Mafia: Space Race Mafia - Day 4 - Project Apollo (2/6/2013) - Page 3

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Thread: Space Race Mafia - Day 4 - Project Apollo (2/6/2013)

  1. #31
    The Real McCoy Master Simm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    @Master Mew; Honestly, I'm trying to come up for a reason for your and Phoenicks' original votes, as well as a reason to "jump on the bandwagon" with you.

    I've only ever played mafia with cards before...

    P.S. What's pressure voting?

  2. #32
    I'm back! Finally Soulmaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    @Soulmaster Do you expect to be more or less active than usual in this game? Also, what do you think of Aerial Ace's vote for twinArmageddons?
    About the same unless something comes through. Completely uncalled for. If he wasn't so new I would think it was a major scum trip up.

    And Vote: twinarmageddons to tie it up.
    @TM40 Aerial Ace; Normally on Day 1 there are joke votes which hold nothing over the game really. But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?

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  3. #33
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    @Dark Blueberry On a scale of 1-10, 1 being Obv-Town and 10 being Obv-Scum, how scummy do you plan on being in this game?
    I don't think I'd be able to act scummy. XDD

    But jokes aside, I assume there are only a few power roles in this game?

  4. #34
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post
    Normally on Day 1 there are joke votes which hold nothing over the game really. But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?
    Because your analysis of Day 1 voting is completely wrong.

    Early bandwagons are important, if we all vote for different people then we won't learn anything from RVS. The point is to build a bandwagon on someone, almost lynch them (that "almost" is important) then demand that they assert their Towniness by scumhunting. That's how substantive discussion begins.

    Otherwise, we have a meaningless Day 1, a basically random nightkill, and then start Day 2 with no reads (a.k.a. 90% of Bulba games). In a game this size, we only have two mislynches before LYLO, so I don't think we can risk a meaningless Day 1.

    Oh, also, you didn't just, "tie it up," you just took twinArmageddons to three votes.

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  5. #35
    I'm back! Finally Soulmaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post
    Normally on Day 1 there are joke votes which hold nothing over the game really. But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?
    Because your analysis of Day 1 voting is completely wrong.

    Early bandwagons are important, if we all vote for different people then we won't learn anything from RVS. The point is to build a bandwagon on someone, almost lynch them (that "almost" is important) then demand that they assert their Towniness by scumhunting. That's how substantive discussion begins.

    Otherwise, we have a meaningless Day 1, a basically random nightkill, and then start Day 2 with no reads (a.k.a. 90% of Bulba games). In a game this size, we only have two mislynches before LYLO, so I don't think we can risk a meaningless Day 1.

    Oh, also, you didn't just, "tie it up," you just took twinArmageddons to three votes.
    *facepalm* thanks for catching that.
    Unvote: twinArmageddons
    Vote: TM40 Aerial Ace

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  6. #36
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    @Soulmaster Why do you want the votes tied? We have to lynch correctly 50% of the time to win this game, but if we don't get a lynch today that jumps to 66%. Granted, if we screw up and lynch a Townie today, we'll still have to lynch correctly 66% of the time from that point on to win, but we'll have one fewer suspect. So there really is no scenario in which a No Lynch today would be better than lynching.

    This is exactly why I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Bulba's RVS is designed to fail
    We have decided that we need to do everything within our power to prevent a lynch on Day One, so at the end of the day we end up with 9 votes on 7 people, no lynch, then a nightkill, and then we start Day Two almost exactly like Day One: With no information.

    Basically, that sets us on a path to expending both of our available mislynches on near-random targets. Why set ourselves back like that?

    Why not turn up the heat on one player Day One, press them for something substantive, and start a meaningful discussion now? By that route, we'll have far more reads on Day Two.

    Your vote is very safe - you justified it purely by the fact that it tied the votes, with no thought for whether or not your target was Scum, and expect it to be interpreted as a towntell because the site meta preaches that trying to prevent lynches is Pro-Town. But it isn't.

    FoS: Soulmaster

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  7. #37
    I'm back! Finally Soulmaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    @Soulmaster Why do you want the votes tied? We have to lynch correctly 50% of the time to win this game, but if we don't get a lynch today that jumps to 66%. Granted, if we screw up and lynch a Townie today, we'll still have to lynch correctly 66% of the time from that point on to win, but we'll have one fewer suspect. So there really is no scenario in which a No Lynch today would be better than lynching.

    This is exactly why I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Bulba's RVS is designed to fail
    We have decided that we need to do everything within our power to prevent a lynch on Day One, so at the end of the day we end up with 9 votes on 7 people, no lynch, then a nightkill, and then we start Day Two almost exactly like Day One: With no information.

    Basically, that sets us on a path to expending both of our available mislynches on near-random targets. Why set ourselves back like that?

    Why not turn up the heat on one player Day One, press them for something substantive, and start a meaningful discussion now? By that route, we'll have far more reads on Day Two.

    Your vote is very safe - you justified it purely by the fact that it tied the votes, with no thought for whether or not your target was Scum, and expect it to be interpreted as a towntell because the site meta preaches that trying to prevent lynches is Pro-Town. But it isn't.

    FoS: Soulmaster
    ...I want to be able to go against this somehow but math doesn't lie. And your math looks sound from my point of view.

    but doubly, if you want a lynch so bad why don't you unvote twins that way Aerial Ace is lynched? While you make some sense it isn't enough to warrant an unvote from me quite yet. The two of you could be scum buddies so you wouldn't want him to be lynched.

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  8. #38
    megane shota hurristat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    @Master Mew; Your question is based off the assumption that Phoenicks is mafia. In order for him to become obv-scum, he needs to be scum first.

    That said, if Phoenicks is scum, I expect him to become obv-scum in probably seven or so phases. He can hide for a while, but if he's that obvious, then we'll find him.
    And yes, I'll vote for him if he's mafia. What sort of question is that? You're just gonna walk yourself in WIFOM circles ascertaining any good info out of it.
    Your last question is similarly walking in WIFOM circles and doesn't really mean anything without context.

    I don't really see how your specific questions to me help the town move forward at all.

  9. #39
    Hipsteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Let's try something new: If you're NOT engaging with the game, trying to understand, and posting your responses, then you are anti-town. The most surefire way to be lynched is to show that you have not attempted to understand. This is a basic requirement of signing up for mafia. If you act this way, your behavior hurts the town and the enjoyment of the game. If you're lying low because you don't like such behavior (I'm guilty of that), please help me kill it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    We start with 9 players, two of which are scum. Thus, we can mislynch twice before we enter LYLO (lynch-or-lose). Thus, we must lynch correctly 50% of the time to win.

    Alternatively, if we were to no lynch today, we would only have one mislynch before entering MYLO (mislynch-or-lose). Thus, we would have to lynch correctly 66% of the time to win. This is nearly insurmountable for Bulba Towns in my experience.

    Conclusion: No Lynching is not really an option today, and won't be at any point in the game barring a successful Doctor protection.
    "Conclusion: No Lynching is not really an option today, and won't be at any point in the game barring a successful Doctor protection."


    "No Lynching is not really an option"


    I agree with this assessment because Master Mew's analysis is factually correct. You do not have the luxury of disagreeing unless you can demonstrate that his analysis is incorrect.



    @Phoenicks Why did you move your vote from twinArmageddons to pressure-vote Aerial Ace, when the twinArmageddons wagon had not yet accomplished the purpose of the early RVS wagon? i.e. Why start pressuring Aerial Ace with your vote, when we weren't finished pressuring twinArmageddons?
    Because, without any conversation about how a Day 1 RVS [Random Voting Stage] wagon is supposed to work, I didn't trust Bulbagarden to not turn this into quick lynch [a lynch without any discussion]. Come on, Master Mew, you know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TM40 Aerial Ace View Post
    @Master Mew; Honestly, I'm trying to come up for a reason for your and Phoenicks' original votes, as well as a reason to "jump on the bandwagon" with you.

    I've only ever played mafia with cards before...
    This is mostly the reaction voting stage -- you don't really need a reason. Everything's about gathering information. (By the way, nice to see you again and welcome to The War Room.)

    P.S. What's pressure voting?
    Voting for the purpose of getting a reaction. It helps us gather information because some people act differently when pressed with a vote, or when forced to appear. And, in many cases, some people only start to post when you pressure them to begin with. It's unfortunate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post
    . Completely uncalled for. If he wasn't so new I would think it was a major scum trip up.
    why do you think this

    And Vote: twinarmageddons to tie it up.
    why did you do this

    Normally on Day 1 there are joke votes which hold nothing over the game really.
    then why did you post one

    But @Master Mew; Why did you follow the vote?[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Blueberry View Post
    But jokes aside, I assume there are only a few power roles in this game?
    Quote Originally Posted by The rules we are all expected to read
    There are 9 players in this game, 7 of which are town (Soviet Space Program) and 2 of which are mafia (NASA). The town will have one doctor and 6 vanilla townies. The mafia will have one role cop and one mafia goon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post

    *facepalm* thanks for catching that.
    Unvote: twinArmageddons
    Vote: TM40 Aerial Ace
    Unvote: TM40 Aerial Ace


    No more "tie" -- especially since ties are meaningless in this game.

    Do you have anything to say in response to what Master Mew has said (and meant)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post
    but doubly, if you want a lynch so bad why don't you unvote twins that way Aerial Ace is lynched?
    It's not about "wanting a lynch so bad" -- it's about needing to lynch to have a shot of winning this game. Lynching -- and scumhunting -- is the only way to win. I could ask you: If you want to win the game so bad, why do you attack Master Mew's premises?

    While you make some sense it isn't enough to warrant an unvote from me quite yet. The two of you could be scum buddies so you wouldn't want him to be lynched.
    Any two players could be scum buddies.
    Last edited by Phoenicks; 23rd January 2013 at 10:00 PM. Reason: See the capital "NOT"? That sentence needed it.

  10. #40
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Quote Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post
    @Master Mew; Your question is based off the assumption that Phoenicks is mafia. In order for him to become obv-scum, he needs to be scum first.
    I disagree - one can be obv-scum without actually being scum. In fact, I've found obv-scum to be innocent as often as they are guilty - scum are rarely truly obvious.

    That said, if Phoenicks is scum, I expect him to become obv-scum in probably seven or so phases. He can hide for a while, but if he's that obvious, then we'll find him.
    So if Phoenicks is scum you figure we'll have him sniffed out by Day 4?
    And yes, I'll vote for him if he's mafia. What sort of question is that?
    Not the question that I asked.

    I don't really see how your specific questions to me help the town move forward at all.
    Just wanted to know if you had any gutreads on Phoenicks by the time you would get around to responding - I did not expect a prompt response, so I figured Nick would have gotten a post in before you answered. If you'd waited another half-hour, I would have been right.




    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post
    ...I want to be able to go against this somehow but math doesn't lie. And your math looks sound from my point of view.
    Why do you, "want to be able to go against this somehow?" If the math is sound (and it is), what prompts this resistence?




    @Zima Hi.

    @Orion Hi.

    @Dark Blueberry What are your thoughts?




    The clock is running down and I don't feel like wasting any more time vainly trying to squeeze content out of RVS, so let's get down to business.

    Unvote: twinArmageddons
    Vote: Soulmaster


    You've expressed a desire to impede what you admit is optimal Town play. This is anti-Town behavior and warrants a lynch if said behavior does not change.

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  11. #41
    Painting the night sky... Neon Borealis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Sorry for replying late MM.

    I think Phoenicks reasons for starting the bandwagon are legitimate. And I agree with Master Mew's argument, There is no time to loose.

    Now, Soulmaster seems like pushing ties all over. In a game where scumhunting is everything, he is the odd one out. However, I'm refraining from voting just yet.

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  12. #42
    カジカ Zima's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    @Master Mew;

    Hello. :)

    In a small game like this, I don't think it would be wise to lynch anyone just yet, so I will Vote: No Lynch​.

  13. #43
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    @Zima; Please re-read this post, with particular attention to the section labelled "Setup Analysis."

    Let me know what was wrong with my analysis, please.

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  14. #44
    カジカ Zima's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    Huh. In that case,

    ​Vote: Soulmaster

  15. #45
    The Real McCoy Master Simm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Race Mafia - Day 1 - Project Vanguard (Subs still welcome)

    I've read this.

    Unvote: twinArmageddons

    Vote: Soulmaster

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