Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke--now with live coverage! - Page 2

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39
Like Tree31Likes

Thread: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke--now with live coverage!

  1. #16
    Let's get funky! Gama's Avatar Former Head Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,152
    Blog Entries
    68

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by MizuTaipu View Post
    Geez, I didn't know she was that despised in the U.K.

    I don't think people in the U.S. would celebrate in the streets when someone like Jimmy Carter or George W. Bush. dies.
    Literally the single most hated UK politician in living memory by some distance. Hatred for Blair doesn't even hold a candle to it. I don't think Bush or Carter (though I know relatively little about the latter) is really a fair comparison. Maybe Nixon would be a closer comparison in terms of controversy and unpopularity, though I'm not sure, I'm not intimately familiar with US political history.
    Green Zubat and Joshawott like this.

  2. #17
    Fairy Queen Kaori's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Laverre Gym
    Posts
    4,211
    Blog Entries
    81

    Follow Kaori on Tumblr

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke--now with live coverage!

    When all is said and done and I put politics aside, I have to respect her for her tenacity and her confidence regardless of whether I agree with how she used it. Margaret Thatcher was a formidable woman and she did what she decided she wanted to do - which is more than I feel I can say for many politicians.

    Rest in peace, Iron Lady.
    Big Lutz, Jolene and MizuTaipu like this.



    [12:40:02 AM] Karamazov: I call Kaori the chick who could crush me under her tits
    ~ Proud Head of Entertainment, Inc. ~ Fanclub ~ Come join the conversation in the Entertainment, Inc. General Chat Thread!~

  3. #18
    Head Bus Driver Big Lutz's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,318
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Gama View Post
    Literally the single most hated UK politician in living memory by some distance. Hatred for Blair doesn't even hold a candle to it. I don't think Bush or Carter (though I know relatively little about the latter) is really a fair comparison. Maybe Nixon would be a closer comparison in terms of controversy and unpopularity, though I'm not sure, I'm not intimately familiar with US political history.
    I believe when Nixon died, the event was rather subdued, with many people talking about his accomplishments with China and how it honestly changed the dynamic in the world.

    Either way, I honestly think the hatred right now is just a small minority acting out, and not a representation of Britain as a whole, atleast I hope.

    It's interesting to note that in Political Film Class we did cover the end of Thatcher's run as PM, called "The Deal" it is a interesting movie to show, how Labour was forced to adjust their politics in order to gain power, and move into a more centrist position.

  4. #19
    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Blog Entries
    20
    Follow Green Zubat On Twitter Add Green Zubat on Facebook
    Follow Green Zubat on Tumblr Visit Green Zubat's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    Either way, I honestly think the hatred right now is just a small minority acting out, and not a representation of Britain as a whole, atleast I hope.
    Considering that #nowthatchersdead and #nostatefuneral were trending within half an hour of the news (and were going strong for the majority of the day), and not to mention the nearly 1000-strong street parties going on in Glasgow & Brixton, nor her famously bad PR, I am almost certain that her detractors are not small in number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    The woman helped bring a end to the Cold War, and helped revitalize Britain from what could have been a devastating economic fall, Britain, the U.S., and much of the world has alot to thank her for. She will be missed, but now she can find peace with her husband in the afterlife.
    I'm not going to start a debate about her policies, because as Caitlin said this isn't the thread. All I'll say is that, regarding my reaction to Thatcher's death, whilst I agree she did some good (defending the Falklands, acting as a feminist role model (more or less), improving Britain's economy), there's a reason (or five) why she's the most hated UK political figure. As such, whilst I've felt a range of emotions since hearing the news, I can't say that sadness was ever one of them.
    Last edited by Green Zubat; 8th April 2013 at 07:23 PM.
    Joshawott likes this.



    Credit to Missingno. Master for creating this lovely team snap for my sig :)

  5. #20
    Head Bus Driver Big Lutz's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,318
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    Considering that #nowthatchersdead and #nostatefuneral were trending within half an hour of the news (and were going strong for the majority of the day), and not to mention the nearly 1000-strong street parties going on in Glasgow & Brixton, I strongly doubt that her detractors are small in number.
    Umm how does that even come close to representing any more than a small minority in Britain? 1,000 strong party going on in a city of 500,000 means that less than 1% of the entire city has shown up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    I'm not going to start a debate about her policies, because as Caitlin said this isn't the thread. All I'll say is that, regarding my reaction to Thatcher's death, whilst I agree she did some good (defending the Falklands, acting as a feminist role model (more or less), improving Britain's economy), there's a reason (or five) why she's the most hated UK political figure. As such, whilst I've felt a range of emotions since hearing the news, I can't say that sadness was ever one of them.
    And you are free to have those feelings, but like others have said, this isn't the Campaign Bus.

  6. #21
    Let's get funky! Gama's Avatar Former Head Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,152
    Blog Entries
    68

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    Either way, I honestly think the hatred right now is just a small minority acting out, and not a representation of Britain as a whole, atleast I hope.
    I think it's somewhere between the two. An awful lot of people (outside of those celebrating in the streets even) are absolutely overjoyed because she did a lot of damage to a lot of things that people care about: really fucking up the North of England and Scotland being a major one.

    I don't think it's representative of Britain as a whole, but I think it is a sizeable portion of people who are really very, very happy.

    She caused a lot of damage to Britain (even if she did some very good things too) and I think people have legitimate cause for hatred of her. There's a lot of world leaders who people wouldn't even for a second question the right of their people to hate and potentially celebrate the death of. Granted that in most cases these are figures who are much more extreme than Thatcher was, but it shows at least that respecting someone who dies isn't an infinite obligation. There are people in Britain today who are still feeling very serious negative repercussions of decisions that she took, so I would struggle to seriously criticise them for being happy about her death. (I might question what good they think will or has come from it that didn't already come from her coming out of power, but I can at least recognise that it's a natural, understandable, and cathartic reaction to be happy at the news of and even celebrate the death of someone who you see (quite legitimately in many cases) as personally responsible for having an extreme negative impact on your life as it is today.)
    Green Zubat likes this.

  7. #22
    Head Bus Driver Big Lutz's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,318
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke--now with live coverage!

    To get a better idea how Britons feel about her.

    50% say she positively contributed to the country
    34% say she negatively contributed to the country
    25% say she was "Very Good"
    20% say she was "Very Bad"

    Britain divided on Thatcher record, but 50% claim positive contribution – poll | Politics | guardian.co.uk

    Honestly of that 20% that say she was "Very Bad" I would say the numbers are in the single digits of those that have acted out.

  8. #23
    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Blog Entries
    20
    Follow Green Zubat On Twitter Add Green Zubat on Facebook
    Follow Green Zubat on Tumblr Visit Green Zubat's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    Considering that #nowthatchersdead and #nostatefuneral were trending within half an hour of the news (and were going strong for the majority of the day), and not to mention the nearly 1000-strong street parties going on in Glasgow & Brixton, I strongly doubt that her detractors are small in number.
    Umm how does that even come close to representing any more than a small minority in Britain? 1,000 strong party going on in a city of 500,000 means that less than 1% of the entire city has shown up.
    You're missing the point. Such a public outpouring of hatred for a single politician is highly unusual, if not unprecedented IIRC; even 1% of a city showing up to have a street party to celebrate her death is a lot. And again, there were the #nostatefuneral & #nowthatchersdead trends, and of course her she was already famously hated prior to this. All of these signs point to a very large hatedom, not a small minority.

    Of course, don't take my word for it: According to the Guardian, 34% believe she was very bad for the country, or slightly more than 1/3rd of the entire country. Whilst that is a minority, I wouldn't call it small by a long shot.

    EDIT: Lol, you beat me to it, with the exact same survey. Well, the point still stands--a Hell of a lot of people dislike Thatcher, not the small minority you suggest.



    Credit to Missingno. Master for creating this lovely team snap for my sig :)

  9. #24
    Head Bus Driver Big Lutz's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,318
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    EDIT: Lol, you beat me to it, with the exact same survey. Well, the point still stands--a Hell of a lot of people dislike Thatcher, not the small minority you suggest.
    20% heavily hate her, of that I just cannot see that many actually taking it out on the street in some dance, or engage in some of the sexism we are seeing. It may just be me, but I believe the vast majority of people have better things to do.

  10. #25
    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Blog Entries
    20
    Follow Green Zubat On Twitter Add Green Zubat on Facebook
    Follow Green Zubat on Tumblr Visit Green Zubat's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    EDIT: Lol, you beat me to it, with the exact same survey. Well, the point still stands--a Hell of a lot of people dislike Thatcher, not the small minority you suggest.
    20% heavily hate her, of that I just cannot see that many actually taking it out on the street in some dance, or engage in some of the sexism we are seeing.
    You said that people displaying hatred for Thatcher were in the small minority, not heavy hatred. Clearly, at least 20+ percent of the UK do hate her to some degree, and more than 1/5th (maximum 1/3rd) of the UK is hardly a small minority.


    It may just be me, but I believe the vast majority of people have better things to do.
    Somehow, I have a feeling that the families affected by the sky rocketing unemployment & high suicide rates during Thatcher's reign might beg to differ. Mainly because I'm from one, and I find your implication that people are somehow wasting their time by being bitter over the Iron Lady's more draconian actions deeply offensive. I'll hold my tongue regarding full extent of my sentiment towards Thatcher, but don't tell me I'm being silly for feeling that way in the first place.
    Last edited by Green Zubat; 8th April 2013 at 08:11 PM.
    Joshawott likes this.



    Credit to Missingno. Master for creating this lovely team snap for my sig :)

  11. #26
    Head Bus Driver Big Lutz's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,318
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    You said that people displaying hatred for Thatcher were in the small minority, not heavy hatred. clearly, at least 20+ percent of the UK do hate her to some degree, and more than 1/5th (maximum 1/3rd) of the UK is hardly a small minority.
    Well I am going to separate it from people who disagree with her policy, and people who heavily disliked her, as you can disagree with a person's politics with out going out to celebrate their death. Having 1/5th of the country hate you is something practically every politician will face no matter what. Of that 1/5th how many people are actively going out partying? If those parties you cited are any indicating: half of one percent. That means a tiny tiny minority is actually verbalizing that dislike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    Somehow, I have a feeling that the families affected by the sky rocketing unemployment & high suicide rates during Thatcher's reign might beg to differ. Mainly because I'm from one, and I find your implication that people are somehow wasting their time being bitter over the Iron Lady's more draconian actions deeply offensive. I'll hold my tongue regarding full extent of my sentiment towards Thatcher, but don't tell me I'm pathetic for feeling that way in the first place.
    I never said you were pathetic or silly, it's just that I would think the vast majority of the country has kids to tend to, television to watch, jobs to work on, etc etc, than going out and partying because some one died.

  12. #27
    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Blog Entries
    20
    Follow Green Zubat On Twitter Add Green Zubat on Facebook
    Follow Green Zubat on Tumblr Visit Green Zubat's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    You said that people displaying hatred for Thatcher were in the small minority, not heavy hatred. clearly, at least 20+ percent of the UK do hate her to some degree, and more than 1/5th (maximum 1/3rd) of the UK is hardly a small minority.
    Well I am going to separate it from people who disagree with her policy, and people who heavily disliked her, as you can disagree with a person's politics with out going out to celebrate their death. Having 1/5th of the country hate you is something practically every politician will face no matter what. Of that 1/5th how many people are actively going out partying? If those parties you cited are any indicating: half of one percent. That means a tiny tiny minority is actually verbalizing that dislike.
    Well yes, the parties are a vocal minority, but you can verbalise contempt in ways other than partying. As I mentioned, #nostatefuneral & #nowthatchersdead were both trending almost immediately in the wake of the news, and remained strong for most of the day in the UK. This implies a lot of people are verbalising their anti-thatcher sentiment to varying degrees, and both the survey and the street parties (just by the sheer fact that they're happened) support this idea, as does her famously terrible rep.



    Credit to Missingno. Master for creating this lovely team snap for my sig :)

  13. #28
    Head Bus Driver Big Lutz's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,318
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    Well yes, the parties are a vocal minority, but you can verbalise contempt in ways other than partying. As I mentioned, #nostatefuneral & #nowthatchersdead were both trending almost immediately in the wake of the news, and remained strong for most of the day in the UK.
    Okay, twitter is a terrible way to poll anything. How many of those tweets were News Organizations reporting on the twitter story? How many of them were twitter bots used to hype up a hashtag? How many people were using those hashtags to attack those that were Anti Thatcher through retweets? How many people saw the "nowthatchersdead" and thought it said "Now That Cher's Dead". Most of all how many tweets does it actually take to get something trending? 1% of the British Population? .5%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    This implies a lot of people are verbalising their anti-thatcher sentiment to varying degrees, and both the survey and the street parties (just by the sheer fact that they're happened) support this idea, as does her famously terrible rep.
    Okay her "famously terrible rep" shows 50% of the country thought her policies helped the country, that is a better approval rating than the current U.S. President! Second the street parties represent 1/5th of 1 percent of the population of atleast Glasgow. That isn't exactly the most rousing statement of disapproval.

  14. #29
    I'm [not] a pirate Jolene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,233
    Blog Entries
    44

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke--now with live coverage!

    Since we are in a Pokemon forum, I would like to take a moment to point out the Margaret Thatcher reference in Black and White 2.

    In the type expert tournament in the PWT, there is a steel type trainer named Margaret. She is called Thatcher in the Japanese version.
    Last edited by Jolene; 8th April 2013 at 09:05 PM.

    Y > X

  15. #30
    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Blog Entries
    20
    Follow Green Zubat On Twitter Add Green Zubat on Facebook
    Follow Green Zubat on Tumblr Visit Green Zubat's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Margaret Thatcher dead following stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    This implies a lot of people are verbalising their anti-thatcher sentiment to varying degrees, and both the survey and the street parties (just by the sheer fact that they're happened) support this idea, as does her famously terrible rep.
    Okay her "famously terrible rep" shows 50% of the country thought her policies helped the country, that is a better approval rating than the current U.S. President!
    Yeah, current being the key word. During her time in power, Thatcher set new lows for public opinion of politicians, with her approval rating falling to just 25% in 1981, the lowest of any Prime Minister up til then. It's only a combination of the time elapsed since her position in power, dementia & finally death that's causing people to feel sorry for her again, and hence allowing her approval rating to creep back up.

    Also, since I missed this earlier:

    Having 1/5th of the country hate you is something practically every politician will face no matter what.
    Oh, but 1/5th of the UK doesn't just hate Thatcher--they heavily hate her, and that's decades after the fact. As I mentioned above, when Thatcher was in power she set a record low for public approval, and eventually pissed everyone off so much that she got a knife in the back from her own cabinet. Thatcher was (and still is) the target of obscenely high &widespread degrees of hatred, which relatively few politicians (both here and abroad) have since managed to replicate.

    Second the street parties represent 1/5th of 1 percent of the population of atleast Glasgow. That isn't exactly the most rousing statement of disapproval.
    Actually, given that 300 people attended, and the population of Glasgow is ~600,000, it's more like 0.5%. Nevertheless, the fact that these street parties are happening at all is highly unusual, and a testament to how much a proportion of the country continues to despise Baroness Thatcher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Lutz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Zubat View Post
    Well yes, the parties are a vocal minority, but you can verbalise contempt in ways other than partying. As I mentioned, #nostatefuneral & #nowthatchersdead were both trending almost immediately in the wake of the news, and remained strong for most of the day in the UK.
    Okay, twitter is a terrible way to poll anything. How many of those tweets were News Organizations reporting on the twitter story? How many of them were twitter bots used to hype up a hashtag? How many people were using those hashtags to attack those that were Anti Thatcher through retweets? How many people saw the "nowthatchersdead" and thought it said "Now That Cher's Dead". Most of all how many tweets does it actually take to get something trending? 1% of the British Population? .5%?
    I don't see your point. As we've already said, 1/5th of the country heavily hate her, and the public outpouring of malice directed towards her doesn't seem to contradict this. Yes, Thatcher has her supporters, but there is clearly a significant portion of people out there that have issues with the Iron Lady, and--whilst not in the minority--they are far from small in number. Sure, not all of them are verbalising their distaste for Thatcher, but that doesn't make their problems with her any less real. At best, Thatcher was (and remains to be) a highly divisive figure, as demonstrated by this debate, and the most hated UK political figure to date at worst (as mentioned above).
    Last edited by Green Zubat; 8th April 2013 at 10:23 PM.



    Credit to Missingno. Master for creating this lovely team snap for my sig :)

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •