Thread: Palestinians win upgraded UN status by wide margin

Palestinians win upgraded UN status by wide margin



President Mahmoud Abbas: "The international community now stands before the last chance to save the two state solution"

The UN General Assembly has voted to grant the Palestinians non-member observer state status - a move opposed by Israel and the US.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told the assembly the vote was the "last chance to save the two-state solution" with Israel.

Israel's ambassador to the UN, Ron Prosor, said the bid "doesn't advance peace - it pushes it backwards".

The assembly voted 138-9 in favour, with 41 nations abstaining.

Hundreds of Palestinians celebrated on the streets of Ramallah, in the West Bank, after the result was announced.

'Birth certificate'
"Sixty-five years ago on this day, the United Nations General Assembly adopted resolution 181, which partitioned the land of historic Palestine into two states and became the birth certificate for Israel," Mr Abbas told the assembly.

"The General Assembly is called upon today to issue a birth certificate of the reality of the State of Palestine," he said.

Congratulations and such. Now Palestine is an internationally recognized state on par with Vatican City. Please keep all Political Debates in the appropriate forum.

As an American, I wish the United States would stop taking sides so strongly in these kinds of issues. Instead of having a constantly one-sided policy, I think the U.S. should make its priority to do whatever it can to facilitate peace and stability in the world.

Originally Posted by Dialgarules

As an American, I wish the United States would stop taking sides so strongly in these kinds of issues. Instead of having a constantly one-sided policy, I think the U.S. should make its priority to do whatever it can to facilitate peace and stability in the world.

I agree with you, I mean, the reason the US refuses to see Palestine as a state is because they've sided with Israel for so long, and see Palestine as essentially "occupied territory ran by terrorist organisations", and considering that a large amount of the Middle East refuses to see Israel as a state, and will only recognize Palestine, and some of these countries (Iran comes to mind most especially) wish that Isreal would be destroyed.

The reason so many people hate Israel is because Israel isn't just a land, it's a people, which in Judaism and Christianity, is considered to be the people of God, but the Muslims also believe that it's their holy land as well, and it should belong to them, with the word "sharing" not being in their dictionary. If you examine it from a biblical world view, Israel was intended to be God's chosen people, through which the Messiah was to come. The Old Testament is replete with stories whereby they endured horrific wars & exile but God miraculously preserved the Messianic bloodline many times, and Jesus Christ was born, hence the New testament and Christianity.

From a non-biblical view, Israel is a tiny nation, roughly half the size of Lake Michigan, with a population roughly the size of New York City. Despite being a predominately Jewish state, more than twenty percent of its residents are Arab and most Jews in Israel describe themselves as being secular rather than religious, yet if one were to read world press accounts or daily condemnations from the United Nations, you might conclude that Israel is a world power intent on destabilizing Middle East affairs, in fact, Israel is the most militarized nation in the world, let alone the Middle East.

Israel is considered a thorn in the side of the Arab world for one reason because it is a remarkable technological phantasmagoria. Almost every Israeli is engaged in a software scheme. The Jews in this arid nation have made the deserts bloom; they have converted brain power into technical marvels and consequent wealth. By contrast, every nearby Arab nation is dysfunctional, their governments are often totalitarian tyrannical dictatorships whose constitutions are based on religious texts, the people are often poor and uneducated (especially the women), and local officials have been unwilling to convert oil revenue into social benefits, but instead violence and tools of war, such as Iran's nuclear weapons fetish for instance.

In Islam, they claim that if you change your religion from Islam, you are not even considered to be human anymore and must die, and in Islam, it is the ultimate sin for an area of land, once it is ruled by Islam, to revert back to what it was before or to change to something else, especially Jewish, this is probably the reason Muslims are so hostile to other religions, and why the Middle East is so violent is because of their beliefs.

To put it in simpler terms: Muslims essentially think their religion is better than everyone else's religion, and that they are always right and everyone else is wrong and should die. It's violent, hates women, and hates any kind of scientific progress, Islam is basically stuck in the Dark Ages.

All through history, cultures have tried to annihilate Israel, regardless of what they do to attempt to destroy it, they cannot succeed, and the reason is spiritual warfare. What the bible says, in a way, is true, history shows that those who protect Israel will prosper, while those that try to destroy Israel will fall to ruin.

Originally Posted by Dialgarules

As an American, I wish the United States would stop taking sides so strongly in these kinds of issues. Instead of having a constantly one-sided policy, I think the U.S. should make its priority to do whatever it can to facilitate peace and stability in the world.

You do know the US hugely funds the Palestinian Authority, right? Elsewise Senator John Barrasso's amendment proposal wouldn't make much sense. (The funding to other countries that he would conditionally cut is ostensibly for the sake of "peace and stability in the world," by the way.) The United States does not stand on the side of Israel here--it stands on the side of direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, Israel being the only party acquiescent to this. (Obama also has happened to walk back some US positions regarding various things like borders contrary to prior Presidents; he has also tried to get around mandatory cuts to funding for UN agencies that have heightened the status of the the Palestinians.)

There is also the fact that Hamas controls Gaza, quite a large part of where a Palestinian state would be. Not only are the Palestinians trying to get a state by international fiat (this also when they've already been offered their state by Israel*) as opposed to getting their state via negotiation, but they are also bypassing the very [typical, I might add] metrics of what constitutes a state. Oh, and leave aside the fact that Abbas is serving his eighth year of a four-year term position. Does he truly represent the Palestinians?

Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel

Originally Posted by Dialgarules

As an American, I wish the United States would stop taking sides so strongly in these kinds of issues. Instead of having a constantly one-sided policy, I think the U.S. should make its priority to do whatever it can to facilitate peace and stability in the world.

I agree with you, I mean, the reason the US refuses to see Palestine as a state is because they've sided with Israel for so long, and see Palestine as essentially "occupied territory ran by terrorist organisations", and considering that a large amount of the Middle East refuses to see Israel as a state, and will only recognize Palestine, and some of these countries (Iran comes to mind most especially) wish that Isreal would be destroyed.

The reason so many people hate Israel is because Israel isn't just a land, it's a people, which in Judaism and Christianity, is considered to be the people of God, but the Muslims also believe that it's their holy land as well, and it should belong to them, with the word "sharing" not being in their dictionary. If you examine it from a biblical world view, Israel was intended to be God's chosen people, through which the Messiah was to come. The Old Testament is replete with stories whereby they endured horrific wars & exile but God miraculously preserved the Messianic bloodline many times, and Jesus Christ was born, hence the New testament and Christianity.

From a non-biblical view, Israel is a tiny nation, roughly half the size of Lake Michigan, with a population roughly the size of New York City. Despite being a predominately Jewish state, more than twenty percent of its residents are Arab and most Jews in Israel describe themselves as being secular rather than religious, yet if one were to read world press accounts or daily condemnations from the United Nations, you might conclude that Israel is a world power intent on destabilizing Middle East affairs, in fact, Israel is the most militarized nation in the world, let alone the Middle East.

Israel is considered a thorn in the side of the Arab world for one reason because it is a remarkable technological phantasmagoria. Almost every Israeli is engaged in a software scheme. The Jews in this arid nation have made the deserts bloom; they have converted brain power into technical marvels and consequent wealth. By contrast, every nearby Arab nation is dysfunctional, their governments are often totalitarian tyrannical dictatorships whose constitutions are based on religious texts, the people are often poor and uneducated (especially the women), and local officials have been unwilling to convert oil revenue into social benefits, but instead violence and tools of war, such as Iran's nuclear weapons fetish for instance.

In Islam, they claim that if you change your religion from Islam, you are not even considered to be human anymore and must die, and in Islam, it is the ultimate sin for an area of land, once it is ruled by Islam, to revert back to what it was before or to change to something else, especially Jewish, this is probably the reason Muslims are so hostile to other religions, and why the Middle East is so violent is because of their beliefs.

To put it in simpler terms: Muslims essentially think their religion is better than everyone else's religion, and that they are always right and everyone else is wrong and should die. It's violent, hates women, and hates any kind of scientific progress, Islam is basically stuck in the Dark Ages.

All through history, cultures have tried to annihilate Israel, regardless of what they do to attempt to destroy it, they cannot succeed, and the reason is spiritual warfare. What the bible says, in a way, is true, history shows that those who protect Israel will prosper, while those that try to destroy Israel will fall to ruin.

Wow um... you do realize that the violent Muslims are the vast minority? less then 1% if that? We're dealing with a religion that has well over a billion followers... and noted that lots of Muslims do not like their government (look at Iran people despise the theocracy there) but not all muslims wish Israel to fall... and I'd say Christians are no better if not worse then Muslims

Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel

Originally Posted by Dialgarules

As an American, I wish the United States would stop taking sides so strongly in these kinds of issues. Instead of having a constantly one-sided policy, I think the U.S. should make its priority to do whatever it can to facilitate peace and stability in the world.

I agree with you, I mean, the reason the US refuses to see Palestine as a state is because they've sided with Israel for so long, and see Palestine as essentially "occupied territory ran by terrorist organisations", and considering that a large amount of the Middle East refuses to see Israel as a state, and will only recognize Palestine, and some of these countries (Iran comes to mind most especially) wish that Isreal would be destroyed.

The reason so many people hate Israel is because Israel isn't just a land, it's a people, which in Judaism and Christianity, is considered to be the people of God, but the Muslims also believe that it's their holy land as well, and it should belong to them, with the word "sharing" not being in their dictionary. If you examine it from a biblical world view, Israel was intended to be God's chosen people, through which the Messiah was to come. The Old Testament is replete with stories whereby they endured horrific wars & exile but God miraculously preserved the Messianic bloodline many times, and Jesus Christ was born, hence the New testament and Christianity.

From a non-biblical view, Israel is a tiny nation, roughly half the size of Lake Michigan, with a population roughly the size of New York City. Despite being a predominately Jewish state, more than twenty percent of its residents are Arab and most Jews in Israel describe themselves as being secular rather than religious, yet if one were to read world press accounts or daily condemnations from the United Nations, you might conclude that Israel is a world power intent on destabilizing Middle East affairs, in fact, Israel is the most militarized nation in the world, let alone the Middle East.

Israel is considered a thorn in the side of the Arab world for one reason because it is a remarkable technological phantasmagoria. Almost every Israeli is engaged in a software scheme. The Jews in this arid nation have made the deserts bloom; they have converted brain power into technical marvels and consequent wealth. By contrast, every nearby Arab nation is dysfunctional, their governments are often totalitarian tyrannical dictatorships whose constitutions are based on religious texts, the people are often poor and uneducated (especially the women), and local officials have been unwilling to convert oil revenue into social benefits, but instead violence and tools of war, such as Iran's nuclear weapons fetish for instance.

In Islam, they claim that if you change your religion from Islam, you are not even considered to be human anymore and must die, and in Islam, it is the ultimate sin for an area of land, once it is ruled by Islam, to revert back to what it was before or to change to something else, especially Jewish, this is probably the reason Muslims are so hostile to other religions, and why the Middle East is so violent is because of their beliefs.

To put it in simpler terms: Muslims essentially think their religion is better than everyone else's religion, and that they are always right and everyone else is wrong and should die. It's violent, hates women, and hates any kind of scientific progress, Islam is basically stuck in the Dark Ages.

All through history, cultures have tried to annihilate Israel, regardless of what they do to attempt to destroy it, they cannot succeed, and the reason is spiritual warfare. What the bible says, in a way, is true, history shows that those who protect Israel will prosper, while those that try to destroy Israel will fall to ruin.

I was agreeing with you. Lots. Then you started talking about Islam. From that point on... Ugh. First off, Islam isn't different from any other religion in the fact that they think they're superior to everyone else. Secondly, you might as well say that all Christians (regardless of the particular branch of Church they belong to) are relentlessly conservative, bomb abortion clinics, assassinate people, etc. It just isn't the case. It's a very small minority that actually have those views in both Christianity AND Islam.

Back on topic. This is absolutely brilliant for Palestine. It might actually make Israel see that they MUST coexist with each other. They want the same land, they need to share it or they'll both end up destroyed.

Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel

To put it in simpler terms: Muslims essentially think their religion is better than everyone else's religion, and that they are always right and everyone else is wrong and should die. It's violent, hates women, and hates any kind of scientific progress, Islam is basically stuck in the Dark Ages.

There's a difference between Islam and radical Islam.

Yes, there are certainly some human rights issues that would be apparent if the Q'uran was followed by the letter. A lot of Islamic nations are struggling with these issues as well. But things are changing in much of the Muslim world. Women's rights are being improved in many nations. Scientific progress is actually welcomed by Islam, and at the height of the empire just before the rebounding of Rome and the papacy, Arab scientists, alchemists and physicists were the leaders of progress and invention. Even now they're doing some pretty impressive techno-stuff in Dubai and Saudi Arabia.

Islam itself is not stuck in the dark ages, only the crazed loonies who blow themselves up. They are a fractured minority.

On the topic of Palestine: Cool. But ultimately meaningless I bet. I believe they've had "upgraded UN status" before and nothing improved towards peace with Israel or their status as a sovereign nation.

Wow, the Indian democratic farce and vote bank politics strikes again. The Indian govt voted for statehood. What were those fools thinking? Israel is clearly our closest ally in the region and frankly most of the Arab nations or Palestinians are anti-India.

Originally Posted by Caitlin

Arab scientists, alchemists and physicists were the leaders of progress and invention. Even now they're doing some pretty impressive techno-stuff in Dubai and Saudi Arabia.

Islam itself is not stuck in the dark ages, only the crazed loonies who blow themselves up. They are a fractured minority.

On the topic of Palestine: Cool. But ultimately meaningless I bet. I believe they've had "upgraded UN status" before and nothing improved towards peace with Israel or their status as a sovereign nation.

It's interesting how perspective changes things. In the Dark Ages in Medieval Europe, the Arabic states were miles ahead of the European states in terms of science, technology and philosophy. In fact, Europe taking over as the leaders in these categories had nothing to do with European achievement but instead had to do with the Mongol invasions (basically the Mongols trashed much of what we know now as the Arabic states and set them back 500 years).

But back to the topic at hand. It could either be good or it could be bad. This gives Palestine more international power. However, the US still holds their veto on the security council. Which really means that Palestine doesn't gain much of anything from this. We all know that most countries around the world want to see Palestine's rights and territories increased (I'll leave the Arabic states that want Israel wiped off the map out of this for the sake of simplicity) but the US simply won't allow that to happen. Nothing that happens in the UN will change that because of the veto power that the US has. On the same token, Israel will never gain much ground on the international stage because of the same veto power that China has (China is very friendly with the Arabic powers due to, you guessed it, oil).

That being said, this could be a good thing if the two nations start seeing each other as equals. A long shot I know, but hey, they've (they being the Jews and the Muslims, with Catholics thrown in) been fighting over the same patch of land for close to 1500 years (Islam as we know it was founded in 610 AD). It'll take a long shot or two (probably a lot more than two) for that to stop happening.

Originally Posted by GliscorMan

I was agreeing with you. Lots. Then you started talking about Islam. From that point on... Ugh. First off, Islam isn't different from any other religion in the fact that they think they're superior to everyone else. Secondly, you might as well say that all Christians (regardless of the particular branch of Church they belong to) are relentlessly conservative, bomb abortion clinics, assassinate people, etc. It just isn't the case. It's a very small minority that actually have those views in both Christianity AND Islam.

Back on topic. This is absolutely brilliant for Palestine. It might actually make Israel see that they MUST coexist with each other. They want the same land, they need to share it or they'll both end up destroyed.

As a Muslim myself, I couldn't agree more with you. There is a big difference between most Muslims and the radicals. It's bad enough that the amount of anti-Islamic hate sites is ridiculous. We don't need Islamophobia on here.