Thread: Star Trek: The Next Generation Mafia (1/24/13) Endgame-Outcasts Win

Vote: Mijzelffan, This whole thing is just too weird. If he was actually bulletproof, why didn't he claim earlier?

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

“Eventually”...

Yeah, not buying it. You went on to claim to Sputnik, now, how hard and time consuming is it to message Akuraito “Hey, can I help? Got any leads? Something to discuss privately?”. It has been like, 3 phases already.

Your reasoning is flawed. Just because I didn't talk to Akuraito does not automatically mean I'm scum. And I worked 7:00 am to 6:30 pm yesterday. With my job, I can't use the internet. So yes, it was difficult for me to contact her yesterday. The day before I was busy as well.

And why did I need to contact her in the first place? I've talked to other people. I know she is town because she has been cleared. And if she had a question for me, she could have easily PM'd me.

Vote: Mijzelffan

Sorry, guys, but of the two Bulletproof claims this one is more pragmatic. Paperhorse isn't cleared, but she has more to her town-cred at the moment than Mijz - and I really don't understand the reasoning behind waiting until now to counterclaim.

Originally Posted by Paperhorse

I was the second vote on GliscorMan.

Again with this? You've brought this up so many times, it seems you seem to think you're some untouchable demigod because of that fact. Human brings up some good arguments.

Originally Posted by Buoy

Vote: Mijzelffan.

It's safer this way. We get to see who is lying still, but we don't risk a cop-checked player who has done a whole lot more than a late counter-claim (and don't go saying, "omfg but buoy u havent done a lot" because just stfu i dont have to be doing a lot myself to tell when other people aren't doing anything much), as far as I can see. It's a bit of a late reaction from Mijzelffan, and this theory of a hidden ability speaks volumes of bullshit to me. It's barely plausible, but is it likely in context with the roles revealed so far? No. As well as that, the utter lateness of this counter-claim when you're BULLETPROOF is a bit off, and, yes, meta, but not at all like Mijz. Also, he seems confident in his theory that a godfather is claiming bulletproof without much reasoning except a cop-check and a bulletproof claim. This whole thing seems like a set-up in the first place: conveniently there's no "intentional" kill, which conveniently backs up Mijz's bulletproof claim after he says that he "has information". I'm sorry, but I'm really not buying this, and I'm not going to risk a cop-checked player over somebody else. The chance that she's godfather compared to the chance that she's town is something to consider, I believe, as well as the circumstances behind Mijz's sudden and late -- again, I will stress LATE -- reveal.

Read the flavour text. It says the doctor's hypospray wasn't filled with medicine, and shows a death. It also says the mafia tried to kill, but didn't manage to kill anyone. Come up with a better explanation than what I came up with. It isn't convenient at all, it's logical the mafia tried to kill me because I said I was going to reveal information in one phase. It would be weird if the mafia wouldn't try to kill me after that.

But I indeed haven't done much this game, and was pretty much below people's radars in that aspect. If I were mafia, why would I take a gambit in counterclaiming paperhorse like that? There would still be a pretty decent chance I'd fail, and then I'd have died for nothing, while if I hadn't done that counterclaim I'd probably have comfortably lived for another couple of phases. Not to mention even if I were to succeed I'd be lynched myself one phase after. If you're going meta anyway then you should know I would never go for such a high risk low reward scenario, as as the name implies, there just isn't much to gain from it.

Your main argument seems to be I'm suspicious because I counterclaimed "too late". Why, is there an mafia rule you're supposed to counterclaim people immediatly? You can't try to get some more info first? You're supposed to be rash, rather than calm and collected? Well consider that a rule I'm not going to follow. The fact I'm late with my counterclaim changes nothing, and the fact that seems to be your main argument just proves how little you have to go on.

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Vote: Mijzelffan

Sorry, guys, but of the two Bulletproof claims this one is more pragmatic. Paperhorse isn't cleared, but she has more to her town-cred at the moment than Mijz - and I really don't understand the reasoning behind waiting until now to counterclaim.

Again with the counterclaims should be presented at sight notion? Expecting this from people is pretty dumb, and a good way for the mafia to get rid of power roles quickly. Seriously, I shouldn't have to tell you guys I have had exams all week and haven't paid much attention to the thread as a defense to this accusation, since the accusation is flawed by itself. But if that's what it takes, the thread itself is a prime example for my low activity. Go on, check it out.

Mijz' exasperated tone has won me over.

If Mijz is lying he knows he's only buying himself one phase, that seems like a lousy scum plan. If Paperhorse is lying she claimed privately to one player, which is more believable as a scum plan to me. We should note that this theory necessitates that Paperhorse be the Godfather.

Unvote: Mijzelffan
Vote: Paperhorse
@Paperhorse;

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

Your main argument seems to be I'm suspicious because I counterclaimed "too late". Why, is there an mafia rule you're supposed to counterclaim people immediatly? You can't try to get some more info first? You're supposed to be rash, rather than calm and collected? Well consider that a rule I'm not going to follow. The fact I'm late with my counterclaim changes nothing, and the fact that seems to be your main argument just proves how little you have to go on.

yea thats exactly my main argument gj u have won it all i have nothing ur right im wrong lol!

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MOD NOTE
Everything after "gj" is inflammatory and NOT acceptable. If posts like these continue, we will not be happy.

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

Again with this? You've brought this up so many times, it seems you seem to think you're some untouchable demigod because of that fact.

Mijz, pls, we both know I don't think that way.

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Mijz' exasperated tone has won me over.

If Mijz is lying he knows he's only buying himself one phase, that seems like a lousy scum plan. If Paperhorse is lying she claimed privately to one player, which is more believable as a scum plan to me. We should note that this theory necessitates that Paperhorse be the Godfather.

Unvote: Mijzelffan
Vote: Paperhorse
@Paperhorse;

The only reason I claimed to Sputnik was because I wanted her help. I wanted her to cooperate with me because I really thought I had a good lead at the time. I wasn't planning on claiming to her when I first contacted her.

Master Mew, I have been your ally since night 1 in this game. If our conversations do not prove I am town, than I guess nothing else will.

Originally Posted by Paperhorse

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

Again with this? You've brought this up so many times, it seems you seem to think you're some untouchable demigod because of that fact.

Mijz, pls, we both know I don't think that way.

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Mijz' exasperated tone has won me over.

If Mijz is lying he knows he's only buying himself one phase, that seems like a lousy scum plan. If Paperhorse is lying she claimed privately to one player, which is more believable as a scum plan to me. We should note that this theory necessitates that Paperhorse be the Godfather.

Unvote: Mijzelffan
Vote: Paperhorse
@Paperhorse;

The only reason I claimed to Sputnik was because I wanted her help. I wanted her to cooperate with me because I really thought I had a good lead at the time. I wasn't planning on claiming to her when I first contacted her.

Master Mew, I have been your ally since night 1 in this game. If our conversations do not prove I am town, than I guess nothing else will.

Oy... ok. You know what? I have more flip-flops than Old Navy.

Unvote: Paperhorse
Vote: Mijzelffan

Regardless of how Mijz flips, finding a Vig and testing Paperhorse's claim tonight.

Wow, didn't think master mew would be suspectable to a cheap appeal to emotion move like that. I guess that's why one should never rely on meta.

Originally Posted by Paperhorse

Vote: Mijzelffan, This whole thing is just too weird. If he was actually bulletproof, why didn't he claim earlier?

Originally Posted by HumanDawn

“Eventually”...

Yeah, not buying it. You went on to claim to Sputnik, now, how hard and time consuming is it to message Akuraito “Hey, can I help? Got any leads? Something to discuss privately?”. It has been like, 3 phases already.

Your reasoning is flawed. Just because I didn't talk to Akuraito does not automatically mean I'm scum. And I worked 7:00 am to 6:30 pm yesterday. With my job, I can't use the internet. So yes, it was difficult for me to contact her yesterday. The day before I was busy as well.

And why did I need to contact her in the first place? I've talked to other people. I know she is town because she has been cleared. And if she had a question for me, she could have easily PM'd me.

I didn't say you were scum for it. I just found it suspicious because I didn't see the active scumhunting you have claimed of doing. I'd cut you some slack if you forgot/didn't notice, but as you told me that you knew, I couldn't help but point it out. Now, I'm not saying that you should have INSTANTLY claimed to her. You were busy with life, had staff duties like telling me about my double posts, and a Mafia game to host, which then contradicts your claim of having scumhunted.

Seeing the conversations MIGHT change my mind.

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

Wow, didn't think master mew would be suspectable to a cheap appeal to emotion move like that. I guess that's why one should never rely on meta.

That's not the reason. I've been rather doubleminded about this whole affair, as I often am. On the one hand, Paperhorse better fits the behavior I would expect from a Townie in this situation, on the other hand the scum-narrative is more plausible from her perspective.

HOWEVER, she brings up a good point that I have a lot to go off of with her if she is cleared by this lynch, whereas you haven't been very active.

In other words, I learn more by clearing Paperhorse than by clearing you.

Originally Posted by Master Mew

That's not the reason. I've been rather doubleminded about this whole affair, as I often am. On the one hand, Paperhorse better fits the behavior I would expect from a Townie in this situation, on the other hand the scum-narrative is more plausible from her perspective.

HOWEVER, she brings up a good point that I have a lot to go off of with her if she is cleared by this lynch, whereas you haven't been very active.

In other words, I learn more by clearing Paperhorse than by clearing you.

Even if you learn more by clearing Paperhorse you've got to consider, how big is that chance? Bulletproof is a powerful role, is it really worth lynching me because if Paperhorse turns innocent you're better off, even though from an objective point I think has smaller chance of happening? (though of course I can't really be objective in that)

Recap from all my points as to why I am innocent: judging from the flavour text there are only a few options as to why the mafia kill didn't work, the most obvious one them trying to kill me and my "info trap". Then to the claim I was a mafia who staged the whole thing, the only other possible explanation, I pointed out the high risk low reward nature of counterclaiming paperhorse if mafia (and the fact I'd die soon after regardless of wether I succeeded or failed), which is why I would never do that (I don't see why anyone would), since number-wise a mafioso's life is much more valuable to the mafia than a townie's life is to the town. If you accept even one of these two points of defense then there aren't much if any other ways to explain the events that happened tonight and today.

Then we have Paperhorse's reasons for being innocent, which seem to be being first in claiming bulletproof, being the second one to vote gliscorman (which she loves bringing up), and "actively scumhunting" and being more active than me, yet she also uses not being active as an argument to why she didn't claim. Kind of a contradiction. Oh, and the only visible result of this "active scumhunting" is of course the second vote on gliscorman. Note none of these arguments counter any of my arguments as to why judging tonight's and today's circumstances I'm innocent.

Of course maybe you still think Paperhorse's arguments here are better than mine, which is possible, but if not then what you're doing here is basically lynching me over paperhorse just because me being mafia works out better for you, rather than looking at who is actually more likely to be mafia.

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

judging from the flavour text there are only a few options as to why the mafia kill didn't work, the most obvious one them trying to kill me and my "info trap".

There is one other person who could not be killed last night, even if you are Bulletproof and Paperhorse isn't.

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

judging from the flavour text there are only a few options as to why the mafia kill didn't work, the most obvious one them trying to kill me and my "info trap".

There is one other person who could not be killed last night, even if you are Bulletproof and Paperhorse isn't.

Enlighten us.

@HumanDawn; Just because you haven't witnessed me scumhunting, it doesn't mean I haven't been trying. And I'm not comfortable showing you conversations in public. The private convos I've had are private for a reason.

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

Originally Posted by Master Mew

Originally Posted by Mijzelffan

judging from the flavour text there are only a few options as to why the mafia kill didn't work, the most obvious one them trying to kill me and my "info trap".

There is one other person who could not be killed last night, even if you are Bulletproof and Paperhorse isn't.

Enlighten us.

My Commuter-status is compulsive. I'm gone every night, but still get to post (which sounds a lot like another role...) so I'm actually suspicious of all the Bulletproof claims at this point.

I baited the kill last night by mentioning everyone and claiming that I wouldn't be commuting that night.