Which is better: DP or BW? - Page 29

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Thread: Which is better: DP or BW?

  1. #421
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinneth
    but I think that's leagues more believable than Iris and Cilan, where Iris can hardly go an episode without remarking about how annoying Cilan is and/or how boring his passion for his hobbies are.
    Iris' tendency to find Cilan annoying is perfectly believable; surely I'm not the only one who can relate to this. It may not make Iris endearing to some people, but it is a very realistic relationship.

  2. #422
    Gonna be a tl;dr Master! Shinneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    It's not the relationship itself I'm arguing the validity of in this context; it's the logic (lack thereof in my opinion) behind why these two would travel together without Ash, if all Iris ever does is act like Cilan is a pain to be around. She has her own goal to strive for that Cilan has only rarely imparted actual advice, and added with the evidence we've seen that Iris is perfectly capable of going on a journey and progressing on her own, it makes more sense for her to actually be on her own than follow Cilan around just so she can be exasperated by every little thing he does and gain nothing out of the partnership other than having nicer meals to eat (which I don't think she'd consider a huge loss opposed to, say, Ash). It was said earlier that Dawn and Brock would have no reason to travel together simply because they aren't shown to be that close, and while I agree in both cases of Cilan/Iris and Brock/Dawn that they likely wouldn't travel together without Ash anyway, I could sooner see Brock and Dawn traveling together over Cilan and Iris if only because Dawn actually would benefit from companionship (unlike May, she wasn't determined to fly solo for the rest of her journey at the end of DP; extenuating circumstances just made it that way), and unlike Iris, Dawn doesn't blatantly disrespect/disregard the wisdom her senior imparts. Dawn's also not a super self-sufficient wild child who's used to roughing it, so I think she would much rather be taken under Brock's wing.

    In short, I'm saying there's no sense in traveling with someone who clearly gets on your nerves if you have the skills to survive perfectly well on your own. :P

    For the record I only find Iris and Cilan's friendship realistic in the sense that there are plenty of friendship varieties where people only hang out together because of another friend, or more likely in Iris' case because her hanging around people she only rarely acts like a friend to makes her look normal in contrast to her (human) friendless past, which I wish I knew more details about as I suspect Iris' lack of popularity in school was not entirely unjustified.

    Then again, it's also canon to me that Dawn in her youth was drawn to having ugly and bland-looking friends to make her look even more gorgeous by comparison as a side-effect from her demanding mother, so everyone can take what I say with a grain of salt, of course.

    Point is, I believe the BW trio's oh-so "perfect" dynamics are way beyond overblown. Whether or not it's a realistic depiction of friendship or how kids/preteens interact is irrelevant to me, because all that matters to me is whether or not I'm entertained. Since BW's writing has no concept of moderation, what could have been a good mechanic of the BW trio mechanics were pretty much run into the ground. So instead of being entertained, more often than not I was just flat-out annoyed by the interactions. Some people would rather be annoyed than bored by the interactions, but me? I'm the other way around.

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  3. #423
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Why do people act like Iris' snarky behavior and kid comments are serious? Iris' "such a kid" is meant to be nothing but hypocritical because it comes back to Iris' own immaturity, like Iris not knowing what Chargestone Cave was despite criticizing Ash prior about it. It's just a case of taking a simple gag that's suppose to be akin to Cilan's Tasting Time, Brock's flirting, Max's holier-then-thou-ness way too seriously. She doesn't even use ”You're such a kid" much anymore these days. We've seen countless times she cares for Ash and Cilan as well as their Pokemon, she swore to avenge Cilan after Pansage was knocked out by Mizuki's Lilligant. compare Iris' behavior during Ash's first gym to the last gym, there's a noticeable difference. She even went to the trouble of getting snow-geared up for the 7th gym, just because Iris isn't 24/7 nothing but a ball of niceness doesn't mean anything. She got pissed at Shamus over Ash's Tepig and Maya over Ash's Snivy.

    Her snarky behavior is never serious and is played for comedy every time. Iris isn't the malicious bitch she's attempted to be made out to be. Trying to find anything fundamentally wrong about Iris' behavior is ridiculous. She may snark in comedy situations but it's obviously not utilized to hurt anyone's feelings in a serious manner. When Iris' Dragonite got smashed at the WTJC semis she isn't sitting around moaning and bitching, she's very much rooting for Ash and all fired up for his final match. I actually think this Iris "bully" or "vicious" theory might hold some water if we actually saw Ash or anyone being very saddened or upset by her comments. No, it's a case of a little girl teasing another little boy and an older boy. Ash did the same with "Dragon Sneeze".

    Iris is hypocritical, it's humor, but taking it right to the heart?
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 14th November 2012 at 05:07 AM.

  4. #424
    Crimson Fighter Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    @Gotpika; Context is everything broseph. If she insults someone for getting knocked on there ass instead of being sympathetic in her first major appearance which she did its kinda hard to win some of us back which they made no effort to do it feels like we're suppose to take her side. Cartman's hypocritical humor is played for laughs but he still is tortured as hell throughout the series for his actions so much so that I feel sorry for him AND HE'S THE BIGGEST MONSTER EVER. Ash was cocky as hell in his early days but he always got knocked down when his head got to big while Iris got to win the don battle. Donna Noble and Martha Jones are not like because they fight the doctor you would think that I being the Iris hater would agree BUT I DON'T they are my favorite two companions. Because while the Doctor is smug judgmental cheeky and self righteous (still like him though), Ash is basically a puppy you can't get mad a Ash he has not a dark bone in his body. And they try to make of feel sympathy for what I would consider a bitch by bring a meaner bitch.

    The very thing that makes Iris annoying is that she acts rude but no body acts like she does not even the writers. Paul wasn't treated like a hero and that's what made a cool character he was an opponent that was human we weren't suppose to take his side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkara
    Gary reveals that he already has six pokemon. And judging by the pokemon around that area I'm guessing he has a rat a bird two bugs AND anouther bird

  5. #425
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    @Gotpika; Context is everything broseph. If she insults someone for getting knocked on there ass instead of being sympathetic in her first major appearance which she did its kinda hard to win some of us back which they made no effort to do it feels like we're suppose to take her side.
    You're not meant to take her side, you're not meant to take any type of "sides" because it's comedy and not meant to be taken seriously in the same vain as something like, for example, N's philosophy on truth and ideals in challenge toward Alder's philosophy. It's a comedy moment, clearly played for comedic purposes of entertaining kids. Dawn has used Iris' character phrase as well, clearly in joking not as a malicious purpose. Which is one of the reasons I was wondering why people were freaking out over Dawn using "Such a kid" when it's obviously meant to be a joke. Max, Misty, and May would make annoyed remarks about Brock when he did his typical flirting.

    Cartman's hypocritical humor is played for laughs but he still is tortured as hell throughout the series for his actions so much so that I feel sorry for him AND HE'S THE BIGGEST MONSTER EVER. Ash was cocky as hell in his early days but he always got knocked down when his head got to big while Iris got to win the don battle.
    South Park is a comedy show though, he does asshole-ish things because that's his style and forte. Cartman does evil, malicious things daily that nearly kill, endanger, or truly damage his friends in some way. I can't fathom how Iris calling Ash a kid once in a blue moon and calling Cilan a pain when he does his sparkling is bad, like I said Dawn even pointed out Cilan's Tasting Time tediousness when she said "I guess Connoisseurs like to talk just as much as they like food." Cilan's TTs are a session and that's where the comedy in the pain comments stems from, like how he spent most of the battle against Skyla talking about her behavior and taste.

    Donna Noble and Martha Jones are not like because they fight the doctor
    I don't watch DW.

    you would think that I being the Iris hater would agree BUT I DON'T they are my favorite two companions. Because while the Doctor is smug judgmental cheeky and self righteous (still like him though), Ash is basically a puppy you can't get mad a Ash he has not a dark bone in his body. And they try to make of feel sympathy for what I would consider a bitch by bring a meaner bitch.
    I don't watch Doctor Who. ^^;;

    The very thing that makes Iris annoying is that she acts rude but no body acts like she does not even the writers. Paul wasn't treated like a hero and that's what made a cool character he was an opponent that was human we weren't suppose to take his side.
    Except Paul was clearly being made out to be a Villain!Rival. Perhaps it would be best to take a step back and realize Iris for who she is. She only really makes snark comments at Cilan and Ash, these are as "jokes". Jokes, comedy, humor, laughing, not serious insults. Only serious time where I think insults can be taken seriously are in serious manners in serious situations, like Georgia and Burgundy insulting Iris for not being able to control Dragonite and her being shown to be so shaken she doesn't even see a point in firing back or Ash insulting himself for being a weak trainer due to Tepig's quick loss at the hands of Lenora's Lillipup. These are serious, moments like Georgia calling Burgundy a suck ass Connaisseuse who would make a better "Vitamin Drink Connaisseuse" are nothing but in good fun and laughs.

  6. #426
    Crimson Fighter Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    You're not meant to take her side, you're not meant to take any type of "sides" because it's comedy and not meant to be taken seriously in the same vain as something like, for example, N's philosophy on truth and ideals in challenge toward Alder's philosophy. It's a comedy moment, clearly played for comedic purposes of entertaining kids. Dawn has used Iris' character phrase as well, clearly in joking not as a malicious purpose. Which is one of the reasons I was wondering why people were freaking out over Dawn using "Such a kid" when it's obviously meant to be a joke. Max, Misty, and May would make annoyed remarks about Brock when he did his typical flirting.
    I meant I was suppose to take her side in her story moments which is so hard to do when she's so mean in these so called jokes.

    South Park is a comedy show though, he does asshole-ish things because that's his style and forte. Cartman does evil, malicious things daily that nearly kill, endanger, or truly damage his friends in some way. I can't fathom how Iris calling Ash a kid once in a blue moon and calling Cilan a pain when he does his sparkling is bad, like I said Dawn even pointed out Cilan's Tasting Time tediousness when she said "I guess Connoisseurs like to talk just as much as they like food." Cilan's TTs are a session and that's where the comedy in the pain comments stems from, like how he spent most of the battle against Skyla talking about her behavior and taste.
    1. Didn't use comedy as a excuse for Iris' behavior
    2 HOW THOSE THINGS WHAT?

    you would think that I being the Iris hater would agree BUT I DON'T they are my favorite two companions. Because while the Doctor is smug judgmental cheeky and self righteous (still like him though), Ash is basically a puppy you can't get mad a Ash he has not a dark bone in his body. HERE And they try to make of feel sympathy for what I would consider a bitch by EDIT Bringinga meaner bitch.
    I don't watch Doctor Who. ^^;;
    I stop the who stuff at the here
    The very thing that makes Iris annoying is that she acts rude but no body acts like she does not even the writers. Paul wasn't treated like a hero and that's what made a cool character he was an opponent that was human we weren't suppose to take his side.
    Except Paul was clearly being made out to be a Villain!Rival. Perhaps it would be best to take a step back and realize Iris for who she is. She only really makes snark comments at Cilan and Ash, these are as "jokes". Jokes, comedy, humor, laughing, not serious insults. Only serious time where I think insults can be taken seriously are in serious manners in serious situations, like Georgia and Burgundy insulting Iris for not being able to control Dragonite and her being shown to be so shaken she doesn't even see a point in firing back or Ash insulting himself for being a weak trainer due to Tepig's quick loss at the hands of Lenora's Lillipup. These are serious, moments like Georgia calling Burgundy a suck ass Connaisseuse who would make a better "Vitamin Drink Connaisseuse" are nothing but in good fun and laughs.
    That was MYYYYYYYYYYYY point Iris acts like a jerk yet she is made out to be a hero thus I get pissed. I like Paul and he doesn't annoy me because he is villain they try to give Paul reason for his actions but they by NO means condone them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkara
    Gary reveals that he already has six pokemon. And judging by the pokemon around that area I'm guessing he has a rat a bird two bugs AND anouther bird

  7. #427
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    1. Didn't use comedy as a excuse for Iris' behavior
    2 HOW THOSE THINGS WHAT?
    Huh?

    That was MYYYYYYYYYYYY point Iris acts like a jerk yet she is made out to be a hero thus I get pissed. I like Paul and he doesn't annoy me because he is villain they try to give Paul reason for his actions but they by NO means condone them.
    She doesn't act like a jerk, if she does it's played for laughs. She's a BW hero true, but I don't see how that's anything to get pissed over. Cilan acted arrogantly during his battle against Skyla and his ideals were pretty much made out to be the be-all end-all against her.

    I'm not sure what to say at this point. It's made quite obvious in the show that Iris relishes traveling with Ash and Cilan, cheering for Ash hard at his last gym and saying Cilan's "pain-ness" is what makes him so fun to travel with and be around. While she does have her snarky comedy moments, that doesn't really make her wicked or virulent. ._.

  8. #428
    Crimson Fighter Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    1. Didn't use comedy as a excuse for Iris' behavior
    2 HOW THOSE THINGS WHAT?
    Huh?

    That was MYYYYYYYYYYYY point Iris acts like a jerk yet she is made out to be a hero thus I get pissed. I like Paul and he doesn't annoy me because he is villain they try to give Paul reason for his actions but they by NO means condone them.
    She doesn't act like a jerk, if she does it's played for laughs. She's a BW hero true, but I don't see how that's anything to get pissed over. Cilan acted arrogantly during his battle against Skyla and his ideals were pretty much made out to be the be-all end-all against her.

    I'm not sure what to say at this point. It's made quite obvious in the show that Iris relishes traveling with Ash and Cilan, cheering for Ash hard at his last gym and saying Cilan's "pain-ness" is what makes him so fun to travel with and be around. While she does have her snarky comedy moments, that doesn't really make her wicked or virulent. ._.
    1.To the huh your thought was in complete "I can't phathom how X and Y..." what.

    2.How is insulting you when you get knocked on your ass not a dick move.



    MOVING ON! I don't find Burgundy and Georgia so perfect it's even if it's comedic it doesn't make me laugh and it's hard to get into the rivalry when 1. Burgundy is so freaking weak and 2. Iris is just petty as Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkara
    Gary reveals that he already has six pokemon. And judging by the pokemon around that area I'm guessing he has a rat a bird two bugs AND anouther bird

  9. #429
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    2.How is insulting you when you get knocked on your ass not a dick move.
    I assume you're talking about the Woobat scaring Ash into falling in the recent Onix episode? Dawn and Iris didn't mean anything rude by it. Just Ash being a hyperactive kid like he always is.

  10. #430
    Crimson Fighter Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    2.How is insulting you when you get knocked on your ass not a dick move.
    I assume you're talking about the Woobat scaring Ash into falling in the recent Onix episode? Dawn and Iris didn't mean anything rude by it. Just Ash being a hyperactive kid like he always is.
    I meant BW002 first major appearance I mentioned it earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkara
    Gary reveals that he already has six pokemon. And judging by the pokemon around that area I'm guessing he has a rat a bird two bugs AND anouther bird

  11. #431
    Future Seeker HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Cartman's hypocritical humor is played for laughs but he still is tortured as hell throughout the series for his actions so much so that I feel sorry for him AND HE'S THE BIGGEST MONSTER EVER.
    omg

    Iris =/= Cartman.

    They're incomparable. One's a nutjob that would satisfy his revenge by killing the parents of a teenager and making him eat them, who, by the way, didn't get arrested or anything and the other is just a snarky, innocent little 10 year old girl who'd help those in need if she could O_O

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    The very thing that makes Iris annoying is that she acts rude but no body acts like she does not even the writers. Paul wasn't treated like a hero and that's what made a cool character he was an opponent that was human we weren't suppose to take his side.
    If Iris was a real person I wouldn't think that she was being rude Why does nobody act like she does? Because, well, she isn't. Paul was rude by thrash talking everybody who wasn't an adult. What he said, he meant. That's why Ash went into a depression that he shouldn't have gone in in the first place. When Paul beat him, he didn't care. If Iris was there, there's no doubt in my mind that she would have helped like Dawn did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    2.How is insulting you when you get knocked on your ass not a dick move.
    I assume you're talking about the Woobat scaring Ash into falling in the recent Onix episode? Dawn and Iris didn't mean anything rude by it. Just Ash being a hyperactive kid like he always is.
    I meant BW002 first major appearance I mentioned it earlier.
    Well, I mean, when Iris and Ash first met, Ash had thrown a Pokeball at her xD

    Why wouldn't she complain xD?

  12. #432
    I! AM NOT! A MORON! Sith Droideka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Okay, the real problem with Iris' hypocrisy is that it was, at least early on, very annoying. Keep in mind everyone was coming from a series where Ash had just taken out two legendary Pokémon just barely. And then the initial stuff from BW came in and people were enthused- and then we got Pikachu's depowerment, losing to a rookie, Kanto-lite, Ash being 10, and by the time Iris won the Don tournament I'd say that plenty of people were fed up with the way the show was going. Getting all those little gifts mean that people look harder at what she's doing and what she gets, so just because she's a hypocrite and just because it might be humorous doesn't change the fact that many people, myself included, have a low opinion of Iris from the early days, making her struggle to likability that much harder.

    No one likes a hypocrite.
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  13. #433
    You think you're bad, don't ya? Karamazov's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Peeps, just a reminder, group dynamics and characters and the like can be part of the topic. But this is about discussing DP and BW in comparison and contrasts. It's not an Iris debate.

    "Playing around?" Wrong.

  14. #434
    Future Seeker HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith Droideka View Post
    Okay, the real problem with Iris' hypocrisy is that it was, at least early on, very annoying.
    I didn't find it annoying. It wasn't overused or anything. It's not like she used it the 5 times per episode people are saying she did and it's easy to ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith Droideka View Post
    Keep in mind everyone was coming from a series where Ash had just taken out two legendary Pokémon just barely. And then the initial stuff from BW came in and people were enthused- and then we got Pikachu's depowerment, losing to a rookie, Kanto-lite, Ash being 10, and by the time Iris won the Don tournament I'd say that plenty of people were fed up with the way the show was going.
    I still don't see what the big deal is, but okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith Droideka View Post
    Getting all those little gifts mean that people look harder at what she's doing and what she gets, so just because she's a hypocrite and just because it might be humorous doesn't change the fact that many people, myself included, have a low opinion of Iris from the early days, making her struggle to likability that much harder.
    Iris isn't a hypocrite. I need examples of this hypocrisy that you speak of.

  15. #435
    oh The Network's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    ^Try reading the post directly above yours, Human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Kishore View Post
    Diamond & Pearl's Problem was that it was too long.
    But everything else was great .
    While ''Best Wish's'' just Pathetic with No story Plot ,Meaningless Glorification ,No good rival , No proper character development , and Stupid Boring filler.
    We should just call this series ''Worst Wishs'' !
    I didn't think DP's pace was that bad, though the rest I'll give you.

    Add "boring" at the end and that list is perfect~
    Phoenixphlare likes this.

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