Thread: Pokémon X & Pokémon Y: Characters and Plot

Originally Posted by BigBadButterfree

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

Originally Posted by Ninfia

@Poko907; I believe this thread is for discussion of Characters such as the Rival as well as plot, so I think this thread will do.

Id like to see more than 8 gyms again. I just want more challenges. I feel like 8 isnt enough.

Since Gary, Barry, and Trip (not to mention a few CODs) have pretty much confirmed that there are clearly more than eight gyms per region, I wouldn't see it as unrealistic if there were more than eight gyms. Though, I don't really see it happening just because of the way it's always been (being just eight and then the E4). Maybe as an after-game thing similar to Johto, but in the same region.

I really liked that about SoulSilver. After beating the game, you get to go fight 8 more gym leaders, and beat a whole different game!

I had an I idea; I thought it would be cool if there were different gyms based on which version of the game you're playing. For example, a player with X would have bug and rock-type gyms, while a player with Y would have poision and psychic-type gyms. Unfortunatly, that would still mean that there were only 8 gyms per game, but I though it would be a nice feature as a way to make the games more different.

Originally Posted by Sakuraa

Originally Posted by BigBadButterfree

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

Originally Posted by Ninfia

@Poko907; I believe this thread is for discussion of Characters such as the Rival as well as plot, so I think this thread will do.

Id like to see more than 8 gyms again. I just want more challenges. I feel like 8 isnt enough.

Since Gary, Barry, and Trip (not to mention a few CODs) have pretty much confirmed that there are clearly more than eight gyms per region, I wouldn't see it as unrealistic if there were more than eight gyms. Though, I don't really see it happening just because of the way it's always been (being just eight and then the E4). Maybe as an after-game thing similar to Johto, but in the same region.

I really liked that about SoulSilver. After beating the game, you get to go fight 8 more gym leaders, and beat a whole different game!

I had an I idea; I thought it would be cool if there were different gyms based on which version of the game you're playing. For example, a player with X would have bug and rock-type gyms, while a player with Y would have poision and psychic-type gyms. Unfortunatly, that would still mean that there were only 8 gyms per game, but I though it would be a nice feature as a way to make the games more different.

The reason I didn't like that with Drayden and Iris was because it ruined who was the canonical 8th gym-leader, and the sequels didn't really help with that. So if the entire gym is changed depending on the version, then which is the canon standard 8-gyms for the region?

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

The reason I didn't like that with Drayden and Iris was because it ruined who was the canonical 8th gym-leader, and the sequels didn't really help with that. So if the entire gym is changed depending on the version, then which is the canon standard 8-gyms for the region?

They're both canon. That's the thing with a split/parallel universe :/

Though if you really want only one then we'll just say Drayden.

Originally Posted by Cerony

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

The reason I didn't like that with Drayden and Iris was because it ruined who was the canonical 8th gym-leader, and the sequels didn't really help with that. So if the entire gym is changed depending on the version, then which is the canon standard 8-gyms for the region?

They're both canon. That's the thing with a split/parallel universe :/

Though if you really want only one then we'll just say Drayden.

Yeah, I agree with Cerony in that both can be considered canon. Besides this isn't much different from Ruby and Sapphire having different main vilinous teams. Or Diamond/Pearl where in one there's a statue that mentions Dia, while the other mentions Pal. Or later when Cyrus summons Dialga in one version and Palkia in another. There's also the concept of version exclusive Pokemon. In Unova in the black version there are wild Gothita on route 5, but in white there are Solosis. The one you consider more canon is based on which version you have.

Originally Posted by Sakuraa

Originally Posted by Cerony

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

The reason I didn't like that with Drayden and Iris was because it ruined who was the canonical 8th gym-leader, and the sequels didn't really help with that. So if the entire gym is changed depending on the version, then which is the canon standard 8-gyms for the region?

They're both canon. That's the thing with a split/parallel universe :/

Though if you really want only one then we'll just say Drayden.

Yeah, I agree with Cerony in that both can be considered canon. Besides this isn't much different from Ruby and Sapphire having different main vilinous teams. Or Diamond/Pearl where in one there's a statue that mentions Dia, while the other mentions Pal. Or later when Cyrus summons Dialga in one version and Palkia in another. There's also the concept of version exclusive Pokemon. In Unova in the black version there are wild Gothita on route 5, but in white there are Solosis. The one you consider more canon is based on which version you have.

Technically, DP and RS each have a canon third version. So there really is no Dialga or Palkia statue, only one with no nameplate. And there were always two villainous teams in Hoenn, not one. Version differences are usually solved by the third version, which BW didn't have. So I guess Drayden is canonically the 7th leader and Iris is the champion, but it just causes a bit of confusion with so many differences between the paired versions and no single third version to clear it up.

Originally Posted by CynthiaLover

I just thought of something. How much do you want to bet Cynthia will make an appearance in this gen? She's made an appearance in every main stream game since D/P, so there's probably a good chance she'll pop up eventually in the game (probably post-game). Not that I would complain about it. I would love to see her, Spiritomb, Lucario, and Garchomp in 3D. Any thoughts about it?

I have always loved Cynthia too, just cause shes always there and shes just kinda become the default world champion because shes just everywhere doing everything. I would really like to see the PWT in the anime so we can finally see whos the strongest trainer in the pokeworld, but im getting off topic. I dont think that this new region will be where her home is. That comment she made in platinum about "even the regions a secret!" seems to imply that the region is an unknown place, this gen 6 region will definitely be inhabitted and a "known" place and not some distant secluded anccient civilisation that i imagine cynthia wanting to live near.

On a seperate note. Black and White started out really ambiguous considering all its really deep meaning. like how reshiram is fire because thats the ancient energy to contrast zekroms modern electric energy, and the future people work for ideals but past people believe in truths. and then the nature technology dichotomy was so thorough. What im trying to say is that we got none of this from the names and the logos, so i dont think that genetics is all there is to this story.

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

Technically, DP and RS each have a canon third version. So there really is no Dialga or Palkia statue, only one with no nameplate. And there were always two villainous teams in Hoenn, not one. Version differences are usually solved by the third version, which BW didn't have. So I guess Drayden is canonically the 7th leader and Iris is the champion, but it just causes a bit of confusion with so many differences between the paired versions and no single third version to clear it up.

You're missing the point. So what if RS/DP had a canon third version? B/W weren't games that would have differences reconciled by a third version, because those games are presented as alternate realities of each other.

In one reality, Route 4 became a fully developed city, Drayden was the 8th gym leader, and Iris became Champion. In another reality, development in Route 4 was abandoned, Iris had a chance to become gym leader before becoming Champion. There was no need for a "third version" because these events weren't presented as contradictory within a single universe, but were presented as differing events between alternative universes.

Also, when you compare the dialogue between both versions:

In Black
"<player>, I'll be waiting for your challenge at the Pokémon Gym!"

In White


"Iris, you go and be <player>'s opponent at the Pokémon Gym." "What will it accomplish to separate the worlds of people and Pokémon? The way we live now, with different beings understanding and forgiving each other, is much richer. That's my belief."

Notice that in White, Drayden tells Iris to be the PC's opponent? While no mention of Iris' status as gym leader is made in Black, one can conclude that Drayden and Iris were both serving as gym leaders of the gym, and that the difference between the Black Universe and White Universe is who Drayden decided would test the PC's ability, with Drayden choosing himself in Black, but choosing Iris in White.

Nothing in the dialogue suggests that one was the gym leader, and the other was not.

Originally Posted by The Outrage

Originally Posted by Team Gaara

Technically, DP and RS each have a canon third version. So there really is no Dialga or Palkia statue, only one with no nameplate. And there were always two villainous teams in Hoenn, not one. Version differences are usually solved by the third version, which BW didn't have. So I guess Drayden is canonically the 7th leader and Iris is the champion, but it just causes a bit of confusion with so many differences between the paired versions and no single third version to clear it up.

You're missing the point. So what if RS/DP had a canon third version? B/W weren't games that would have differences reconciled by a third version, because those games are presented as alternate realities of each other.

In one reality, Route 4 became a fully developed city, Drayden was the 8th gym leader, and Iris became Champion. In another reality, development in Route 4 was abandoned, Iris had a chance to become gym leader before becoming Champion. There was no need for a "third version" because these events weren't presented as contradictory within a single universe, but were presented as differing events between alternative universes.

Also, when you compare the dialogue between both versions:

In Black
"<player>, I'll be waiting for your challenge at the Pokémon Gym!"

In White


"Iris, you go and be <player>'s opponent at the Pokémon Gym." "What will it accomplish to separate the worlds of people and Pokémon? The way we live now, with different beings understanding and forgiving each other, is much richer. That's my belief."

Notice that in White, Drayden tells Iris to be the PC's opponent? While no mention of Iris' status as gym leader is made in Black, one can conclude that Drayden and Iris were both serving as gym leaders of the gym, and that the difference between the Black Universe and White Universe is who Drayden decided would test the PC's ability, with Drayden choosing himself in Black, but choosing Iris in White.

Nothing in the dialogue suggests that one was the gym leader, and the other was not.

Yes, I know. I understand it~ Thanks~

Having more than 8 Gyms?? Interesting, but in my opinion I do not think this will ever change. I think a more likely scenario is that they will allow us to re battle the Gym leaders Post Elite Four, like they have with a couple of previous games. It is an interesting idea though.

Originally Posted by AceTogeTrainer

Originally Posted by CynthiaLover

I just thought of something. How much do you want to bet Cynthia will make an appearance in this gen? She's made an appearance in every main stream game since D/P, so there's probably a good chance she'll pop up eventually in the game (probably post-game). Not that I would complain about it. I would love to see her, Spiritomb, Lucario, and Garchomp in 3D. Any thoughts about it?

I have always loved Cynthia too, just cause shes always there and shes just kinda become the default world champion because shes just everywhere doing everything. I would really like to see the PWT in the anime so we can finally see whos the strongest trainer in the pokeworld, but im getting off topic. I dont think that this new region will be where her home is. That comment she made in platinum about "even the regions a secret!" seems to imply that the region is an unknown place, this gen 6 region will definitely be inhabitted and a "known" place and not some distant secluded anccient civilisation that i imagine cynthia wanting to live near.

On a seperate note. Black and White started out really ambiguous considering all its really deep meaning. like how reshiram is fire because thats the ancient energy to contrast zekroms modern electric energy, and the future people work for ideals but past people believe in truths. and then the nature technology dichotomy was so thorough. What im trying to say is that we got none of this from the names and the logos, so i dont think that genetics is all there is to this story.

...but Zekrom's game was the one with all of the "past" stuff and Reshiram's game was the one with all of the high-tech stuff. I don't see where you're getting at. Sure, it was supposed to be about nature and technology, but your theory doesn't really make sense.

And CyntiaLover, CYNTHIA IS EVERYWHERE.
The new region is probably far away from the other regions, because the routes seem to start back at 1 again instead of picking up where BW or DP left off. Cynthia may have a private island for herself.