Thread: War Room Party (5th game) - Finally over, Town victory

Originally Posted by Neonsands

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING. SUPER META, RIGHT? Yeah, I agree.

Saying this here so people will see it: This is no certain proof of alliance, but a handy consideration into how gutsy Neonsands would be. It's one data point that will form a larger trend.

Originally Posted by Buoy

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Any meta about yourself that you can control is laughable to try and clear yourself with. And so I will proceed to laugh at you. Hahaha. ^_^

why don't u check his games if it's so laughable and see where u are then

Why don't you say something productive. :P

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Originally Posted by Buoy

why don't u check his games if it's so laughable and see where u are then

I never said he hadn't been doing it for months previously. It'd be ridiculous to lie about that because it's easy to check. However, if he's mafia in this game, what's to stop him from thinking "Oh, now I can use my "how I've confirmed" thing to try and clear myself! I'd better claim Miller first, though, so I've got my back covered!" Nothing is stopping him from doing that.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Vote: Mr Fahrenheit

Because he'd rather see a lynch which must mean he's fine with being lynched himself.

His reasoning for voting Joltik is pretty poor considering it's not even been 24 hours and he's blasting someone for "inactivity",

Originally Posted by Mr. F

I would rather see a lynch and Joltik not saying anuthing does not sit well with me.

>Does not sit well with me
>Blasting

Not sure if you're intentionally trying to misrepresent the situation or not.

and his whole "That's cute that you think I'm mafia" tirade was pretty patronising and off considering all it was was Buoy thinking aloud - no accusation or anything in there.

Okay what. This is not a tirade. The only sentences he gives to Buoy are:

Originally Posted by Mr. F

Buoy's theory is definitely interesting and maybe something one would think one should look into more closely. Sadly, the premise that I'm scum is wrong and that kinda causes the whole theory to collapse. Which is kind of unfortunate because it is a cute little theory, I liked it.

I took it as a playful joke between friends. No idea where you got scumtell out of that. Or are Buoy's joke posts in response to you scummy too? And if not, does that mean that Buoy and Fahrenheit have different personalities, and that you compare personalities when deciding scum? Or is that too meta? :P

Adding on to the fact that his only defence to the theory was "I'm not mafia" which isn't a defence,

There was no "defense" because there was no accusation. Buoy only mentioned imagining Fahrenheit to be mafia because it happened in the last game.

and you've got yourself a suspect.

Pretty much everything you said you made up or misrepresented.

Conclusion: Your arguments have been specious; you're trying to pass them off as substantive.

Originally Posted by Joltik

I'll vote to that.

Unote: Leopard
Vote: Mr Fahrenheit

I understand that you'd vote for anyone so long as you weren't lynched, but why did you vote to break the tie? You didn't elaborate here so I'd like to see what you'd say now.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Well at the moment, it's a tie between Mr. F and Joltik, so if @Mijzelffan or @Greece could kindly take your joke votes off Joltik, that'd be grand, ta.

I'm just wondering why you didn't appeal to players who hadn't voted to vote for Fahrenheit.

Originally Posted by Buoy

Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit

Originally Posted by Buoy

Unvote: Neon Borealis.
Vote: Mr. Fahrenheit.

something seems REALLY off about him omg

Does it now? :)

unless you've suddenly changed personalities especially for this game or something

Meta works.

Originally Posted by Akuraito

VOTE: Mr. Fahrenheit

Pichu's argument is definitely convincing enough for me.

You're watching the thread enough to vote but not enough to contribute to the thoughts?

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Well at least I was right that he didn't care about the lynches. Score 1 for logic.

Originally Posted by Paperhorse

Sorry I missed Day 1 you guys, I was working or sleeping through most of it.

Originally Posted by Buoy

i'm just really paranoid idk i don't trust anyone who was part of the mafia in the previous game anymore

lol, you know that's a silly thing to think. That's almost the same thing as me saying "oh, you were town last game, and Mintaka wants a different mafia this time, so you must be mafia!!"

Also, thank you Neonsands for giving us information day 1 that wasn't the usual argument about lynch or no lynch or whatever.

So Claire, what do you think about all these thoughts?

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

You're watching the thread enough to vote but not enough to contribute to the thoughts?

I can't really contribute what I didn't have or by repeating what others already said. ^^;

Originally Posted by Akuraito

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

You're watching the thread enough to vote but not enough to contribute to the thoughts?

I can't really contribute what I didn't have or by repeating what others already said. ^^;

Sure you can. What's your reaction of Day 1?

Well, um...

Like Pichu and Buoy, I'm more leaning towards Neonsands being scum than the actual miller, although that could change if there isn't any counterclaim in the next phases.

Either way, I'm pretty paranoid about miller claims because of the IT Mafia (scum fakeclaimed miller, was going to get lynched, one of his partners counterclaimed him; there was no actual miller), so I'm really distrusting of any of them, meaning that I would like a cop check on Neonsands sometime if the townie roleblocker (assuming there is one? and that passive-ability roleblocking is allowed) and cop start collaborating at some point. Although that's really just me overreacting (seriously, I'm probably the most paranoid mafia player here), so... I didn't really want to say anything about it, but I'm assuming that you wanted my relevant thoughts.

Pichu's argument...well, I don't really have much to comment on that other than that I agreed with it. ^^;

I'm bad at things like this, okay. T_T

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

Saying this here so people will see it: This is no certain proof of alliance, but a handy consideration into how gutsy Neonsands would be. It's one data point that will form a larger trend.

To be honest, I always thought Neonsands seemed more gutsy as town than as mafia. But that's just my view of him. I've seen him claim in early phases as both town and as mafia. So I just need to analyze his responses later on in the game in order to make a decision about his alignment.

Conclusion: Your arguments have been specious; you're trying to pass them off as substantive.

I agree with this. Which is a bit unlike PichuBoy. He's an aggressive player, but he usually thinks things through more before posting. I didn't really see any logic in his posts, even though he claims he uses logic.

So Claire, what do you think about all these thoughts?

I just told you. :)

Originally Posted by KidBeano

I never said he hadn't been doing it for months previously. It'd be ridiculous to lie about that because it's easy to check. However, if he's mafia in this game, what's to stop him from thinking "Oh, now I can use my "how I've confirmed" thing to try and clear myself! I'd better claim Miller first, though, so I've got my back covered!" Nothing is stopping him from doing that.

The only reason I showed this information was specifically because I am miller. Otherwise I would have saved it for another game where this would help decide the finale or change the flow of the game. I'm not going to simply admit something I've been saving up for 7 months on day 1 otherwise.

Is it fair to say that I've been mafia enough, and not faked this, for me to be telling the truth here? Why would I not have used this for a game at the 5 month mark to prove my innocence? I'll tell you why. It's because I wouldn't taint something I've had going on this long just for one game. I've put so much time and effort into this, that it would feel cheapened for me if I wasted it like that.

I'm not asking for claims. I'm not asking you to say I'm 100% proven innocent. I'm just using this as a way to help everyone believe my miller claim. Not to mention, if I got counterclaimed as miller, it would look really bad on me. Miller isn't all that rare in these games. So, am I absolutely clear? No. Am I an interesting role who should be kept around? I'd like to think so.

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

]I understand that you'd vote for anyone so long as you weren't lynched, but why did you vote to break the tie? You didn't elaborate here so I'd like to see what you'd say now.

Two reasons,
1. There could have been a double voter, I know that this is unlikely, but I would rather be safe then sorry.
@. He also felt a little scummy to me, the fact that he placed a tie breaking vote an hour before the phase ended really rubbed me the wrong way. I also agreed with what KidBeano said.

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Vote: Mr Fahrenheit

Because he'd rather see a lynch which must mean he's fine with being lynched himself.

He said he was pro-Day-1-lynch, not pro-Day-1-lynch-as-long-as-it's-not-myself. Are you saying that if he'd have turned around and said "Woah guys, I didn't mean myself!", you wouldn't have wondered why?

>Does not sit well with me
>Blasting

Not sure if you're intentionally trying to misrepresent the situation or not.

blast - definition of blast by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

"7. To criticize or attack vigorously."
"4. To criticize or attack with vigor."
"6. to criticize severely"

When you call someone suspicious for doing something, you're criticising them for it, even if it's inadvertently. And whatever my choice of words, the fact still stands that Mr. F used inactivity as logic for a Day 1 lynch. It was ridiculous logic and he was grasping at straws. A townie member wouldn't grasp at straws on Day 1, no matter how desperate they were for a lynch. Did he turn out to be town? No. Did the suspicion he was grasping at straws prove itself in his role? Well considering it was to lynch three people regardless of alignment, I'd say yes.

Okay what. This is not a tirade. The only sentences he gives to Buoy are:

Originally Posted by Mr. F

Buoy's theory is definitely interesting and maybe something one would think one should look into more closely. Sadly, the premise that I'm scum is wrong and that kinda causes the whole theory to collapse. Which is kind of unfortunate because it is a cute little theory, I liked it.

I took it as a playful joke between friends. No idea where you got scumtell out of that. Or are Buoy's joke posts in response to you scummy too? And if not, does that mean that Buoy and Fahrenheit have different personalities, and that you compare personalities when deciding scum? Or is that too meta? :P

How you took it doesn't make me scummy. Buoy's initial post showed him thinking aloud - yes it had the 'or i might just be paranoid but idk', but to say that the whole post was a joke because of that statement is a little out-there. Then calling Mr. F's response a joke back is just plain odd. Buoy made no direct accusation against him, but he still chose to respond. Whether it was "a playful joke" or not, he had something to say on the matter. Buoy made a theory, Mr. F replied with 'Well that can't be true because I'm not mafia'.

There was no "defense" because there was no accusation. Buoy only mentioned imagining Fahrenheit to be mafia because it happened in the last game.

I never said there was an accusation, in fact, I've explicitly said there was no accusation.

And no, that's not what Buoy "only" mentioned. He came up with a perfectly valid theory, then posted how he wasn't 100% sure of it because he's not sure whether he's just paranoid from last game or not. Like I said before, you taking it as a joke is not the be-all and end-all. I didn't take it as a joke, so I analysed it, and that's supposed to be a note for concern?

Pretty much everything you said you made up or misrepresented.

Conclusion: Your arguments have been specious; you're trying to pass them off as substantive.

This is the first you've mentioned "made up".

You're kind of missing a key thing here - Mr. F did not care who was lynched.

I'm just wondering why you didn't appeal to players who hadn't voted to vote for Fahrenheit.

Because Mijz's and Greece's votes were self-confessed joke votes. To have a tie because two people think it's funny to screw with Day 1 (which you yourself criticised in this post)just makes a farce of the game.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Well at least I was right that he didn't care about the lynches. Score 1 for logic.

Please show me where I was wrong and that he actually cared about the lynches.

Anyway, you can't call my entire argument specious when actually, you didn't even bother to so much as mention the last part of it where I pointed out Mr F.'s contradiction. I'd like to see what you've got to say about that.

Originally Posted by Neonsands

Originally Posted by KidBeano

I never said he hadn't been doing it for months previously. It'd be ridiculous to lie about that because it's easy to check. However, if he's mafia in this game, what's to stop him from thinking "Oh, now I can use my "how I've confirmed" thing to try and clear myself! I'd better claim Miller first, though, so I've got my back covered!" Nothing is stopping him from doing that.

The only reason I showed this information was specifically because I am miller. Otherwise I would have saved it for another game where this would help decide the finale or change the flow of the game. I'm not going to simply admit something I've been saving up for 7 months on day 1 otherwise.

Is it fair to say that I've been mafia enough, and not faked this, for me to be telling the truth here? Why would I not have used this for a game at the 5 month mark to prove my innocence? I'll tell you why. It's because I wouldn't taint something I've had going on this long just for one game. I've put so much time and effort into this, that it would feel cheapened for me if I wasted it like that.

I'm not asking for claims. I'm not asking you to say I'm 100% proven innocent. I'm just using this as a way to help everyone believe my miller claim. Not to mention, if I got counterclaimed as miller, it would look really bad on me. Miller isn't all that rare in these games. So, am I absolutely clear? No. Am I an interesting role who should be kept around? I'd like to think so.

Please just stop, this entire argument is self-meta. No matter which way you phrase it, no matter how many times you've been mafia previously, the only thing you're attempting to use to give this argument substance is 'I wouldn't do that'. Well, jolly good, I wouldn't lynch Mr. Fahrenheit Day 1 as mafia ever. Do you believe me? No, because it's a ridiculous statement.

"I would have saved it for another game where this would help decide the finale or change the flow of the game" and you'd be doing exactly the same thing you're doing here and would have gotten exactly the same response.

Just because you've not done it as mafia before, doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to do it now. Again, you're making your own definition of "a waste" of your strategy and trying to justify it through your own actions. Atm, this is just something never-seen-before and so people are going gaga over it, when really, it's flawed to hell and back.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

Please just stop, this entire argument is self-meta. No matter which way you phrase it, no matter how many times you've been mafia previously, the only thing you're attempting to use to give this argument substance is 'I wouldn't do that'. Well, jolly good, I wouldn't lynch Mr. Fahrenheit Day 1 as mafia ever. Do you believe me? No, because it's a ridiculous statement.

"I would have saved it for another game where this would help decide the finale or change the flow of the game" and you'd be doing exactly the same thing you're doing here and would have gotten exactly the same response.

Just because you've not done it as mafia before, doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to do it now. Again, you're making your own definition of "a waste" of your strategy and trying to justify it through your own actions. Atm, this is just something never-seen-before and so people are going gaga over it, when really, it's flawed to hell and back.

"Let's ignore every single other part of the argument and just focus on the part where he said he wouldn't do it as mafia. See how dumb he sounds? Argument invalid." - PichuBoy

So, uhhhh... I guess you can just look at the rest of what I said in response to this. Cool.

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

Why don't you say something productive. :P

productive?????????? me?????????

sry i don't know how to play mafia games..........

Um, you want a line-by-line analysis? Fine.

Originally Posted by Neonsands

The only reason I showed this information was specifically because I am miller.

A claim. Okay, nothing odd about that really.

Otherwise I would have saved it for another game where this would help decide the finale or change the flow of the game. I'm not going to simply admit something I've been saving up for 7 months on day 1 otherwise.

Self-meta.

Is it fair to say that I've been mafia enough, and not faked this, for me to be telling the truth here?

No, as previously explained.

Why would I not have used this for a game at the 5 month mark to prove my innocence?

Each game is different. The scenarios in each game are different. You CANNOT say "Well I haven't used it before as mafia so why now?" as a justification. We've got to consider each game as it comes. The fact is, you've said it in this game. Great, now prove it's true.

Basically, what I previously explained.

I'll tell you why. It's because I wouldn't taint something I've had going on this long just for one game. I've put so much time and effort into this, that it would feel cheapened for me if I wasted it like that.

Your definition of a waste (i.e. self meta), as previously explained.

I'm not asking for claims.

Never said you were.

I'm not asking you to say I'm 100% proven innocent.

Good, 'cause I'm not saying it.

I'm just using this as a way to help everyone believe my miller claim.

Doing a great job of it, aren't you? :)

Not to mention, if I got counterclaimed as miller, it would look really bad on me.

Cool. Not relevant to the point about how you could be lying about how you typed "Confirmed" this time around, though.

Miller isn't all that rare in these games.

Still irrelevant.

So, am I absolutely clear? No.

So we agree.

Am I an interesting role who should be kept around? I'd like to think so.

>Miller
>Interesting role

No

---

Conclusion: Everything you said related to your argument was self-meta. Everything you said about proving your claim linked back to your strategy, which I've already explained is flawed.

So, in your own words paraphrasing me: "See how dumb he sounds? Argument invalid."

---

Oh and

Originally Posted by Akuraito

Like Pichu and Buoy, I'm more leaning towards Neonsands being scum than the actual miller

I never said that, I just said I'm not taking his thing as any kind of evidence of his claim.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

I'm just using this as a way to help everyone believe my miller claim.

Doing a great job of it, aren't you? :)

Not to mention, if I got counterclaimed as miller, it would look really bad on me.

Cool. Not relevant to the point about how you could be lying about how you typed "Confirmed" this time around, though.

Miller isn't all that rare in these games.

Still irrelevant.

So, am I absolutely clear? No.

So we agree.

Am I an interesting role who should be kept around? I'd like to think so.

>Miller
>Interesting role

No

---

Conclusion: Everything you said related to your argument was self-meta. Everything you said about proving your claim linked back to your strategy, which I've already explained is flawed.

So, in your own words paraphrasing me: "See how dumb he sounds? Argument invalid."

Everything before this part is cool, and you can call self-meta. Everything here you just call irrelevant, but it goes against what you said.

So it may use some more meta, but it's not by my own accord. Rather, by others. Check through all the other War Room Mafias. Tell me if you find one without a miller. There is always some character who meets the requirements for a miller. It's a common theme, and if I was a mafia pulling a stunt like this, I wouldn't claim miller. This isn't self-meta, this is common sense. If there is a role like cop or doctor, you wouldn't claim it day 1. This is because you have something to lose. As miller, I have nothing to lose so I'm trying to get this out of the way early. For there to be no counterclaim, that speaks volumes. Any other miller out there should have no fear of counterclaiming. It will only put people on watch.

So yeah. Basically it would have made no sense for me to do anything I did, without me actually being miller. You can argue against it all you want, but I'd have to be an idiot or the actual miller to claim miller in one of these games. I'm certainly not an idiot, so I must be the miller.

Conclusion: Half of my argument was self-meta, the rest was common sense. Also, don't tell me how to play. I'm going to enjoy myself how ever I want (within the rules, of course).

Originally Posted by Neonsands

Everything before this part is cool, and you can call self-meta. Everything here you just call irrelevant, but it goes against what you said.

My point was we shouldn't believe your strategy just on face value. You then responded to that. Before that, I had never said anything about your claim, apart from one statement saying it would fit in well if you were actually mafia given that you've come out with this strategy. So, yes, what you said was irrelevant because I was never saying you were scum. I was just saying your strategy was flawed and I'm not going to believe it. However, I'm not going to not-believe it. I'm going to wait until we get some actual information to work with.

So it may use some more meta, but it's not by my own accord. Rather, by others. Check through all the other War Room Mafias. Tell me if you find one without a miller. There is always some character who meets the requirements for a miller. It's a common theme,

Like I said, this game is this game. Not all the other War Room Mafias. We can assume however we want what roles are included based on the other games, but if we're going to continue the theme of meta, surely not being predictable is exactly what Mintaka would want to do? Especially considering it's the 5th game and all.

and if I was a mafia pulling a stunt like this, I wouldn't claim miller.

Depends how much of a risk-taker you are. Again, this is "If I was mafia" and self-meta.

This isn't self-meta, this is common sense. If there is a role like cop or doctor, you wouldn't claim it day 1. This is because you have something to lose. As miller, I have nothing to lose so I'm trying to get this out of the way early. For there to be no counterclaim, that speaks volumes. Any other miller out there should have no fear of counterclaiming. It will only put people on watch.

Because this is a closed setup, not being counterclaimed doesn't mean much. You may have taken a risk and it's paid off because there's no miller in the game. Or you may be the actual miller. Again, I've not made an opinion on your actual claim, just your strategy.

So yeah. Basically it would have made no sense for me to do anything I did, without me actually being miller. You can argue against it all you want, but I'd have to be an idiot or the actual miller to claim miller in one of these games. I'm certainly not an idiot, so I must be the miller.

You can call anything idiotic or senseless, but it's backing it up that's the hard part. Your only backing up here is "common sense", which isn't proof.

I'd have to be an idiot or town to vote Mr. F Day 1. I'm not an idiot, so I must be town. Perfectly sound logic, right?

Conclusion: Half of my argument was self-meta, the rest was common sense. Also, don't tell me how to play. I'm going to enjoy myself how ever I want (within the rules, of course).

I didn't tell you how to play.

Anyway, this is just going back-and-forth and getting nowhere. I'm not going to believe your claim just yet, and at the end of the day, there are 15 other people in this game I need to care about. I'll come back to this if any reason to actually suspect you crops up.

1. @Akuraito;
2. @Atomic;
3. @Buoy;
4. @Feralize;
5. @Greece;
6. @Hitomi;
7. @Leopard;
8. @Joltik;
9. @KidBeano;
10. @Mijzelffan;
12. @Neon Borealis;
13. @Neonsands;
14. @Paperhorse;
15. @Phoenicks;
16. @FrostyGaga;
17. @Soulmaster;
18. @Zenax;

"Okay, everyone done choosing what to do for this Night phase? Reality space says it's time for results, but first of all..."

'Mintaka' showed a slightly worried face. It was a relief that, it was assured, that the reality space's effects did not actually affect the person's physical body in any way.

"...it's time that one of you is kicked out of the reality space."

Players watched as 'Mintaka' typed some commands on her laptop.

And then...

ZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Before everyone could perceive that the sound was over, 'Neonsands' disappeared, leaving behind slight hints of spark and smoke.

...I'm going to have this program examined before I use it for a mafia game again. The host winced.

And after a minute, another person appeared, next to the couch the host was sitting on.

"......seriously, what's with the early deaths for you guys?"

Dear Neonsands,

You are Kidbeano.



All right, all right, you’ve pestered me to give you a role for yourself instead of sharing with another person. So let’s see what I can come up with for you.

Due to your history of being a formidable and aggressive player (you’ve scared a few players when you played mafia games, trust me), when you are checked for alignment, you will be seen as Mafia.

Having decent knowledge about roles and how they work in mafia games, you know how to fix roles to work for you. Even if they were lost due to their owner dying in this game.
You have the power to copy a dead Town player’s role, twice during the game. However, you aren’t exactly taking the full data from the target, you are just copying the data. Thus, after you used your action, the effect will last for only two phases. Your action can be used at any time, and will take effect as soon as you copy the role.
The copying process does not alter the role in any way – if the role had a Night action, you can only use that action during a Night phase. You cannot copy the same role twice.

You were assigned as Town. You win when you get rid of all of the Mafia players.

Neonsands was killed. He was 'Kidbeano', a Town player.
IT IS NOW DAY 2. YOU MAY VOTE.

The mafia just ruined his 7-month strategy.

gg neonsands