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  1. #16
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    I honestly don't see the issue. If the land belongs to someone and they want it gone...well that's that. Yeah, a historical monument is gone, but we can't preserve every historical monument, it hampers progress...even if it's just a mall. We have to look towards the future and not hang onto the past, at least in my opinion.
    The reckless destruction of an irreplacable historical monument is absolutely unconscionable. Irregardless of progress our history must be preserved so that future generatiuons can learn about it and so the knowledge does not become lost to time like so much flotsam.
    Who was learning about the temple? People that WENT there? I'd say most people would never see the temple. So the majority of people are learning from what has been recorded ANYWAY. Even so, what was there to learn that was lost? It can't be recorded? I'm sorry, but I don't find a temple to be all that important to knowledge, especially today, after so much has been recorded. Ancient Rome being destroyed in the dark ages was a pretty big loss, there WERE a lot of secrets lost in that situation, but mainly because there was no one to record it. Today, it's much different. It sucks, but I'd much rather see a ancient mayan monument destroyed than see another forest cut down.
    A temple is a monument of an ancient civilization that can never be replaced. It is crucial to preserve these places of history. Also, who says a forest would've been cut down instead?

  2. #17

    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    I honestly don't see the issue. If the land belongs to someone and they want it gone...well that's that. Yeah, a historical monument is gone, but we can't preserve every historical monument, it hampers progress...even if it's just a mall. We have to look towards the future and not hang onto the past, at least in my opinion.
    The reckless destruction of an irreplacable historical monument is absolutely unconscionable. Irregardless of progress our history must be preserved so that future generatiuons can learn about it and so the knowledge does not become lost to time like so much flotsam.
    Who was learning about the temple? People that WENT there? I'd say most people would never see the temple. So the majority of people are learning from what has been recorded ANYWAY. Even so, what was there to learn that was lost? It can't be recorded? I'm sorry, but I don't find a temple to be all that important to knowledge, especially today, after so much has been recorded. Ancient Rome being destroyed in the dark ages was a pretty big loss, there WERE a lot of secrets lost in that situation, but mainly because there was no one to record it. Today, it's much different. It sucks, but I'd much rather see a ancient mayan monument destroyed than see another forest cut down.
    A temple is a monument of an ancient civilization that can never be replaced. It is crucial to preserve these places of history. Also, who says a forest would've been cut down instead?
    Forests and other pieces of nature are CONSTANTLY being destroyed. Anyway, WHY is it crucial to preserve these places of history?
    Happy late Cirno De Mayo everyone! (Just noticed I never made a sig...meh, maybe later)

  3. #18
    Turtles All The Way Down Continent Turtle's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    I honestly don't see the issue. If the land belongs to someone and they want it gone...well that's that. Yeah, a historical monument is gone, but we can't preserve every historical monument, it hampers progress...even if it's just a mall. We have to look towards the future and not hang onto the past, at least in my opinion.
    The reckless destruction of an irreplacable historical monument is absolutely unconscionable. Irregardless of progress our history must be preserved so that future generatiuons can learn about it and so the knowledge does not become lost to time like so much flotsam.
    Who was learning about the temple? People that WENT there? I'd say most people would never see the temple. So the majority of people are learning from what has been recorded ANYWAY. Even so, what was there to learn that was lost? It can't be recorded? I'm sorry, but I don't find a temple to be all that important to knowledge, especially today, after so much has been recorded. Ancient Rome being destroyed in the dark ages was a pretty big loss, there WERE a lot of secrets lost in that situation, but mainly because there was no one to record it. Today, it's much different. It sucks, but I'd much rather see a ancient mayan monument destroyed than see another forest cut down.
    A temple is a monument of an ancient civilization that can never be replaced. It is crucial to preserve these places of history. Also, who says a forest would've been cut down instead?
    Forests and other pieces of nature are CONSTANTLY being destroyed. Anyway, WHY is it crucial to preserve these places of history?
    Because it reminds us of our history. Who we are. Who we were. Just like we should preserve history in the history books, so should we remember the places that were part of that history. So we will never forget.
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post

    Forests and other pieces of nature are CONSTANTLY being destroyed. Anyway, WHY is it crucial to preserve these places of history?
    These temples are like Model Ts. they are old antique and are historically valuble because they help give us a look what yesteryear civilizations were like

  5. #20

    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    No one's explaining WHY they're valuable. They're easily chronicled for future studying. It's sad and everything, but as I said before, I'd much rather see some ancient temple come down than a large chunk of wildlife habitat or something similar. What could possibly be learned from the building that couldn't be learned from pictures and documents? That's to say that anyone would be going to the temple or even allowed in.
    Happy late Cirno De Mayo everyone! (Just noticed I never made a sig...meh, maybe later)

  6. #21
    Proud Pokeservative! 97SaturnSL1's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    No one's explaining WHY they're valuable. They're easily chronicled for future studying. It's sad and everything, but as I said before, I'd much rather see some ancient temple come down than a large chunk of wildlife habitat or something similar. What could possibly be learned from the building that couldn't be learned from pictures and documents? That's to say that anyone would be going to the temple or even allowed in.
    its valuable because it helps give a glimps into parts of how anicent civilzations carryed on in thier lifes. Going back to my car example, having Pictures of a Model T Ford and documents but not having the real thing can give out false information. if they just have the documents, they can be altered to say the 1912 Model T was as powerfull as a 2013 Nissan GTR in 3012. where as if in 3012 they have a working Model T, the people of that time can learn from how people's cars were when they first came out. having an actual piece of history helps give people a better appreication of something because it is Physically there

  7. #22

    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by 97SaturnSL1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    No one's explaining WHY they're valuable. They're easily chronicled for future studying. It's sad and everything, but as I said before, I'd much rather see some ancient temple come down than a large chunk of wildlife habitat or something similar. What could possibly be learned from the building that couldn't be learned from pictures and documents? That's to say that anyone would be going to the temple or even allowed in.
    its valuable because it helps give a glimps into parts of how anicent civilzations carryed on in thier lifes. Going back to my car example, having Pictures of a Model T Ford and documents but not having the real thing can give out false information. if they just have the documents, they can be altered to say the 1912 Model T was as powerfull as a 2013 Nissan GTR in 3012. where as if in 3012 they have a working Model T, the people of that time can learn from how people's cars were when they first came out. having an actual piece of history helps give people a better appreication of something because it is Physically there
    That's one hell of a straw man
    Happy late Cirno De Mayo everyone! (Just noticed I never made a sig...meh, maybe later)

  8. #23
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 97SaturnSL1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    No one's explaining WHY they're valuable. They're easily chronicled for future studying. It's sad and everything, but as I said before, I'd much rather see some ancient temple come down than a large chunk of wildlife habitat or something similar. What could possibly be learned from the building that couldn't be learned from pictures and documents? That's to say that anyone would be going to the temple or even allowed in.
    its valuable because it helps give a glimps into parts of how anicent civilzations carryed on in thier lifes. Going back to my car example, having Pictures of a Model T Ford and documents but not having the real thing can give out false information. if they just have the documents, they can be altered to say the 1912 Model T was as powerfull as a 2013 Nissan GTR in 3012. where as if in 3012 they have a working Model T, the people of that time can learn from how people's cars were when they first came out. having an actual piece of history helps give people a better appreication of something because it is Physically there
    That's one hell of a straw man
    That.... really isn't a strawman argument at all.

    In any case, I'm not sure what part of "historically important" doesn't qualify as valuable.

  9. #24

    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 97SaturnSL1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    No one's explaining WHY they're valuable. They're easily chronicled for future studying. It's sad and everything, but as I said before, I'd much rather see some ancient temple come down than a large chunk of wildlife habitat or something similar. What could possibly be learned from the building that couldn't be learned from pictures and documents? That's to say that anyone would be going to the temple or even allowed in.
    its valuable because it helps give a glimps into parts of how anicent civilzations carryed on in thier lifes. Going back to my car example, having Pictures of a Model T Ford and documents but not having the real thing can give out false information. if they just have the documents, they can be altered to say the 1912 Model T was as powerfull as a 2013 Nissan GTR in 3012. where as if in 3012 they have a working Model T, the people of that time can learn from how people's cars were when they first came out. having an actual piece of history helps give people a better appreication of something because it is Physically there
    That's one hell of a straw man
    That.... really isn't a strawman argument at all.

    In any case, I'm not sure what part of "historically important" doesn't qualify as valuable.
    I'm referring to the part about the model t. Anyway, how and why is this particular temple historically important? What unsolved mysteries lied within that couldn't be solved by recorded account...or by disassembling it, for that matter? I genuinely want to know WHY it was so important. I'm willing to wager that we didn't lose any bit of knowledge about the Mayans from destroying this temple.

    Hell, was it even open or safe for inspection? What was the significance of such a monument?

    Now, an argument claiming that it's one last piss on the graves of the Mayans after more or less destroying their civilization, I could see that, it's a bit subjective, but still. I still don't think it's a loss.
    Happy late Cirno De Mayo everyone! (Just noticed I never made a sig...meh, maybe later)

  10. #25
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post

    I'm referring to the part about the model t. Anyway, how and why is this particular temple historically important? What unsolved mysteries lied within that couldn't be solved by recorded account...or by disassembling it, for that matter? I genuinely want to know WHY it was so important. I'm willing to wager that we didn't lose any bit of knowledge about the Mayans from destroying this temple.

    was it even open or safe for inspection? What was the significance of such a monument?
    The temple could have housed other artifacts on how the ancient mayans lived such as tools or technology. also the temples construction could have been significantly different than another temple. Going back to the cars for examples, if there was a Model T made in Michigan and there is another Model T that was built in Yokohama by Ford Japan and the imported one was destroyed, we would lose a fine example of the very early ages of the Automotive industy in Japan and we wouldnt have physical proof to show that one car was built better or that one had better build quality/technology. just put anything that may seem historicaly important or famous in the temples shoes and you can see why it would be a loss

  11. #26

    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by 97SaturnSL1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post

    I'm referring to the part about the model t. Anyway, how and why is this particular temple historically important? What unsolved mysteries lied within that couldn't be solved by recorded account...or by disassembling it, for that matter? I genuinely want to know WHY it was so important. I'm willing to wager that we didn't lose any bit of knowledge about the Mayans from destroying this temple.

    was it even open or safe for inspection? What was the significance of such a monument?
    The temple could have housed other artifacts on how the ancient mayans lived such as tools or technology. also the temples construction could have been significantly different than another temple. Going back to the cars for examples, if there was a Model T made in Michigan and there is another Model T that was built in Yokohama by Ford Japan and the imported one was destroyed, we would lose a fine example of the very early ages of the Automotive industy in Japan and we wouldnt have physical proof to show that one car was built better or that one had better build quality/technology. just put anything that may seem historicaly important or famous in the temples shoes and you can see why it would be a loss
    That's a whole lot of "could". By that logic, anytime we blow the shit out of mountains for the building of roads and whatnot, we COULD be destroying the fossils of unknown species of dinosaurs. Anytime there is a large scale construction project, we could be losing TONS of possible unknown things.

    Also: "The one advantage of this massive destruction, to the core site, is that the remains of early domestic activity are now visible on the surface,'' Rosenswig wrote." The destruction revealed things!
    Happy late Cirno De Mayo everyone! (Just noticed I never made a sig...meh, maybe later)

  12. #27
    Rocket traditionalist Hunter Blade's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    I'm referring to the part about the model t. Anyway, how and why is this particular temple historically important? What unsolved mysteries lied within that couldn't be solved by recorded account...or by disassembling it, for that matter? I genuinely want to know WHY it was so important. I'm willing to wager that we didn't lose any bit of knowledge about the Mayans from destroying this temple.

    was it even open or safe for inspection? What was the significance of such a monument?
    We might as well level the pyramids, Stonehenge, the Great Wall of China, any castle older than a couple hundred years, and raze the Native American burial mounds in the Great Plains since, apparently, after we know a little bit about a civilization we don't need any of that stuff anymore, right? I mean, we know much more about any of those things than we know about the Mayans, so what use are they to us? Heck, might as well get rid of anything older than 50 years or so. Start fresh. Clear away existing historical buildings, monuments, statues, anything that we already know everything about. Just wasting space to plant a few more trees.


    But really.
    To answer your question of why this temple was significant, we have so little knowledge about the Mayans compared to other ancient societies that anything we find or can learn about is important. And opportunities are fading fast. Many times, if not most of the time when they discover new ruins, if even the tiniest word gets out about them, thieves scurry in and ransack the place to sell things on the black market. If they haven't already found the ruins before the researchers do, that is. Yes. The damage might have opened up rooms that they wouldn't have entered or been able to enter in the past, so yes, they can learn about some things in there. That was the "one advantage". That doesn't mean keeping it intact was a waste though. A large part of history like this is respect. Maybe the Mayans have nothing to do with how you live your life, sure. But there are many people who are Mayan descendants in Central and South America who care very much about this. They try to preserve their past. They want to learn more about it. They respect it.
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  13. #28
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    I have a special name for construction workers like that:
    A shower of bastards.

    Haters gonna hate

  14. #29

    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Blade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    I'm referring to the part about the model t. Anyway, how and why is this particular temple historically important? What unsolved mysteries lied within that couldn't be solved by recorded account...or by disassembling it, for that matter? I genuinely want to know WHY it was so important. I'm willing to wager that we didn't lose any bit of knowledge about the Mayans from destroying this temple.

    was it even open or safe for inspection? What was the significance of such a monument?
    We might as well level the pyramids, Stonehenge, the Great Wall of China, any castle older than a couple hundred years, and raze the Native American burial mounds in the Great Plains since, apparently, after we know a little bit about a civilization we don't need any of that stuff anymore, right? I mean, we know much more about any of those things than we know about the Mayans, so what use are they to us? Heck, might as well get rid of anything older than 50 years or so. Start fresh. Clear away existing historical buildings, monuments, statues, anything that we already know everything about. Just wasting space to plant a few more trees.
    Pretty sure the majority of those are government owned...

    Also, I want links to information regarding stone henge, last I heard, it was still pretty unexplained.

    But really.
    To answer your question of why this temple was significant, we have so little knowledge about the Mayans compared to other ancient societies that anything we find or can learn about is important. And opportunities are fading fast. Many times, if not most of the time when they discover new ruins, if even the tiniest word gets out about them, thieves scurry in and ransack the place to sell things on the black market. If they haven't already found the ruins before the researchers do, that is. Yes. The damage might have opened up rooms that they wouldn't have entered or been able to enter in the past, so yes, they can learn about some things in there. That was the "one advantage". That doesn't mean keeping it intact was a waste though. A large part of history like this is respect. Maybe the Mayans have nothing to do with how you live your life, sure. But there are many people who are Mayan descendants in Central and South America who care very much about this. They try to preserve their past. They want to learn more about it. They respect it.
    As I said, I can understand the respect aspect, though I don't particularly agree with it. "Respect" and other such subjective terms are the biggest things holding the human race back. We're always sooooooo careful not to offend people and it severely sets us back, be it social, scientific or whatever. But I've still seen no reason to believe that this one pyramid was some severe loss. Funnily enough, the best way to examine and learn from something is to disassemble it, so to truly learn from it, "destruction" is needed, though, obviously in a different way.

    I AM confused as to why such a temple WASN'T protected, there has to be more to it than just "GREEDY ASSHOLES BULLDOZE MAGIC TEMPLE OF MYSTERIES".
    Happy late Cirno De Mayo everyone! (Just noticed I never made a sig...meh, maybe later)

  15. #30
    Rocket traditionalist Hunter Blade's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2500 year-old Mayan temple bulldozed... for construction material

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacquer Head View Post
    Pretty sure the majority of those are government owned...

    Also, I want links to information regarding stone henge, last I heard, it was still pretty unexplained.

    I AM confused as to why such a temple WASN'T protected, there has to be more to it than just "GREEDY ASSHOLES BULLDOZE MAGIC TEMPLE OF MYSTERIES".
    Stonehenge was a bad example, yeah, but the rest still stand.

    Anyways:
    Nohmul sat in the middle of a privately owned sugar cane field, and lacked the even stone sides frequently seen in reconstructed or better-preserved pyramids. But Awe said the builders could not possibly have mistaken the pyramid mound, which is about 100 feet tall, for a natural hill because the ruins were well-known and the landscape there is naturally flat.

    "These guys knew that this was an ancient structure. It's just bloody laziness'', Awe said.
    Belizean police said they are conducting an investigation and criminal charges are possible. The Nohmul complex sits on private land, but Belizean law says that any pre-Hispanic ruins are under government protection.
    It was protected. They ignored that like construction companies in Latin America usually do, except normally it happens on the smaller, less significant sites where there aren't many people watching. And it's not like they're building the road through this field, they used the temple simply as a source for building material.
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