were.

    In the end, I think Brock's character and role were handled very well. Better than any other of Ash's male friends by a landslide. True they could have given him more Pokemon and toned down the flirting gag but he had a lot of good development episodes. I only wish Cilan will get treated as well as he has.
    Brock's role diminished after Johto because Ash surpassed him and didn't need a mentor anymore. That's why Brock generally became sidelined during much of AG and DP. Ash took over the mentor role for May and to a lesser extent Dawn, and Brock wound up just being treated as, "the cook" and nothing more.

    Yes he got some nice roles in DP, but it was still too few. DP went on for 191 episodes, and there what what...maybe 10 Brock episodes at the most? It didn't help matters that they only gave him 3 pokemon and his team didn't change at all from 2007 (early DP when Happiny hatched), all the way till 2010. And I don't think I have to mention that Brock rarely battled in the series.

    Lastly, Brock is the main reason the DP trio lacked chemistry. He had virtually no memorable interaction with Dawn, and it felt like the only time he'd talk to her is when he was explaining Ash's battles or something. It really felt like Dawn and Brock were associates rather than real friends, and its a shame. There's a reason why the DP trio was flawed, there was no group chemistry whatsoever...something both the original trio and Hoenn group had, and is now fixed with the BW trio. I liked Brock up till the end of AG, for what its worth.

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    Tracey's #1 fangirl Kenji-girl's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Editorial Board
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I don't believe Brock being Ash's mentor was made into a big deal in the original series either. It's just something that happen that slowly diminished as he matured. Ash was also mentored in a way by Misty's harsh criticism. I don't see how it's relevant to his character. And I disagree with there being no chemistry between Brock and Dawn. I really liked their interaction together.

    He may have had more Pokemon during the original series but that doesn't change the fact that back then everything was about Ash and his Pokemon. The Pokemon Brock had didn't show up a lot and he wasn't shown to to interact with them a lot unlike DP. Call me crazy but I think it's better to have a few Pokemon to interact with regularly than to have a nearly full party just sit in their Poke Balls all the time.

    About him battling, Brock mentioned he'd rather help Pokemon that make them battle so him not doing so that much in DP didn't surprise me nor make me think less of him. To me it just showed that he was concentrating more on becoming a breeder.

  14. #29
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith Droideka View Post
    My opinion of Brock is the same of She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named: good concept destroyed by poor Pokémon choice and becoming a piece of the background from Johto on.
    Its hard to call characters being piece of background, if they got more development and focus than they did in Kanto but i guess we all have different interpretation of what is focus and what isn't.

    Brock had perfectly fine role in this show for supporting character until DP(where he should have got more) receiving more focus on breeding career in Johto, Hoenn and DP compared to Kanto days . Same applies to his pokemon with likes of Steelix, Sudowoodo, Ludicolo, Crobat, Croagunk etc and when i look back i can say he collected impressive and filled with variety pokemon team.

    Was that enough? In my book no, but he gained more than he lost in there.

    Also i never had problems with Misty choice of pokemon, but with unused potential of some of them and i can say i enjoyed in character during OS receiving some great growth and changing for better(especially in second half of Johto and hosos). But yes i can agree how she didn't got enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Brock's role diminished after Johto because Ash surpassed him and didn't need a mentor anymore. That's why Brock generally became sidelined during much of AG and DP. Ash took over the mentor role for May and to a lesser extent Dawn, and Brock wound up just being treated as, "the cook" and nothing more.
    Just because he wasn't so much mentor to Ash anymore, doesn't mean his role became any smaller. He was still caretaker, navigator and most mature person in cast bringing order and settling down conflict between characters. He also had good chemistry with cast still playing of well with Ash, establishing good friendship with May having several memorable moments(involving support, arguing, frustration etc)and he really bonded well with Max who along his side provided tips in pokemon battles, helped Ash about strategies being undrained source of knowledge.

    And while Ash may have been more mature not needing coach on his side anymore, we can still notice Brock helping him out in pokemon training and preparing strategies even in Sinnoh as example with Roark gym, Chimchar and later Infernape showed.

    In later series Brock was less of coach, but writers did more with his career of becoming top breeder, giving out feeling that character is going somewhere, making actual progress. This wasn't only noticeable in learning to prepare new types of pokemon food, but also in exchanging tips and knowledge with other breeders sometimes even going as far to impress them(like Yuma prior to contest battle with May). He received more new pokemon and evolutions compared to Johto which can be manifested in Mudkip, Lotad, Croagunk and Bonsly capture, he had more episodes focusing on himself,. Aside from that writers also started to go further with breeding concept than they did ever before with Ag being first series where Brock got baby pokemon of who he took care of allowing him to display his knowledge and everything he learned putting to test his abilities and talent as pokemon raiser. As Bonsly capture showed, with whole concept being expanded further in DP with Happiny egg.

    Brock in Hoenn wasn't decline from original series, but actual improvement doing more for his story and carer of breeder than writers ever did before.

    Yes he got some nice roles in DP, but it was still too few. DP went on for 191 episodes, and there what what...maybe 10 Brock episodes at the most? It didn't help matters that they only gave him 3 pokemon and his team didn't change at all from 2007 (early DP when Happiny hatched), all the way till 2010. And I don't think I have to mention that Brock rarely battled in the series.
    For character to be considered playing some role and contributing to entertainment, he doesn't need to be center of focus. Brock played fun subrole in several DP episodes which weren't focused on him still contributing to series entertainment.
    Now don't get me wrong, it was nowhere near enough , but he had more focus and role there than some are willing to admit.

    Also having 3 new pokemon was still enough than just one new pokemon he got in Johto(being Pineco, later Foretress) and lack of battling wasn't something which started with Sinnoh series.

    Brock rarely battled ever since Kanto days, with entering tournaments and battling trainers not being in domain of his activities as breeder, He was always mostly about taking care of pokemon and raising them to be in top shape, which was one of reasons why he didn't received as much focus as he should have received, Since writers had problems in increasing someones role and focus, which isn't about battling, training or entering tournaments and competitions in general.

    Lastly, Brock is the main reason the DP trio lacked chemistry. He had virtually no memorable interaction with Dawn, and it felt like the only time he'd talk to her is when he was explaining Ash's battles or something. It really felt like Dawn and Brock were associates rather than real friends, and its a shame. There's a reason why the DP trio was flawed, there was no group chemistry whatsoever...something both the original trio and Hoenn group had, and is now fixed with the BW trio. I liked Brock up till the end of AG, for what its worth.
    Brock worked perfectly fine with original trio and AG cast never being left out, and having enjoyable interactions being proof in itself how he has personality which can adapt to new traveling companions still pulling of entertainment out of it.

    If there was problem with chemistry between DP cast that wasn't Brock fault but lack of focus on group dynamics as whole, with too much emphasis being put on development of Ash and Dawn friendship and their progress as "two stars which progress through show", often leaving Brock out of group interaction.
    Something which was mistake with writers making sure to fix that in BW with no one in BW cast feeling left out. However he had several memorable moments with Ash and Dawn there too, and im surprised people didn't noticed that.

    As character Brock was enjoyable in Sinnoh to me when he got some chance to shine but lack of relevance to plot compared to focus which Ash and Dawn received made his character left out sometimes.However he offered his help on many occasion having several noteworthy moments contrary to some belief in Sinnoh too having some quality character interacting.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 28th August 2012 at 07:51 AM.
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  15. #30
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenji-girl View Post
    I don't believe Brock being Ash's mentor was made into a big deal in the original series either. It's just something that happen that slowly diminished as he matured. Ash was also mentored in a way by Misty's harsh criticism. I don't see how it's relevant to his character. And I disagree with there being no chemistry between Brock and Dawn. I really liked their interaction together.
    So in other words he still had a bigger role in the original series due to the fact that Ash often relied on him, but come around late Johto and onward, that role for Brock was gone.

    He may have had more Pokemon during the original series but that doesn't change the fact that back then everything was about Ash and his Pokemon. The Pokemon Brock had didn't show up a lot and he wasn't shown to to interact with them a lot unlike DP. Call me crazy but I think it's better to have a few Pokemon to interact with regularly than to have a nearly full party just sit in their Poke Balls all the time.
    The problem is he got stuck with the same 3 Pokemon from early 2007 and his team remained the same for the next 3 years! Its like the writers didn't make an effort to make his team stand out more or go through development. He had more evolutions in AG (Lotad and Mudkip), then he did in DP.

    Lastly, let's imagine for a second that Brock left the series at the end of Johto when Misty did. How much of AG or DP would truly change if he wasn't there?

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