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    Default The Church of Tim Tebow

    If you've watched or participated in any sports discussion this last year, I'm sure you've heard the name "Tim Tebow" before. Arguably one of the most polarizing players of the last couple years, Tebow is know not only for his displays of faith, but for "Tebow Time", aka his domination of the fourth quarter.

    What do you guys think about Tebow? Good quarterback? Good athlete? Or something inbetween?

    also, enjoy this video.

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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    I think the entire Tebow Mania that is occurring right now is very comedic.

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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicoleta01 View Post
    I think the entire Tebow Mania that is occurring right now is very comedic.
    Did you see today's game? Glorious.
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow



    Marshawn Lynch would be proud.
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    I enjoy the Tebow. Mostly because I'm in love with Colorado, but still.

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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    He's a great athlete but he annoys me as a person. A lot.

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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by hurristat View Post
    He's a great athlete but he annoys me as a person. A lot.
    why?
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Good athlete, god awful quarterback.

    He's a terrific runner but I can throw a football better than him (yes, this is a bit of sarcasm, but the point is relevant). He misses throws that most NFL quarterbacks make in their sleep and he's leagues away from even approaching the passing skills of Brees, Brady and Rodgers.

    The Broncos win because they have the number one running game in the NFL and a very dangerous defense. Not because Tebow is a skilled passer.
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    I find the amount of attention Tebow has received recently to be strange. I don't follow football, so take that as you will.

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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by Hide in Plain Sight View Post
    Good athlete, god awful quarterback.

    He's a terrific runner but I can throw a football better than him (yes, this is a bit of sarcasm, but the point is relevant). He misses throws that most NFL quarterbacks make in their sleep and he's leagues away from even approaching the passing skills of Brees, Brady and Rodgers.

    The Broncos win because they have the number one running game in the NFL and a very dangerous defense. Not because Tebow is a skilled passer.
    316 yards passing, 131 yards rushing... 2 passing TDs, 1 TD he ran in... running game really won it for him (against the number 1 defense in the NFL). His completion percent wasn't spectacular, yet I saw 4-5 passes that hit the receiver in the numbers, but they dropped it. Had they caught those passes he woulda had a fantastic completion percentage. I'm not saying Tebow is an elite QB, but his O-line gives him the time to make the passes, and he has show he can make them. I think the biggest reason he looked so good today was because they opened it up for him and stopped playing so safe.

    To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out and has another great throwing game against the Pats next weekend. The Pats are my team, but their secondary is atrocious and their pass rush isn't that great. He will have time to throw and the receivers will probably make quite a few yards after the catch. Doesn't mean I want him to win >_>;
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuness View Post
    316 yards passing, 131 yards rushing... 2 passing TDs, 1 TD he ran in... running game really won it for him (against the number 1 defense in the NFL). His completion percent wasn't spectacular, yet I saw 4-5 passes that hit the receiver in the numbers, but they dropped it. Had they caught those passes he woulda had a fantastic completion percentage. I'm not saying Tebow is an elite QB, but his O-line gives him the time to make the passes, and he has show he can make them. I think the biggest reason he looked so good today was because they opened it up for him and stopped playing so safe.

    To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out and has another great throwing game against the Pats next weekend. The Pats are my team, but their secondary is atrocious and their pass rush isn't that great. He will have time to throw and the receivers will probably make quite a few yards after the catch. Doesn't mean I want him to win >_>;
    That 316 yard figure is extremely misleading. Take the last play for instance. Tebow throws a fifteen yard pass (which by the way was a high throw that nearly missed an open man) that Thomas takes seventy yards more for the touchdown. Below-average throw by Tebow, fantastic play by the wideout.

    Not to say Tebow didn't make key throws and runs to help Denver win, because he definitely had a good game. If he hadn't, Denver wouldn't be advancing to play New England next week. And as a Boston native, I'm expecting Tebow to have a huge game due to the fact that the Pats have a secondary composed of fifth stringers, castoff free agents and a converted wideout. He'll probably throw for 300 yards again, but Brady will make him look foolish in comparison.
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by Hide in Plain Sight View Post
    That 316 yard figure is extremely misleading. Take the last play for instance. Tebow throws a fifteen yard pass (which by the way was a high throw that nearly missed an open man) that Thomas takes seventy yards more for the touchdown. Below-average throw by Tebow, fantastic play by the wideout.

    Not to say Tebow didn't make key throws and runs to help Denver win, because he definitely had a good game. If he hadn't, Denver wouldn't be advancing to play New England next week. And as a Boston native, I'm expecting Tebow to have a huge game due to the fact that the Pats have a secondary composed of fifth stringers, castoff free agents and a converted wideout. He'll probably throw for 300 yards again, but Brady will make him look foolish in comparison.
    Not saying all his passes were perfect. He needs a good off-season to work on that. He still made the plays, and had quite a few passes that were great tonight. His first two completions for instance were perfect passes, landing right in the hands of his receivers. I am not big on the Tebow hype as well, but I'm gonna defend him when he has a good game, and I think he is a good QB, no where near elite level yet, but he has a lot of potential.
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    The attention Tebow gets can be very simply attributed not to his faith, but the fact that people around him react so negatively to it. This leads religious people such as myself to defend him on his faith. The stuff often said about him can come off as...downright hostile. At best, it's a form of intolerance.

    As a football player, he has a lot of the same things going for him as John Elway did in his football years, college up to NFL. Most of his problems will likely sort out as he plays a couple of years with his team. If he doesn't bring them to a Superbowl win this year, mark my words, he will be winning Superbowls in the future.

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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by Hide in Plain Sight View Post
    That 316 yard figure is extremely misleading. Take the last play for instance. Tebow throws a fifteen yard pass (which by the way was a high throw that nearly missed an open man) that Thomas takes seventy yards more for the touchdown. Below-average throw by Tebow, fantastic play by the wideout.

    Not to say Tebow didn't make key throws and runs to help Denver win, because he definitely had a good game. If he hadn't, Denver wouldn't be advancing to play New England next week. And as a Boston native, I'm expecting Tebow to have a huge game due to the fact that the Pats have a secondary composed of fifth stringers, castoff free agents and a converted wideout. He'll probably throw for 300 yards again, but Brady will make him look foolish in comparison.
    I think your criticism of Tebow's throws is especially excessive--especially regarding that last throw, which was a beauty, and had no chance at all of anything negative (other than loss of down) actually happening. (I'd suppose that you'd call throws commonly thrown to those like Plaxico Burress "high" as well--the point though is ultimately to minimize the chance of anything negative happening, with only the targeted receiver having a chance to actually catch the ball, and having a good chance to catch the ball besides. Tebow's throw also led the receiver away from defenders.) Tebow's throws were also much tighter spirals than they were previously in the game against the Steelers, and his accuracy was up. (Every so often I hear a statement about a player that utterly shocks me, because it goes so against an established notion I had early, which may have even been rightly held. Your views about Tebow might just need update or revision.)

    As well, Tom Brady benefits quite a bit from yards-after-catch receivers, as does Eli Manning (who in his last two games has had at least two quite long TD "throws"), as do many others. (As I closely observe Eli Manning, being a Giants fan, I do like to micro-analyze various throws, and assign fault and credit to who I think it is due. This may be because, in one year [last?], Eli had a high number of interceptions that weren't his fault--they were often batted into the air by his receivers.) The reading of defenses and selected targeting of receivers should speak to a quarterback's credit, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hide in Plain Sight View Post
    Good athlete, god awful quarterback.

    He's a terrific runner but I can throw a football better than him (yes, this is a bit of sarcasm, but the point is relevant). He misses throws that most NFL quarterbacks make in their sleep and he's leagues away from even approaching the passing skills of Brees, Brady and Rodgers.

    The Broncos win because they have the number one running game in the NFL and a very dangerous defense. Not because Tebow is a skilled passer.
    Tebow is an insanely good athlete (durable, mobile, elusive, tenacious), and anyone declaring him an "awful quarterback" is at the least being very premature--the quality of his throws is going up, and Tebow and the Bronco offense are coming around to being less conservative.

    The Broncos also have the number one rushing game in the NFL because of Tim Tebow (he had 50 of the team's 131 rushing yards and a touchdown against the Steelers on only 10 attempts anyway: should those be added to Tebow's passing yards [it'd even be reasonable to consider such as passing yards {not for statistical purposes, but as further metric against other quarterbacks}, as he can be a potent "aborted pass" runner, and isn't necessarily seeking to run first], he's responsible for all 3 touchdowns directly and 366 yards: and McGahee, by the way, also had 2 fumbles) and it should be noted that the Steelers at the least had and have a "very dangerous defense" (which is of course understatement: the Steelers had the #1 regular season pass defense and overall defense). (The Steelers also at various points in the 3rd and 4th quarter very effectively moved their way up field, the Broncos' D not always consistently showing up [as little against Buffalo and not late against New England].) As well, separating Tebow's running ability and the danger he poses from his passer ability, and thinking only the latter and its manifestations so far in the games constitute his "quarterback ability," is a sure way to underrate his ability and danger as a quarterback. A quarterback is not merely a "passer," but mostly a passer (and that only generally, and, really, that only while the play is underway, prior to the play, a QB having different, but not necessarily exclusive, tasks).

    Kyle Orton is also leagues away from the likes of the quarterbacks you mentioned (to say nothing of other quarterbacks in the league), and those guys are really leagues away from being able to run as Tebow does. Quite frankly, Tebow only needs a 60% completion percentage to be as deadly as those guys I say anyway, as none of them will ever have to be covered and contained as needs be Tebow.

    I could go on and on about Tebow, the greatest college football player of all time, but... nah. I ultimately think he has the ability and talent already, and, once supplemented by a draft centering on augmenting him (and a normal offseason that has him as the probable starter from the beginning), he'll be especially potent.

    (Tim Tebow may or may not be the greatest college football player of all time--it depends on who makes the list.)
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    Default Re: The Church of Tim Tebow

    Quote Originally Posted by League View Post
    I think your criticism of Tebow's throws is especially excessive--especially regarding that last throw, which was a beauty, and had no chance at all of anything negative (other than loss of down) actually happening. (I'd suppose that you'd call throws commonly thrown to those like Plaxico Burress "high" as well--the point though is ultimately to minimize the chance of anything negative happening, with only the targeted receiver having a chance to actually catch the ball, and having a good chance to catch the ball besides. Tebow's throw also led the receiver away from defenders.) Tebow's throws were also much tighter spirals than they were previously in the game against the Steelers, and his accuracy was up. (Every so often I hear a statement about a player that utterly shocks me, because it goes so against an established notion I had early, which may have even been rightly held. Your views about Tebow might just need update or revision.)

    As well, Tom Brady benefits quite a bit from yards-after-catch receivers, as does Eli Manning (who in his last two games has had at least two quite long TD "throws"), as do many others. (As I closely observe Eli Manning, being a Giants fan, I do like to micro-analyze various throws, and assign fault and credit to who I think it is due. This may be because, in one year [last?], Eli had a high number of interceptions that weren't his fault--they were often batted into the air by his receivers.) The reading of defenses and selected targeting of receivers should speak to a quarterback's credit, though.

    Tebow is an insanely good athlete (durable, mobile, elusive, tenacious), and anyone declaring him an "awful quarterback" is at the least being very premature--the quality of his throws is going up, and Tebow and the Bronco offense are coming around to being less conservative.

    The Broncos also have the number one rushing game in the NFL because of Tim Tebow (he had 50 of the team's 131 rushing yards and a touchdown against the Steelers on only 10 attempts anyway: should those be added to Tebow's passing yards [it'd even be reasonable to consider such as passing yards, as he can be a potent "aborted pass" runner, and isn't necessarily seeking to run first], he's responsible for all 3 touchdowns directly and 366 yards: and McGahee, by the way, also had 2 fumbles) and it should be noted that the Steelers at the least had and have a "very dangerous defense" (which is of course understatement: the Steelers had the #1 regular season pass defense and overall defense). (The Steelers also at various points in the 3rd and 4th quarter very effectively moved their way up field, the Broncos' D not always consistently showing up [as little against Buffalo and not late against New England].) As well, separating Tebow's running ability and the danger he poses from his passer ability, and thinking only the latter and its manifestations so far in the games constitute his "quarterback ability," is a sure way to underrate his ability and danger as a quarterback. A quarterback is not merely a "passer," but mostly a passer (and that only generally, and, really, that only while the play is underway, prior to the play, a QB having different, but not necessarily exclusive, tasks).

    Kyle Orton is also leagues away from the likes of the quarterbacks you mentioned (to say nothing of other quarterbacks in the league), and those guys are really leagues away from being able to run as Tebow does. Quite frankly, Tebow only needs a 60% completion percentage to be as deadly as those guys I say anyway, as none of them will ever have to be covered and contained as needs be Tebow.

    I could go on and on about Tebow, the greatest college football player of all time, but... nah. I ultimately think he has the ability and talent already, and, once supplemented by a draft centering on augmenting him (and a normal offseason that has him as the probable starter from the beginning), he'll be especially potent.

    (Tim Tebow may or may not be the greatest college football player of all time--it depends on who makes the list.)

    I may have been a touch overly critical about the last throw. Sure it was high (and even if it was away from defenders, which it was, it was still too high and Thomas had to adjust his body to make the grab), but he did get it there and he did give his wideout a chance to make a play. Also, the point about the yards after the catch was simply to say that the high passing figure was based off less making successful throws over and over again and more on good runs after the catch.

    Now this isn't to say that Tebow didn't make a number of good throws in this particular game, because he did. The throw on the first touchdown to Eddie Royal in the corner of the end zone was a PERFECT throw. Now one thing that Tebow does well is that he throws an excellent deep ball. One of the reasons that he can only hit ten passes and still throw for 300 yards. However, in watching Tebow over the course of this season (I've seen him play five full games this year), I can count at least thirty passes an average passer (which includes Mr. Orton) would have hit. Throws like ten yard ins, ten yard outs, short slants, back shoulder throws (Tebow made a great back shoulder throw in the fourth quarter to Thomas and one of the commentators remarked that this was the first time all season Tebow had been able to hit said pass).

    And about my calling him an awful quarterback being premature: It's not. Right now at least. Three years down the road, Tebow could be an All-Pro passer. He definitely has the potential. I don't doubt that. However, until he hits the shorter and medium throws with more consistency, he won't be an elite passer. The issue with him needing to become a great passer is something that's happened to so called 'once in a generation talents' in the past.

    The two quarterbacks I can think of off the top of my head that resemble Tebow the most are Vince Young and Mike Vick. Young had an unbelievable college career and played maybe the greatest single game (the Rose Bowl where he singlehandedly beat the Leinart / Bush USC dynasty) in the history of college football. What happened to Young? He had a great first season (similar to Tebow). His questionable passing was overshadowed by his great running. Like Tebow, he took a team with a poor record and brought them back to 8-8 (only difference was that Tennessee didn't get the same help from other teams and missed the postseason by a game). In his second season, defenses had gotten used to Young's running and shut his running down. Without his running, his passing weakness showed and he lost his job in Tennessee, ending up as Mike Vick's backup in Philly.

    Speaking of Mike Vick... Vick was seen as a once in a generation talent. He had a rocket arm, he could out run every defender on the field, he could make people miss with ease. What happened to his career? He never won the big game because of his inability to be an accurate passer (not getting into his legal issues). When he came back to the league, he had transformed into a far better passer and had success in his first Philly season (his passing regressed in season two, thus Philly's failures).

    In both these cases, quarterbacks who were known for being runners and passers had great success as rookies but once defenses adjusted and had more film, their weaknesses caused their downfall.

    If Tebow doesn't improve his pocket presence, his footwork (he has a bad habit of dancing in the pocket and throwing off of his back foot) and his accuracy on shorter and medium throws, he will have a similar fate to Young and Vick. However, if he improves his passing (again I don't doubt that he can because he is such an incredible athlete), he could easily evolve into a Big Ben type QB, only faster and more dangerous.

    The sky is the limit for Tim. In order to reach his true potential, his skills as a pure passer have to improve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel
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