Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap - Page 2

View Poll Results: What changes to the Hosting system would you suggest?

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  • Reinstate the Hosting Queue and Retain the Game Cap

    5 35.71%
  • Eliminate the Game Cap

    9 64.29%
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Thread: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

  1. #16
    Hyping over Steven Stone Kyriaki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum Achromatic View Post
    The thing is, there will be other users missing their chance to post their games just because they hadn't been online when I was.
    Without a queue and a cap, there is no missed chance. Anyone who is capable of running a game may so long as there isn't a queue.
    No wait wait... am I missing something??

    no queue & no cap = no game registration required = anyone can host their game without telling a mod = anyone on the site more frequently has a higher chance of spotting ended games earlier, and without the mods giving them the permit, they will post their games whenever they want, preventing less-frequent users from ever posting their games and therefore, making them wait until another game has ended. If luck is never on their side, they'll keep missing chances to host. There needs to be some restriction to prevent hostings monopolized by certain users who can be on the site more often than others.

    HOSTING MONOPOLY. That's what I'm most concerned with if we get rid of the queue and cap - THERE MUST be some sort of alternative to prevent that.

  2. #17
    Where the Shadows lie Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    @Spectrum Achromatic; If there's no cap, then nothing will stop less-frequent users from posting their games. Anyone can post a game at any time.

    @Neon Borealis; The queue was the mod-managed line we used to have, where a host can only post a game when specifically allowed. The average wait became 68 days, and if you missed your turn you generally had to wait longer.

    _____

    We had a no-cap, no-queue system from about August 2011 (when the old queue stopped being used) until about August 2012 (when the new queue was posted).

    Most of us played in that year (many people joined during it), and I don't think that any of our current fears were a problem then. If anything, because it was easier to host and join games, the War Room enjoyed a Golden Age of sorts.

    I'll freely admit that I'm still learning about the situation.

  3. #18
    remember Big Henry Mijzelffan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    So what if we keep the queue, but just raise the cap to like 8? It would make waiting times less and prevent most of the issues that arise with a removal of the cap.


    And as this was mentioned, I don't think extending sign-up time for people is a good idea. After a week or so not much more people will really sign up anyway, so unless the host actively goes asking people to play generally nothing will really change and it will only cause the queue to move slower.


  4. #19
    SHSL Gambler CrackFox's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    I don't think reinstating the queue is a good idea. First come, first serve basis seems to be working fine. Maybe you could have something like 4 spots that are in accordance with a waiting list and two spots that are free for the taking whenever. I just think the queue is unfair. You could have someone in front of you who has no intention of posting their game in any kind of a hurry, but you're stuck waiting for them to get it going so you can get yours going. People who post upcoming games often get sidetracked and distracted by their personal lives, and those that are ready to go with free time on their hands are stuck twiddling their thumbs.

    I don't know the ins and outs of the war room etiquette or politics, but from a host/players point of view, I say keep at least some spaces as first come, first serve.
    Whether the cap is extended or not, people aren't tripping over themselves to fill up the six spots so there's no real need, yet anyway.

    THE WAR ROOM
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  5. #20
    CAPS KidBeano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    [INDENT]Option A.) Reinstate the Hosting Queue and Retain the Game Cap (Currently No More than Six Games at Once, Though it May Increase Somewhat)


    I think one major problem here is the rate at which games are being created (not posted, created). Some people it seems will literally be working on their next game before their previous one is even halfway-through. This seems to happen usually for "series" games where it's easy to create a sequel. These games usually seem to be quite basic in their setup, maybe even sub-standard at times. People shouldn't be encouraged to churn games out like there's no tomorrow, but rather to actually try and bring something new and creative to the War Room. Mechanics like the Horcruxes/Hallows in the HP7 Mafia, or the voting in Super Effective Mafia. Not just "Bog-Standard Mafia 1" followed swiftly by "Bog-Standard Mafia 2".

    Also, don't remove the cap. Removing the cap basically means you're trusting people to keep the game amount balanced, so soon an "unwritten cap" will start to emerge and so it will just be pointless anyway.

    I object to the "68 days" statistic, that's kinda making a mountain out of a molehill really. 68 days is just over two months. I don't believe for a minute that there is any one person in the War Room who can't find other ways to entertain themselves for two months, than sitting in front of their computer begging the hours away.

    I'm also not sure where this "You can get stuck in the queue" nonsense came from. As far as I was aware, if the person at the front of the queue didn't want to post their game, then the second person got to post it, and so on. Pretty sure I didn't just make that up, but if I did, then that's how it should be run anyway methinks :3

    And least but not least, increasing the sign-up time wouldn't really help. As someone already said, if you don't get the required amount of people in 2 weeks, you're unlikely to get it in 3 or 4.
    MORE CAPS

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  6. #21
    Where the Shadows lie Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Mijzelffan View Post
    So what if we keep the queue, but just raise the cap to like 8? It would make waiting times less and prevent most of the issues that arise with a removal of the cap.
    I agree that a cap higher than supply is like no cap at all.

    Most of the issues with the cap are issues with the queue: When The War Room has a limited supply of game spots, any game that stalls or goes inactive delays other games. Every game has to pass the queue. Even a high cap will eventually force extra games to join the queue, incurring the disadvantages.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidBeano View Post
    I think one major problem here is the rate at which games are being created (not posted, created). Some people it seems will literally be working on their next game before their previous one is even halfway-through. This seems to happen usually for "series" games where it's easy to create a sequel. These games usually seem to be quite basic in their setup, maybe even sub-standard at times. People shouldn't be encouraged to churn games out like there's no tomorrow, but rather to actually try and bring something new and creative to the War Room. Mechanics like the Horcruxes/Hallows in the HP7 Mafia, or the voting in Super Effective Mafia. Not just "Bog-Standard Mafia 1" followed swiftly by "Bog-Standard Mafia 2".
    I'm not sure which games you're referring to here. Would you please be more specific about sub-standard games created when there was no queue?

    Also, don't remove the cap. Removing the cap basically means you're trusting people to keep the game amount balanced, so soon an "unwritten cap" will start to emerge and so it will just be pointless anyway.
    If there will be a cap regardless, why should we have a formal limit?

    I object to the "68 days" statistic, that's kinda making a mountain out of a molehill really. 68 days is just over two months. I don't believe for a minute that there is any one person in the War Room who can't find other ways to entertain themselves for two months, than sitting in front of their computer begging the hours away.
    Since I'm using that statistic, I think I should respond:

    I'm not saying that hosts can't wait 68 days. I'm saying that they shouldn't have to.

    I'm also not sure where this "You can get stuck in the queue" nonsense came from. As far as I was aware, if the person at the front of the queue didn't want to post their game, then the second person got to post it, and so on. Pretty sure I didn't just make that up, but if I did, then that's how it should be run anyway methinks :3
    I won't speak for Crackfox, but I think it's a fair point: you can also get stuck in the queue if you're busy and have to pass your turn.

  7. #22

    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    I had a huge post planned about why it should be reinstated, but after reading and thinking more about it, I've decided that I'm against it. Phoenicks' statement about "supply" made me think of it like the free market. Logically, the cap exists because if the war room has a lot more hosts than available players (higher supply than demand), then games will stagnate. However, in reality the free market should sort itself out. If there are, say, 10 games available to be signed up for, then people will sign up for the games that they think will be more fun and the others would make their way to the archive due to lack of sign ups. It's economics 101.

    In this case, the quality of games should increase, since people should know that they have to step it up in order to get people to sign up for their game.

    Things that break this system would be people pressuring other people to sign up for their game (which inevitably leads to inactivity whether there is a cap or not), and people spreading themselves too thin (signing up for like 10 games at once). However I think these are both problems that will always exist regardless of whether or not there is a cap.



    Also, I have another unrelated suggestion that some of us were discussing over a Skype game last night. That is, have a time limit on how long a game can stay on the Work in Progress list. I see that it has been cleaned up a bit (no games from 2011 on there or anything), but I think if a game has been on there for, say, three months, then the author should be messaged asking if they are still working on the game. If they say no, then it can be removed. Even if they say yes, then it can be removed if nothing has been done about it after a month and the author will have to re-apply.
    That's nice.

  8. #23
    remember Big Henry Mijzelffan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    then people will sign up for the games that they think will be more fun
    Aka games hosted by people who hosted plenty of times before, while first time hosters will be ignored. I've even experienced it myself on other forums, people won't join your game solely because they don't know you as well. At least with a cap people will be more likely to join if they want to play mafia and there aren't any other games regardless of who's hosting.


  9. #24

    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Mijzelffan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMissingno. View Post
    then people will sign up for the games that they think will be more fun
    Aka games hosted by people who hosted plenty of times before, while first time hosters will be ignored. I've even experienced it myself on other forums, people won't join your game solely because they don't know you as well. At least with a cap people will be more likely to join if they want to play mafia and there aren't any other games regardless of who's hosting.
    That's not entirely true. New hosts should just start with smaller games, like 8 players or so. That way it will be easier for them to fill up and if they do a good job then they will start to build a reputation. If an inexperienced host makes a game with like 30 people then it probably should die anyway because it would likely end in disaster.
    That's nice.

  10. #25
    SHSL Gambler CrackFox's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Is it confirmed that the current system isn't working? As far as i'm aware, there hasn't been any backlash since the rule change. The old saying 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it' springs to mind. If there's notable problems since the rule change, I haven't noticed them. I suspect the lack of activity recently is just a slow patch that would be happening no matter what the rules were and what games were running. I like my idea of having a set amount of slots in accordance with a queue and maybe one or two that are open for the taking, on a first come, first serve basis.

    I don't think it helps to have big games running alongside small ones. The small ones often get overlooked. Maybe introduce a cap for the larger games that run alongside eachother. The again, I wouldn't be in favor of this, it would leave quite a few people disgruntled. I'd say don't change anything yet. Give the new rules more of a chance to work.

  11. #26
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

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  12. #27
    underrated Eleven's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Okay. I can give another reason why the hosting queue should be reinstated from personal experiences. Right after a game ends, even if many people have been waiting to host, another person can accept sign-ups and begin hosting their game without having it on the list, even after said person had been waiting months for an opportunity to put their game up.

  13. #28
    Elite Sniper FinalArcadia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    But with the hosting queue, you'd still have to wait, and possibly be waiting even longer to put your game up.

    People may have been waiting to host a game for just as long, even if they didn't have it on the list. With many games recently being relatively small, it's not as though there won't be an open slot in a fairly timely manner, so it seems that wait times would actually be better without the hosting queue.

    However, I think a game cap is still good, but without the hosting queue. So basically, I believe that the current system is actually quite effective, after having seen it in action for a while now.

  14. #29
    Justice HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Zima View Post
    Okay. I can give another reason why the hosting queue should be reinstated from personal experiences. Right after a game ends, even if many people have been waiting to host, another person can accept sign-ups and begin hosting their game without having it on the list, even after said person had been waiting months for an opportunity to put their game up.
    That's more of a reason to eliminate the game cap than a reason to put back the hosting queue. With no game cap there will be no limits, and you can post your game whenever you want. The hosting queue should just make you wait even longer.

    If there won't be a hosting queue, I'd make it that there can only be a total of ten games posted. Six games running max, with the rest up for Sign-ups. First game to be filled up can then start. It would still take time, but I it would take way less.

  15. #30

    Default Re: Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Zima View Post
    Okay. I can give another reason why the hosting queue should be reinstated from personal experiences. Right after a game ends, even if many people have been waiting to host, another person can accept sign-ups and begin hosting their game without having it on the list, even after said person had been waiting months for an opportunity to put their game up.
    If there's no hosting queue or game cap then there's no reason someone should wait months to post their game. They can just post it whenever they want.
    That's nice.

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