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  1. #16
    Fumo Ergo Sum Vhazhiphor's Avatar
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Quote Originally Posted by Form11ess 5hot View Post
    That's actually what most of the people who are uncomfortable with smokers have a dilemma on. In my case, I don't want to disturb what someone enjoys and if it doesn't have to do anything with me, then I don't care. But the problem occurs when I'm included, or anyone near me is. If someone's smoking nearby, and I don't want them to, then I might as well ask them politely. But the thing is that most smokers are scary. I may be biased but it's actually hard to ask because we might get snarls of "It's none of your business", or "If you can't stand it, YOU get out of here."

    If they're all polite like you, then we'd have a less harder time when asking. But when I once asked someone to smoke somewhere else because there were babies nearby, I got told off for intruding his time. It's really upsetting because even the smell of smoke can kill infants (called Third-smoking effects, or something like that).

    Anyways, sorry for any offense, but that's really the kind of impression we get on smokers that we can't ask them easily.
    I guess we've met different kinds of smokers. Like I said, it kinda feels like it's okay for people to hate us, maybe some smokers act defensive because of that. Not that this makes it any better than rude anti-smokers.

    I can only speak for myself, but I'll try to stay out of other people's way if smoking in a public place. But some people take it too far - there was a proposed law to ban smokers from being within 25 feet of non-smokers at public places such as parks. I forgot which state it was, and don't know if it was ever passed. But it's ridiculous. People should learn to talk with one another and reach compromises instead of having the state come up with this stuff.

    I've heard of third-hand smoke (residue that remains in the enclosed space where smoking took place and can cause carcinogens when expose to nitrous acid that can be found in the air). I find it hard to believe because I find it hard to believe in second hand smoke. There's also this, from Wikipedia:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    This was demonstrated by spraying a "high but reasonable" level of nitrous acid (about 4-12 times the levels typically found in homes) onto cellulose substrates used to wipe the interior of a vehicle that had been heavily smoked in over time.
    "High but reasonable"? Four to twelve times the normal amount? To prove that it's there, sure it's reasonable. To prove that it can and will happen in normal circumstances? I'm not a scientist, but I have my doubts.

    I can't find the bookmark anymore, because it was on another computer, but I recall reading a website that talked about second hand smoke and the studies done about 50 years ago which are still being touted to this day. It basically tried to discredit most of those things, by saying that second hand smoke can't be as dangerous as it's said to be since regular burning is a different chemical reaction to taking a drag from the stick, among other things. How pipe smokers in the study lived longest, except for the ones who quit smoking and ended up dying younger, and that the sample was skewed for several reasons: Second-hand data from neighbors or family members, a smoker was anyone that had smoked at any time, and lung cancer related deaths were any deaths in lung cancer patients. And the study was commissioned with the intention to find negative side effects to smoking, so the whole thing was biased to begin with.

    I do admit, however, that I'm biased towards all of this being true, and can't assure anyone that it is or isn't. I have to find that page again and reread it more thoroughly.

  2. #17
    Hψ=Eψ H-con's Avatar
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    You find it hard to believe in second hand smoke? I wonder what part of scientific evidence it's hard to believe in.

  3. #18
    So what's your wish? Yato's Avatar
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    So you don't believe in the effects of second hand smoking? It's actually been proved by numerous scientists and doctors, and they are confirmed. Try searching for officially published books by them rather than the Internet.

    And smoking IS the source of lung cancer - there's no doubt about it. Second hand smoking and third hand smoking are dangerous as well.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Prohibition doesn't work folks.

    I guarantee if we outlaw cigarettes, we'll just be repeating history (Again) and it will most likely fail horribly and the government will kill thousands (Again) to cover up their fucking blunder.

    They tried it with alcohol in the early 1900s and it failed, whats different now? And don't say we are more sophisticated or some bull cause we are not.

    Even though I don't agree with smoking nor shall I ever smoke, outlawing it most likely won't solve anything.

  5. #20
    Fumo Ergo Sum Vhazhiphor's Avatar
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Quote Originally Posted by H-con View Post
    You find it hard to believe in second hand smoke? I wonder what part of scientific evidence it's hard to believe in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Form11ess 5hot View Post
    So you don't believe in the effects of second hand smoking? It's actually been proved by numerous scientists and doctors, and they are confirmed. Try searching for officially published books by them rather than the Internet.

    And smoking IS the source of lung cancer - there's no doubt about it. Second hand smoking and third hand smoking are dangerous as well.

    Perhaps I used the wrong wording. It's not that it doesn't exist, but I don't think it's as dangerous as we're constantly told it is.

    By the way, which scientific evidence are referring to? The studies that say ETS has negative effects on health, the ones that show no negative effects or the ones that show no significant effects at all? Because studies about smoking, ETS and lung cancer run the gamut of those results, with nobody ending up agreeing on anything. For example, Environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98 found that
    "No significant associations were found for current or former exposure to environmental tobacco smoke before or after adjusting for seven confounders and before or after excluding participants with pre-existing disease. No significant associations were found during the shorter follow up periods of 1960-5, 1966-72, 1973-85, and 1973-98."
    It also says that,

    "The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed."
    Admittedly, the study did receive funding from a tobacco company, and was labeled as biased for that fact even through it was published in a peer-reviewed journal. There's more studies than the one, however.

  6. #21
    So what's your wish? Yato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhazhiphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H-con View Post
    You find it hard to believe in second hand smoke? I wonder what part of scientific evidence it's hard to believe in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Form11ess 5hot View Post
    So you don't believe in the effects of second hand smoking? It's actually been proved by numerous scientists and doctors, and they are confirmed. Try searching for officially published books by them rather than the Internet.

    And smoking IS the source of lung cancer - there's no doubt about it. Second hand smoking and third hand smoking are dangerous as well.

    Perhaps I used the wrong wording. It's not that it doesn't exist, but I don't think it's as dangerous as we're constantly told it is.

    By the way, which scientific evidence are referring to? The studies that say ETS has negative effects on health, the ones that show no negative effects or the ones that show no significant effects at all? Because studies about smoking, ETS and lung cancer run the gamut of those results, with nobody ending up agreeing on anything. For example, Environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98 found that
    "No significant associations were found for current or former exposure to environmental tobacco smoke before or after adjusting for seven confounders and before or after excluding participants with pre-existing disease. No significant associations were found during the shorter follow up periods of 1960-5, 1966-72, 1973-85, and 1973-98."
    It also says that,

    "The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed."
    Admittedly, the study did receive funding from a tobacco company, and was labeled as biased for that fact even through it was published in a peer-reviewed journal. There's more studies than the one, however.
    But there's a reason why everyone in the world is supporting smokers to quit smoking. I haven't seen anyone encourage people to smoke - is there anything good about smoking that is strong enough to compete with the fact that it is the source of cancer?

  7. #22
    Fumo Ergo Sum Vhazhiphor's Avatar
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Saying that it is "the" source of cancer is misleading. Yes, it can cause cancer. If I recall my high school chemistry class correctly, when any carbohydrate burns, it can release carcinogens. This includes, for example, the carbon you'd use to prepare a barbecue. And the higher the temperature at which you cook the meat, the more carcinogens are going to be in it. That's another reason (and one I mentioned above) for my doubts in ETS - taking a drag makes the tobacco burn hotter, so it should follow that using a cigarette and standing close to a lit one can't have the same effect.

    So smoking may not be "good" for you, but I argue that maybe it's not as bad as it's made out to be. Maybe. I don't know for sure, since I haven't read all of the studies out there. I doubt any of us has. All we know is what we're told; what we see, read and hear every day (including the internet - the source does not necessarily invalidate the argument).

    I'd say that the reason "everyone in the world" supports smokers to quit, is because we're all told that it's bad, and want to feel nice about helping other people. That and, we all know how everyone else should live their lives and love to tell them so. The reason a lot of people like to give advice on diets and parenting even if they eat poorly and have no children.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    While I would prefer people didn't smoke, I won't tell them they should quit for no reason. If they're contemplating quitting, I'll support them, because smoking is a bad habit. But I don't concern myself with it too much, just so long as no one smokes while I'm around.

    Though I think I would step in and mention something if a friend was a chronic smoker, as in smoking half, or a whole pack (or even more) a day. I feel any sort of chronic obsession with something is a bad thing.

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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Quote Originally Posted by Form11ess 5hot View Post
    [But there's a reason why everyone in the world is supporting smokers to quit smoking. I haven't seen anyone encourage people to smoke - is there anything good about smoking that is strong enough to compete with the fact that it is the source of cancer?
    South Park and the film "Thank You For Smoking" support them.

  10. #25
    Magical Girl Shiny Celebi's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Form11ess 5hot View Post
    [But there's a reason why everyone in the world is supporting smokers to quit smoking. I haven't seen anyone encourage people to smoke - is there anything good about smoking that is strong enough to compete with the fact that it is the source of cancer?
    South Park and the film "Thank You For Smoking" support them.
    Those arent supposed to be taken seriously. Southpark is a parody show.

    I myself would never touch tobacco, I think it's gross. I dont like people smoking near me either, but Im polite and choose to move away if someone smokes near me. I just think it dosent do anything good for you. The it might not be as harmful as said, but I still wouldnt smoke because it dosent do anything beneficial for you.
    Zenax likes this.

  11. #26
    Fumo Ergo Sum Vhazhiphor's Avatar
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Well, to be fair, Nicotine does have beneficial effects on your health. The problem is that the way it's ingested (via combustion) tends to release carcinogens. But again, that isn't exclusive to smoking. Not to mention if you smoke a cigarette you're not just smoking the tobacco, but a slew of other chemicals added to make sure it keeps burning, or to make them "milder", etc. Cigarettes now actually have more chemicals than cigarettes did in the 1940's, which is an effort to make the smoke "milder" (I believe, but may be wrong, that this was mandated by regulations) and thus makes them unhealthier today than they used to be.

    Also:

    In 1964, the Surgeon General of the United States issued a landmark report on tobacco usage. [...] A subsequent revision of this report [...] concluded that pipe smoking increased the mortality ratio slightly, when compared with non-smokers, but the effect was minimal when compared to cigarette smokers. Pipe smokers using four or fewer bowls of tobacco per day had a lower mortality ratio than non-smokers[emphasis mine] - meaning the death rate was less for occasional pipe smokers than for the general population.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    I totally hate smoking. I choke on the smoke when people around me smoke, and i wanna knock that thing outta their hand.
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    There are only a few things I can't stand and smoking is one of them. If you want to end your days early and die from lung cancer feel free to do so but do you really have to make other suffer from the smell and passive smoking?

  14. #29
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Quote Originally Posted by ラプラス View Post
    I totally hate smoking. I choke on the smoke when people around me smoke, and i wanna knock that thing outta their hand.
    Same here. What I don't get, though, is why people start smoking in the first place. You'd think after it's become widely known that it's highly addictive and can kill you, nobody would pick up a cigarette to begin with.
    Crack some heads for me, darlings. Thank you, and good night.

  15. #30
    Rock of Ages! Zenax's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: About Smoking

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Suncake View Post
    Same here. What I don't get, though, is why people start smoking in the first place. You'd think after it's become widely known that it's highly addictive and can kill you, nobody would pick up a cigarette to begin with.
    Peer pressure is a nasty thing. The brother I've mentioned above knows that it's dangerous for his health and was aware of it when he started at like age 18, but all his friends were doing it and it was the cool thing to do.

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