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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    I'm just curious as to what people's response will be in this case:

    If in a few months time we read a follow up article and we find out the bullying has been reduced, will you all stick by your false assumption that it was wrong to let her have it?
    Would you desire to force Disney like storylines onto real life people over ride this girls wish to stop bullying. If the bullying does go away will you say, she should have not changed, which would have resulted in more bullying?

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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    I wouldn't follow any desire to force anything onto anyone. I don't care what stops the bullying or doesn't when we are discussing a minor feeling the need to get plastic surgery at a time she isn't necessarily capable or legally able to make that decision for herself because somebody else told her she isn't pretty enough. The "Disney like storyline" here is yours, in my opinion. You can improve yourself all you like but until you accept yourself regardless of whether you are healthy/stereotypically attractive/being bullied or not, you will never have true confidence. It's not just the bullying. I've been there too. I'm glad you've managed to improve yourself and survive that situation. But you did so by improving yourself in a mostly natural way - without surgery you weren't even old enough to independently consent to. This is bigger than bullying or plastic surgery, this is us sending out the message that plastic surgery is possibly the answer if you're being bullied, which is entirely wrong. Things don't suddenly get better just because you're pretty in other people's eyes. Bullies and internal demons always find more to prey on. You can give us as many anecdotes of failed counselling as you want, but you too need to be mentally robust and confident regardless of how much better you do or don't look whether you do or don't change yourself. It's a big ask, but editing your physical appearance, particularly through surgery, should not be necessary or a fix for bullying - self assured confidence and appreciation of our natural selves should be. By saying that people who are being bullied should be able to consider plastic surgery as a solution, you are enabling and validating the bullies, not helping the person who, at the end of the day, quite possibly still won't have any genuine confidence if they can't accept themselves without wanting to change things.

    If one's confidence and ability to not be affected by bullies hangs on artifically changing their appearance I'd question whether they will ever truly be happy in themselves. I certainly never want any child of mine thinking cosmetic surgery is a good idea unless they're trying to restore their former appearance after an accident or something. The idea that anyone should ever be allowed/encouraged go to such lengths to change their appearance just because someone else is saying they're not pretty sickens me.

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  3. #18
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebelle View Post
    I wouldn't follow any desire to force anything onto anyone. I don't care what stops the bullying or doesn't when we are discussing a minor feeling the need to get plastic surgery at a time she isn't necessarily capable or legally able to make that decision for herself because somebody else told her she isn't pretty enough. The "Disney like storyline" here is yours, in my opinion. You can improve yourself all you like but until you accept yourself regardless of whether you are healthy/stereotypically attractive/being bullied or not, you will never have true confidence. It's not just the bullying. I've been there too. I'm glad you've managed to improve yourself and survive that situation. But you did so by improving yourself in a mostly natural way - without surgery you weren't even old enough to independently consent to. This is bigger than bullying or plastic surgery, this is us sending out the message that plastic surgery is possibly the answer if you're being bullied, which is entirely wrong. Things don't suddenly get better just because you're pretty in other people's eyes. Bullies and internal demons always find more to prey on. You can give us as many anecdotes of failed counselling as you want, but you too need to be mentally robust and confident regardless of how much better you do or don't look whether you do or don't change yourself. It's a big ask, but editing your physical appearance, particularly through surgery, should not be necessary or a fix for bullying - self assured confidence and appreciation of our natural selves should be. By saying that people who are being bullied should be able to consider plastic surgery as a solution, you are enabling and validating the bullies, not helping the person who, at the end of the day, quite possibly still won't have any genuine confidence if they can't accept themselves without wanting to change things.

    If one's confidence and ability to not be affected by bullies hangs on artifically changing their appearance I'd question whether they will ever truly be happy in themselves. I certainly never want any child of mine thinking cosmetic surgery is a good idea unless they're trying to restore their former appearance after an accident or something. The idea that anyone should ever be allowed/encouraged go to such lengths to change their appearance just because someone else is saying they're not pretty sickens me.
    How is accepting that everything isn't all rosey and peachy following a disney style storyline! Be true to yourself, be who you are etc, is a lovely message, but it just ends up getting kids bullied. I didn't get the Disney ending where all the kids realised they were wrong and stopped bullying, you're living in a fairytale where good always wins, unfortunately in this world it doesn't.

    I didn't get surgery but I had to take high strength medication to fight both acne and my weight, my parents had to consent to both. If they didn't allow me to go through with it, and forced me to stay as I was, and put up with the bullying I would have resented them for it, or as I mentioned earlier not be here today.

    I'm not saying change is the only solution, the thing with bullying is that it's not a one size fits all solution to the problem. I don't think you would have any right to stop someone going through with something just because it wasn't being true to themselves etc. If you have the mental strength to cope with such horrible bullying and taunts than by God you are lucky and I say more power to you. But you've got to accept not everyone is as mentally strong as you, suicide rates are alarmingly high.

    I think we should put as many options on the table as possible, to fight bullying, of course we need to keep reiterating that bullying is wrong and punishing bullies, but in the meantime, while bullying does continue, as many options need to be available as possible, and this Charity has probably helped far more people by offering these surgeries than a charity that just puts up posters and gives talks in schools.

    The idea that anyone should ever be allowed/encouraged go to such lengths to change their appearance just because someone else is saying they're not pretty sickens me.
    The idea that you would seek to impose your view on others and not let them change their physical appearance to escape bullying sickens me, and quite frankly it comes across as quite naive. People don't do this ad hoc, she didn't wake up and think, oh I know I want plastic surgery today, find me a charity that will pay for it! Just stop and think how much mental pain someone must be going through to consider doing that! Do you think the parents wanted their little girl to have plastic surgery, probably not, but they probably did it because they couldn't stand to see their daughter going through such abuse, and again your generic generalisations about it shouldn't be allowed truly show a lack of understanding.

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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    I'm just curious as to what people's response will be in this case:

    If in a few months time we read a follow up article and we find out the bullying has been reduced, will you all stick by your false assumption that it was wrong to let her have it?
    It doesn't necessarily follow that it's a result of the surgery. Correlation =/= causation. It could also be that the kids are a few months older and more mature, for example.

    Would you desire to force Disney like storylines onto real life people over ride this girls wish to stop bullying. If the bullying does go away will you say, she should have not changed, which would have resulted in more bullying?
    Are you even reading what people have responded to you with? It isn't just that people want a "Disney-like storyline" to fight bullying; the "Born This Way approach" that you lambast so much still requires hard work. Far more, in fact, that just telling kids to go get plastic surgery. Did you miss where people were saying that the issue is that this will not work because bullies will find any excuse to bully? That doesn't sound like excessive idealism to me. Stop with the strawmen.

    Also to respond to your previous post, I was bullied a lot, yes, in school. (And just to add, like Mitsuru below I also developed social anxiety as a result.) I think that's a pretty stupid distinction to make because I'm fairly sure everyone has been teased in school at least a little bit, and just because you don't have personal experience with it doesn't mean that you can't know anything about it by, say, reading statistics and studies on the subject. A lot of what you're going on are personal anecdotes which, while not illegitimate, are hardly anything to base policy on. You have to look at how it applies to a much wider range of people, not just one person.

    For example, you totally dismiss the importance of counseling by saying "I had 3 different counsellors none of them worked." Three bad counselors is not nearly enough to completely dismiss the usefulness of counseling for all people everywhere. I've gone through far more than three counselors; most of them were good, some of them weren't. Even I wouldn't say my personal experiences alone should be used to pronounce a verdict of the effectiveness of counseling. Like most professions, you have people who are really good at their job, people who are not, and people inbetween. And there are different methods of counseling, which work or don't work on different people. A handful of individuals is hardly representative of the counseling profession as a whole.
    Last edited by Misato Katsuragi; 5th August 2012 at 05:00 PM.

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  5. #20
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    As a result of bullying in middle school, I developed social anxiety disorder. Consequentially, I stopped attending school and my grades were failing. Now, I won't be able to graduate until 2014, two years late.

    However, last year, as a last-ditch effort, my mom enrolled me in an open school. For those who don't know, open schools are alternative schools which teach students differently than at a regular school. Their focus is to provide a safe, positive environment for students to learn in. They also focus on teamwork and character building and all of the teachers go by their first name. This is primarily to establish relationships between students and their teachers, unlike regular schools, which provide much colder, professional approaches.

    While I still have some problems, this different environment has greatly helped me with my disorder. I was previously hiding in the kitchen from Mormons, but now I can socialize with people when necessary. Because of the alternative methods taught, the fellow students are respectful and, quite honestly, upstanding members of society. Even I do attend after-school projects, including a philanthropy group.
    So, while I completely understand the societal pressure and negativity from bullying, I think the root cause is the bullies themselves and the environment. I think we need to tackle conventional school systems and offer alternative methods, especially for troubled kids. It's not for everyone, but I know it works.

    Now, if this girl was 18 and of sound mind, I would say that she has every right to change her appearance, as it's her body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    If in a few months time we read a follow up article and we find out the bullying has been reduced, will you all stick by your false assumption that it was wrong to let her have it?
    It's entirely your opinion that it's "false", however I'm positive that the bullying will not cease. In any case, I do stick by my belief that it is wrong.

    I must ask, though. Come ten years' time and she realizes how insignificant those bullies were to her, will she still stand by her decision? Or, will she understand it was a hasty choice in her desperation to be normal?
    What sort of depth is there to a person who is unable to love themselves as they are; a person who never learned to do that, rather becoming something else? Who can justify something so vain as only caring for one's appearance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    How is accepting that everything isn't all rosey and peachy following a disney style storyline! Be true to yourself, be who you are etc, is a lovely message, but it just ends up getting kids bullied. I didn't get the Disney ending where all the kids realised they were wrong and stopped bullying, you're living in a fairytale where good always wins, unfortunately in this world it doesn't.
    Not necessarily.
    However, if we don't continue to strive for these "Disney-tales", I'm afraid that everything will become worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    I'm not saying change is the only solution, the thing with bullying is that it's not a one size fits all solution to the problem.

    I think we should put as many options on the table as possible, to fight bullying, of course we need to keep reiterating that bullying is wrong and punishing bullies, but in the meantime, while bullying does continue, as many options need to be available as possible, and this Charity has probably helped far more people by offering these surgeries than a charity that just puts up posters and gives talks in schools.
    Changing oneself shouldn't be a "solution".
    As I've said above, we should rather be focusing on dealing with bullies, rather than fixing our own differences. Not necessarily with disdain, as that's just adding to the fire, but with tolerance. We need to teach children tolerance and acceptance of differences. Unfortunately, that isn't what we're doing. We're teaching people to be competitive and self-serving.

    The idea that you would seek to impose your view on others and not let them change their physical appearance to escape bullying sickens me, and quite frankly it comes across as quite naive. People don't do this ad hoc, she didn't wake up and think, oh I know I want plastic surgery today, find me a charity that will pay for it! Just stop and think how much mental pain someone must be going through to consider doing that! Do you think the parents wanted their little girl to have plastic surgery, probably not, but they probably did it because they couldn't stand to see their daughter going through such abuse, and again your generic generalisations about it shouldn't be allowed truly show a lack of understanding.
    The only extent we're "imposing our views" is by expressing them (and, surprise, people are generally supposed to do that). As far as actual prevention, though, there are two issues with the situation.
    1) She's underage, and unable to legally make the decision for herself.
    2) From a moral standpoint, it's an "easy" way out. What does it teach her to say, "Oh, people don't like my differences. I'll change to become more like those who abuse me." This form of bullying likely can be avoided if she had removed herself from the situation. As aforementioned, open schools are an excellent alternative.

    You're obviously very emotional about this, and it's alright that you were able to see something that could legitimately prove problems in your life and improve on that, but this girl saw something that other people didn't like about her and changed herself to avoid subjective ridicule. Ridicule, I might add, that would likely pass with time.
    Being fat and being genetically different (that is, looking different) are two very distinct situations. The former tends to have many health complications, while the latter does not.
    Her life was not directly threatened because she looked different than everybody else. She was only bullied because other children her age behave terribly towards each other, especially if they could find something obvious and easy to attack.
    Whereas, if she was fat, she could find other, safer alternatives to losing weight, including instructions for healthier lifestyles. Frankly, that's where the attention should be focused on. Not on surgery.

    In any case, there's no need to change what cannot be helped and what doesn't prove inherently detrimental. There is absolutely nothing wrong with looking differently, and it's the bullies who are the root problem.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    @Mitsuru; It's probably nitpicky, but weight is a result of a genetic difference much of the time; there are people whose genes will never cause them to gain weight no matter how much they eat, people who will always be heavy even if they eat nothing but sprouts, and then most people who are somewhere in-between. And being overweight is not necessarily life-threatening and not necessarily something that requires a change for medical reasons (especially when compared to, say, obesity). But you are right that it is generally much easier to change your weight than your face, and it's a less permanent change, and therefore it shouldn't be compared.

    Otherwise I completely agree with your post.

    Another issue with changing your face when you're 14 is, as a lot of commenters pointed out in the original article, she is still growing. A lot of people look gawky at that age but later grow into their features. Even some of the most attractive celebrities out there, if you look at pictures of them as young teenagers, looked weird as all get-out at that age. That's part of the reason that plastic surgery is generally not recommended for someone who is that age except in the case of it interfering with their daily lives (e.g. breast reduction surgery for girls with breasts that are so large they're giving them back problems).
    Last edited by Misato Katsuragi; 5th August 2012 at 05:08 PM.

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  7. #22

    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    I personally can't wait to see what new frontiers in bullying prevention this opens up. Perhaps a group will form that helps bullied gay children turn straight, and another that turns bullied children of color white.

    This reminds me of when certain pieces of media portray bullying one of the negative effects of childhood obesity, as if being overweight is the actual problem rather than the bullies.

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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Whether or not the world is good/rosey should not be a reason to enable others to continue to bully each other. As I have said, Therian, I have experienced such problems myself. I was bullied for many years and have been through three counsellors myself for social anxieties and depression, only recently finding a psychologist who works with me personally even slightly. I have also had harsh dermatological treatments my parents had to agree to. I have, most definitely, spent many hours of my childhood and adolescence plotting plastic surgery and all manner of interventions to my natural appearance, particularly at the gawky stage I got bullied for around 12. But I grew into things. I got healthier. I kept trying to get help. I stood up to bullies in my own ways and now I am here and intact after contemplating the same miserable things you and other victims of bullying and sufferers of mental illnesses have. But I can still say that by no means would I allow my child to have plastic surgery for something they were being bullied over, because whether it's easy/idealistic or not, I won't teach my children that they should change things about themselves because others have made them feel bad about them. We are as we are and only see something wrong with ourselves when it doesn't fit with what others say we should be. For that reason alone I could never let my child go without an inherent appreciation of themselves because I know from experience that until you have that unconditional personal confidence and assurance building up within, what anyone and everyone does or doesn't say/think of you can sway your feelings about yourself so very much - whether you are what others would consider "ugly" or the most beautiful person on Earth.

    If there was anything at all that should've been changed about this young woman it was that she lacked the self appreciation to not want to surgically change her own face, certainly not how that face looked. The bullies are the problem and I find it deeply sad that a young woman with absolutely nothing wrong with her felt the need to (and was allowed to) surgically interfere with a still temporary appearance under the guise that it would prevent bullying and make her truly confident when really the problem is with the bullies and with the lack of true confidence inside of their victim.
    Last edited by Kaori; 5th August 2012 at 06:10 PM.

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  9. #24
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Ebelle if that worked for you I am happy for you, genuinely I am and I'm not just saying that. But you've got to accept others are not as fortunate as you. While I agree with continuing to work at solving the problem, and agree it's wrong people are forced into this, I don't think anyone should be stopped from seeking this help. It's very easy to sit here now as a teenager and say how you would act if it were your own child getting bullied, but I'd bet you'd act very differently if god forbid the situation should ever occur. If you were a parent watching your child go through this, and they were pleading with you to get this quick fix, I think most people would.

    It's great that so many here have overcome bullying and are now happy normal people, but don't think everyone is as fortunate as you, when kids are being bullied for something they can't change such as their sexuality it can often lead to suicide. Now obviously the ideal world no one would get bullied for their sexuality, but if I had an LGBT child getting bullied obviously I'd go through the school and things first, but I would also encourage them to maybe tone it down and change aspects of their behaviour. Is it right that they'd have to go through with that, NO OF COURSE NOT ITS VERY SAD, but I'd rather my child not be themselves to the full extent than get bullied into suicide.

    The same goes for this girl, I'm sure the parents were heartbroken about her getting plastic surgery, but when it came down to, send her off everyday to be bullied and risk the consequences, or take this route which could POSSIBLY work (works for some, doesnt work for others) they took that route and I think they should be applauded for that. Not everyone is as fortunate as you Ebelle, don't think if you can get through it that everyone can!

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Unless the person is being bullied solely for a physical reason, plastic surgery would only be superficial at best. Does anybody remember the stories that teach about inner beauty?

    Judging from firsthand experience as well as reading accounts, people are usually bullied for multiple reasons. The bullies come up with more excuses that they see fit, and sometimes they turn to lies to perpetuate their little "fun" of making someone miserable.

    They don't like the look on someone's face? They bully. Then they learn that the person has a less than optimal social life? They keep bullying. They misheard something the victim said? Turn it into an exagerrated lie to keep bullying them.

    It's elementary school stupidity that grows during the rest of their educational careers.

  11. #26
    Execute with No Mercy! Mitsuru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    While I agree with continuing to work at solving the problem, and agree it's wrong people are forced into this, I don't think anyone should be stopped from seeking this help.
    I don't think it's seeking effective help, so much as it is the means of such.

    This girl had more options. If not direct counseling, perhaps a more serious psychiatrist. If not something like that, then there's always the option of alternative schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    If you were a parent watching your child go through this, and they were pleading with you to get this quick fix, I think most people would.
    That's the problem. It's a quick fix. A temporary one at that.
    She'll likely need to go through more procedures as she ages. That's going to be a costly endeavor and I doubt this organization will back her up once she's older.

    In another perspective, what's to stop the bullying from calling this girl a "whore" or "slut" because she had plastic surgery done, or even just using that to criticize her? How would that be any better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    It's great that so many here have overcome bullying and are now happy normal people
    I'm far from. Considerably closer than before, sure, but I'm still scarred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    but don't think everyone is as fortunate as you, when kids are being bullied for something they can't change such as their sexuality it can often lead to suicide. Now obviously the ideal world no one would get bullied for their sexuality, but if I had an LGBT child getting bullied obviously I'd go through the school and things first, but I would also encourage them to maybe tone it down and change aspects of their behaviour.
    I find this infuriating, to be honest.
    I really don't care for effeminate men, as I'm personally much more subdued, but I would never make my child be anything else than what they are. Nor would I force anyone to be anything else. What right do you have to tell someone to stop being themselves? Evasive to bullying or not, a person's identity is more important than appearances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    Is it right that they'd have to go through with that, NO OF COURSE NOT ITS VERY SAD, but I'd rather my child not be themselves to the full extent than get bullied into suicide.
    There are options. Suicide is completely preventable.
    Let alone, I'd rather somebody lived and died being secure in their identity than hiding as something else.

    If people criticized something of my natural being, I wouldn't hide it.
    I have bushy eyebrows, long eyelashes, a "bulbous" nose, large lips and my hair naturally comes in two colors. I'm not going to change any of these things, nor should anyone else feel they have to.

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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Changing yourself is not a bad thing, mind. Be who you are has never been particularly good advice (it is, in fact, horrible). Be who you can be is much better. Be who you are encourage people to wallow in their personality flaws (and we all have them, including - especially - the bullies). Be who you can be is a call to constantly improve yourself, to diminish your weakness and strengthen your strengths.

    If the bullying highlight what appears to be a legitimate personality flaw to you, work on it. The flaw doesn't excuse the bully, and dealing with the flaw might not deal with the bully, but if you are being picked on about something you think they're right about...it's in your power to change it.

    That, of course, applies to personality, not outward look. In terms of outward look, while I have nothing against plastic surgery teenagers shouldn't be getting it, and it certainly shouldn't be proposed as a solution to bullying (it isn't, any way).
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  13. #28
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    If the bullied girl wants the surgery, then I don't see why not.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    This is an absolute waste of resources and terrible parenting. Just the fact that she knew there were procedures out there to reduce the size of her ears at the age of 10 shows just how hopeless our society is. Corrective surgery exists for the purpose of correcting defects or injuries. Not trimming down some kid's ears. My brother got plastic surgery when he was 14 because he ran face first into a trailer while playing manhunt and had a huge gash across his forehead. If it weren't for that doctor he'd probably still look fucked up. There's a very important reason for this field of medicine. Unfortunately it's gotten so muddled by our current culture that things like surgery for things other than defects becomes an option. That girl is still growing into her body, and her parents not realizing that and just looking for the quick fix is completely irresponsible of them.

    I don't fault the girl at all. She's young, doesn't really know better, and not coming from a great place. In 10 years she'll look back and think it was a pretty dumb thing to do. It's unfortunate that her parents are irresponsible enough, and quite frankly dumb enough, to go along with this. It's also absolutely irresponsible of the doctors who most definitely know better but are doing it anyway.

    The entire field of medicine is so fucked up these days and concerned so much more with wanking off pharmaceutical companies than actually getting people better, but that's a completely different topic I could go off about, but I won't.

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    Default Re: Free Plastic Surgery for Bullying Victims: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsuru View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    but don't think everyone is as fortunate as you, when kids are being bullied for something they can't change such as their sexuality it can often lead to suicide. Now obviously the ideal world no one would get bullied for their sexuality, but if I had an LGBT child getting bullied obviously I'd go through the school and things first, but I would also encourage them to maybe tone it down and change aspects of their behaviour.
    I find this infuriating, to be honest.
    I really don't care for effeminate men, as I'm personally much more subdued, but I would never make my child be anything else than what they are. Nor would I force anyone to be anything else. What right do you have to tell someone to stop being themselves? Evasive to bullying or not, a person's identity is more important than appearances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Therian View Post
    Is it right that they'd have to go through with that, NO OF COURSE NOT ITS VERY SAD, but I'd rather my child not be themselves to the full extent than get bullied into suicide.
    There are options. Suicide is completely preventable.
    Let alone, I'd rather somebody lived and died being secure in their identity than hiding as something else.

    WOAH WOAH WOAH hold up, am I reading you right? First of all, suicide happens, that's a fact, sometimes someones life is so miserable they see it as the only way out. But I think you need to clear something up

    Are you saying that you would rather someone be their full self, have a horrible time and commit suicide than tone down aspects of their personality?

    If we look at it in order of preference

    I think everyone's first preference would be that we could all be ourselves and not get bullied.

    But if I was a parent of a bullied child, and the first preference was unavavailable due to the scummy world we live in, my 2nd preference would be that I'd rather my child toned it down and tried to avoid the bullying and I'd still have my child (who could still be himself at home), than have them suffer the full extent of that bullying, which can lead to suicide. And you keep mentioning how everyone's got to go into counselling because apparently that makes the pain go away (IT DOESNT) but most of the time kids who go for suicide, parents may be aware they are getting bullied (sometimes they don't even know) but before a counsellor even comes into the equation the child has done something drastic.

    I think most of the people here lambasting the parents are talking absolute rubbish, Great Lover if you saw someone getting bullied your own child, and refused to help, then shame on you, the only thing that would happen is the child would resent their parents for seeing them as blocking their escape.

    Also now, she has benefited from that bullying in a way, whoever bullied her the jokes on them, because now she is much more attractive, and will hopefully be getting attention from the opposite sex (or same sex if she wants that) OF COURSE that's not the reason to go in for it, something like that shouldn't be part of the decision making process, but it is a nice positive side effect. Having people show an interest in you in that way does a lot for your confidence, more than any guy in a chair with a pen could do.
    Last edited by Therian; 6th August 2012 at 04:01 AM.

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