Which is better: DP or BW? - Page 12

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Thread: Which is better: DP or BW?

  1. #166
    Registered User Trainer Gabriel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampharos King View Post
    If you really want to get technical about power and strength in tandem with experience, Ash lost against quite a number of gym leaders in AG and DP despite the experience that he had obtained after the end of the previous league competitions.Eventually there is a point when one has to say that experience is not the only deciding factor for a battle, especially when pokemon choices are crucially important for a victory or defeat.
    I never denied that experience is not the only factor in determining who would win a matchup but that's no excuse for how easily Trip works Ash in battles.

    Even if a few of his pokemon did evolve in between the first two battles, Trip did earn at least two gym badges before his rematch against Ash. One of those gym badges was earned by defeating Lenora, an opponent that Ash was initially unable to defeat with his own roster of pokemon a few episodes later.
    Which only shows how forcibly overpowered he is to shoe-horn him to Ash's level.

    Eventually one has to accept that Trip is far beyond the novice that he was introduced to be;
    Only because he's forced to be so he can compete with Ash. I can accept his being above a novice level but being able to not just beat Ash, but pwn him harder than Paul ever has? No. Should not happen. That's just downgrading Ash's abilities.

    Ash also managed to defeat more experienced trainers and gym leaders within a short period of time on his first journey.
    Which means he should at least be able to battle Trip more evenly.

    If one is able to defeat gym leaders, then one is clearly not a "novice."
    True enough, but that doesn't mean he should be able to pwn his rivals too incredibly easily, when one of his rivals is doing the same thing.

    Just because DP had set the bar higher with gym leaders than ever before, it does not mean that one isn't a decent trainer when fighting and winning against gym leaders in other regions.
    I don't see how losing to three out of eight gym leaders (two of which were free battles) raised the bar with gym leaders in DP.

    Yes, but it was important to remember that Pikachu did have a disadvantage in the first match as a result of interacting with Zekrom. Pikachu was unable to use his Electric-type moves and was exhausted rather quickly when he tried to use his other attacks,
    Being unable to use electric attacks should not have nerfed Pikachu so much that he would have been unable to defeat a Pokemon with no experience. Pikachu could still fight well with his other moves and that should've been the only thing that mattered since electric attacks have only half the normal effect on Grass-types, anyway.

    but I wish not to get any further with changes in Pikachu's relative strength from DP to BW.
    Then we don't have to.

    Pikachu did lose quickly to Servine after the pokemon evolved in between the second battle.
    Just another example of how forced Trip's character is, by having a Servine so fast.

    Pikachu lost against many pokemon in all of these series, and not just BW.
    Never before has Pikachu ever been defeated so easily by any Pokemon owned by a trainer for a short time. The only time that comes close is with Casey's Chikorita, and that wasn't really even a real battle and there's no telling that Pikachu would have lost for sure, anyway. BW is an all-time low for Pikachu in the beginning.

    We don't know what Trip does off-screen because the series isn't centered around his character. We can only assume that Trip has done a lot more training and caught a lot more pokemon than Ash did in the same timeframe. Ash was too preoccupied with having to interact with other characters and to stop TRio to properly train his pokemon.
    Doesn't make Trip a good rival just because fans have to use that excuse to make him able to match Ash.

    Notice that the only pokemon that Ash used that were able to last against Trip in the second match were those that already had experience in battling. Pidove, Tepig, and Oshawott--pokemon that Ash did not truly train at that point--were horribly inexperienced and fell rather quickly.
    Yet Pikachu only Ko'ed a Tranquill, who is a Normal/Flying-type, and only after it had already defeated two of Ash's Pokemon (and rather easily if I might add); and Snivy only KO'ed her evolved form by using Atrract and then spamming attacks until Servine was out. Hardly what I would call impressive feats. All that battle really did was make Trip look like we was leagues above Ash.

    And that, my friend, is exactly how Trip makes Ash look like a noob. And my whole original point.

    Evolution is usually an indication of improvement and strength.
    Never said otherwise but even evolution doesn't guarantee success either.

    Yes, it was a way for Trip to have an advantage over Ash before the battle started. Yes, it was done rather early for a rival character, and especially for a novice.
    Glad we're in agreement on that.

    But how else can Trip be an interesting and lasting rival for Ash if he didn't have at least that much of an advantage over his opponent?
    Not make him a rookie? Make him the secondary rival so he can safely be the underdog?

    The most important element to their relationship is that Trip can provide a challenge for Ash, despite Ash's experience in previous regions and despite the fact that Trip was introduced as a novice.
    A forced challenge kills the tension of the rivalry.

    Paul was introduced in the same way, and we assumed that he was a beginner trainer also.
    Fans' fault, not the writers'. I, myself, was never convinced that Paul was a rookie and if I didn't already know that Trip was, I wouldn't think he was either.

    The only reason why he was given an excuse for his initial victories was that he was later revealed to have "just as much experience" as Ash a few dozen episodes later.
    And because he had a more original character and never beat Ash as easily as Trip has (sans Turtwig/Grotle vs Honchkrow, which was understandable given the circumstances). At least when Ash lost to Paul, he managed to give him a challenge before going down, and Paul's victories were more excusable than Trip's; with Trip, the battles mostly feel too one-sided in Trip's favor, and with little sense of a real rivalry between them.

    I honestly don't know why we're discussing all of this when most of your points still don't negate the fact that Trip is written to make Ash look like a newbie when he realistically shouldn't, no matter what the forced reasons may be.
    Last edited by Trainer Gabriel; 5th December 2011 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #167
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    As much as I wanted to like it, Best Wishes is simply nowhere as good as DP was.

    We're now 60 episodes in and BW has relatively no plot whatsoever. The episodes between the Gyms are almost all filler again. Iris and Cilan, even though I like them, aren't really getting much development on an episode to episode basis.

    Trip is the worst rival ever, and I am beginning to wonder if we'll see much of Iris/Cilan's rivals at all. The villains were also the best part of DP, while here they're non-existent.
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  3. #168
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    I still thought DP was better even though I basically spammed the forums with my Piplup trolling. The only reason I watch BW is because Ash is still in it.

  4. #169
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Dp Is much better because,
    1)Ash was experience pokemon trainer there.
    2) Ash's main rival was Paul who happen to just as experience as Ash. Unlike Bw series Ash wasn't inferior to a Rocky & called ''a Hillbilly'' by him in the whole series and Ash didn't had to struggle to gain that Rocky's respect .
    I mean, Ash own home region is being insulted by this ''know at all'' rocky called Trip and we have it endure it until Unova league start cause Writer doesn't know how to create a great competition in Anime .
    I know what he doing ! He want us to hate Trip. He want us to hate Trip so much that it create A Drive in us to see Trip beaten by Ash.
    And writer believe ''This Drive'' gonna make people watch this show until the end no matter how much it suck.
    It's is the same plan they use with Paul u know.
    But it have become too old.
    But at least Paul wasn't a total Rocky & he never insulted Ash's home region & its people.
    Plus it was more focus on Battling & Training .
    Not to mention the Gym battle were more fun back then then .
    Plus Ash character was farther develop there, His character didn't get reset.
    So DP was fine. I hope this stupid BW series end as soon as possible because I can't watch 4 year of Trip calling Ash a ''Hillbilly'' & People of his home region "The Bonnie"'
    To be honest, I will stop watching pokemon If Ash get beaten & farther Insulted by Trip & won't watch it until Unova League start
    Last edited by Hurricane Kishore; 14th December 2011 at 09:10 AM.

  5. #170
    A Heart of Steel Torterrius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    DP is clearly the best series of them all. It was pretty much the culmination of all of Ash's years of development and growth. In Kanto? He pretty won his badges by other means than true victory, except in a few cases. In Johto? Meh, it got better, and was just a stepping stone in the pond to better things. In Hoenn? This one was all about May and Contests, in my opinion. She got the majority of the rivals, and besides, the Grand Festival always happens first. Not because it is less important, but because the writers couldn't think to postpone it. They had to add rivals in for Ash before he reached Ever Grande. Unova? Ash, for all intents and purposes, got reset. Yuck.

    Sinnoh? Perfect. Ash started off strong enough. He tied Paul to start and was good 'ol Ash, with all of the experience behind him. Then, Paul's way of training new Pokemon put him over Ash's way of training new Pokemon, despite being practically heartless, and Paul clearly was portrayed the better Trainer. As we all know: this was most obviously the best rivalry to date. Paul was not into fanfare like Gary. He insulted Ash's ability and talent (unlike Trip). Ad we truly wanted Ash to beat him. The writer's successfully teased us all the way. Dawn's development was fantastic as well. Having a Contest/Gym inner conflict with Nando bred depth into the concept of Pokemon. Dawn's slump and eventual resurgence, and Ash's battle development thanks to her and vice versa gave us a reason to believe. Having Zoey win and keep Dawn from becoming a Mary Sue was good writing. Having Barry as a lesser rival to Ash offset the underdog theme, and kept us all buoyed. I did not like the following: Ash facing all of his old friends in combat one after the other. Yuck. Too Mary Sue-ish. That, and having Tobias stacked with Legendaries. Of course, Ash beating said Darkrai, and having Pikachu tie with a Latios gave him extra strength. Oh, and the battle with Paul, forgot that: the obvious culmination of the series. Oh, and Ash finishing in the Final Four. He's progressed higher in the ranks for a time now, and I just hope they don't reset that record in BW.

    Yep, that's my piece.
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  6. #171
    #1 2NE1 fan~ 투 애니원's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    DP. Better storyline, character development, battles etc. BW is just a mess.

  7. #172
    Registered User The Fighting Misty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    60 eps into DP, I was really interested in what direction Paul's character would go, I loved Hunter J, the Galactic stuff was starting to show promise, and Ash's Sinnoh team was starting to take shape. Some of Dawn's early Contests were interesting, particularly when she was going through her losing streak. Zoey and Kenny might have been bores, but this early on the Contests still had some magic in them and Piplup wasn't that over used yet.

    With BW I feel like I only like Cilan and a few of the recurring characters who barely show up. Ash's BW team is a little better for me now, but not great.

    Its just too bad the DP trio had no chemistry. Its the only thing holding DP back from being almost all enjoyable.

  8. #173
    Crimson Fighter Phoenixphlare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Best wishes makes Ash look like a bitch so DP.

  9. #174
    Dawnboy Mega Charizard X's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    DP is WAY better than BW. BW is the worst saga so far imo because of how much of a downgrade it is from DP.
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  10. #175
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    Eh, I'll have to give it to DP. Though I would say AG beats both of them, DP just had the better battles, character development and ongoing plots with Chimchar/Team Galactic/Contests. Also even wish Ash rotating in BW the writers still can't get the whole "screen-time" thing anywhere near down. Ash, Iris and Cilan have good chemistry though.

  11. #176
    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    D/p because I am sick of "you are such a kid" or a noob telling ash, "its basic!". Trip is just a poor attempt at recreating paul, cilan is okay but dawn >> iris, who is more annoying than interesting. The faster pace of b/w is the only thing which appeals to me, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  12. #177
    Because I can. Caseydia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    It seems like DP is more better according to the polls, but like some others say there are a few things that I like about BW as well as DP. You can agree or disagree.

    BW-

    More Pokemon catching
    Pokemon personality rise
    Group chemistry is friendly
    Everyone has a rival
    Cilan is the active counterpart to Ash
    Team Rocket seems more serious
    Faster pace series

    DP-

    Great battles
    Character personalities
    Rival interactions
    Dawn active counterpart to Ash
    Ash's personality
    Team Galactic
    Sinnoh Elite Four

  13. #178
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    I'm not even going to ask for Team Plasma to appear.

    But wynaut Cheren *sob sob*

  14. #179
    ★ Pokémon Proffesor ☆
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    DP because I like the creation trio, and the plot was designed around Pokemon history. B/W was just some guy with a split personality or something... When it comes to Pokemon, pretty much equal. When it comes to games, DP.
    Team Plasma just bothers me. Why did they want everyone to release their Pokemon? More importantly, why are they all Irish?

  15. #180
    Registered User Shadow Victini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is better: DP or BW?

    ^What makes them Irish, just asking?
    /sort of clueless

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