Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

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    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Brock/Takeshi is, to date, Ash's longest-standing (human) travelling companion by a wide margin, having travelled with him for a grand total of four regions. Within that time what kind of impact did he have on you and how much did he bring to the show as a character? Did he benefit from being a main character for as long as he was, or did he outstay his welcome for you? How successful were the writers in adapting him to the dynamics of three different main character groupings? Was his interest in being a Pokemon Breeder (ultimately a Pokemon doctor) explored and expanded on sufficiently? Debate the merits of the character and whatever impressions he left on you here.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    - From Kanto-Johto I found him to be quite funny and entertaining, and I missed him in Orange.

    - During AG he was still good, only slightly less memorable than before. He started to get shafted this saga but he never felt left out of the group as a whole. He also had good chemistry with the Hoenn quartet..

    - DP is where it really felt like the writers lost interest in him. Although I loved Croagunk and his pokemon, he really didn't have much of a role this saga outside of the part he played in the Galactic finale. Dawn and Brock had no real chemistry and just acted as associates and he didn't get many episodes.

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    Registered User VTP-Dawkins93's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Within that time what kind of impact did he have on you and how much did he bring to the show as a character?
    Brock remains one of my favourite characters from Pokemon. His running gag of falling in love with every woman he met did get old in the end, but for a good period provided some good comic relief and him being older and more mature added good balance to the groups.

    Did he benefit from being a main character for as long as he was, or did he outstay his welcome for you? Was his interest in being a Pokemon Breeder (ultimately a Pokemon doctor) explored and expanded on sufficiently?
    These two questions are related, so I'll answer them together.

    As much as I like him, he unfortunately outstayed his welcome on the show. Not because he wasn't interesting as a character, but because for a long time he was just "there" and didn't play any active role in the show other than cooking for the group. He got the odd episode to himself where he could show his skills as a breeder and doctor but overall the writers did not expand on that idea enough and that played a big part in Brock becoming a stale character.

    In my opinion, the idea of Pokemon Breeding was destined to fail because it's so ambiguous. The name suggests that it involves the actual process of breeding to Pokemon together, but in the anime being a breeder meant that you just took care of Pokemon and made them as healthy as can be. Perhaps if they made Brock get more involved with taking care of Pokemon besides just feeding them. In hindisght, I wonder why they didn't combine the concepts of Pokemon Contests and Pokemon Breeding. That would have at least given Brock something more to do.

    In the end, I think Brock's status as a main character should have ended at the end of AG. Maybe they could have done it so that his skills were noticed by a Breeding Centre and they offered him a job, or something like that. DP was just a stretch too far for him as a character.

    How successful were the writers in adapting him to the dynamics of three different main character groupings?
    I think Brock had good dynamics with Ash, Misty, May and Max but not with Dawn. He had common interests with those four that he could relate to, but hardly any with Dawn, which is another contributing factor towards him becoming a stale character. In DP, he didn't have a great dynamic with the group, and with Dawn sharing the spotlight with Ash, Brock was pushed further and further into the background.

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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Yeah, at his prime he was one of the funniest and most likeable characters of the show. Its a real shame what happened to him as the series progressed though. Its like with each passing saga he got less interesting than the one before.

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    Subete wo kagayakasu MizuTaipu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I liked Takeshi, but never really adored him. He had some great moments throughout his stay with Satoshi like the Himeka and Marilyn episodes, yet most of the time he's just there aside from going ga-ga over women. What aggravates me most about his character is that he barely got any episodes regarding his aspiration to be a Breeder and just randomly deciding to be a Pokémon Doctor. Satoshi got training episodes while Haruka/Hikari had Appeal practicing episodes, so why didn't Takeshi get episodes throughout Houen and Sinnoh focusing on Breeding?
    Last edited by MizuTaipu; 16th March 2012 at 08:55 PM.

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    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    He was funny and he was very smart. I liked his role only to a degree. He was funny in Johto but when he was bought back, I thought the writers were going to do more for him in the Pokemon and competitive compartment. Then when Hoenn came around, I thought that "This guy really doesn't have anywhere else to go, does he?" It just seemed like with the whole Ash, May and Dawn thing going on, it seemed like he was left out in alot of things. Not only that but his goal which he claimed he was a breeder but he never bred. Or did he?

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    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Yes i liked Brock. His eccentric personality, obsession over girls, irrationality when having to deal with finer things in life being very inexperienced in that aspect while at same time being capable,collected and mature when it comes to pokemon made him likable and intriguing character. He was in my view good character playing strong role(especially in early seasons), guiding Ash helping him to grow into better trainer,giving him many useful tips and coming up with strategies for him providing lot of knowledge for group.
    He was also like older brother to them,taking care of everyone having his share of moments, like competing in breeding contest in Johto,in one of contests,in tag battle tournaments etc. His running gags were quite funny too when it comes to girls,although poor guy never found love.

    Over time Brock became more compassionate and full of understanding compared to early days. We can see that for example in his interactions with younger brother Forrest encouraging him to be good gym leader expressing joy and satisfaction when seeing how he grew in good battler and gym leader(especially after passing test) knowing that he left his former position in good hands.
    During time he traveled with Ash he transformed from at times impulsive guy which had to take care of younger brother and sisters in more level headed and wise person eventually coming to realization what he wants to do with his life, slowly starting to lean toward doctor calling eventually deciding to become one.

    His obsession (sometimes overused) with girls was probably most recognizable thing about Brock being writers way to emphasize on fact how his character, while being calm and stoic being supposed to be someone who "keeps everybody in line" still was quite young and irrational as person having his own struggles and problems to deal with as character being in his never ending quest of finding true love.

    I even liked him in DP and i call bull statement how he "didnt had character in Sinnoh". He did but emphasize on Ash and Dawn roles and relationship, as well neglect weakened his role in cast even more unfortunately. On positive side, Sinnoh fleshed out Brocks character more in aspect of being breeder than older series did being given finally pokemon egg to display his true knowledge and skills raising it to healthy and powerful Chansey. His skills were often recognized among other characters starting to show interest for doctor calling which eventually led to change of his career. He also had several memorable interactions with some characters like Holly from Tag battle tournament, girl from maid cafe etc with his character going through some character development which was manifested in his interactions with family and brother about whole gym crisis tying up his connections with this place.

    Brock had potential and good character, but writers often neglected him being treated like third wheel character and "mommy"of group. His passive goals of being breeder didnt offered many outlets and possibilities to be expanded upon considering how character was never much interested into battling, training or entering competitions. Because of that its much easier to write for coordinators and trainers.
    In all three series he was in he always got the least out of all main characters,minus Max.
    They also made cardinal mistake of keeping him in solidified role of older caretaker and cook of group, never increasing his purpose by giving him character development in some other fields instead of most things only staying on running gags which were overused at times.

    Its a damn shame that writers instead of trying to fix mistakes they did with Brock and expand on his role to make him more interesting and solid character, used easier way and got rid of him like garbage at end of Sinnoh.

    Such decisions dont fix things, with problems being only put under the carpet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    Yeah, at his prime he was one of the funniest and most likeable characters of the show. Its a real shame what happened to him as the series progressed though. Its like with each passing saga he got less interesting than the one before.
    I beg to differ. If Sinnoh was in question i would probably agree to extent, but Brock was far more interesting in Hoenn than he was in Johto. He interacted well with May and Max, got his own starter, some really cool and funny pokemon like Ludicolo and had several noteworthy accomplishments. Like learning how to prepare different kind of food like pokeblocks, fighting TR with Steelix in gym,battling may in contest, starting to be interested in doctor calling, helped in solving several crisis like whole trouble with Spinda or Shiftry displaying his experience and knowledge as breeder etc.

    In Johto while he had some good moments, he was treated pretty bad being often in background. People complain about Misty focus in Johto which at least brought humor and fun interaction, but turn blind eye on Brock who was treated the worst in there hardly interacting with anyone or battling.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 17th February 2012 at 12:34 PM.

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    Registered User Werewolf Hero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    his welcome was wearing thin in Hoenn , but was well worn out in the Sinnoh region.

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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I liked Brock back in Kanto and Johto, but he started to wear off after those two.

    I'm actually pretty glad they replaced him with Cilan

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    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I was never that into Brock to begin with. I liked him in Kanto, didn't miss him in the Orange Island, didn't really mind him in Johto and AG, was bored to tears by him in DP. He really ran out of steam fast for me and just felt unnecessary. That being said, in all sagas, when he got enough focus in an episode, he was usually really enjoyable, though those episodes were few and far between.

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    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    I liked Brock quite a bit throughout his main role in Pokemon. I really feel like he had a great presence that made him enjoyable and fun. While I admit his constant flirting episode in and episode out was overdone at times, I actually found myself laughing quite a bit at it from since I was five to fifteen if that's surprising. I enjoyed his time spent alongside all his traveling companions, I feel Max's interactions with him were some of the funniest Max copying Misty's ear pulling gag and learning the proper way to do the ear pulling and constant strategic talk with Brock was always a treat because when they interact you really get the feeling they're into the conversation and really enjoying themselves. Brock was always there to help but I feel that's just it to "help, support" while that is nice he should have played more non-supportive role more often and I'm glad he did at times. Like battling May in the Gardenia Town contest, winning the Croagunk festival, The team Galactic Uxie and battle plot, the Pokemon Dress-Up convention, having him participate in the Tag Battle as well Summer School stuff, and AG's giving him more personable fun Pokemon, and him teaching Dawn how to heal Pokemon and that ending up being the thing that helped her with Pachirisu and Mamoswine. He also had a tendency to catch a lot of great Pokemon I usually cared for in the game Bonsly, Croagunk, Happiny, and Ludicolo respectively. Bonsly's cry baby behavior and role throughout the BF was great, a bit disappointed it evolved but glad it did since it would have resulted in stunted development, given it's role on the show and screen time, even having it appeal in a contest. It went from being a needy crybaby to learning to eat solid foods to growing into a strong fully grown Pokemon, saluting Brock eat time it came out of it's Pokeball that's truly a nice thank you to Brock's breeding skills if there is anything I would have changed about it's evolution Brock should have defiantly got that Nuzleaf. I felt kinda bad how he got shafted for Croagunk as things went along even when he wanted to be in the Pokemon Dress Up imitation contest, being a Pokemon known for imitation, Croagunk got picked over him. Fake Tears was always hilarious, and I felt Brock had some really great screen time with showing any Pokemon can be cute and valiant by showing Marilyn the light. Which also connects back to his Breeder goal. He defiantly should have caught more Pokemon then just three.

    It's no secret Croagunk is probably one of Brock's best and probably best showcased mascot and normal Pokemon on this whole show. The writers went all out with Croagunk and gave him a lot of personality, with minor things like him only half-poison jabbing Brock. Things like him disliking honey, him blushing when Cynthia grabs his hand, his boxing match against Chingling, feeling good for Pachirisu, his rivalry with Toxicroak, him alongside Brock being the center of an eyecatch, showing he has a bond nearly as deep with Brock as Ash and Pikachu's in the Poketch episode. Even in "Wonder in Malice" a.k.a one of the greatest fillers ever and sort of DP's "Beheeyem, Duosion, and the Dream Thief" Croagunk is sent out alongside Piplup to deal with the phony dream Pokemon. He even is the one to save the day beforehand in the episode since he's the one who jabbed Brock out of his dream hallucination. He played a nice role for mascot in the Darkrai movie when he battled Maki's Infernape in one of the most badass animated scenes ever and was one of the Pokemon to cover Ash, Dawn, and Brock when saving Alamos Town. Seriously the Rise of Darkrai is one of the best Pokemon movies go watch it Croagunk defiantly ended up being more popular then the writers thought, I think they're still even releasing Croagunk merch and Croagunk is returning in the Meoleotta special and he did get a DW C-Gear release as well and event, him gaining a role in the Mystery Dungeon games. I defiantly think that Croagunk should have learned a fourth move given his strength and how much growth he went through as a Pokemon over a long period, Sucker Punch, Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave or something :P

    Brock's Happiny had a personality and ability and development that was sadly underutilized during it's screen time throughout the show while Piplup and Mamoswine were being attention whores. I really liked Happiny a lot, and she was a pretty sweet Allusion to "Bam-Bam" from the Flintstones. The episode she hatched was cute with Nurse Joy's small subplot of having a temporary problem with dealing with Pokemon birth, and those towels and hot water and all that other newborn crap made it feel really realistic and gave a sense of urgency with Happiny's birth, most likely because it was the first egg Pokemon of Sinnoh and a advertisement Pokemon. I liked how he went to the trouble of making it a stone, and her super powers and strength were great with being able to toss Brock and lift boulders and all that. I was disappointed she never used her "Secret Power" after learning damned thing in the Miltank episode, which was an episode designed around showcasing Brock's breeder skills with the Miltank girl, Autumn or Summer some type of season. Her evolving just to save the dying Pichu in Brock's Doctor goal realization episode was nice treat, because again that episode made it all feel so "Real" you really get the feeling this Pichu is about to die with no doctor around until Happiny evolves to save it's life, it was adorable unlike throughout DP were for some reason the writers had a lot of the group Pokemon evolve against "Team Rocket" of all people. That still didn't make up for her crap screen time , but it was nice.

    Of course Brock had his "Breeder" moment and breeder episode we're we would get a some nice development or showcasing of his breeding skills, like in "Sticking With Who Ya' Know" where he's the one who points out that two Pokemon of the same gender shouldn't be going goo goo over each other thus an outside force was most likely influencing things. Making it to the semis of the Tag Battle was great, and his win Holly over in a way. I'm pretty sure he could've won had it not been for the type disadvantage and Farfetch'd being craptastic. I was glad he was sort of the neutral independent force between Ash and Paul warning Paul of his despicable ways because he was a friend to Chimchar and not because of his training methods. Sort of like with Charmander as well. He did it for the Pokemon not to get back at Paul to an extent and you can defiantly tell Ash did it for the Pokemon but at the same time to get back at the trainer. So yeah, I really enjoyed Brock and it sucks he didn't get nearly as much screen time and focus as he should have but, what can you do? Nothing really but, regardless I'm happy with his role and liked him and really miss him as a character and thought he was awesome. I hope to see a special in the future on how things are with him and his Pokemon as his doctor goal.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 17th March 2012 at 10:32 AM.

  12. #12
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    The writers should have done more with him than any of ther other girls who came and went off that show. He's been on the longest, watching Ash and the others, and yet they didn't give him something to do for his goal. I just felt they could have done more for him. Especially in DP where everyone else was involved in something.

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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    Did I enjoy Brock? Absolutely! Brock was always the ideal mentor to Ash and friends and he was the most loyal friend Ash & co ever had. Not only did he provide amazing support for the group in each saga, but he knew so much about Pokemon and always had a good time with them. Sure, his constant crushes sometimes got a little old, but most of them were witty and funny. Perhaps they could have toned it down during DP, I really didn't find the Croagunk poison jab to be all that entertaining because it just seems better to have a person drag him off while saying something funny. I really think the writers can keep going farther with Brock; its just a shame how they failed to give him enough to make him special in DP. If they had real talent, they wouldn't just throw characters out when people start thinking they are boring; they'd instead find new ways to grow the character. It can be as simple as giving a character different interaction and challenges with his/her Pokemon, or more episodes that give the character a prominent role when the gang is in a sticky situation. Main cast shouldn't be just sidekicks; that's when people eventually start begging to move onto someone new. Ash's friends ought to be treated as vital members of the group. That means helping each other out and supporting each others goals, learning and growing with their Pokemon, living through the good and bad times all while continuously developing a close bond together and interacting in various ways. In their world, there is nothing better than traveling the world with your best friends, am I right? So if they have the ability to create a good bond with characters in Pokemon and dream big, I'd like nothing more if the writers someday return Misty and Brock and turn them into the most valuable friends Ash could ever have, and for him to be theirs.
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    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    The difference is the show was never supposed to go on for over 700 episodes. Brock's character wasn't designed to last for 500+ episodes, he was designed to last for maybe about 5 years...which was the run of the original series. That's why he started to become less important during AG and then by DP it felt like he was simply just there.

    Brock had some great moments in DP, but they were too few and far inbetween. I think I'll always have a sense of fondness for the character when he was used well, but overall I feel he shouldn't have lasted as long as he did. My guess is there was just nobody at the start of DP to replace him...Roark on the main cast would be too similar since he's also a rock Gym leader with a Geodude/Onix.

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    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you like Brock/Takeshi's role on the show?

    While anime wasnt supposed to last originally as much as it did, i dont think longer stay had any bearing on character stamina and appeal he brings. Character purpose and story can be expanded justifying longer stay, with writers being pretty successful in doing so with Ash until BW and TR. Otherwise Brock would already lost purpose after Kanto, since pokemon was intended to last initially for only 80 episodes or so. However instead Brock role became strengthened and solidified over the years finding important place in Ash group.

    Brock maybe didnt had straightforward and big role like some other characters did, but he brought to anime neutrality and balance fulfilling valuable tasks which were in long run arguably of crucial importance, guaranteeing him such a long stay.As time went on he became less of coach and mentor but his importance didnt became any smaller, because he represented figure of older brother to Ash and others taking care of them, navigating where should group go, explained basics of pokemon to younger viewers making it easier for them to follow show along with bringing humor and stability to main cast with his passion and various gags.

    His collected and mature personality, jokes, flirting over girls, wise and rational approach brought certain sense of security, bringing order when conflict arises between group giving us often character which had that level of mystery and stability balancing out impulsiveness and tension between cast.
    His dream of becoming top breeder was quiet compared to aims for which trainers or coordinators strive involving less battling but over the years he made notable progress toward his career of breeder learning various new things like learning how to prepare pokeblocks, what kind of food and medicine to prepare for pokemon. Met various trainers and breeders exchanging knowledge and experience like Suzie, Yuma from episode where he battled May in contest, Holly, AJ, old man with Shuckle etc and raised his pokemon in best possible manner. Which can be evidenced through diverse and healthy team being in top form. When you take a look his collection like Steelix, Ludicolo, Crobat, Foretress , Chansey, Sudowoodo, Marshtap etc.you can tell he was successful as breeder reflecting his knowledge and skills in that area.

    Performance in battles being able to hold ground against anyone almost anyone winning contest on first try, coming far in tag battle tournament, ending as runner up in pokemon orienteering etc showed how despite lack of battling and training on consistent basis he had massive amount of knowledge and skill knowing how to turn situation to his advantage.

    When used right Brock was very good character and i dont mind that he stayed for so long,. It was appreciating that writers gave him more time in comparison to other traveling companions which were less lucky leaving after only few years. Because we were able to learn more about his past and motives,we were able to see him grow more doing new things and going in various directions getting some great development in end.If he lasted for only OS, we would never have him bond with Forrest gaining respect for brother, catch half of pokemon he caught and raised, saw him do further steps in breeding career which eventually led to gaining his own first egg displaying skills as breeder to full potential(like he did with Happiny in DP), build up very good interaction with Max, missing many great moments and things Brock brought in AG and to smaller extent in DP.

    I only regret that writers didnt expand more on his breeding career, gave him more focus becoming more important to anime main plot being developed more. As opposite to playing second fiddle to others on sidelines not allowing character to show of his true potential, and with Brock it could have been definitely done more(especially in Sinnoh).

    Perhaps in that case he wouldnt leave after DP, although considering how BW games influenced majority of changes which happened past DP carrying out vibe of "new start" it probably wouldnt play any difference even if he had larger role and bigger popularity. It certainly didnt saved other companions from leaving.

    Personally if by some miracle Brock returns to cast ever again i wouldnt mind. I liked his character, i can understand that his character could be reinvented becoming fresh and interesting with proper writing again and if writers revamp his role providing justification behind Brock return doing something with him,than yes i would like to see him back.Since his newly found carer of being doctor is unexplored territory it certainly provides material to work upon and do something out of it giving room to Brock character to be fleshed out more. It would be even better if Misty came back as well being refreshing to see her after so long who is enjoyable character having unexplored potential and unanswered things to grow further.

    I always thought it would be cool seeing original trio reunited going for one more ride.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 18th March 2012 at 01:18 AM.

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