Thread: Star Trek: The Next Generation Mafia (1/24/13) Endgame-Outcasts Win

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

Master Mew's actions are really looking scummy right at the moment

Such as?

You just voted someone without giving a reason.

Not scummy, actually. There's nothing scummy about holding your cards while you gauge reactions.

....... I still find it odd, buuuuut.....

Unvote: Master Mew
Vote: Mijzelffan

I think our main priority today should be finding out which Bulletproof claim is fake. I'm leaning more towards Mijzelffan since the last cop just happens to die the same night we need a check on him.

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

....... I still find it odd, buuuuut.....

This is one of the great myths of scumhunting. The reality is that there is a huge difference between "odd" and "scummy."

When someone says or does something and you don't understand the reason behind it, it is more often a towntell than a scumtell. Why? Because Scum are usually very rational.

The Scum win-condition is very simple: Eliminate the Townies. They know who the Townies are, and they know exactly how to remove them from the game.

The Townie's win condition is far more complex: Eliminate the Scum, without knowing who they are and without knowing who they can trust and coordinate with.

When someone does something you don't understand, it means they are approaching the game from a different perspective than you are - and yes, it's true that Scum are approaching the game from a different perspective than Townies, but remember that Scum are trying very hard to look like they are approaching the game from the same perspective as Townies. Other Townies, by comparison, don't worry themselves with looking like Townies, they're busy trying to find scum.

What an anti-climax.

vote: baron dante

If he's still not modkilled with this low amount of activity he's obviously saying stuff in private.

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

What an anti-climax.

vote: baron dante

If he's still not modkilled with this low amount of activity he's obviously saying stuff in private.

Okay, I don't like how you're trying to draw attention off of yourself. BD is most likely inactivate, and voting him is just wasting a vote when he most likely will be mod killed soon. I'm now almost positive that you're mafia trying to get the town to waste a day phase.

FinalArcadia suddenly seemed almost positive that Momoka was scum at the end of Night 4. Her original reasoning was this post, although she made many more before the update, always pushing more suspicion on Momoka:

Originally Posted by FinalArcadia

My suspicions are on Momoka.

Her behavior has been pretty odd this game, in my opinion. At least half of her posts are during the Sputnik debacle way back, and I think that is because it was the perfect place for a mafia member to be active. Based on the tide of the game, she could either help lynch Sputnik (who now seems to be believed as a townie) and not be blamed as many others were voting her as well, or she could try to support her to look really good whenever Sputnik may (probably) show up town if lynched or killed.

Since then, she hasn't spoke up much. And even when all that was going on, her behavior seemed odd. Too calm, too diplomatic for her.

I don't think that sounds horrible. It's understandable, for someone who has no way of knowing anyone's roles or alignments. However though, if you don't trust anyone, then I'm not sure about that redirect...

To calmly approach this, @Sputnik I have a few questions I want you to truthfully answer.

First, why did you act as if you were in contact with someone? What made you target Midori? Was there basis? Is your ability a 1x?

Trying to root out an informant with a possible power/informative role? And "to calmly approach this" sounds very strange from her. LOL, no offense.

You probably should have consulted some others before doing this... if I had been asked(which I know means nothing for I'm not confirmed), I would not have thought that made her scummy.

That's convenient to say after the fact, huh? And she really seemed to want in on being consulted, which could also be a concerned townie, but with other things, I don't think so.

Intriguing... so, do you not trust them at all? Don't out them, just tell me if they appear trust worthy to you.

This quote strikes me the most odd. Something about the way it is worded rubs me the wrong way. I can't put my finger on why, but it sounds scummy.

I have a feeling that FinalArcadia of all people would know pretty well how to read Momoka, so that adds a bit of weight to her case in my mind.

...Come to think of it, Jokool, the very next post after FinalArcadia's was yours in which you said you agreed with her:

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

I've had a couple of suspicions, but most of them aren't even worthy of a FoS anymore.

I do agree with FA about Momoka though. It might just be that she's trying a different way to play, but it's still odd.

Without diving into another banal commentary on how "odd" and "scummy" are not the same, suffice it to say you were suspicious of Momoka then - yet when I voted for her in this phase, your reaction was a chainsaw defense.

What changed your mind about Momoka? After all, I was the first to vote for Momoka - and all the attention had previously been on Mijzelffan and Paperhorse, so there was no need for Mafia bussing. Therefore, I have concluded that if you thought my vote for Momoka was scummy, you are assuming that Momoka is innocent.

You were suspicious of her before, what changed?

That is true...

@Momoka;

Still waiting~~~

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

Momoko, what did you think of the Mijzelffan and Paperhorse debacle? You were oddly quiet, and only came now to defend yourself.

Personally, I didn't have much to say then. Of course, looking back on it, I'm more wary of Mijzelffan rather than Paperhorse. To me, she hasn't exactly done anything anti-town, and really the only thing that messed up her plan she said she had was claiming to Sputnik, who said that claim in thread. Other than that, I haven't seen anything mention worthy. As for Mijzelffan, I find it odd how he didn't claim bulletproof right away but instead did so later, which in my eyes, was slightly suspicious. Two bulletproofs is overpowered, I highly doubt they both are. Unless I missed somewhere that one of them really isn't.

Yeah, and the strongman was oneshot. So, for the sake of getting more activity, who do you think should be lynched?

By the way, @Doctor jokool;, you changed your vote to PH in the previous phase, and then went to vote Mijzelffan again in this phase. Why?

@Mijzelffan;, you seemed to be extremely convinced that PH was lying, and then you went to vote BD. Did you change your mind on PH or are you still suspicious of her?

Originally Posted by Master Mew

...Come to think of it, Jokool, the very next post after FinalArcadia's was yours in which you said you agreed with her:

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

I've had a couple of suspicions, but most of them aren't even worthy of a FoS anymore.

I do agree with FA about Momoka though. It might just be that she's trying a different way to play, but it's still odd.

Without diving into another banal commentary on how "odd" and "scummy" are not the same, suffice it to say you were suspicious of Momoka then - yet when I voted for her in this phase, your reaction was a chainsaw defense.

What changed your mind about Momoka? After all, I was the first to vote for Momoka - and all the attention had previously been on Mijzelffan and Paperhorse, so there was no need for Mafia bussing. Therefore, I have concluded that if you thought my vote for Momoka was scummy, you are assuming that Momoka is innocent.

You were suspicious of her before, what changed?

I actually forgot about that.... That's what I get for playing multiple games...

And now that I remember, I still think her actions are odd, but I'd like to wait on voting her until we have something more to go on.

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

By the way, @Doctor jokool;, you changed your vote to PH in the previous phase, and then went to vote Mijzelffan again in this phase. Why?

Last phase, my head was spinning and I had no idea who to vote for. This phase, I do.

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

I think our main priority today should be finding out which Bulletproof claim is fake. I'm leaning more towards Mijzelffan since the last cop just happens to die the same night we need a check on him.

Originally Posted by Doctor jokool

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

What an anti-climax.

vote: baron dante

If he's still not modkilled with this low amount of activity he's obviously saying stuff in private.

Okay, I don't like how you're trying to draw attention off of yourself. BD is most likely inactivate, and voting him is just wasting a vote when he most likely will be mod killed soon. I'm now almost positive that you're mafia trying to get the town to waste a day phase.

Originally Posted by Momoka

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

Momoko, what did you think of the Mijzelffan and Paperhorse debacle? You were oddly quiet, and only came now to defend yourself.

Personally, I didn't have much to say then. Of course, looking back on it, I'm more wary of Mijzelffan rather than Paperhorse. To me, she hasn't exactly done anything anti-town, and really the only thing that messed up her plan she said she had was claiming to Sputnik, who said that claim in thread. Other than that, I haven't seen anything mention worthy. As for Mijzelffan, I find it odd how he didn't claim bulletproof right away but instead did so later, which in my eyes, was slightly suspicious. Two bulletproofs is overpowered, I highly doubt they both are. Unless I missed somewhere that one of them really isn't.

Judging from this vague answer I have to conclude Momoko did not read through the thread at all. Maybe skimmed it at most. Also note how she's trying her best to stay neutral on the issue (not really choosing a side, sorta keeping suspicious of both), that's generally a mafia trait.

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

@Mijzelffan;, you seemed to be extremely convinced that PH was lying, and then you went to vote BD. Did you change your mind on PH or are you still suspicious of her?

Yes.

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

Yeah, and the strongman was oneshot. So, for the sake of getting more activity, who do you think should be lynched?

Honestly, Mijzelffan.

VOTE: Mijzelffan.

Yeah, and Baron Dante was recently modkilled in the DPPT Mafia too. Maybe he's an Independent who needs to live until the end of the game to win? There hasn't been a single independent dead yet, I think. Laying low could be it. And Mijzelffan's case on him was just because he was inactive, which is pretty shitty when you think about it. Especially when he had a stronger case on Paperhorse and insisted that she was the Mafia godfather. Trying to avoid attention perhaps?

I'll VOTE: Mijzelffan again then. Subject to change.

EDIT: of course i get 2 more responses

@mijz

That's true. But then I think she would have enforced the lynched more. She's the type of player that can't make up her mind, so that COULD be it. If you're Town and PH is somehow really Mafia, I'd theorize that she didn't vote for Paperhorse to not risk lynching her.

@momoko

why u no vote mijzelffan before???

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

@momoko

why u no vote mijzelffan before???

Probably because her neutrality no longer works since she's close to being lynched, so she opts the one lynch more likely to happen than the one on herself.

I like the Momoka wagon, this needs to happen.