URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Okay, so for whoever lurks this thread I've been put in charge of developing the URPG Dungeons. I've already approached some people who were active in the previous thread / I think might be qualified to help out, but if you want to be involved please VM me and chances are good you can get in on this goodness. If you just have a one-off query or comment, feel free to post, though.

    Alright, so the first thing I think we need to do is look at exactly what we want to achieve through the Dungeons. HKim has said that (to start with at least) the Dungeons should be self-contained AIM events as opposed to sprawling missions like what the Missions were. The current idea seems to be that a party of 3-5 Adventurers goes into a Dungeon, which consists of some number of floors. I think that's a pretty good start, but we have some things we should nail down first.

    - How many floors? Should it vary?
    - What will the gameplay be like more exactly?
    - How will they be run?

    I'm probably missing some, but that's all I've got for now. Anyway, below are my opinions so far on the above questions. Everyone, feel free to give your impressions / raise your own questions / VM me if you want to get in on the development team.

    -How many floors? Should it vary?

    I think that to start with we should keep them consistent. Anything inventive or overly ambitious should be put on hold for now, at least until we have the general plan down and some number of successful tests under our belt. Three floors sounds about right for now.

    - What will the gameplay be like exactly?

    I know people have been excited about some kind of turn-based grid-locked PMD-esque system, but I think that's going the wrong way. There's too many problems with it, like for example the Dungeon Master taking a long time to perform calculations, or how exactly we make / use the grids, etc. I think the best way to go about this is to make them like Team FFAs. Have a DM and a group of Adventurers and they send moves to the ref, who refs it. We can add special rules and stuff to vary it up. The Pokemon the Adventurers encounter can either be pre-determined or randomly rolled, I'm not fussed, I like either way as long as the floors get progressively harder. Regarding floors themselves, I think each floor should just be an FFA instead of involving separate rooms. A 2x2 or 3x3 grid are so small it would be pointless, and anything larger would take too long.

    - How will it be run?

    Not as important right now, but here it is. I think the best thing to do here would be to leave it to operate like battles do (Adventurers would organise a group and then go searching for a DM). We could have a forum thread to help people find each other, but an AIM Blast Chat would probably be just as good.
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    Awesome Opossum Sequentio's Avatar
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    - How many floors?

    I think this mainly depends on gameplay. If gameplay takes too long, then 10 floors would probably not be recommended. I suggest the DM roll a 3 sided dice.
    1 - 2 floors + UB
    2 - 3 floors + UB
    3 - 4 floors + UB
    Ultimate Boss (UB) is faced after X floors, so if the dice rolled a 1, the team would go through 2 floors and then a third floor containing only the UB.
    This way, it's not ridiculously long and it shouldn't take so many hours that the majority of the party has to leave. It also creates a random variable, since most dungeons are random anyway.

    - Gameplay

    This is the area which needs the most help and description.
    1. No matter what it's like (grid or not) the time a DM takes to do calculations is the same.
    2. I agree that it should be similar to an FFA, though, think of it more as a Triple (or Quadruple) battle against a singular opponent. If O is the Opponent and X are the players, it would be imagined like;
    ______
    X O X
    _X X_

    This way, all the X could attack and O can attack (and reach all players).

    If it works like an FFA, sent moves and all, it would be at least nice to have the players type like an RPG (since Dungeons are RPG staples). Nothing at ALL like the Parks, but simply; "Blaziken opened his mouth and summoned a flamethrower." One or two sentences is plenty, rather than just; "Flamethrower." If that's the case, then it might as well just be a X vs. O battle and not a Dungeon crawl.

    However, attacking/damage/etc. would be like an FFA.

    Chainy; Blaziken opened his mouth and used a mighty Flamethrower on Mega Bidoof (O).
    DM; Flamethrower. Roll; 30. No Burn. - Mega Bidoof @ 95% Blaziken @ 80%
    Nitro; Sceptile ran towards the opponent and used Leaf Blade on Mega Bidoof (O).
    DM; Leaf Blade. Roll; 60. Crit roll; 7. No crit. - Mega Bidoof @ 42% Sceptile @ 100%
    Seq; Swampert was tired and hurt, so he laid down for a rest.
    DM; Swampert @ 100% [SLP-2]
    DM; Mega Bidoof roared and unleashed his fury in a Strength. Hits Blaziken, Sceptile, Swampert.
    Blaziken @ 65%. Sceptile @ 87%, Swampert @ 95% [SLP-2]
    Mega Bidoof @ 42%
    Moves?


    It'd also be nice to know how/what ideas are gathered for HOW floors are set up. Is it just one battle per floor? That probably wouldn't last too long, especially when there's four on one - save for the UB. This is why the grid was suggested.
    Floor 1
    1 2 3
    4 5 6
    7 8 9
    If you assume the party always comes in on square 9, then the DM can roll an 8 sided dice to determine where the O is for that floor.
    Ex. Roll - 5.
    Floor 1
    1 2 3
    4 O 6
    7 8 X
    To get to the next floor, the party must defeat O (since below O will be the stairs and will be block 9 on Floor 2). Party cannot move diagonally, so they will have to go 8 - O or 6 - O.

    On the blank numbers, (in this case 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8), there can be dice rolls. For example, the party moves to 6. The DM rolls a 100 sided dice.
    1 - 10; Nothing happens.
    11 - 50; Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members.
    51 - 70; One party member (rolled) is afflicted with a status (rolled).
    71 - 89; Two party members (rolled) are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    81 - 99; All party members are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    100; All party members are reduced to 1 HP. If anyone in the party is afflicted by PSN, they will not be able to faint until engaged in battle. Walking or using turns on the grid will not cause PSN/1 HP PSN'd Pokemon to faint.

    In summary, 3 x 3 grids would not be pointless or too hard. They provide a challenge while not taking up a ridiculous amount of time.

    - How will it be run?

    I agree. Honestly, most people will probably just ask in [URPG] anyway.

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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Say if we were to incorporate a points system, similar to PMD where doing missions of varying difficulty can award more or less points. The points given for completion of missions could actually be used as a form of credits, which in turn can be spent on many different things, Mart items and pissibly Pokemon/used to buy supplies for a mission (entrancee fee) or supplies mid-mission to heal Pokemon/a form of gambling even.

    Points could act as a method of determining someone's ranking. Say all beginning trainers start out as Elementary rank, needing X amount of points to either be spent on, or just awarding them for free, a new rank. With higher ranks comes better rewards points can be spent on and also harder missions.

    How many floors? Should it vary?

    Well, people seem to agree on three as a good initial starting point. It could definitely work out for more basic missions or something along those lines. I think the minimum should stay at three, and the max no more than five. For now, I think three is a safe bet fpr the majority of trial runs.

    Gameplay

    Keeping it as close to FFA structure would be best, imo. Pokemon can move based on speed stat in the URPG, or the UB will move at the start or the end of the turn. As for damage dealt and received, I don't think there should be any standard to go with except for putting Light Screen and Reflect in play for the UB's side OR doubling the base HP (so Jolteon @ 334 would be edited manually to 668). This is based on the fact that bosses in PMD and Rumble have near enough to double the health points than they would as a regular Pokemon.

    Now, with regards to tougher opponents, they could have additional traits. Togekiss could have Serene Grace add on or Tyranitar could summon sand, if we just go by abilities. Obviously, there could be certain floors with a set weather and terrain, with all associated effects uncluded (say UB Ice Body Walrein heals 6.25% per turn while all bar Ice types lose 6.25% per turn in Hail and Secret Power would have a 30% Freeze rate thanks to Snow Terrain).

    With regards to the stats, I think they should be put exclusively at turn end, for ease of eyes and just general practise. This would be near identical to regular battle's or FFA's end of turn stats.

    How will it be run?

    AIM in Blast Chats or chatrooms. I'm sure a forum alternative could be adapted too if needs be.

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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Okay Seq, you've convinced me that 3x3 grids are a good idea for each floor. However, if we take this as given, ten floors is faaaaaaaar too many. Assume worst-case scenario, and the Adventurers hit the O room last every time. These Dungeons could be taking hours, then. It seems like the median so far is 3-5 floors, so let's make that iron-clad for now.

    I'm not a fan of grids within battles, though. It gets too complex and doesn't really add much to the equation. They should just be FFA style, because limiting Pokemon's movement and range doesn't really mesh well with roleplaying (I LOVE your roleplay suggestion, I was wondering how to squeeze it in). I like how Syn has it working - FFAs but with certain advantages given to the Dungeon Pokemon. Something I want to emphasise is that not every battle needs to be / should be a single beefed-up Pokemon. I think at least half should be just a group of regular Pokemon - that way there's more tactics involved. Should we take down the Gengar first because it hits hard and fast, or the Cradily before it gets set up?

    Lastly, I like the idea of events happening that aren't battles, but I think your rates are just a little skewed, Seq. There should be equal emphasis on battles / nothing happening (say, 30%) and less emphasis on Pokemon being hurt / healed (say, 20% and 10% respectively).

    Looking forward to more input, especially from people who haven't spoken yet.
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    Awesome Opossum Sequentio's Avatar
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post



    I think the points should be the reward for completing the dungeon, as well as X money. This way, all battlers (and DM) get paid and there's incentive to do dungeons, since points could be spent in the mart.

    Completely agree with your analysis on the Game Play, and mechanics on what the O's and UB should be stat wise can be worked out at a later time. The FFA stats at the end are much more preferable.



    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post


    I'm glad to see the 3 x 3 grids being taken into consideration for each floor, and I think 3 - 5 floors is more than enough.

    I wasn't suggesting grids in battle though, more, that's just kinda how it would be set up in your imagination? Since it's like RPing a Dungeon, you know.

    I also agree with Syn on the Dungeon Pokemon perks. And I enjoy the idea that not all O's are just one Pokemon, but could be more than one.

    My rates were just thrown out there as an example for the blank grid spaces. Whatever others suggest is probably more preferable. lol

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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Quote Originally Posted by Sequentio View Post
    It'd also be nice to know how/what ideas are gathered for HOW floors are set up. Is it just one battle per floor? That probably wouldn't last too long, especially when there's four on one - save for the UB. This is why the grid was suggested.
    Floor 1
    1 2 3
    4 5 6
    7 8 9
    If you assume the party always comes in on square 9, then the DM can roll an 8 sided dice to determine where the O is for that floor.
    Ex. Roll - 5.
    Floor 1
    1 2 3
    4 O 6
    7 8 X
    To get to the next floor, the party must defeat O (since below O will be the stairs and will be block 9 on Floor 2). Party cannot move diagonally, so they will have to go 8 - O or 6 - O.

    On the blank numbers, (in this case 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8), there can be dice rolls. For example, the party moves to 6. The DM rolls a 100 sided dice.
    1 - 10; Nothing happens.
    11 - 50; Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members.
    51 - 70; One party member (rolled) is afflicted with a status (rolled).
    71 - 89; Two party members (rolled) are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    81 - 99; All party members are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    100; All party members are reduced to 1 HP. If anyone in the party is afflicted by PSN, they will not be able to faint until engaged in battle. Walking or using turns on the grid will not cause PSN/1 HP PSN'd Pokemon to faint.

    In summary, 3 x 3 grids would not be pointless or too hard. They provide a challenge while not taking up a ridiculous amount of time.
    Wait, so there's only going to be one battle per floor?
    Using the grid, it could be by chance. Like, for example, roll a 100-sided dice. 1-35, one Pokemon; 36-80, two Pokemon; 81-100, three Pokemon on the floor. Max number of floors being 4, so at most, the group would encounter 13 'mons. Then, that's when the DM will roll for which rooms to place them in. I don't think it really matters if he/she will roll the mons before or after those rolls - could also be pre-determined.

    Then, for the remaining rooms - it could be like this:
    1 - 40; Nothing happens.
    41 - 60; Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members.
    61 - 70; One party member (rolled) is afflicted with a status (rolled).
    71 - 80; Two party members (rolled) are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    81 - 90; Heal entire party by X% (rolled, 10-sided dice, #*10=%) of HP.
    91 - 95; Raise one stat (rolled) of each Pokemon by one stage.
    96 - 99; Raise two stats (rolled) of each Pokemon by one stage/Raise one stat (rolled) of each Pokemon by two stages.
    100; All party members are afflicted with statuses (rolled).

    Wondering if it will be better if we switched the second with the fifth (Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members, and Heal entire party by X% (rolled, 10-sided dice, #*10=%) of HP). Though if you guys plan to have more than one battle per floor... Meh, IDK.

    /random comment
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    (See what? Hear what?) Akinai's Avatar
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyMudkip View Post

    Then, for the remaining rooms - it could be like this:
    1 - 40; Nothing happens.
    41 - 60; Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members.
    61 - 70; One party member (rolled) is afflicted with a status (rolled).
    71 - 80; Two party members (rolled) are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    81 - 90; Heal entire party by X% (rolled, 10-sided dice, #*10=%) of HP.
    91 - 95; Raise one stat (rolled) of each Pokemon by one stage.
    96 - 99; Raise two stats (rolled) of each Pokemon by one stage/Raise one stat (rolled) of each Pokemon by two stages.
    100; All party members are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    You could also make it so one of the 'mons receive an item or berry (Life Orb, Toxic Orc, Sitrus Berry). Could also have rooms that have helps/hazards like in the Battle Pike (Audino with Heal Pulse, Haunter with Hypnosis or Toxic, wildcard 'mons that would either hurt or heal depending on the roll).

    Just my two cents. x.x

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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyMudkip View Post
    Wait, so there's only going to be one battle per floor?
    Using the grid, it could be by chance. Like, for example, roll a 100-sided dice. 1-35, one Pokemon; 36-80, two Pokemon; 81-100, three Pokemon on the floor. Max number of floors being 4, so at most, the group would encounter 13 'mons. Then, that's when the DM will roll for which rooms to place them in. I don't think it really matters if he/she will roll the mons before or after those rolls - could also be pre-determined.

    Then, for the remaining rooms - it could be like this:
    1 - 40; Nothing happens.
    41 - 60; Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members.
    61 - 70; One party member (rolled) is afflicted with a status (rolled).
    71 - 80; Two party members (rolled) are afflicted with statuses (rolled).
    81 - 90; Heal entire party by X% (rolled, 10-sided dice, #*10=%) of HP.
    91 - 95; Raise one stat (rolled) of each Pokemon by one stage.
    96 - 99; Raise two stats (rolled) of each Pokemon by one stage/Raise one stat (rolled) of each Pokemon by two stages.
    100; All party members are afflicted with statuses (rolled).

    Wondering if it will be better if we switched the second with the fifth (Heal entire Party of HP, PP and Status. Revives fallen members, and Heal entire party by X% (rolled, 10-sided dice, #*10=%) of HP). Though if you guys plan to have more than one battle per floor... Meh, IDK.

    /random comment
    Ehh, that's just waaay too luck based, imo, and too easy to get around. Using the example:

    1 2 3
    4 O 6
    7 8 X

    X steps onto 8 and rolls 100. Wow, crud. That's ok, let's just step ourselves onto 7! Yay, we rolled a 48. Ok, hopefully 4 won't give us anything bad... yay, 22, we can go into the battle unscathed!

    It should just be a case of having to defeat waves without healing, not getting things too complicated.

    Also, in the case of the UB, I liked that 'surrounding' idea, but then we have to decide which moves can hit all? Because Strength, afaik, isn't a hit-all move.

    3-5 floors sounds good, then there could be a couple of crazy people that find a ref who agrees to go on further and rewards can be discussed (like the 30v30 battle).
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    the vibration pokemon Nitro's Avatar
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Ignored the other posts in the thread, so I may have missed something important. xD Just decided to give my initial two cents, and I'll probably return to help contribute.

    - How many floors? Should it vary?
    If we have multiple different dungeons, we should have it vary from dungeon to dungeon based on difficulty. Or, we could roll within preset parameters. I think the actual amount of floors could end up changing depending on how long a dungeon run is, meaning test runs will make a big impact on how many floors a run has. I'm down with your initial three-floor suggestion, but should it be too little, we could upgrade to five-to-ten floors (though it all depends on how long these are; ideally I think you would want multiple dungeons that are roughly 30 mins, an hour, two hours with more/better rewards for people who complete the longer ones. This way, you can pick and choose which one you want to do.)

    - What will the gameplay be like more exactly?
    Well, whether it's going to be a turn-based grid-style RPG or not, I think we should have a small floor map (nothing too complex; a small design rolled out of maybe 10-20+ (depending on need) pre-made designs with maybe three-five rooms, though that number is tentative and could vary much like the amount of floors could). And then, I think a compromise between what this would be like in the anime/in a RP and PMD could work well. I think we should have a turn-based grid-style RPG outside of battle, and the group moves as one throughout hallways and empty rooms. However, should they engage in battle, then it becomes more like the National Park, where stuff is roleplayed out (though not a true, hardcore RP post - more simple, one-line commands from an in-battle point of view).

    - How will they be run?
    Have a Ref/Grader/Ranger/Judge-type job assigned to the Dungeons section. Probably do it similar to RPs in the Park, though instead of actually RPing, you can just send moves or something. It wouldn't be a true battle or a true RP - I envision it as more of an adventure through a maze with battles involved. And a group chat would probably work just fine; that's what is often done for Contests and I'd say the amount of people is roughly the same size in Contests (based on how many people are currently planned to be allowed at one time for a Dungeon run). Blast chats are kind of unnecessary imo, though like battles they make fine alternatives should someone be unable to enter a group chat due to technical difficulties. Public blast chats (i.e. [URPG], or even the semi-public blast chats for Rangers/Contest-people) won't work obviously due to the sheer amount of text. Private blast chats work just fine, but the perks of blast chats don't help much from my perspective.
    Last edited by Nitro; 28th October 2011 at 01:25 AM.

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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    - How many floors? Should it vary?

    I think there should be ten floors. Double it for a challenge. (this is for people who want to do a long one)
    Short one would be six floors.

    - What will the gameplay be like more exactly?
    AIM Blast Chat would be most effective depending on how long you want it to last. As for floors, you could do: fifth floor (or third for short version), you fight a side boss (in legendary tems, Manaphy) and on the ten (or six on short version) you fight some big boss (like Rayquaza as an example, doesn't even have to be legendary) We could also add in 'secret rooms' like on PMD that are randomly rolled for stuff like max heal/half heal, PP heal if we are using that, mini prizes like 1k (raise it or lower it), and an easy passage to the next floor. That can also be rolled randomly to see what they get.

    - How will they be run?
    By a dictator. They run and control everything. It seems to fit in all categories of Ranger/Ref/Grader/Judge (sort of, idk about judges o_o), so any of those can run them. Maybe go through a mini training and or small test.
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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Okay, it doesn't look like we're getting any more input any time soon. I've gone through and collated the results. It's time to run a very basic trial to just make sure we're on the right track. I'll be the one running it, and below are the details.

    It will be a three-floor + UB Dungeon where each floor consists of the 3x3 room grid Seq detailed. I'll set the start point and the staircase for each floor.

    The first floor will contain first-stage basic Pokemon only (Piplup, Weedle, Scraggy). The second floor will contain basics and non-Legendary single-stage Pokemon (Monferno, Scyther, Miltank). The third floor will contain any non-Legendary Pokemon (Venusaur, Mienshao, Girafarig). The UB will be a special Pokemon that's slightly different from normal.

    Each room will have a 50% chance of containing Pokemon. If it contains Pokemon, there is a 40% chance of it being a single Pokemon, a 40% chance of it being two Pokemon, and a 20% chance of it being three Pokemon. We need to discuss how these Pokemon are determined for future trials, but for now, I'll just pick them at random.

    For this trial, I'm thinking we need between 3-5 Adventurers, with preferably at least two of them being people who have already posted in this thread. How many people here are free to be on AIM at 11PM on November 12th, GMT? Are there any similar-ish times that are a bit better?
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    9 or 10 would suit me best. Can't gaurantee I'll be on for the whole duration if it's at 11.

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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Count me in if you need another person. Should be online around that time, and free weekend.


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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    Seeing as there's not much interest yet I'm going to hold off on doing this until there's a couple more people interested. What times are best for everyone?
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    Default Re: URPG Dungeons - Initial Planning

    If you need more people, I'll join. I can pretty much do whatever time is convenient for everyone else.s
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