Thread: (Mod Note: Read First Post! Updated 6/1/13) Game Freak "expanding Pokémon world"

Originally Posted by Joshawott

You keep on talking about the Wi-Fi distributions as if every Mythical Pokémon was. Sure, Victini was given out over Wi-Fi, but during the year where 3 Mythical Pokémon were released, only one of them was a Wi-Fi distribution.

Pardon? Half of the event legendaries were revealed early due to Wi-Fi distributions. Victini being featured in Movie 14 has to do with the fact that Keldeo wasn't revealed in 2011, and Genesect's Wi-Fi event explains why it was distributed not long after Keldeo and Meloetta.

Things would have been more balanced had Meloetta debuted in 2011, which could have actually worked by simply associating its short with Movie 14. But they preferred to release two movie versions and distribute Zekrom and Reshiram instead.

In the same way that me saying "I drove to work" is a more convenient way of saying "I like butter on my toast" right? They're two completely different things.

Masuda would never admit to deliberately holding back features, so your point is moot.

Also, improved Wi-Fi features? Are you kidding me? It's the same as Black/White. The only difference is a 1 hour punishment for people who disconnect (which hasn't helped matters at all).

I was obviously referring to the features introduced in Black and White - namely the Global Link (not necessarily the Dream World), Wi-Fi tournaments and Random Match. We aren't talking about a brand new approach here; I, for one, had expected to see such features in Generation IV.

And graphics? Not really. I actually thought HeartGold/SoulSilver looked better.

The animated sprites, 3D overworld and camera placement are generally viewed as definite improvements.

Only thing that HGSS did better then BW/B2W2 are the frakin ambient sounds all over the place, and that's it.

Originally Posted by Silktree

Originally Posted by Joshawott

You keep on talking about the Wi-Fi distributions as if every Mythical Pokémon was. Sure, Victini was given out over Wi-Fi, but during the year where 3 Mythical Pokémon were released, only one of them was a Wi-Fi distribution.

Pardon? Half of the event legendaries were revealed early due to Wi-Fi distributions. Victini being featured in Movie 14 has to do with the fact that Keldeo wasn't revealed in 2011, and Genesect's Wi-Fi event explains why it was distributed not long after Keldeo and Meloetta.

Things would have been more balanced had Meloetta debuted in 2011, which could have actually worked by simply associating its short with Movie 14. But they preferred to release two movie versions and distribute Zekrom and Reshiram instead.

But why is the question. Especially when they had seemingly planned to make Reshiram and Zekrom available in White 2 and Black 2 respectively.

Also, Genesect's Wi-Fi event explains why it was distributed soon after Keldeo and Meloetta...how? They could have - and hell, should have, waited for the movie in 2013. If they wanted a Wi-Fi event soon after launch, they could have distributed Keldeo or Meloetta (especially as Keldeo was only a ticket pre-order gift)...at least they were relevant.

In the same way that me saying "I drove to work" is a more convenient way of saying "I like butter on my toast" right? They're two completely different things.

Masuda would never admit to deliberately holding back features, so your point is moot.

I swear at some point that he actually did. Like, how they'll have a Battle Frontier in one game but not the next, so they can add it into a third version.

Also, improved Wi-Fi features? Are you kidding me? It's the same as Black/White. The only difference is a 1 hour punishment for people who disconnect (which hasn't helped matters at all).

I was obviously referring to the features introduced in Black and White - namely the Global Link (not necessarily the Dream World), Wi-Fi tournaments and Random Match. We aren't talking about a brand new approach here; I, for one, had expected to see such features in Generation IV.

Yeah, you totally expected to see the Dream World in Generation IV, despite the idea not crossing our minds until Generation V. You could argue that Wi-Fi tournaments and random match-up were inspired by the increase in competitive play that occurred during Generation IV (hell, it was the first generation where the UK had a World Championships qualifier). Besides, random match up was introduced in Battle Revolution, which was Generation IV.

And graphics? Not really. I actually thought HeartGold/SoulSilver looked better.

The animated sprites, 3D overworld and camera placement are generally viewed as definite improvements.

*looks at the title screens of HeartGold and SoulSilver*
Animated Sprites? Yeah, they were pretty cool (although you could say that were just a slight increase on the already existing animations). And camera placement? I wouldn't call it a "definitive" improvement. They were a really small thing, like the added textures in HGSS.

Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena

I think they've had plenty of time...there's a decent amount of 3DS games out now that use it to acceptable levels of its potential, there's no excuse GameFreak should have for not being able to create a great game.

You don't know anything about a game development, eh?

I don't get what you mean.

Why should GameFreak be unable to put out a decent 3DS game when other developers have already done so? They're a decent sized corporation with multiple employees who can clearly juggle different projects at once, considering how we had Platinum, Heart Gold/Soul Silver, and Black and White released back-to-back over the course of just three years, and I don't see how my knowledge of game development should be questioned for expecting they should be able to create a decent 3DS entry at this point in time?

Because
- HG/SS main game use the same engine as Platinum, it's not the whole work again. The biggest work was for designers, and Pokéthlon.
- Same between BW and B2W2. (Also, several maps were reused)
- Even between gen IV and V some stuff, as internal file formats, is common. Developing a 3DS game could be a completely new task.
- If the next gen is for 3DS, it's very likely it will include 3D models for Pokémon and/or characters. Way harder than sprites.

If GF was able to release 4 games in a row (counting HGSS as one, BW as one, B2W2 as one), it's because they had some work done. Now we're jumping to another platform. So, no, they haven't had plenty of time. I'm almost sure they're already working on 3DS games, but expecting GF to have them ready right tomorrow, it's unrealistic.

No one's expecting them to, most people are reasonably expecting a late summer, early-fall release, which I think is a decent amount of time. I'm sure they started on Gen VI stuff relatively soon after Gen V was released.

Because
- HG/SS main game use the same engine as Platinum, it's not the whole work again. The biggest work was for designers, and Pokéthlon.
- Same between BW and B2W2. (Also, several maps were reused)

Doesn't that sort of help my point though? BW to BW2 wasn't a lot of work, which means they had plenty of time to get started on Gen VI. They also hired new 3D modelers around BW's release, and we've already seen they've got multiple, perfectly usable models in the PokeDex 3D App.

Kid Icarus, for example, is a great game and was built basically from the ground up more or less with good graphics that make use of the 3DS and a ton of extras including full voice-acting. It came out back in March.

Honestly I say they've been working on Gen VI ever since Gen V came out... that'd be in 2010 and games like B2/W2 don't take much at all... I agree Quattro... but GF promised to expand the Pokemon World... as it;s been said GF doesn't handle side-games. We'll see soon enough

Originally Posted by Joshawott

But why is the question.

They wanted to promote the version mascots. More to the point, they wanted to release two movie versions in the hopes of increasing overall ticket sales.

Especially when they had seemingly planned to make Reshiram and Zekrom available in White 2 and Black 2 respectively.

But unlike in previous generations, no single game contains both version mascots, and B2W2 weren't even out then. Yes, one could buy the sequel version corresponding to one's missing dragon, but then one wouldn't have access to the rest of the version-exclusive Pokémon. The movie event solves that problem.

For the record, I didn't like their decision. But in retrospect, there is nothing wrong with how the event Pokémon have been handled seeing as it's the end result that matters. Again, it goes to say a lot about Game Freak's plans for 2013, but it's a huge stretch to infer that they changed their plans.

Also, Genesect's Wi-Fi event explains why it was distributed soon after Keldeo and Meloetta...how? They could have - and hell, should have, waited for the movie in 2013. If they wanted a Wi-Fi event soon after launch, they could have distributed Keldeo or Meloetta (especially as Keldeo was only a ticket pre-order gift)...at least they were relevant.

There is no way that they would have rendered the ongoing movie promotions redundant by releasing Keldeo or Meloetta via Wi-Fi. Plus, they wanted to distribute a previously unreleased Pokémon exclusively to B2W2 so as to encourage people to buy the games.

You need to get over the fact that event Pokémon are no longer exclusively revealed via movies.

I swear at some point that he actually did. Like, how they'll have a Battle Frontier in one game but not the next, so they can add it into a third version.

He said that they hadn't had time to incorporate a Battle Frontier into Diamond and Pearl. He was probably lying.

Yeah, you totally expected to see the Dream World in Generation IV, despite the idea not crossing our minds until Generation V.

Please don't tell me what I did or didn't expect to see; you can only speak for yourself. While I didn't have the specifics in mind, I did think that there should be a way to download special Pokémon on a regular basis. I was disappointed with the Pokéwalker because it didn't serve that purpose. I had expected to see an Egg Ticket service for HGSS where players would receive a special egg per day by connecting to a Nintendo server; it would have been a great expansion of the corresponding Crystal feature.

You could argue that Wi-Fi tournaments and random match-up were inspired by the increase in competitive play that occurred during Generation IV (hell, it was the first generation where the UK had a World Championships qualifier). Besides, random match up was introduced in Battle Revolution, which was Generation IV.

And how does any of that imply that Game Freak couldn't have added such features to the Generation IV games that they developed? Once again, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Animated Sprites? Yeah, they were pretty cool (although you could say that were just a slight increase on the already existing animations).

And you would be wrong to say that; the two-frame Emerald and Generation IV animations were incredibly lackluster. Crystal certainly did it right the first time around, though.

Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena

No one's expecting them to, most people are reasonably expecting a late summer, early-fall release, which I think is a decent amount of time. I'm sure they started on Gen VI stuff relatively soon after Gen V was released.

Because
- HG/SS main game use the same engine as Platinum, it's not the whole work again. The biggest work was for designers, and Pokéthlon.
- Same between BW and B2W2. (Also, several maps were reused)

Doesn't that sort of help my point though? BW to BW2 wasn't a lot of work, which means they had plenty of time to get started on Gen VI. They also hired new 3D modelers around BW's release, and we've already seen they've got multiple, perfectly usable models in the PokeDex 3D App.

Not really, because my point is that GF released that amount of games in that amount of time, having that amount of work already done. Without that advantage, it's natural they should (and will) take a bit longer for a new game.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention GF was already working on a 3DS game out of Pokémon franchise: Rhythm Hunter.

Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena

Kid Icarus, for example, is a great game and was built basically from the ground up more or less with good graphics that make use of the 3DS and a ton of extras including full voice-acting. It came out back in March.

And how many projects have Sora Ltd. been involved into before Kid Icarus?

A: Zero, because it was a new team.

Originally Posted by Silktree

Originally Posted by Joshawott

But why is the question.

They wanted to promote the version mascots. More to the point, they wanted to release two movie versions in the hopes of increasing overall ticket sales.

Especially when they had seemingly planned to make Reshiram and Zekrom available in White 2 and Black 2 respectively.

But unlike in previous generations, no single game contains obtain both version mascots, and B2W2 weren't even out then. Yes, one could buy the sequel version corresponding to one's missing dragon, but then one wouldn't have access to the rest of the version-exclusive Pokémon. The movie event solves that problem.

GameFreak not putting Black's exclusives in White 2 and White's exclusives in Black 2 was a really weird decision. However, I highly doubt that GameFreak intended for Black players to buy White 2 (and vice versa) because I dunno...Black 2 is called Black 2, so it comes after Pokémon Black?

For the record, I didn't like their decision. But in retrospect, there is nothing wrong with how the event Pokémon have been handled seeing as it's the end result that matters. Again, it goes to say a lot about Game Freak's plans for 2013, but it's a huge stretch to infer that they changed their plans.

I highly doubt everything went as planned. 2012 just seemed so disorganised. Not just the three Mythical Pokémon in one year, but B2W2 having a June release instead of the usual September obviously being to get them out internationally in 2012 (being DS games and all). Then there's how America and Europe actually received a Genesect event, but not a Meloetta one (despite B2W2 coming out around the time Meloetta debuted in the anime and that America has already received the Keldeo movie). It's weird - disorganised even.

Also, Genesect's Wi-Fi event explains why it was distributed soon after Keldeo and Meloetta...how? They could have - and hell, should have, waited for the movie in 2013. If they wanted a Wi-Fi event soon after launch, they could have distributed Keldeo or Meloetta (especially as Keldeo was only a ticket pre-order gift)...at least they were relevant.

There is no way that they would have rendered the ongoing movie promotions redundant by releasing Keldeo or Meloetta via Wi-Fi. Plus, they wanted to distribute a previously unreleased Pokémon exclusively to B2W2 so as to encourage people to buy the games.

Genesect wasn't distributed at Black 2/White 2's launch - it was given out 2 months later and it's being distributed again at the beginning of next year. Sure, the Keldeo and Meloetta distributions were still going on when Genesect's started, but the end of Keldeo's cut it pretty close. They could have easily moved Keldeo to Wi-Fi once the ticket promotion had ended. If I remember correctly, the shiny legendary beasts were made available in America via GameStop, but later on Wi-Fi (due to the way English Wi-Fi events are handled).

Yeah, you totally expected to see the Dream World in Generation IV, despite the idea not crossing our minds until Generation V.

Please don't tell me what I did or didn't expect to see; you can only speak for yourself. While I didn't have the specifics in mind, I did think that there should be a way to download special Pokémon on a regular basis. I was disappointed with the Pokéwalker because it didn't serve that purpose.

So your original idea was pretty much Mystery Gift, that has served that purpose since Generation III, just all year round? Shame the Dream World isn't exactly that either.

You could argue that Wi-Fi tournaments and random match-up were inspired by the increase in competitive play that occurred during Generation IV (hell, it was the first generation where the UK had a World Championships qualifier). Besides, random match up was introduced in Battle Revolution, which was Generation IV.

And how does any of that imply that Game Freak couldn't have added such features to the Generation IV games that they developed? Once again, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

And you're just accusing me of arguing for the sake of arguing instead of raising a logical point, because you're arguing for the sake of arguing. It's simple:
DPt = GameFreak couldn't judge the growth of competitive play (Because obviously DP kicked it off and the first international competitive season was during the year of Platinum's international release).
HGSS = Added "Flat Battle" rules, which was the format of official VGC events the year before. Thus allowing players to use Pokémon and moves beyond lv.50.
BW = Added the Tournament feature for real life events, after seeing the popularity of them in previous years.

It's also worth noting that Junichi Masuda started work on Generation V following Pokémon Platinum's release. So BW would have been his first chance to truly implement a system for the increasing competitive scene.

Animated Sprites? Yeah, they were pretty cool (although you could say that were just a slight increase on the already existing animations).

And you would be wrong to say that. The two-frame Emerald and Generation IV animations were incredibly lackluster. Crystal certainly did it right the first time around, though.

They basically just added more frames in. Slight increase. Not a big "Wow, we must buy this game!" feature anyway.

And how many projects have Sora Ltd. been involved into before Kid Icarus?

So, uh, a new team can produce a great 3DS game from the ground up basically but an already fully-formed team don't have enough time to create a great 3DS game that's got multiple games to build off of?

EDIT: And I forgot to mention GF was already working on a 3DS game out of Pokémon franchise: Rhythm Hunter.

I don't think a Downloadable game uses up a significant amount of resources.

Intelligent Systems churned out two Downloadable games (Pushmo/Crashmo), a new Paper Mario, AND a new Fire Emblem all within roughly the same year and a half.

Originally Posted by Joshawott

GameFreak not putting Black's exclusives in White 2 and White's exclusives in Black 2 was a really weird decision. However, I highly doubt that GameFreak intended for Black players to buy White 2 (and vice versa) because I dunno...Black 2 is called Black 2, so it comes after Pokémon Black?

They've said that players are free to choose whichever sequel version they want to play. Different strokes for different folks. You can actually enjoy more version differences by playing the opposite version.

I highly doubt everything went as planned. 2012 just seemed so disorganised. Not just the three Mythical Pokémon in one year, but B2W2 having a June release instead of the usual September obviously being to get them out internationally in 2012 (being DS games and all). Then there's how America and Europe actually received a Genesect event, but not a Meloetta one (despite B2W2 coming out around the time Meloetta debuted in the anime and that America has already received the Keldeo movie). It's weird - disorganised even.

These all seem like petty details to me. All of these seem like good things with the minor exception of Meloetta not having been distributed outside Japan yet.

They could have easily moved Keldeo to Wi-Fi once the ticket promotion had ended.

And how would that have been better? Genesect was the best incentive to to get people to buy B2W2, for the simple reason that it couldn't be downloaded directly to Black and White.

Please enlighten me as to what is so wrong with Genesect already being available.

So your original idea was pretty much Mystery Gift, that has served that purpose since Generation III, just all year round? Shame the Dream World isn't exactly that either.

It could have worked nicely had there been some way to breed the special moves onto even more Pokémon in the egg group of the downloaded Pokémon. It would have been a blend of Mystery Gift and regular breeding.

DPt = GameFreak couldn't judge the growth of competitive play (Because obviously DP kicked it off and the first international competitive season was during the year of Platinum's international release).

And yet Genius Sonority added a random battle feature just three months after Diamond and Pearl's release. I fail to see why Game Freak needed to judge anything for such a relatively simple feature. It wouldn't have been perfect, but it could have worked. By Platinum, let alone HGSS, they could have worked out a decent system. The fans had certainly expected them to do so.

Sorry, but I still think you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

It's also worth noting that Junichi Masuda started work on Generation V following Pokémon Platinum's release. So BW would have been his first chance to truly implement a system for the increasing competitive scene.

He barely worked on Platinum or HGSS, and he had already started work on Black and White in late 2006.

They basically just added more frames in. Slight increase. Not a big "Wow, we must buy this game!" feature anyway.

This isn't about how expansive Generation V's features are, but rather it's about whether or not some of them could have been implemented earlier to make Generation IV more wholesome as the only DS-based generation.

Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena

And how many projects have Sora Ltd. been involved into before Kid Icarus?

So, uh, a new team can produce a great 3DS game from the ground up basically but an already fully-formed team don't have enough time to create a great 3DS game that's got multiple games to build off of?

Yes, because Sora was working on Kid Icarus and only Kid Icarus, so they were truly "plenty of time" to develop a great game. GF, as you said, had several projects in parallel.

Originally Posted by Silktree

I highly doubt everything went as planned. 2012 just seemed so disorganised. Not just the three Mythical Pokémon in one year, but B2W2 having a June release instead of the usual September obviously being to get them out internationally in 2012 (being DS games and all). Then there's how America and Europe actually received a Genesect event, but not a Meloetta one (despite B2W2 coming out around the time Meloetta debuted in the anime and that America has already received the Keldeo movie). It's weird - disorganised even.

These all seem like petty details to me. All of these seem like good things with the minor exception of Meloetta not having been distributed outside Japan yet.

"I don't agree with them, or can't think of another reason for them, so they're petty". 2012 was a rushed year for Pokémon, in terms of the games, the Mythical Pokémon and even the pacing of the anime.

They could have easily moved Keldeo to Wi-Fi once the ticket promotion had ended.

And how would that have been better? Genesect was the best incentive to to get people to buy B2W2, for the simple reason that it couldn't be downloaded directly to Black and White.

I know - the best incentive to buy a game is through a promotion that wasn't announced when the games were first released!

Please enlighten me as to what is so wrong with Genesect already being available.

What are TPC going to give out for next year's movie, unless Gen VI somehow surfaces before then? (Which it won't because of the "Best Wishes" tag on the movie poster...unless that's a red herring). The special shiny red Genesect? Well...why didn't they just wait a bit longer and give out a normal Genesect?

DPt = GameFreak couldn't judge the growth of competitive play (Because obviously DP kicked it off and the first international competitive season was during the year of Platinum's international release).

And yet Genius Sonority added a random battle feature just three months after Diamond and Pearl's release. I fail to see why Game Freak needed to judge anything for such a relatively simple feature. It wouldn't have been perfect, but it could have worked. By Platinum, let alone HGSS, they could have worked out a decent system. The fans had certainly expected them to do so.

Who knows why they decided to wait until BW to add Random Battles? It certainly would have been cool in Platinum and/or HGSS. Hell, it's only now - near the end of Generation V, that The Pokémon Company is fully integrating the online tournaments into proper competitive play (which has caused some division in the competitive community). GameFreak have never been very fast on the internet uptake.

It's also worth noting that Junichi Masuda started work on Generation V following Pokémon Platinum's release. So BW would have been his first chance to truly implement a system for the increasing competitive scene.

He barely worked on Platinum or HGSS, and he had already started work on Black and White in late 2006.

According to the Iwata Asks segment I linked to earlier, he said that he moved onto BW after Platinum. Either way though, that still supports my original point that BW would have been his first chance to actively acknowledge the then-increasing competitive scene by implementing those new features.

Originally Posted by Joshawott

It's also worth noting that Junichi Masuda started work on Generation V following Pokémon Platinum's release.

Incorrect. General conceptualization began before DP was even finished, Unova being based on NYC was decided at the time of DP's international launch, and Pokemon design development began in Spring 2008.

Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena

I don't think a Downloadable game uses up a significant amount of resources.

HarmoKnight took 25 employees and 1.5 years of dev time.

Originally Posted by Zistal

Originally Posted by Joshawott

It's also worth noting that Junichi Masuda started work on Generation V following Pokémon Platinum's release.

Incorrect. General conceptualization began before DP was even finished, Unova being based on NYC was decided at the time of DP's international launch, and Pokemon design development began in Spring 2008.

Rereading the quote, you're right:

Iwata: So after Pokémon Diamond Version and Pokémon Pearl Version came out and everyone at Game Freak was making Pokémon Platinum Version" you were examining the games from a number of different angles and thinking about how you could make them so that players never “graduated” from them.

.
Must have misread it earlier.