Thread: OTP MAFIA - MAFIA VICTORY [06/01/13]

Originally Posted by Winter Enchantress

Well, I don't want to reveal too much on day one. I don't want killed. xD

but making empty, content-less posts is so much better for the town

Originally Posted by twinArmageddons

Originally Posted by Winter Enchantress

Well, I don't want to reveal too much on day one. I don't want killed. xD

but making empty, content-less posts is so much better for the town

Not everyone likes voting another, and KidBeano is one of those, which he's made perfectly clear -_-

Also day one is usually just pure joke votes until someone slips up, which is rare

EDIT: This was supposed to be in reply to that mention -_-;

Anyways you asked me if I wanted a lynch before. I like them for information but I don't want to mislynch if possible. You're attacking several players for not posting something useful, yet are you not doing the same?

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

Originally Posted by twinArmageddons

Originally Posted by Winter Enchantress

Well, I don't want to reveal too much on day one. I don't want killed. xD

but making empty, content-less posts is so much better for the town

Not everyone likes voting another, and KidBeano is one of those, which he's made perfectly clear -_-

Also day one is usually just pure joke votes until someone slips up, which is rare

It doesn't need to be like that. You can get the game going also otherwise than just posting jokes or comments that only remotely relate to the game. Therefore I'm going to put a mild FoS on Winter Enchantress and Aestivate.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

Anyways you asked me if I wanted a lynch before. I like them for information but I don't want to mislynch if possible. You're attacking several players for not posting something useful, yet are you not doing the same?

Okay I get that people might ship me for defending him or assume that I'm his partner but whatever; this is a pet peeve of mine.

Do not attack the active players for being active. Being active, especially on Day 1, is pro-town. It doesn't mean anything about who's scum and who's not but: for Pluto's sake, if you want to read that as a scummy activity, do it on Day 2.

You asking that question is a (poor) attempt to turn twinArmageddon's attack back on him. It won't work because in order to use that attack, you have to accept the validity of his premise in the first place. Which is good(!), because his premise is: Let's do something besides randomly vote Day 1.

On that note I'm done with this discussion because it is (virtually) impossible to have a productive discussion about whether we can have a productive discussion. Let's move on and do something I've always wanted to do:

Unvote: twinArmageddons
Vote: Mijzelffan

Policy Lynch.

EDIT: Someone told me that I got his apostrophe's wrong. Not fixing them though.

EDIT 2: I got the apostrophe wrong in my edit.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

Not everyone likes voting another, and KidBeano is one of those, which he's made perfectly clear -_-

i've never played with him before. you're supposing i have a massive knowledge of how he plays when i don't.
either way it's a bad strategy

@Mr. Fahrenheit; it can but the majority of time for bmg its joke votes. Really only during the small games have I seen them start off serious
@Phoenicks; I was just pointing out that he's being a hypocrit being he posted posts useless to the town as well. Also being active day on isn't town. Mafia could easily be just as active.

@twinArmageddons; I actually think this is my first mafia game with you, I'm not sure who you've played with. I'm mainly pointing it out before the usual lynch vs no lynch discussion and its best to drop it before it turns into one like Phoenicks mentioned.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@Mr. Fahrenheit; it can but the majority of time for bmg its joke votes. Really only during the small games have I seen them start off serious.

Honestly, I don't really see how the size of the game is relevant to whether a game has a serious start or not. Actually although this game has 24 players every role is shared with 2 people so in that aspect we have a 13-player game which falls in the small game category. So if we go with that "only small games have a serious beginning" premise we have a reason to start this game with serious playing. But this is everything I will say about this subject, let's continue on.

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

Do not attack the active players for being active. Being active, especially on Day 1, is pro-town. It doesn't mean anything about who's scum and who's not but: for Pluto's sake, if you want to read that as a scummy activity, do it on Day 2.

You asking that question is a (poor) attempt to turn twinArmageddon's attack back on him. It won't work because in order to use that attack, you have to accept the validity of his premise in the first place. Which is good(!), because his premise is: Let's do something besides randomly vote Day 1.

Actually you have here quite a valid reason to vote for midorikawa. But you decided to vote someone else with not-so-good reasoning. Why?

@Mr. Fahrenheit; So if attacking active players=scum then twinArmegeddons is also scum by your logic. Though also by yours and Phoenicks logic I'm town for being active. You are contradicting him while saying you agree with him, and also being hypocritical.

EDIT:I never said the serious start always happens in small games. It's just where I've usually seen it. And on another note, while we may be in pairs, there are still 24 people, which while we're all lovers and that equals 12 roles total, each person is different with their own play style.

I always vote No Lynch on Day 1, unless there is a strong reason not to (i.e. suspected slip, someone being incredibly anti-town/suspicious). However, regardless of that fact, mind if you explained what exactly about it worried you? You said I was scummy for it but didn't say why, but anyone and their dog can do that.

Midorikawa has a point with twin's postings. Yes, I understand he's saying "You should do something useful", but that in itself is not useful. If he wanted to do something useful, he'd start being a bit more aggressive. At the moment, yes, he is posting without saying an awful lot, exactly what he criticised Winter for.

Activity shouldn't be a strong indicator of alignment, whatever the day is. It has its uses, but it shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all.

On the issue of joke/pointless statements, Aestivate I can see. Winter, not so much. Although I am confused as to why she 'doesn't want to give much away', she's not been avoiding anything and not been posting in a jokey way.

As it stands, there is no strong reason for anyone to be voted at the moment, so my vote stays.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@Mr. Fahrenheit; So if attacking active players=scum then twinArmegeddons is also scum by your logic. Though also by yours and Phoenicks logic I'm town for being active. You are contradicting him while saying you agree with him, and also being hypocritical.

EDIT:I never said the serious start always happens in small games. It's just where I've usually seen it. And on another note, while we may be in pairs, there are still 24 people, which while we're all lovers and that equals 12 roles total, each person is different with their own play style.

I never said anything about activity being any indication of the alignment. It isn't. Also questioning votes that had no reasoning does not equal with attacking a player (Neither does questioning a vote that has reasoning if you don't agree with the reasoning).

EDIT: And what comes to TwinArmagennons and Winter Enchantress, I don't think that questioning about posting of postings sake is attacking either.

@Mr. Fahrenheit; Not directly, but you said Phoenicks had a good reason to vote me, and that reason is because I was calling out twinArmageddons on his hypocrisy. Phoenicks said not to attack active players as being active on day one is town tell. I was talking about you agreeing with him, and brought up his logic.That's why I said it was yours and Phoenicks logic.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

I always vote No Lynch on Day 1, unless there is a strong reason not to (i.e. suspected slip, someone being incredibly anti-town/suspicious). However, regardless of that fact, mind if you explained what exactly about it worried you? You said I was scummy for it but didn't say why, but anyone and their dog can do that.

I never explicitly said it was scummy, I just said it was bad play. If you always do the same action in the same circumstances, that's terrible strategy. You don't strike me as mafia just yet

Midorikawa has a point with twin's postings. Yes, I understand he's saying "You should do something useful", but that in itself is not useful. If he wanted to do something useful, he'd start being a bit more aggressive. At the moment, yes, he is posting without saying an awful lot, exactly what he criticised Winter for.

my point was not "you should do something useful"
it was "winter enchantress, in your response to phoenicks, you gave a fluffy non-answer that avoided the question entirely. you didn't contribute to suggesting any direction to the town"
honestly if you can extract any useful information from winter enchantress's posts other than "avoids questions when queried" then i'm all ears

Activity shouldn't be a strong indicator of alignment, whatever the day is. It has its uses, but it shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all.

honestly, if you have a mislynch, you can't really go wrong with voting inactives. nothing will ruin a town's chances like an inactive town. removing that highly increases the town's chances of winning.

On the issue of joke/pointless statements, Aestivate I can see. Winter, not so much. Although I am confused as to why she 'doesn't want to give much away', she's not been avoiding anything and not been posting in a jokey way.

her answer is literally "i have a vote and my vote can help lynch mafia"
that means nothing and is an attempt to avoid the question

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

twinArmageddons; I actually think this is my first mafia game with you, I'm not sure who you've played with. I'm mainly pointing it out before the usual lynch vs no lynch discussion and its best to drop it before it turns into one like Phoenicks mentioned.

yes because never questioning the meta is the best way to play games
if there is a better way for the mafia to win than having a stagnant town playing off meta
let me know
(sidenote: the metagame is entirely bullshit)

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@Mr. Fahrenheit; Not directly, but you said Phoenicks had a good reason to vote me, and that reason is because I was calling out twinArmageddons on his hypocrisy. Phoenicks said not to attack active players as being active on day one is town tell. I was talking about you agreeing with him, and brought up his logic.That's why I said it was yours and Phoenicks logic.

it's amusing, because to say that i am being hypocritical, you have to admit that my initial argument is true
in which case i'm not being hypocritical, and then you have no quarrel with me

@twinArmageddons; META? That doesn't exist to me.Also calling someone out on something that's unusual for them can be wrong. In the smash bros mafia the user Sputnik voted No lynch day one, when in my experience with her, she usually random votes someone. I called her out on it and it ended up into a discussion that got her lynched. She was town. Also calling you a hypocrit doesn't mean I agree with you at all. It means that you're doing exactly what you were telling others they shouldn't do. I called Phoenicks and Mr. Fahrenheit hypocrits too. You all keep saying things or agreeing with another, but then you go and do it yourself or contradict yourselves.

I prefer to look at the voting of day one after we get some information especially after my mistake in the smash bros mafia. For example in the All Stars mafia I used day one votes as evidence, as the mafia literally voted each other day one. But pointing out votes on day one, especially if there is any random voting, doesn't do good without more info.

UNVOTE: Phoenicks
VOTE: No Lynch

Right now only a few of use have posted at all, and no one really seems mafia to me right now.

Also on the note of inactives, I agree they can hurt the town, though it also depends on their level of inactivity, and if it's for the whole game, or only for a little due to something.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@Phoenicks; I was just pointing out that he's being a hypocrit being he posted posts useless to the town as well. Also being active day on isn't town. Mafia could easily be just as active.

Then you didn't understand me. In order to call twinArmageddons a hypocrite, you have to attack him for not contributing to the thread -- which implicitly accepts the validity of attacking players for not contributing in the first place. And, if you accept that this is a valid attack, then you accept that twinArmageddons has contributed something to the thread.

I'm dropping the discussion because: I'm attacking you for not contributing by attacking him for not contributing by attacking Winter Enchantress for not contributing.

Originally Posted by Mr. Fahrenheit

Originally Posted by Phoenicks

Do not attack the active players for being active. Being active, especially on Day 1, is pro-town. It doesn't mean anything about who's scum and who's not but: for Pluto's sake, if you want to read that as a scummy activity, do it on Day 2.

You asking that question is a (poor) attempt to turn twinArmageddon's attack back on him. It won't work because in order to use that attack, you have to accept the validity of his premise in the first place. Which is good(!), because his premise is: Let's do something besides randomly vote Day 1.

Actually you have here quite a valid reason to vote for midorikawa. But you decided to vote someone else with not-so-good reasoning. Why?

Because voting isn't always about good reasoning.

In this case I'm leaning town on Midorikawa almost because I disagree with her logic. (There are other things to note, like how she likes every other post regardless of whether it's good for her or bad for her.) If I thought that there was a high chance of her being scum then I would lynch her. If I didn't, then I would do what I'm doing -- sit and draw her out some more.

I've always preferred to vote random inactive players: They don't contribute to the discussion at all, and have the blank chance of being scum. (If we assume 6 mafiosi (3 mafia roles) out of 26 players than the blank chance is 23%.) Being inactive may or may not be scumtelling/towntelling. However, being inactive is anti-town (there's a difference between towntelling and being pro-town).

Voting someone for the reason that they're inactive may also inspire them to become active. On Day 1, it's a much healthier policy than randomly voting or voting for active players.

Originally Posted by KidBeano

I always vote No Lynch on Day 1, unless there is a strong reason not to (i.e. suspected slip, someone being incredibly anti-town/suspicious).

That was a description of how you vote No Lynch on Day 1 and not an explanation of why.

Activity shouldn't be a strong indicator of alignment, whatever the day is. It has its uses, but it shouldn't be the be-all-and-end-all.

I don't think that anyone was saying that activity was a strong indicator of alignment.

As it stands, there is no strong reason for anyone to be voted at the moment, so my vote stays.

No strong reason to vote for a lynch is not a strong reason to vote for a no lynch.

Originally Posted by Midorikawa

@Mr. Fahrenheit; Not directly, but you said Phoenicks had a good reason to vote me, and that reason is because I was calling out twinArmageddons on his hypocrisy. Phoenicks said not to attack active players as being active on day one is town tell. I was talking about you agreeing with him, and brought up his logic.That's why I said it was yours and Phoenicks logic.

That's not what I said or meant. Being active, without any other context, is a nulltell. Being active, without any other context, is pro-town.

Hence why I'm voting for someone who is currently inactive but may be prodded to show up.

Okay so after forgetting to subscribe to the thread and them remembering and after reading trough the thread, I don't feel like anyone is worth voting for yet.